Riot, it was banter!

Twiggers·Feb 8, 2017·29 votes·15,826 views

https://images.discordapp.net/.eJwNwdsNwyAMAMBdGAAToDFkim5QuQSRSOEh7HxV3b29-6h7XmpTh8jgDWA_OfW5a5Y-qWRdei9XpnGyTr0CiVA6am7CYK31xi9-DTE6a4JzYDHE4P9wDcsD0SA886z0elPToxX1_QFLliNh.l21AISY2VS59GzD4qEdEWNk0tXc?width=765&height=429

So we just played a 5 man game against another 5 man, which had one played we all knew in real life: King Man Ultra. We engaged in some "friendly" banter (was kinda over the top tbh) and some of us might have said offensive words. We jokingly reported him after the game so he gets a chat restriction, because we are friends like that lol. What surprised us after the game was that he actually got permabanned on his account. Now this wasn't the 10th time he had been suspended, it was actually the first time since season 4 where he got suspended for leaving too many games.

We feel really bad right now because he had played a ton of games on that account, and really does not deserve the ban since it was just friends talking shit to each other, which happens in all games. You can contact every single member of both teams to make sure that we knew him, which you guys probably have all the usernames in the game logs. Here's the link: http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2419734871/28398878?tab=overview

Thank you for your help

170 Comments

RiotRiot TantramFeb 9, 201743 votes

Riot, it was banter!

It was ~~locker room talk~~ hate speech. We have a zero tolerance policy towards hate speech.

We feel really bad right now

Each player is responsible for their own behavior. You are not responsible for this player's punishment.

Tell you what ...

If every single person in this game who reported posts here in the next 3 days, rescinding their report, I'll see what I can do about getting it reduced to a 14 day ban.

But, be aware that hate speech is something we take very seriously. The only reason I am giving this offer is because they weren't reported by their teammates (5-man premade), they have no prior penalty history, and the enemy (5-man premade) team is posting here on their behalf.

HeartseekerVarusFeb 9, 201712 votes

This is so gracious and merciful that I'm a little bit in awe, tbh.

@OP - get on those report-filers so we can see a nice resolution to this. And then maybe make sure your pal backs away from slurs in future games, 5man v 5man or no.

IxlinFeb 9, 20174 votes

{quoted}

This is so gracious and merciful that I'm a little bit in awe, tbh.

@OP - get on those report-filers so we can see a nice resolution to this. And then maybe make sure your pal backs away from slurs in future games, 5man v 5man or no.

Logged in just to agree. But now the question is, is Tantram just being generous, or does she know there's no way some of those people are going to rescind their reports?

So curious.

ModPeriscopeFeb 9, 20173 votes

Tantram's a she?

RiotRiot TantramFeb 9, 201725 votes

He. But, who am I do discourage your imagination?

KeevalroyFeb 9, 20178 votes

Tantram confirmed best girl?

ModAcademy KaynFeb 9, 20178 votes

Best Gril*

midnight oil24Feb 9, 20172 votes

That's just the best answer ever.

Photos of GhostsFeb 9, 20177 votes

RULE 63 SELFCEST FANFIC INCOMING

biomasterFeb 9, 20172 votes

i just want to say ofc i understand why the zero tolerance is in place but doesn't it fly in the face of why the system exists? i though riot wanted to try and rehabilitate people before going for the ban hammer.

I think perms should be given more easily for hate speech but maybe reduce it to 1 warning after the first event and then perma ban no questions asked 2nd time, that way if somehting like this happens they know they are on thin ice and should never do it again, and if they simply dont care or wont change then permabanned on the 2nd offense, jsut saying everyone deserves a second chance.

On a side note tho you guys really should work on getting better at non offensive banter, like my friend like to type in all chat "HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY!!!" the absolute MADMAN

CensoredMercyFeb 9, 20172 votes

IDK what you guys say in the locker room but its a lot worse for me lol, also just wondering I know friends who has done a lot worse, but received warnings after warnings (and yes eventually permanently banned) but received chat restrictions, time bans for afking, and suspensions for flaming also, telling people to kill themselves, and a lot worse, but they got warnings. I've never seen a permanent ban like this one, especially with no warnings. Yes what he said was horrible, but its nothing compared to what others have done, and they recieved chat bans. I have a 3 friends who got permanently banned, one of which has gotten banned more than 4 times. All of them received warnings.

RiotRiot TantramFeb 9, 201710 votes

I know friends who has done a lot worse, but received warnings after warnings

You didn't see the rest of the chat .... you only saw a few lines. Trust me, it was bad.

CensoredMercyFeb 9, 20178 votes

I was in the game my good sir

Dominick DestineFeb 10, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7GAyQVIA,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-02-09T02:07:17.334+0000)

It was hate speech. We have a zero tolerance policy towards hate speech.

That's fine, as long as anti white, anti christian, heterophobic language also leads to instant permaban.

The rules should apply equally, that is all I ask, even if they are insanely draconian.

TrulyBlandFeb 10, 20178 votes

I agree with your point, the policy should definitely apply to all kinds of hatespeech. But I also don't see any reason to believe that this is not the case.

As an irrelevant sidenote: What does heterophobic language look ilke? I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I honestly cannot imagine any attempt of heterophobic language that wouldn't just sound like satire of homophobia.

RallerenPFeb 10, 20174 votes

I have actually heard people say:

"White trash piece of shit cis scum" unironically, but i belive saying that ingame will lead to an easy permaban.

Dominick DestineFeb 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

But I also don't see any reason to believe that this is not the case.

I have never seen someone complaining that they got insta-permabanned for those things, which leads me to believe that the rules apply selectively.

As an irrelevant sidenote: What does heterophobic language look ilke?

Same as so-called "homophobic language".

TrulyBlandFeb 10, 20177 votes

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

The overwhelming majority of hatespeech that I personally see in games is homophobic, so I'm going to expect at least a proportionate majority of permabans for hatespeech being issued for homophobia.

Why I say "at least"? Because the frequency of an offense also makes it easier to detect and process that kind of offense, which means that even if the same policy is applied to all kinds of hatespeech, it is easier to apply to the more common cases.

If 90% of all burglaries consistently happened to the exact same shop, then said shop would probably be under constant observation of the police, meaning people that still break into that shop would be far more likely to be caught than everybody else. That doesn't imply unfair treatement, let alone that other burglaries aren't going to be punished.

AeroWaffleFeb 8, 201715 votes

We engaged in some "friendly" banter (was kinda over the top tbh) and some of us might have said offensive words. We jokingly reported him after the game so he gets a chat restriction, because we are friends like that lol.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

TwiggersFeb 8, 20179 votes

the situation deserves a facepalm indeed

AeroWaffleFeb 8, 201710 votes

I don't think you understand.

Riot relies on reports to know if someone feels like another player's behavior was out of line.

No reports = Riot thinks everyone was fine with the behavior.

Report = consider the reported person's behavior.

Your friend behaved in such a way that an outside observer would consider the behavior poor. He was reported by people in his game.

Everything was executed exactly how it was designed to function.

TwiggersFeb 8, 201713 votes

and that's why the situation deserves a facepalm, we are dumbasses

Elite4RunnerFeb 9, 20176 votes

https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder336/67865336.jpg

RookPusherFeb 8, 20174 votes

"Guys, it was banter. You know, like friends do. So we're going back and forth, and then I call him a criminal, so he calls me a murder, so I say "you belong in jail," and he says "Not before a murder" and calls the cops to say I confessed to a murder. Well, as you can imagine I'm laughing so hard I can' stop him. He hangs up and we all have a great laugh. Then, for no reason at all the cops show up and arrest him!

I guess what I'm saying is that the police really overreacted and they need to take a joke. Now take my friend off of death row.

TwiggersFeb 8, 20175 votes

that's not even close to being on the same level tho

RookPusherFeb 8, 20175 votes

It's not about level, it's about mechanism.

If you ask for a judicious response, which is what a report is, why are you shocked to find you got what you asked for?

Supreme Senpai69Feb 9, 20172 votes

He didn't think it would go from zero to one hundred. He wanted his friend to get a chat ban which admittedly, having the same sense of humor, I would find funny to do to my friends as well. He just didn't realize hate speech = permanent ban

RookPusherFeb 9, 20173 votes

Look man, I get where you guys are coming from, but you need to realize - and I'm no one's father here - but you need to realize the world has systems set up to make everything run efficiently. It's not up for renegotiation because you wanted to have a good time.

Hate speech is mostly not funny, and the people who use it cause more problems than they're worth, so we remove them from society. I'm not saying don't have fun, but that report was pretty fucking stupid.

Supreme Senpai69Feb 10, 20172 votes

I wasn't a part of this I agree he's an idiot lol. I only say that because he even said as much, and not to be mean. I just can get the humor behind it is all. It's definitely something I would have done when I was a teenager maybe.

EviLCoopFeb 9, 201713 votes

i want to revoke my report, that was to much and i want to apologise. sry man

TwiggersFeb 9, 20177 votes

I revoke my report as well, sorry for all the trouble Tantram

tomi87Feb 9, 20177 votes

Same for me, I revoke my report, as we where a full team with voice chat, none of the reports were intended as we knew it was just for fun, wish him best of luck to get his account back. Thanks a lot Tantram

ØilyCûntStewFeb 10, 20177 votes

I revoke my report as well

destrol2534Feb 11, 20173 votes

I revoke my report too sry for the wait man i was working

DrCyanideFeb 11, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7GAyQVIA,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-02-09T02:07:17.334+0000)

Tell you what ...

If every single person in this game who reported posts here in the next 3 days, rescinding their report, I'll see what I can do about getting it reduced to a 14 day ban.

[...] they weren't reported by their teammates (5-man premade), they have no prior penalty history, and the enemy (5-man premade) team is posting here on their behalf.

Now to count:

{quoted}

i want to revoke my report, that was to much and i want to apologise. sry man

{quoted}

I revoke my report as well, sorry for all the trouble Tantram

{quoted}

Same for me, I revoke my report, as we where a full team with voice chat, none of the reports were intended as we knew it was just for fun, wish him best of luck to get his account back. Thanks a lot Tantram

{quoted}

I revoke my report as well

{quoted}

I revoke my report too sry for the wait man i was working

Ladies and Gentlemen, all 5 votes have been revoked. What remains to be seen is what strings Riot Tantram can pull to reverse the ban.

RiotRiot TantramFeb 11, 201722 votes

When I get back into the office on Monday, I'll run this down. I'm going to reduce it to a 14-day ban.

Also ... Don't do this again:-p.

DrCyanideFeb 12, 20172 votes

I just made the summary post to highlight it, I'm not stupid enough to report my friends (and even if I, was the system would throw it out because they wouldn't say anything worthy of a punishment)

CensoredMercyFeb 12, 20171 votes

BTW when you reduce it is it going to be a 14 day starting on Monday or from when he got permed? We're addicted to the game and we need to play ASAP or I will have to go to rehab. TY.

RiotRiot TantramFeb 12, 20177 votes

2 week total penalty. From the time of initial application.

Electro522Feb 12, 20177 votes

I would just like to say that this particular situation proves 2 things about Riot:

1: They do truly care about their player base. Despite what went down, Tantram here is still willing to give a little leeway due to the situation. In any other situation, he wouldn't budge an inch (which is a good thing)

2: Riot actually does look at those reports. People complain about the Tribunal being gone for so long, but, in a sense, it still exists due to the report system. It's just a a different system that Riot may have a more control over than what they had over the Tribunal.

Now, you might say "Well, this is Behavior and Moderation, which is a completely different department than, say, Gameplay", which is true. But every department does hold the overall core values of the company to heart. You may think Riot doesn't care, and is only in it for the BIG BUCK$, but once you look at a situation like this......it simply isn't true.

I've always been a supporter for Riot, and this little story just reaffirmed my support for them.

AnomanderFeb 8, 20177 votes

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn] just a bump for vision i want to see a Riot Tantram response.

YerroFeverFeb 11, 20175 votes

What kind of person reports their friend in game as a joke knowing what kind of things were said?

Not only are you a terrible person for saying such bigoted things... you're also a terrible friend knowing the kinds of consequences that could happen due to your bigoted speech.

Dominick DestineFeb 11, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Not only are you a terrible person for saying such bigoted things.

I don't disagree with the draconian system applying it's rules fairly to all (obviously) but do you even know what the word "bigoted" means? because I'm pretty sure you don't.... if he was talking to a friend, that is not "bigotry".

An old idiom in my country said; Women use compliments to show derision. Men use insults to show affection.

None of what he said was "bigoted", maybe "offensive" (according to the draconian system) but certainly not bigoted.... ironically, your intolerance of his behavior is ACTUAL bigotry.... lol. https://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&q=bigotry+definition&oq=bigotry+definition&gs_l=hp.3..0l9.337.2337.0.2434.19.15.0.3.3.0.173.1563.3j10.13.0....0...1c.1.64.hp..5.13.1230.0..5j35i39k1j0i131k1j0i20k1j0i10k1.jvTDBy1ojHg

YerroFeverFeb 12, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7GAyQVIA,comment-id=00160000,timestamp=2017-02-11T23:52:16.568+0000)

I don't disagree with the draconian system applying it's rules fairly to all (obviously) but do you even know what the word "bigoted" means? because I'm pretty sure you don't.... if he was talking to a friend, that is not "bigotry".

An old idiom in my country said; Women use compliments to show derision. Men use insults to show affection.

None of what he said was "bigoted", maybe "offensive" (according to the draconian system) but certainly not bigoted.... ironically, your intolerance of his behavior is ACTUAL bigotry.... lol. https://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&q=bigotry+definition&oq=bigotry+definition&gs_l=hp.3..0l9.337.2337.0.2434.19.15.0.3.3.0.173.1563.3j10.13.0....0...1c.1.64.hp..5.13.1230.0..5j35i39k1j0i131k1j0i20k1j0i10k1.jvTDBy1ojHg

If you actually look at the full definition of a bigot, it is one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

Try reading full definitions of words instead of what you think they mean. Google is a great starting point but should never be your ending point.

EDIT: Bigoted speech does include racial slurs and if you actually took the time to read through some of the posts and red comments, they included hate speech.

Remember that Person X can be a bigot by talking about Person Y to Person Z while Person Y is not present. But that's not how you think. You're limited to the first google result that isn't even a complete definition. Thanks for chiming in but try again.

Dominick DestineFeb 12, 20172 votes

{quoted}

If you actually look at the full definition of a bigot, it is one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group)

Nope, fail.

Merriam webster https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot Intolerance or unwilling to accept the behavior of others, as you do.

Dictionary.com stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own

Shall we continue? your argument is trash and once again, the irony stands; That you display bigotry against a target you called bigoted.... heh

YerroFeverFeb 13, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7GAyQVIA,comment-id=0016000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-12T19:42:41.471+0000)

Nope, fail.

Merriam webster https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot Intolerance or unwilling to accept the behavior of others, as you do.

Dictionary.com stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own

Shall we continue? your argument is trash and once again, the irony stands; That you display bigotry against a target you called bigoted.... heh

You actually go to the link and here's the image below.

http://imgur.com/a/d1bai

Clearly you don't read parts that actually go against what you believe because you don't want contrary evidence. We don't need to continue. Your argument style is like "hey ignore actual stuff but only look at a few things I say and disregard the rest"

When the red post says it was "hate speech" it doesn't just mean offensive, it means much more than offensive. However, you may disagree with the definition of hate speech and if that is the case, then please define what you think hate speech is.

EDIT: If your definition of hate speech is "being offensive" then I can understand why there is so much of a disagreement.

REEDIT: I've just looked through your comment history and you're just a troll. You're going to disagree to the bitter end and then when I disengage after this because you're not worth any more time, you'll say you have won.

Dominick DestineFeb 13, 20172 votes

{quoted}

You actually go to the link and here's the image below.

Did you even bother to read that definition? because it seems to me you didn't.

Which is a hilarious demonstration of your confirmation bias.

If your definition of hate speech is "being offensive"

What the fiddle sticks are you even talking about? I gave you three sourced definitions and in none of them was the core premise "This is offensive" , you are not very bright, sir.

No, I said , maybe the chat logs are against the draconian system by virtue of being "offensive" but not "bigotry" by any means. YOU are bigoted, not him and this is operating based on the multiple definitions I provided and I can provide more, Oxford dictionary also concurs with the other three defitions I provided and your definition fits in nicely as well.

Basically what I'm saying is, despite many attempts to inform you, you fail to understand or accept the actual meaning of the word "bigotry"... ironically.

SkyPlaysFeb 9, 20171 votes

I really don't understand why hate speech is taken very seriously... What are we, in kindergarten? No! Most of us are over the age of 16 and won't be bothered to be called a "dumbass" a "retard" (i won't list every "offensive" word). Honestly if you can't take insults from someone you DONT EVEN KNOW AND WILL NEVER ACTUALLY SEE, then go back to playing SinglePlayer Minecraft, because League is obviously not the game for you...

EvilDustManFeb 9, 201717 votes

{quoted}

I really don't understand why hate speech is taken very seriously... What are we, in kindergarten? No! Most of us are over the age of 16 and won't be bothered to be called a "dumbass" a "retard" (i won't list every "offensive" word). Honestly if you can't take insults from someone you DONT EVEN KNOW AND WILL NEVER ACTUALLY SEE, then go back to playing SinglePlayer Minecraft, because League is obviously not the game for you...

Most of us aren't in kindergarten and don't need to resort to crude insults at people we don't even know and will never actually see.