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Community Policing

Anhydrite··2 votes·722 views

What happens to accounts in a community where the majority of the population is under 24 years old? They get suspended and banned is what happens. The frontal lobe hasn't even developed until 24 years old, yet these players go around and say anything they want and get emotional about a video game. They frivolously report behind this umbrella term "toxic" because they can't take a joke and get emotionally upset because I am not the best player in the world, and I quite frankly suck. So I get reported for making jokes about my own elo, and players that try hard.

And no "try hard" is not a term used by baddies, bc "mad cuz bad" seems to be the teenager rhyme of the century. That is the try hard...making comments like "salt" "you mad bro" etc. are all taunts and really, really (not) clever memes to try hard to instigate and be inflammatory with the intent of upsetting someone.

Why am I never allowed to defend myself when being attacked by teammates bullying me about a video game RIOT? They start accusing me of inting, and I say "look at your cs...hush" and I get suspended? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Such a 1-sided system with a terrible algorithm that just goes through and looks for keywords and auto-suspends.

Yes I have been warned about my "behavior." BUT I HAVE NEVER BEEN RACIST, HOMOPHOBIC, OR ATTACKED ANY OF MY TEAMMATES EVER! I have never said, "you're trash" to a teammate or opponent for that matter. If calling someone a "try hard" is toxic, or viewed as inflammatory by this community, that is quite honestly pathetic. If it is a fact they are trying really hard, then what is toxic about facts? I just don't get it. If they are really good, and trying hard to win the game, then why is calling someone a "try hard" who constantly taunts or says things to instigate and cause a response toxic?

There are many smurf players who go to bronze to destroy players, and bc the players losing get emotional, they automatically blame whoever is having the most fun. Whoever is making jokes and laughing is blamed.

My last game before suspension I had the most gold and least deaths, yet I was reported for inting. I want to put my chat logs up, but I'm sure this community will pick them apart and say, "see this, this right here, that is toxic. We are the police you understand, and when you make fun of your own elo, you are toxic. We are infallible, and trust me, you are a terrible person." Umm, last time I checked that is called humility. Can't laugh at another player's misfortune or bad plays, but they can laugh at mine and call me toxic, and I am just supposed to sit back and not chat. And just be some passive person and not respond. Why is it that in higher elo, players can take jokes much better and really couldn't care less unless it is in a ranked game? All it takes is 1 "[All] (cool as a cucumber upset teenager in low elo norms): please 9x" and you are on the list to be suspended/banned

Sounds like a RIOT has an epidemic of emotional instability and snowflake syndrome on their hands.

Gj RIOT, seems like you have it all figured out. The whole reporting system needs to be taken out of the hands of the community, other than inting, racism/homophobic slurs, and summoner names. Tribunal....jury of my "peers"...1-sided oligarchy. The reporting algorithm should be built into the chat during game. Both sides can be accounted for instead of these literally 1-sided chat logs. As in many sports, the initial infraction isn't seen, just the retaliation. It could go a step further, and even alert a player during game that the chat has been flagged by the system and an in-game warning issued. This would likely cause a player to take it down a notch, or completely stop. It would completely negate any player saying, "go ahead report me, wtf do I care?" I can only imagine how annoyed and tired RIOT staff are of looking into ridiculous reports and going, "hmmm...I dunno...toxic, not toxic....hmmm...I mean kinda...screw it, toxic." lol jk. Sure, it may be difficult to identify everything typed out with all of these clever players using hieroglyphics (4cc3$$) in chat, but it can be done. I think it is entirely unfair for an emotional human being already on the brink of losing it to say, "stop laughing I am reporting you." There are mute buttons, yet players say "muted" and still respond to every chat; what is that? The game is supposed to be fun, and laughing is fun. How many pro-streamers laugh during the game after good/bad plays? Plenty. And plenty type out their emotion as well.

PS, thank you RIOT for changing the reward system and giving BE after every game now!

38 Comments

Kei1438 votes

{quoted}

Why am I never allowed to defend myself when being attacked by teammates bullying me about a video game RIOT? They start accusing me of inting, and I say "look at your cs...hush" and I get suspended? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Such a 1-sided system with a terrible algorithm that just goes through and looks for keywords and auto-suspends.

Here is where I have a problem with your mindset.

#What are you trying to defending yourself against?#

Are you afraid of them reporting you and you'll loose your account? Well, the system has the capability to check for false reports, that's the same for inting and chat offenses. So if you weren't really inting or consistently toxic (regardless of how mild it is), you won't be punished.

So knowing that, what else are you trying to defend against?

An e-ego (or e-penz0r) that doesn't really matter? Words that disturb you?

If it is about your penz0r, realise that this IS online, and this IS a video game. Most the time, you won't ever see that person ever again. So don't go worrying and and thinking about what others think about you. Fun fact, people don't think about you, they think about themselves.

If it's about words that disturb you, try the mute button. Things suddenly get much calmer and you can focus on the game more. You can report them afterwards and the system will police them.

Sorin Alucard1 votes

You could say the same to people that read KYS and get triggered enough to turn it into a zero tolerance report

Kei1432 votes

wut? not understanding what you are saying.

your context doesn't seem to fit into what I said. Are you viewing and replying in Chronological view? Cos that is a good way to confuse people.

Anhydrite1 votes

No e-ego. I think it is the players that do all of the reporting are the one's with the ego. Sure I have reported overly harassing players. But think about it. My last game that I referenced in my original post, I asked Shen why he was reporting me. I also asked how old he was. He told me 21. He told me that he "doesn't care normals or not, you ruined my game." I couldn't stop laughing tbh. YOUR game? Comon' now. He was my supp, and wasn't happy enough with his ADC having the least deaths and most gold, and still reported me for int...which I wasn't.

Although I don't entirely agree with Sorin about KYS due to the real problem with teenage suicides on the rise, I don't think that the community has a right to just report it bc it is in all likelihood, an ill-advised, and lackluster joke. Now, if that player persisted and repeated it over and over, it can be seen as toxic. Better to let an algorithm decide and warn the player in game.

Maybe I don't understand the "system" that you so describe as checking for false reports. If by "system" you mean an algorithm designed to check for pre-decided key words, yes one exists. Their is no discretion built in. check check check check, flag (try-hard) hits in scan...flag (bronze). OK, suspended. All checks-out...move along, nothing to see here people.

And, if it is the WORDS that disturbed the Shen, tell him about the mute button. I never called him bad, nor any of my teammates. NOT ONCE! I told him he made a bad call to dive turret. It was in fact, a bad call. People pointing out a mistake is toxic? I didn't belittle him. I didn't remind him over and over. I said it ONCE. Do you think the greatest players of any game/sport ever got some feedback/criticism of their plays from teammates and coaches? Yeh....I think a few...maybe just once or twice in their whole life.[zombie-brand-mindblown]

<24 yo...no frontal lobe...emotional tirades.

Chermorg2 votes

The mute button is not an excuse for you to be toxic. A player does not normally (and should not have to) mute you until you are already being toxic and causing a toxic in game environment. The mute button is there to mitigate future damage, not to excuse damage you've already done.

Sorin Alucard1 votes

mitigate damage to the ego

Kei1431 votes

Still don't know what you are trying to defend against.

Granted I haven't read through your whole post, as I stopped already at the point you are saying you are not allowed to defended yourself.

But I'll answer this part:

Maybe I don't understand the "system" that you so describe as checking for false reports. If by "system" you mean an algorithm designed to check for pre-decided key words, yes one exists. Their is no discretion built in. check check check check, flag (try-hard) hits in scan...flag (bronze). OK, suspended. All checks-out...move along, nothing to see here people.

There are multiple systems within IFS. Two that deal with chat only:

  • Zero Tolerance system
  • This is indeed a key word system. They really don't tolerate hate speech, racism, homophobia, or phrases that encourage others to harm themselves.
  • People that been punished incorrectly through this system (typically by repeating what the toxics have said) typically can get it overturned one time.
  • Chat Learning system (I call it this, don't know what Riot calls it)
  • This is a system that reads into context for the mild / moderate toxicity. It uses evolving language recognition systems (similar to Grammarly, surely you've seen those Ads), where it can read the whole context of a sentence / paragraph and identify whether it is things are used within a toxicity context
  • Not just a simple keyword search
  • Learns from over millions of player reports every day.
  • Puts a severity grade (or points) on the chat (if found toxic), and people that pass a certain accumulation of points within a certain period of time, they get punished

"Try-hard" and "bronze" can both be used in a neutral (or funny) context or a context that can be used for harassment. I can say "try-hard" for a thousand games at the beginning of the game without the intent of harassing others, get reported for every one of those games and not get punished. Whereas someone who uses it to harass others, will get punished in like .. 20 games.

Not sure if I can give you any other examples or clarify the system more, but hope this helps.

Sorin Alucard1 votes

Oh i'd gladly expand

Here you are advocating all the reasons why something a stranger said shouldn't affect your ego so much and if you don't like it you can mute and things will be better

And yet we have zero tolerance on KYS because of how it may affect the ego

nerak231 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sorin Alucard,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=4eP9uGso,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2017-12-02T19:51:44.470+0000)

Oh i'd gladly expand

Here you are advocating all the reasons why something a stranger said shouldn't affect your ego so much and if you don't like it you can mute and things will be better

And yet we have zero tolerance on KYS because of how it may affect the ego

They have a zero tolerance to _kys _ because of the implications of it.

Sorin Alucard1 votes

that's literally not an answer

What are the implications?

You remind people suicide exists? You used a meme to convey your dislike for someone and a wish to terminate communication? Please don't say Im actually responsible, like fully accountable for someone actually killing themselves because that's impossible. It might be sad, tragic but definitely not my problem. We're anon to each other. I could be 10 typing that for all you know.

Magical Player1 votes

Did you just say that if you encourage someone to commit suicide that you're not responsible for what they do yeah were anon's to each other but jesus man take some responsibility just because you didn't know doesn't give you a pass "i didn't know she was a minor" great argument it works every time

Sorin Alucard1 votes

lmao your real world comparisons are fkn fantastic my friend. so logically sound and connectable I applaud them

That literally makes no sense in connection

If I say KYS and kid actually does it, not my fault

Is it terribly tragic? Am I considered an asshole by others? probably

But I didn't actually kill them, so no _real_responsibility for his feelings

and since I'm anon, there's no way you can link direct correlation between me specifically saying it vs whichever other asshole anon person happened to say it. If I say it and they happen to do it, its coincidence.

*This doesn't mean we should all go into every game ready to preach KYS to those we don't like. I'm just making a point that you can't say their reactions are my personal responsibility

Hellmaximus11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sorin Alucard,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=4eP9uGso,comment-id=00010000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-02T20:42:43.802+0000)

lmao your real world comparisons are fkn fantastic my friend. so logically sound and connectable I applaud them

That literally makes no sense in connection

If I say KYS and kid actually does it, not my fault

Is it terribly tragic? Am I considered an asshole by others? probably

But I didn't actually kill them, so no _real_responsibility for his feelings

and since I'm anon, there's no way you can link direct correlation between me specifically saying it vs whichever other asshole anon person happened to say it. If I say it and they happen to do it, its coincidence.

*This doesn't mean we should all go into every game ready to preach KYS to those we don't like. I'm just making a point that you can't say their reactions are my personal responsibility

The implications that if a kid commits suicide after someone in the game told him to "kys" is considered encouraging suicide, than the amount of bad publicity and the death of a kid playing THIER game. It would also likely cost them more in mother refusing to let there kid play/spend on LoL vs the cost of spending the money to make a program instantly ban a user that says "kys" so they have the claim they attempted to do something to stop the problem, which they did.

Sorin Alucard1 votes

this really has nothing to do with my response. not talking about Riot's responsibility.

Hellmaximus11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sorin Alucard,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=4eP9uGso,comment-id=0001000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-04T01:16:16.539+0000)

this really has nothing to do with my response. not talking about Riot's responsibility.

Replied to the wrong comment you made.

[{quoted}](name=Sorin Alucard,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=4eP9uGso,comment-id=000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-12-02T20:14:17.658+0000)

that's literally not an answer

What are the implications?

You remind people suicide exists? You used a meme to convey your dislike for someone and a wish to terminate communication? Please don't say Im actually responsible, like fully accountable for someone actually killing themselves because that's impossible. It might be sad, tragic but definitely not my problem. We're anon to each other. I could be 10 typing that for all you know.

This was the correct one. I was answering what the implication are and also counter the argument you made here since you can be held accountable for it in certain cases.

EvilDustMan4 votes

Why are you not muting these people immediately?

Sorin Alucard2 votes

^^^^This

If people want to type that much and play, let them Rito

Free speech free country bb. AND we have a mute

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Magical Player1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sorin Alucard,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=4eP9uGso,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-12-02T18:13:34.647+0000)

^^^^This

If people want to type that much and play, let them Rito

Free speech free country bb. AND we have a mute

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/749/743/6e4.jpg

Sorin Alucard1 votes

lmfao

Keep reposting it bro. You look silly as a vindictive lil shitbird

Magical Player1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sorin Alucard,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=4eP9uGso,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-12-02T19:57:02.761+0000)

lmfao

Keep reposting it bro. You look silly as a vindictive lil shitbird

You think free speech is something its not, You need to read your rights

Sorin Alucard1 votes

Im aware of what rights I've fought for there buddy

You're being petty, not genuine

Your cartoon doesn't actually address my point, so why am I going to argue legal free speech consequences when I'm talking about personal responsibility for emotional responses?

Magical Player2 votes

Personal responsibility for emotional response Okay lets talk about that, lets forget free speech for now. Im sure it will come up again But here we go Yes you are right about the mute funcution and how it resolves the continued harassment. Does it undo the past harassment that caused me to mute you? No Is that still viable harassment

Why should I have to control your emotional outbursts? Note the mute button doesn't stop you, it only plugs my ears to you. You're still going at it, even though i muted you So where did muting stop you?

Sorin Alucard1 votes

lmfao

So let me get this straight, you being called an idiot, or me saying "wtf are you doing noob?" is harassment enough for you to be triggered all game even after muting me? Did you receive some damage you have to heal from for being called dumb? Harassment is automatic acceptance of responsibility for your emotions? That doesn't seem correct. What if we have different lines for what's called harassment? We just follow Rito?

You were given a tool, a solution for the specific problem and its still not good enough for you? Once you've muted me, if I keep typing, what does it matter to you? Does it literally cause you physical pain to think about me still typing negative things of you? Muting me completely stopped me from interacting with you with words. Job well done I'd think.

What if im actually trying to help you, but the only diction I know based on my background is crass to you? If you get offended because I didn't word my advice like im coddling you automatically gets me a report? I think most people who were involved in other competitive team activities aren't so sensitive to deem every "not so nice" thing as harassment, and there's still no proof I'm responsible for someone's feelings.

Please don't quote what Riot bans _now_as justification. I'm literally arguing for why it shouldn't be so strict. In the end, I don't think you _should _ get on league ready to telling people to jump off a bridge, but I also think there is no good to come from overly policing what we say. I think responsibility falls on each individual to use the tools at their disposal to interact as they see fit, and if there's a disagreement or fight there's an instant solution

Magical Player1 votes

"I think responsibility falls on each individual to use the tools at their disposal to interact as they see fit" done I think I was being harassed I submit a report for being harassed riot determines if I was being harassed

Mute is a tool to mitigate future harassment it does not resolve past harassment. It also does not stop the harasser from continuing to harass. All it does is make it so I don't read it.

Idiot is low tier harassment that by itself won't get you punished The system is far more forgiving than you think. People don't understand that OFC riot can't tell you what is or isnt acceptable because ten people would just skirt the rules

Right there "Am I considered an asshole by others? probably' This is what riot is telling you that cartoon you keep disregarding Riot does not want assholes

Do they think you actually pushed them off the edge, i can't say but riot wants people to respect others and not push them off the edge

We're all anon's, meaning you don't know others circumstances Meaning you should treat everyone eqaully and with respect

Sorin Alucard1 votes

lol we're going in circles and you aren't even slightly convincing

we fundamentally disagree

Magical Player1 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Sorin Alucard1 votes

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Magical Player1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sorin Alucard,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=4eP9uGso,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-04T01:18:04.450+0000)

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Sorin Alucard1 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Magical Player1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sorin Alucard,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=4eP9uGso,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-04T01:35:32.467+0000)

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Aight last one, pointless posting

Taeseuk1 votes

Doesn't matter how many people report you 1 or 9 it's all the same thing a single report flags the game for review 9 reports flags the game review, also if you've done nothing wrong and been reported inaccurately nothing will be done at all which means for the system to have issued you with a punishment you did something even if you don't think it's "that big of a deal. "

There is also a difference between stating a fact and using it as an insult, the idea of league isn't to insult people and if you're using the term "try hard" as an insult that's not allowed. You may not think of it as much but that doesn't mean somebody else doesn't, while you could say "people are too sensitive then" not everybody is raised the same, not everybody come a from the same culture or background and to different people different things are insulting and there for it's easier for riot to just simply say don't post anything that insults a player even something minor that way there is no risk of x person being insulted by x remark because of where or how they were raised.

While yes the community will pick apart your chat logs most don't do it to tell you a bad person, most try to do it to show a player where there chat turned from acceptable to not. How they got their ban and how it's not tolerated as many people don't always understand why their own words are toxic because "I don't find it to be an issue" so the community while you could call it policing will give their opinion if you don't want theirs ask riot, submit a support ticket and you will find out why they deem your chat inappropriate.

As for people purposefully trying to flame you/being toxic towards you just mute them and report them before moving on, while it's hard to jot retaliate doing so only proceeds to create more hostility and even creates a negative environment for other members of your team, you are also responsible for your own actions so if you reply to toxicity with toxicity then you will be punished accordingly as you chose to deal with a situation in that manner.

Anhydrite2 votes

I understand what you are trying to say. But, the thing is, how could it ever be used as an insult? Someone would have to interpret it as such. I cannot convey it as an insult. That doesn't make any sense to me. I would have to say, "you are a try hard, and that is meant to be an insult" lol. Literally makes no sense. It is always seen as a fact when stated. The sky is blue. Fact. However you interpret that, it is a fact. No matter which way you look at it. So, the same holds true. The fact is, "you are trying hard af"...and if they are, it is a fact. The community, has taken it upon themselves to deem it as toxic, bc they don't like the idea of anyone else being right, and being called out on simple facts.

Now, calling someone by some racial/homophobic slur, or autistic, or something like that, is an offense to be reported. Repeatedly reminding someone of a bad play, is annoying at worst. Not toxic. Now, telling someone repeatedly that they suck/trash/terrible or anything inflammatory like that, is also easily understood as toxic.

Fact is, community has too much liberty to report. I think everyone can agree upon that. You sign the summoner's code, poof, there go your freedoms.

Hellmaximus12 votes

I understand what you're saying, seems like a lot of player in league under platinum get offended easily over the mildest of criticism in there gameplay In one of my recent games, my gnar was doing absolute horrid in toplane, then proceeded to screw up even more, and thats when me and my adc were "busting his balls" so to speak, ie "nice teleport lol" after he teleported into a 1v5 five seconds AFTER we all died, now me and my adc don't consider that toxic but he did, after he died a bit more and playing fairly badly we just ignored his clear tilted behavior, but mid and jungler were just harassing him constantly even though they themselves weren't doing too good, so the gnar tell everyone in all chat that his team is harassing him and to report, I just muted him and everyone but my adc at this point me and the adc win because we didn't tilt and kept playing. Now here's a question who was actually toxic?

I think an argument can be made that everyone on the team was toxic, from me and adc making fun of his bad teleport play, to the jungler and midlaner verballing abusing him, to him just QQ in all chat and team chat instead of playing causing him to die more. So far riot hasn't punished me from making jokes or busting someone for a bad play, nor has it punished players that inted in my games either.

I guess what I'm trying to say is riots current system doesn't work as intended and they been trying to move away from using fear of being banned to keep people from communicating (ie /muteall, pings only) to rewarding good behavior via hextech chest, now this in concept should work except when you place a extremely long reform period on them (2-4 MONTHS) and remove 40% of the value of orange essence.

Sorin Alucard1 votes

There shouldn't be so much weight on what was said, the weight should be on if someone trolled or not. Mute is a solution to a problem that won't ever go away: disagreements

Taeseuk1 votes

But that's the point you don't know how somebody will take that, as it can be read passive aggressively, it can be read as a straight up insult or it can be read as just fact and since when you sign the terms of use you agree to abide by riots rules which includes.

. Transmitting or communicating any content which, in the sole and exclusive discretion of Riot Games, is deemed offensive, including language that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, sexually explicit, or racially, ethically, or otherwise objectionable;

While it might be a problem with people and society and personally I don't find it to be insulting because others might in can fall into question.

If somebody does something that makes you call them a try hard you're not adding anything to the game at all, it's unnecessary and unneeded which is also an issue.

For example person a makes a stupid mistake, person b "what was that? That was a bad play dude. " it's all in good fun sure but person a is likely to already feel stupid because they did said stupid thing they don't need it pointing it out in such a manner that /could/ make them feel worse because that's how communication goes down hill.

Now if instead say person a chased down enemy a into their side of the jungle and ran into more champs that had been pinged as missing instead of person b just saying that was a bad play they could either leave it and just continue because worry about how you're playing not your teammates.

Or they could actually offer advice such as saying like if they head towards their jungle and enemies are missing they're probably running to their allies ping one of us to join or just don't chase it's not worth your life.

The first example the comment adds nothing to the game at all its pointless and there for jot needed, the second example however adds to the game and the player that made it /may/ even appreciate the help.

Magical Player1 votes

You're right when you sign the summoners code you are agreeing to behave and follow the rules laid out. Much the same with any contract, go around bashing your apartments mates, go around in traffic and harass people, Go up to your family and start harassing them. Apartment staff step in, remove you eventually, Cop steps in and removes you eventually, Family steps in and asks you to leave. That is not riot, that is the real world. Nobody wants a dick around. Riots overarching rule is "Don't be a dick" Side note Did you know you're not all that free anyway? You sacrifice freedom for security all the time. In the course of human history, man has continually gave away their freedom. Want to disagree be my guest, but its true.

You're claim is because you don't see it as an insult nobody should? You're shifting the blame on overly sensitive children, where as you yourself a capable adult who knows best

Sorin Alucard1 votes

Prepare to wade through reply after reply of the same tired logic

ShaftyMegee1 votes

How would you go about fixing this?

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