Perma-Banned, I WAS TALKING SHIT WITH MY FRIEND

CHAMPlONSHlP ZED·Oct 5, 2016·3 votes·6,246 views

So I was just recently perma-banned on my account (that I've had for around 3 1/2 - 4 years btw). I was banned for being toxic in a game when I was actually just joking around with a friend of mine that I know irl. I have had toxic history but I'm reformed, and I'm asking you (riot) to look back at that game history and see for yourself that it was indeed harmless banter rather than toxicity. I would even be fine with permanent mute rather than taking 3 1/2 years and $400+ away from me. I know I'm not the most veteran player out there but I've dedicated a lot of my time to League of Legends. So please riot, please take look at the logs and tell me I'm wrong. I don't understand how when I'm being toxic towards myself (calling myself garbage) and my friend is considered a ban-able offense, but even at the end of the logs where I was being SO "toxic" I had been telling the enemy teams Orianna that she was doing really good, boosting her morale. I plan on sending a ticket to riot after this, but I figured it might create a good discussion. Someone let me know if you've experienced the same thing.

50 Comments

RiotRiot TantramOct 5, 201618 votes

You were friends with one player you were harassing, but not all of the others. You were attacking everyone in game, and in all-chat.

You were extremely verbally abusive and using hate speech.

I plan on sending a ticket to riot after this, but I figured it might create a good discussion.

If you want to have a good discussion, you should post the chat logs which were provided.

Michael SykesOct 5, 20165 votes

but if someone only harasses his friend, would that be punishable? is an interesting topic in my opinion

eldurisOct 5, 20167 votes

Even if you're just talking shit with a friend back and forth, other people in the game may not be in on it. This can come across as negative behavior and people might find it unacceptable. They're free to use the report system and it is possible for you to be punished in that scenario.

The only way I imagine this being ok is by playing in a full custom game with all players being ok with that behavior. Even then, you might say something that someone else doesn't find appropriate and they could report you.

There was one case where a person only talked bad about themselves and was punished by the instant feedback system. Their ban was overturned, but the Rioters did mention to them that this kind of behavior is easy to misinterpret. Regardless, you are creating a negative experience for the other players in the game. I'd advise, if you want to avoid punishment, don't engage in negative behavior, regardless who the target is.

Michael SykesOct 5, 20161 votes

okay, especially the custom game thing is interesting. So people can be banned for being toxic in custom games? The reason I was interested in this post was that friends did this to me in the team-chat, sometimes even in the allchat. They wrote toxic things and motivated other random guys to be toxic against me too. It was not okay.

ModPrandineOct 6, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Michael Sykes,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8GRfYpnW,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-05T20:00:56.201+0000)

okay, especially the custom game thing is interesting. So people can be banned for being toxic in custom games? The reason I was interested in this post was that friends did this to me in the team-chat, sometimes even in the allchat. They wrote toxic things and motivated other random guys to be toxic against me too. It was not okay.

Yes you can indeed be punished for negative behavior in custom games since the rules apply to all game modes and not just match-made ones. Some people seem to think that the rules don't apply in customs when in fact they do. Back when the Tribunal was up I saw a few cases where people had games of Hide&Seek as one of the games that they were reported in, and if memory serves all of them were punish worthy as well.

Michael SykesOct 6, 20161 votes

you obviously know a lot about this topic D: thank you!

CHAMPlONSHlP ZEDOct 6, 20162 votes

Okay, I wish I would have known that I could be punished even if I was joking with a friend...

ModPrandineOct 6, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=CHAMPlONSHlP ZED,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8GRfYpnW,comment-id=0002000000000001,timestamp=2016-10-06T00:42:42.810+0000)

Okay, I wish I would have known that I could be punished even if I was joking with a friend...

Okay, you're not getting this. What you and your friend find funny other random people may not find funny. If you know that the randoms on your team aren't pleased and have asked you to stop then stop. If you don't or won't then the problem lies with you, not them. If you want to joke around with friends then do it in a full pre-made or a private custom game. From Ulanopo's Knowledge Base:

"I should not have been banned for bantering with my friends."

Just as Riot filters out numbers in many cases, they have a program that detects and removes banter between friends. (source (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=27042870#post27042870))

This is probably news to most people, but friendly banter is hidden from Tribunal in most cases... so you never see it in a case. This is partially why sometimes in a case file, it might look like there is missing chat or context.

BLACK REALM GODOct 6, 20161 votes

O.o omg a blue name-tag. what does it mean?!?!

double rainbow across the sky.

DrCyanideOct 6, 20161 votes

Arbiter. Essentially a Volunteer with a few more resources available/on hand to help players.

ModPrandineOct 6, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLACK REALM GOD,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8GRfYpnW,comment-id=0002000000000002,timestamp=2016-10-06T01:20:18.993+0000)

O.o omg a blue name-tag. what does it mean?!?!

double rainbow across the sky.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/opVBd7rZ-introducing-the-arbiters

BLACK REALM GODOct 6, 20161 votes

ohhhh. mkay. they're the help desk. gotcha. good job then mr blue.

Man In SkyOct 5, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8GRfYpnW,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-10-05T19:08:57.219+0000)

You were friends with one player you were harassing, but not all of the others. You were attacking everyone in game, and in all-chat.

You were extremely verbally abusive and using hate speech.

If you want to have a good discussion, you should post the chat logs which were provided.

REKT!! I'm glad Riot employees shut down these kind of posts, "I'm innocent!" and bam, the OP goes away.

CHAMPlONSHlP ZEDOct 6, 20161 votes

I never claimed to be innocent. I said in chat that I've had a toxic past. But I've worked really hard to overcome that. The fact that I was banned for trash talking my friend when the only two people who probably reported me were the ones who lost lane to myself and our teams Jinx. I love how you assume that I deserve the ban when I, and my friend who I told I was banned both agree that I don't. I like to enjoy my games, and a little trash talking never hurt anybody. Especially when the ones who I "/all ?" to were the ones who were calling me retarded and using other hate speech, but did I let it bother me? No, because you get assholes in every game. Now I understand where Dunkey was coming from. The Riot system is a joke if they ban me based off of reports who call people retarded in the same game.

ModPrandineOct 6, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=CHAMPlONSHlP ZED,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8GRfYpnW,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2016-10-06T00:54:14.309+0000)

I never claimed to be innocent. I said in chat that I've had a toxic past. But I've worked really hard to overcome that. The fact that I was banned for trash talking my friend when the only two people who probably reported me were the ones who lost lane to myself and our teams Jinx. I love how you assume that I deserve the ban when I, and my friend who I told I was banned both agree that I don't. I like to enjoy my games, and a little trash talking never hurt anybody. Especially when the ones who I "/all ?" to were the ones who were calling me retarded and using other hate speech, but did I let it bother me? No, because you get assholes in every game. Now I understand where Dunkey was coming from. The Riot system is a joke if they ban me based off of reports who call people retarded in the same game.

Since you brought up Dunkey here is Lyte's official response to it back he still worked at Riot Games:

What do you think about vgdunkey's ban?

It's really unfortunate. Many Rioters love Dunkey's content, and I've unloaded my share of "Not even close babyyyyy" jokes around the office; however, we really can't show favoritism to someone just because they are a pro or a known content creator. This isn't really a debate about whether trashtalking is OK or not OK in games; we've talked a lot in the past about how we're OK with players bantering with their friends but you should be careful when interacting with strangers who may not understand your intentions--especially if you're using hate speech or slurs. We have a zero tolerance policy against hate speech, racism, homophobia, and sexism and that policy stands whether you're a random player, a pro player, or a Youtube celebrity.

This also really wasn't a case about intentional feeders and whether it's OK to be toxic towards other toxic players--there wasn't even a Malphite in the game that got him banned and either way, retaliation just isn't OK because it makes the experience worse for everyone else in the game.

We know that players have been asking us to be more aggressive against intentional feeders for awhile, and it has taken us a bit longer than we'd like. We do consider gameplay toxicity just as serious as verbal toxicity, and are launching a new Intentional Feeder Detection system in 5.18 that can ban feeders within 15 minutes of matches. We're starting with conservative settings to make sure the system would not ban players for having the rare bad game, even if it was a 0-10 type of bad game but this is a great first step to aggressively tackling intentional feeders.

At the end of the day, this incident sucks for everyone. We respect that Dunkey hasn't posted his Reform Card, and I'm not going to post it either. Best wishes to him in the future.

CHAMPlONSHlP ZEDOct 6, 20161 votes

It's not what got him banned that I'm getting at. It's his idea that one extremely toxic person isn't getting banned while he reports someone that finally got fed up with him and fired back. Obviously they should both be punished. But in my case I was cracking jokes with a friend, and I /all ?'d a bot lane who had been using hate speech towards me the entire game? I don't see how I'm the one to be punished, let alone given a lifetime ban on an account that has lasted since I started league my freshman year of high school. I'm a freshman in college now btw.

ModPrandineOct 6, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=CHAMPlONSHlP ZED,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8GRfYpnW,comment-id=00020001000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-06T01:08:33.945+0000)

It's not what got him banned that I'm getting at. It's his idea that one extremely toxic person isn't getting banned while he reports someone that finally got fed up with him and fired back. Obviously they should both be punished. But in my case I was cracking jokes with a friend, and I /all ?'d a bot lane who had been using hate speech towards me the entire game? I don't see how I'm the one to be punished, let alone given a lifetime ban on an account that has lasted since I started league my freshman year of high school. I'm a freshman in college now btw.

Someone else acting up doesn't mean that your own poor behavior gets a free pass. If you reported them and they have a history of acting up like that then they will be punished. From Understanding the Tribunal:

4) That player in my game was far worse than me. Why am I banned??? a) I'll keep this one simple: retaliation isn't OK. Reacting to a toxic player by being toxic just incites that player to be even worse--it also ruins the game for up to 8 other players. It is far, far worse to watch two people yelling at each other all game than it is to watch 1 player ranting into blank space. Almost everyone in the game can find someone out there that behaves worse than they do--but so what? Finding someone worse doesn't justify your behavior or justify retaliation. We expect more out of our players. What players often don't realize is... those other players in your game that you thought were worse? Nearly 100% of the time, those players were banned even before you were. If someone is being toxic, just report them and move on. If you retaliate, both of you will be banned. It's really that simple.

As for you, you admit that you have a history of consistently behaving poorly in-game, and this most recent game of yours was just the straw that broke the camels back in your particular case. Because punishments follow a 4-step program (10-game chat restriction, 25-game CR, 2-week ban, permanent ban), the fact that you got a permaban means that you were already on the 2-week ban stage, got punished again and received the next punishment step in line, which in this case was a permanent ban.

Also, the reason as to why permamutes aren't a thing is because Riot tried that before with never ending chat restrictions and found out that most people with these would just switch to gameplay trolling instead. Because of this, permamutes don't happen anymore.

CHAMPlONSHlP ZEDOct 6, 20161 votes

Well, sorry to say it, but I think that's bullshit. I have gotten two 2-week bans now, and the first one I was banned from had been reports from over a year before hand. I sent a ticket for it to get overturned and it was denied for god knows what reason. So if that is part of the reason for me getting perma-banned then that brings up an even bigger issue in riots tribunal system. I didn't deserve the 2-week ban that I got stuck with, but I took it because I didn't want my 2-week ban to turn into a perma-ban. How can someone be reported for something that happened over a year previously? Keep in mind i'm not trying to argue with you, I'm simply trying to understand why i'm being perma banned when I seriously do not have any doubt in my mind that I don't deserve it. I love league, and Ive dedicated so much time, and money into it. I just hate the fact that it's all been taken from me over something so petty. Keep in mind I've been awarded friendly, teamwork, AND Honorable opponent ribbons many times over since then. And while I don't deny my toxic past, I've done my time with mutes and 2-week bans WAY AFTER I was actually toxic. and I don't believe I should be paying for it once again now.

ModPrandineOct 6, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=CHAMPlONSHlP ZED,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8GRfYpnW,comment-id=0002000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-06T02:15:32.235+0000)

Well, sorry to say it, but I think that's bullshit. I have gotten two 2-week bans now, and the first one I was banned from had been reports from over a year before hand. I sent a ticket for it to get overturned and it was denied for god knows what reason. So if that is part of the reason for me getting perma-banned then that brings up an even bigger issue in riots tribunal system. I didn't deserve the 2-week ban that I got stuck with, but I took it because I didn't want my 2-week ban to turn into a perma-ban. How can someone be reported for something that happened over a year previously? Keep in mind i'm not trying to argue with you, I'm simply trying to understand why i'm being perma banned when I seriously do not have any doubt in my mind that I don't deserve it. I love league, and Ive dedicated so much time, and money into it. I just hate the fact that it's all been taken from me over something so petty. Keep in mind I've been awarded friendly, teamwork, AND Honorable opponent ribbons many times over since then. And while I don't deny my toxic past, I've done my time with mutes and 2-week bans WAY AFTER I was actually toxic. and I don't believe I should be paying for it once again now.

The Tribunal has been down for a couple of years now, but allot of the posts in the Tribunal FAQ and Understanding the Tribunal still apply today. As for your question, while it definitely is possible to drop down the punishment tiers with consistently good (read: neutral or positive) behavior, extremely negative behavior can cause one to skip over the chat restrictions and straight into a 2-week ban or a permaban. From the Instant Feedback System FAQ:

PUNISHMENTS GENERALLY FOLLOW A BASIC ESCALATION PATH:

First Offense: 10 Game Chat Restriction

Second Offense: 25 Game Chat Restriction
Third Offense: Two Week Suspension
Fourth Offense: Permanent Suspension

However, it is possible to skip to a Two Week or Permanent suspension based on the severity of the behavior in the game. Excessive negative behavior can result in a Two-Week or Permanent suspension at any time without having a chat restriction on the account.

BUT WHAT IF I REFORM? IS IT POSSIBLE TO GO DOWN THE ESCALATION PATH? Yes! Players who show consistent reform or show positive behavior in their games will help heal their accounts reputation.

WHY DID I SKIP RESTRICTIONS? We have a zero-tolerance policy for extreme negative behavior as well as extremely offensive language and remarks made in game towards other players. Since it is a severe disregard for the Summoner’s Code this sort of behavior can result in skipping to a Two week or Permanent suspension. Suspensions of this degree based on negative behavior will not likely be reduced or removed.

If you want more information then I would suggest reading the Support articles on behavior and if need be file a Support Ticket asking about it.

Dominick DestineOct 5, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8GRfYpnW,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-10-05T19:08:57.219+0000)

you should post the chat logs which were provided.

This.

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

BlindApplesOct 5, 20163 votes

F#ck you Riot, you're bunch of idiots :)

CHAMPlONSHlP ZEDOct 6, 20162 votes

I was harassing all of the others? I disagree. I was actually called "retarded" among various other insulting things. And does that mean they should be banned too? I think so. I was trying to be very nice, maybe not polite but I was just enjoying the game as soo many other league players do. I was even encouraging the enemy teams Orianna, as I've said. Or did you miss that part? There only seemed to be two triggered people in that game, and those were the bot lane that the jinx and I crushed. They were the ones calling me "retarded" and "stupid asf"...

Hero To VillainOct 6, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8GRfYpnW,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-10-05T19:08:57.219+0000)

You were friends with one player you were harassing, but not all of the others. You were attacking everyone in game, and in all-chat.

You were extremely verbally abusive and using hate speech.

If you want to have a good discussion, you should post the chat logs which were provided.

Is there a way I can talk to YOU privately?

CHAMPlONSHlP ZEDOct 6, 20161 votes

I too, would like to talk to a riot employee as well.

Reket DeAlkOct 6, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=CHAMPlONSHlP ZED,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8GRfYpnW,comment-id=000200050000,timestamp=2016-10-06T02:20:28.501+0000)

I too, would like to talk to a riot employee as well.

A Riot employee already replied to you.

He told you your ban was deserved.

CHAMPlONSHlP ZEDOct 6, 20161 votes

He also said that I had been harassing "all of the others" when in fact there had only been two Id had conflict with, and it was them who had been using hate speech towards me...

Reket DeAlkOct 6, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=CHAMPlONSHlP ZED,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8GRfYpnW,comment-id=00020005000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-06T04:15:17.598+0000)

He also said that I had been harassing "all of the others" when in fact there had only been two Id had conflict with, and it was them who had been using hate speech towards me...

And?

Your ban was still deserved.

Mig89Oct 6, 20161 votes

post the chat logs

BeatzBoyFTWOct 6, 20161 votes

Post your chat logs, then talk.

Could not careOct 5, 20165 votes

-Mommy, why is that guy yelling at that woman? -Ignore it sweetie, she's his wife.

Makes sense, no?

CHAMPlONSHlP ZEDOct 6, 20161 votes

Agree completely, thanks friend.

DrCyanideOct 5, 20164 votes

Why weren't you using Voice chat or PM's for toxic banter? Saying it openly in the full team chat was just careless and stupid.

CHAMPlONSHlP ZEDOct 6, 20161 votes

I don't disagree. I said something along the lines of "Watch out for this Wu (My friend), hes absolute trash." I guess that's my fault, but is that a ban-able offense? Especially when he said "Lol thats my friend" right after? I was honestly just trying to be friendly that game, I don't know how it has even come to this.

SmokedAlmondsOct 5, 20164 votes

The target of w/e you are saying isn't particularly important. What matters is who can read it.

CHAMPlONSHlP ZEDOct 6, 20161 votes

I disagree, but even if you're right. Do I deserve a perma ban on an account that I've had since I started playing League and dumped countless dollars into? If I really was in the .006% of league summoners toxic enough to be perma banned, don't you think it would have happened years ago? Keep in mind I've also had the ribbon for friendly, teamwork, and honorable opponent ribbon a number of times. How can I be in both of the extremes? Riddle me that RITO.

SmokedAlmondsOct 6, 20162 votes

There aren't really a lot of specifics here about what you did so it is hard to really answer that, but if you used hate speech then I don't really see an issue with a permanent ban.

Just because someone was once an upstanding member of the community doesn't mean they always will be.

MagicFlyingLlamaOct 5, 20163 votes

No chat logs, no shits can be given.

Also, i am almost amazed a rioter actually spend a few seconds of their life to reply to one of these threads.

Mig89Oct 6, 20161 votes

tantram does this all the time. Its very entertaining

Man In SkyOct 5, 20163 votes

I also like how people mention how much money they dump on their account as if that even matters.

CHAMPlONSHlP ZEDOct 6, 20161 votes

I said that because I wanted to show how much I cared about that account and league of legends. Obviously it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.. Imagine getting your league account ripped away from you because people couldn't handle friendly banter with your friend.

WonderlandsOct 5, 20163 votes

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/lalaloopsyland/images/b/b8/Rekt.jpg

CHAMPlONSHlP ZEDOct 6, 2016

Feels bad. Riot must care about it's dedicated summoners this much Tyrannosaurus arms fully extended... :'(

WonderlandsOct 6, 20162 votes

You read that he was being toxic to everyone and not just his friend right?

Nik NikersonOct 6, 20161 votes

That's the OP you're talking to. He is "he".

CHAMPlONSHlP ZEDOct 6, 20161 votes

I wasn't being toxic to everyone! I've repeatedly told you, I was actually being encouraging and supportive to the enemy orianna, and everyone else I didn't even talk to. I had only talked to the enemy bot lane, who were practically spamming insults towards me FIRST, and my friend, who I have admitted I was talking trash to but I didn't mean for it to be harmless and he knew that. I already apologized for saying it in the chat, I have already admitted to it being a stupid mistake. I hate how this is turned on me like I'm the bad guy. When Riot Tantram said I was harrassing "all of the others" I honestly don't know wtf he is talking about. You know what, how do I post all of the logs? You guys can see for yourselves.

Mig89Oct 6, 20161 votes

post the chat logs and itll tell us everything we need to know. Dont continue posting that you are innocent without proof. This is the PB&M boards. guilty until you prove your innocence XD