Excessive Botting in games

ItsMillerTime69·Dec 6, 2016·8 votes·1,136 views

For the last couple weeks, I noticed that more and more players were sending bots into 3s blind pick. They have no masteries, they will not communicate, they buy without any sense. They face-check and feed almost instantaneously, even going as far as walking into a turret and dying. Even LoL bots are more challenging. Just today, I ended up in a 3s blind pick where I was the only player with 5 bots. This is getting ridiculous. Yes, I could just play ranked to try and get less of these players, but playing normal with a bunch of bots shouldn't be an existing problem. There needs to be a bot check loading into these games or within the game itself. I have reported every time and nothing is changing. Anyone else having this problem? Anyone else have any possible solutions to send to Riot? I understand that if these accounts are banned, the person can just create a new one and do the same thing. So what can we do? Ideas? Please complete the poll. Even a single bot in a game can screw things up and it's truly annoying. Let's try and get this managed better for better gameplay! :)

34 Comments

ph1234kDec 6, 20161 votes

I don't think you understand what a bot actually is.

"I was the only player with 5 bots" - No, you weren't.

FWIW A bot that is actually a bot would likely beat you.

ItsMillerTime69Dec 6, 20161 votes

I do think I meant it as phrased as they were essentially farming and dying the entire game. They weren't some noobs, they simply weren't "there." An active player would not have played the way these games went. Whoever is leveling these accounts simply uses some BoL program and then runs it during the game to gain IP and XP without having to do anything.

ph1234kDec 6, 20161 votes

I have met players like you as well as the player that player like you think are actually bots and so far I have not found even a single bot that has been accused of doing so in this manner.

They are actually new and it turns out they will even communicate if you actually communicate with them.

Sadly most of the time what you see is this in game chat: "OMG You idiot why did you die" Or "Why the hell can't you use your R" Things such as that, then the player gets frustrated that the person won't acknowledge them for their toxic behavior then further assume the account is a bot (which is a process called confirmation bias).

The reason though that I am able to identify that you are not seeing a real issue with bots is that you posted that you though there were 5 bots in your game.

ZaryelleDec 6, 20163 votes

No you are wrong, there are Really tons of bots. Some are super obvious some aren't but there are plenty.

Some obvious signs, they will turret dive for absolutely no reason, they won't react to anything you do. They'll use heal when they are already full health. There's plenty more but these are the obvious ones.

You are the kind of player I see who denies bots in game even when they're super obvious going 0/20 0 damage dealt the entire game.

Sure some of them are just new, but the ones who aren't even plaYing but just turret diving over and over for no actual reason are bots

ph1234kDec 6, 20161 votes

To make a bot tower dive for no reason and use heal at full health would take purposeful programming in an attempt to create a bot that is actually bad.

That is something Riot would do to make bots playable, not a botter would do.

ZaryelleDec 6, 20162 votes

Almost everything you've said in this thread is completely false. They put minimal effort into making bots, They don't care if their bots are good they just want it so they can get ip and xp without playing . And to be clear, these player made bots are usually way way worse than the riot made bots in CO op vs ai.

The player made bots practically don't even play the game, they just walk to turret and back, follow minions so they aren't counted as AFK. A lot of them don't even use skills the entire game.

Not the same as scripting where they use it to dodge and aim skillshots, where it's meant to play better

These bots are in plenty of games, especially at low level, I've had as much as 6 bots in one ARAM game. I don't flame them and I can tell when it's a bot a majority of the time.

All you have to do is watch them carefully after you suspect it's a bot. 9/10 bots are super obvious, the ones that aren't are the ones that you can't really be sure of because they don't all out feed and contribute 0 like the other bots, but they move extremely repetitively and still do stuff like Heal at full health

ph1234kDec 6, 20161 votes

As a software engineer, I can tell you it is easier to create a bot that performs well than one that performs terribly.

For instance, to use the summoner spell for heal at full health (which I can personally promise you happens on 0 bots) there are only a limited number of ways to do this.

Put it on a timer, which considering what tools one would use a bot through is utterly stupid since they already have information at hand beyond simple health measures.
Make it random, which is also utterly stupid.
Compare health to a number (the smart and simple way to do it) 3a. This comparison procs at max health on purpose (also utterly stupid) 3b. This comparison procs on max health due to a bug (like someone forgot to update the variable), this is not stupid but is easy to fix.

ItsMillerTime69Dec 6, 20162 votes

As a software engineer, I can only imagine you wouldn't use the crappy programs these guys are just getting off the internet to level these accounts. That being said, good or bad, a program, if functional, will serve the same purpose to the account holder.

ZaryelleDec 7, 20162 votes

{quoted}

As a software engineer, I can tell you it is easier to create a bot that performs well than one that performs terribly.

Not true, it is very easy to make the bots that currently exist. Their loop is extremely simple, they walk to enemy turret, use spells on anything that's nearby, then walk back to new minion waves. Use summoner spells anytime they're available, and yes a lot of them are actually obviously using timers because they will use spells every time they're off cooldown.

It is much harder to create bots that are good, I don't see how you could possibly believe this, especially being a software engineer. I think at this point you're just trying to argue that these aren't bots, when me and the OP are certain they are bots.

You obviously haven't seen very many bots in game by the way you're talking about them in this thread.

ph1234kDec 8, 20161 votes

"and yes a lot of them are actually obviously using timers "

I know you don't realize it yet, but this is contradictory to "It is much harder to create bots that are good".

So let's talk about using heal. The simple way, and the way that you will know how to do even if you have never taken a computer science class in your life and have only read the language spec is to use an If statement. e.g. If CurrentHealth <= MaxHealth*0.8 Then SendKey(HealKeybinding) EndIf

Super simple, will never heal at full health. Setting up a timer on the other hand is complex. Requires more thought to do, more knowledge beyond the spec as you need library knowledge to access the OS. e.g. import system Func TimerReset(x): x = system.Time() EndFunc TimerInterval = 5 Func TimerPoll(x) bool: If system.Time() >= (x + TimerInterval) Then Return True Else Return False EndIf EndFunc Timer = system.Time() If TimerPoll(Timer) == True Then SendKey(HealKeybinding) TimerReset(Timer) EndIf

So, both of these would be pretty obvious from a log perspective that they are scripted. So what are the differences? Well one works without healing at full health, requires less time and less code which means it costs less money and results in less bugs and also took less intelligence and knowledge to create. The other, based on timers, has the problem of healing at full health, took more code which means more time, more money, more bugs and is also contradictory in implementation. This is because it takes more intelligence and knowledge to create the timer boilerplate and yet our result is clearly less intelligent than our first result.

Another example I won't go into as I believe the pseudocode I poster here is already TMI is to create a dodge. If you have something that dodges skillshots and it doesn't do it every time then it is not likely a bot. This is because a bot has immediate access to data and instant reaction time so every dodgeable SS will be dodged unless you explicitly force it to miss. Another example of how it is easier to create a better bot than what you are describing than it is to create the bot you are describing.

"I think at this point you're just trying to argue that these aren't bots, when me and the OP are certain they are bots." No. my point is that the specifics described are counter intuitive to be botting and only Riot actually has the data to prove whether or not they are really bots.

"You obviously haven't seen very many bots in game by the way you're talking about them in this thread." Perhaps, perhaps not. What I have seen however is hundreds of player assuming that they have teammates that are bots. Many of these I investigated myself, some I didn't need to investigate at all as I have seen people accuse players that I am in the same room as which I can see everything those players do so I already know the truth. However in most of the ones I actually investigated from the randos that get accused the pattern has been the same EVERY time, it is just a new player. Many of them genuinely are trying to learn and I have been able to teach as a result. However in game they don't communicate due to the toxicity against them (unless they are communicating with me after being invited to another game). One of the most extreme example of this was in a smurfing game where I was level 3. I jumped into my first PvP on that account and there was a wukong who was bad at the game. He only ran down mid, even though someone else called it. He constantly fed. Now most rational people would simply assume "Oh, well here is a new player. His account is level 3 so of course he is not good at the game." In this game however, two of our teammates started pinging him. Then chatting. They were toxic, they made him play worse by constantly questioning his plays even though he never typed back to them. I chatted to my team, telling them he is obviously new. THey chatted back claiming he is a bot because his is mid and he sucks and he isn't responding. He added me himself after that game and instantly started asking questions. Such as "Is it possible for me to move and attack using the keyboard instead of mouse buttons? I have my kids sleeping and my mouse is loud." I explained and invited him to a few games to see if he figured out the mapping and had any other questions. In those games more people were toxic to him so he only would respond and talk to me.

This however motivates me to comment on these types of threads because I see these unfounded claims in games constantly especially on low level accounts. My goal is to talk those who think there is some crazy bad bot problem off the proverbial cliff and just have them report the accounts they think are botting.

I will also mention though as a last note which I feel is important. I do not play on Twisted Treeline as it is not a very good map and is even more difficult for new players. However because of that and because many people don't play there it is a potential spot for a botter to want to be for less visibility (although ARAM would make more sense since designing simple run down the mid lane bots would not be fishy). Anyways the most important thing is to report, because even though most of the time when it comes to people thinking others are cheating or botting they are simply wrong, reporting let's Riot review the data and if they are cheating that account will be banned. If the botter i looking for money, they just lost a sale. Keep reporting, keep losing them money and they will either stop so that they can find a career that actually pays or they will have to reduce the time they spend doing it at least so they have additional income. The mechanism to control this type of an issue already exists and that is the reporting system.

ZaryelleDec 8, 20163 votes

You are beyond reason, talking all of this when it is very irrelevant to this thread. These types of bots that exist are EXTREMELY easy to create, the fact you think these bot programmers (who are just farming IP/XP) go to all this effort to create a bot just shows you have no idea. We never mentioned half the things you said and they don't apply to these bots, they don't dodge skillshots, they don't even really play the game.

The program only casts spells and uses summoner spells any time they are near enemies, minions or not, so it's not exactly a timer, but they will use it at that time whether or not they have health, it doesn't check their health it just uses it any time they are near enemies and its off CD.

I will repeat again, since you are trying to make something simple into something more complex, which I will insist, this is extremely easy to make these bots, their loop is extremely obvious:

Run to tower, run back to minion waves, cast skills and summoner spells every time they are off cooldown, buy from a preset list of items when they die.

That is ALL 90% of these bots do, if you can't understand how simple this would be to make IDK what to tell you, but I'm done.

I know when you're in comp science, some of these 'optimal' ways to do things seem obvious, but these guys making the bots clearly aren't really programmers (except for the better bots you can buy which i won't mention here cause it gets censored) by the way they make their bots. They aren't creating a bot to play the game, they're just trying to make it seem not AFK so they can get XP/IP without playing. They're not trying to make a good bot, not at all (like BoL does try to make good bots/scripting)

I urge you to make a brand new account ,play on ARAM and Co Op vs Intermediate late at night, and tell me you do not see tons of bots. Go do it yourself, because obviously you have not seen the loops any programmer would notice these bots are running in.

You don't know how many times I've tried to 'communicate' with these bots, asking them if they want help, suggesting items to buy, not once flaming, and they never react to anything any other player does in the game. You can save them with heal and they'll run right back into the turret, cause they're not programmed with any effort, they will not react to one thing you do the whole game.

Match history isn't the greatest evidence, but if I suspect a bot I will occasionally check their match history, and they are going scores like 0/15/0 with 1000 damage dealt in a 45 minute game, for more than 10 games in a row. A real new player will very rarely do this badly, but every bot I suspected always has this exact same type of score. And it's never a surprise because they don't do anything in the game besides the loop I mentioned, a lot of them won't even attack enemy champions more than once or twice the whole game.

I've met plenty of new players, in game and irl, and none of them are anywhere close to being as bad as the bots.

ph1234kDec 8, 20161 votes

You are just stumbling through confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance.

Confirmation bias is expressing as your belief that these accounts are botting based on your bias of how you think a bot is designed to play. You see players that fit into your preconceived notion of a bot and your confirmation bias marks them as a bot even though you really have absolutely no evidence that these people you assume are bots are actually bots. All you are making is grand assumptions.

Your cognitive dissonance on the other hand is causing you to ignore factual information and even invent statistics to fit your narrative. E.G. Your statement "That is ALL 90% of these bots do" is just made up in its entirety. As mentioned previously, you have no evidence of even a single account actually botting and this little statistic would require you know all accounts that are doing so as well as being familiar with the code of those bots or at least of their functionality. Your "bot loop" is also made up. You created it in your mind and continue to assume it is an accurate representation of the real world.

ZaryelleDec 8, 20163 votes

The bot loop they run in is extremely obvious after seeing 100 or more of them doing the exact same thing. Play a new account in ARAM and Co op VS Intermediate an tell me they aren't filled with bots. After you've identified one bot, most of them will do the exact loop I mentioned and nothing else the entire game.

I bet you think these are new players too? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBOfwJVkZ_o

You have no evidence these are not bots. You are assuming these bot programmers are 'good programmers' and are trying to make bots that are good at the game, they are not. They are merely an IP/XP farming tool, except for more advanced ones like BoL.

If anyone is ignoring evidence, it's you. You were convinced you were right before you even posted in this thread, you're clearly not interested in having a real argument about it, to the point you're making irrational arguments like a bad bot is harder to create than a good one, and thinking these bot programmers are trying to make good bots when they are only IP farming tools. You even go as far as telling all new players complaining about bots that they aren't bots. I'm sure plenty of new players get accused of being bots, that doesn't mean bots are not an overwhelming problem

Even trying to say all these bots going 0/15/0 and 0 damage dealt in 10 or more games in a row are just new players.. ridiculous.

Botting is such a common problem at low level it's actually quite hilarious seeing you go through all this effort to disprove it.

ph1234kDec 8, 20161 votes

"You are assuming these bot programmers are 'good programmers' and are trying to make bots that are good at the game, they are not. " No, I am assuming that these programmers are terrible, with 0 experience in a CompSci program or profession.

"If anyone is ignoring evidence, it's you." No, you have to provide evidence for it to be ignored and the video you posted in this last post is the only piece of evidence that has been provided yet and since I cannot see what you have not posted I cannot very well ignore it. I will point out though that you posted a link to an ARAM game which coincidentally is where I told you a botter would be more likely to play with what you are describing vs Twisted Treeline which is the map the OP was posting about. Also, I agree that this video looks like botting.

"Botting is such a common problem at low level it's actually quite hilarious seeing you go through all this effort to disprove it." Well, for it to be a common problem, it would actually need to be common. However I have played many games on low level account as I regularly introduce new players to them game and create smurfs to help them learn and as mentioned already there is a common problem with people assuming others are bots however botting is not actually commonly obsered in these game. That is besides the point though, I am actually not attempting to disprove anything. What I am attempting to do is help people understand their bias and to get them to report the people they think are botting because that is the solution to any botting problem. They will be banned for 3rd party programs, lose all that time, and as such lose money which means they will bot less and less.

KremdogDec 23, 20161 votes

T. Riot shill

Forced FeedDec 8, 20165 votes

Jesus christ dude, bots are a huge problem at low level, quit talking out your ass you have no idea what you're talking about. Just goes to show how far someone will go to prove they're right.

Sure I'll just calmly go tell those 3 bots (er players) turret diving in sync to please stay with me, I'm sure itll work :)

pokomontisDec 8, 20163 votes

Pro software engineer can't even identify blatant botting LMAO

ItsMillerTime69Dec 6, 20162 votes

I think the point you are missing is that the intent of these botters is to simply gain IP/XP per game by whatever means necessary with little to no effort. Losing, dying, and being good don't matter. It's a simple leveling technique to get a level 30 account.

ZaryelleDec 7, 20162 votes

He's now trying to argue that a bad bot (the current ones that don't do anything and just run in super obvious loops) is harder to program than a good bot, that has to account for which skills to use when and positioning, none of which the current bots do. And also trying to use this horrible reasoning to say there aren't bots in our games... I think at this point it's best to just ignore him.

He's apparently a software engineer but can't identify the super obvious patterns these bots are in...

ItsMillerTime69Dec 6, 20161 votes

I would like to point out, I don't rage at bots or discourage lower level players. Been on the other side of that when I started LoL years ago. It's no more worth it than yelling at slow drivers on the road. This is just a game, I am merely sad that botters take away from the enjoyment and fun of the game not unlike AFK, rage quitters, etc. Since Riot has implemented time penalties and game bans for people who do the latter, they should do the same with botters.

ph1234kDec 6, 20161 votes

Riot does ban any and all 3rd party program usage and botting is the easiest thing to see since scripted input looks nothing like human input.

EDIT: Not all 3rd party program usage, but any that interferes with the game they do.

ZaryelleDec 7, 20161 votes

Botting input looks incredibly similar to user input.. it's only obvious they're bots if you're in the game itself. I'm finding it hard to believe you are a software engineer when you don't understand some of the simplest things about how botting works in this game. Having a software engineering background you should be able to identify the obvious loops these bots are running in

ph1234kDec 8, 20161 votes

"Botting input looks incredibly similar to user input."

No it doesn't look like human input in any way. This is my area of expertise, I have spent years of my career analyzing packet traces to determine many things about how our programs interact and how customers are interacting with our programs for problem solving/bug analysis and fixes. One of the most important things we have to know is whether a human or a computer performed an action and it is extremely easy to figure out even outside of the context of a video game (which is even easier btw).

Humans and computers experience differences in choice, speed and reaction time. When you add this to a video game, which requires heavy interaction and as such a large amount of reactions you should be able to infer why it is easy to tell them apart.

" it's only obvious they're bots if you're in the game itself."

This is also incorrect. In fact, it is nearly impossible to know if someone is botting if you are in game with them or by merely watching a replay of the game on youtube for example. This is simply inference based on what your perceptions of bot behavior already are and even if you have a good understanding you cannot make an accurate inference from in game. This doesn't mean you shouldn't report them. In fact anytime you believe they are cheating like this, please report. This will flag them for review so that the actual data can be analyzed.

The only actual way to tell if someone is botting is to review data which you do not (however Riot absolutely does) have access to. This is the game log, the server side replay data. The wonderful treasure trove of every single command sent and the exact time it arrived. A log which allows you to easily pick out reaction times, scripted loops vs human loops and the like.

KremdogDec 23, 20162 votes

Dude, I actually typed in chat my last TT game “is anyone here not a bot”. No response. Now you tell me, do those sound like active players to you?

ZaryelleDec 6, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I don't think you understand what a bot actually is.

The irony...

ItsMillerTime69Dec 6, 20162 votes

I appreciate your insight and input. If I could post the entire game replays for people to understand exactly how bad the botting is, they would know it's not just a beginner player. As you were saying, straight up turret dives, standing in place while being attacked, etc. I don't feel as though I need to justify what I know to be true which is that they were indeed bots, I just hope that Riot can get the number of these accounts under control. Today alone, I encountered 8 bots total in 2 TT games.

Hauling AsheDec 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I don't think you understand what a bot actually is.

"I was the only player with 5 bots" - No, you weren't.

FWIW A bot that is actually a bot would likely beat you.

LOL. Play a few co-op vs AI games. Let me know your conclusion on bots afterwards.

ph1234kDec 23, 20161 votes

That I play a lot of on my smurfs as I am usually teaching new players on them and that is where I don't see them but I do see a lot of people claiming that others are bots unfoundedly.

However, on these same accounts if I play on ARAM I see a lot of them. Again though, just report them. That is the way to take care of them.

Hauling AsheDec 23, 20161 votes

Then I guess I was just dreaming about that Heimerdinger who stood behind the wall and spawned his turrets in the krugs camp for the entire duration of my co-op game.

Or the Ashe who stood still in mid lane, never bought any items, and only used autos the whole game.

Forced FeedJan 17, 20171 votes

Yea this guy has no clue. Tons of us have seen blatant botting and he comes up with the most asinine reasoning that they can't be bots , such as its harder to create a bad bot than a good one. And he claims to be a software engineer, there is zero effort put into making most of these bots. It doesn't take much observation at all to see its not a player when all they do is stand under turret or don't use abilities all game.

pokomontisDec 8, 20161 votes

So those 2 teammates of mine turret diving and healing for no reason weren't new players, who knew :P

AerilusDec 8, 20161 votes

What annoys me even more is when we have 1-2 bots on our team constantly turret diving and some (real person) starts blaming me.. like pay attention for a second we have 2 bots on our team who aren't even doing anything just repeatedly diving turret. Always some annoying denier too

BabyNaixDec 9, 20161 votes

It seems like the botting started all of a sudden this week. I haven't experienced it the last week. The games become which ever team have less bots wins or which ever team have a less useless bot (the only type of bot that wasn't a total feeder in my experience is Annie) wins.