Suggestions: Deterring The Trolls (Not Trundle)

Terrim·Oct 17, 2019·2 votes·3,366 views

We've all seen them, the Zilean Jungle with Teleport and Cleanse, or the Gragas Jungle who bought a cull as his first item and and then took a 15 min break mid game to "roll a blunt". We're all tired of it, no one seems to get punished for it, but if you say anything towards them you're banned or at the very least chat restricted, instantly.

There has to be something Riot could do about this, and I know it's not as easy as it seems to find these people and ban them, and even if you do ban them they can just make another account and get nearly right back into it. So I came up with 2 ideas I think would at least deter them a little bit more:

Raise the level requirements for ranked games: -a dedicated player can have level 30 in no time and be right back into making the game frustrating and terrible for the rest of us. If we raised the requirements to lvl 50 or 60 would that not at least give us some more time without them in our games? Not to mention it would give being banned a little more of a punishment instead of it just being an inconvenience.

2.You can't play a champion you have no mastery in: -If you have mastery 1 or 2 on Zilean, you're not about to break the meta and be able to run him in the jungle. It's not hard to get to mastery 3 on anyone, this would stop people from going into a ranked game going "First time Xayah" or going ADC Nami and saying "Oh I didn't realize she wasn't an adc" and even if they said it, you know they're lying, they've played her.

Just a couple of small suggestions I think would make ranked a little more fun to play and deter the people who are there just to ruin everyone else's time...

Thoughts?

58 Comments

Get2Oct 17, 20196 votes

You'd have to have a level 50 or 60 account, and 20 champs at mastery 3 or higher. You see the problem here, yes? Why not just say that accounts that aren't at least 5 years old can't play ranked. Might as well.

TerrimOct 17, 20191 votes

so make it mastery 1 even, but isn't doing nothing even worse?

Get2Oct 17, 20192 votes

Something might need to be done, but can it really? People who troll are dedicated to their cause. Maybe if they had to pay monthly for the game? IDK.

TerrimOct 17, 20191 votes

so let their dedication take a little longer, that's kind of my point. At the very least we get more of a break between the trolls, takes them longer to get their new account into ranked so in theory there would be less of them at any given time.

You can't get rid of trolls completely in anything, I'm a realist, I understand that no matter what you do some people just want to watch the world burn. But as of right now it feels like nothing is being done, I'm not saying nothing IS being done, but it does feel that way.

Get2Oct 17, 20191 votes

IDK, I get trolls in my game, and I just assume it's pretty much a loss, and I can go do something else for 15 minutes while objectives get blown to smithereens from a team that is deadset to lose. Eventually, I will be in a match where the enemy team has trolls, and I am about 100% certain that troll accounts are flagged and distributed in this way to "promote equity" in the vigilant 51% WR formula.

But yeah, some investment into the account would be nice. But level 30 still takes a bit of time and so does getting the 20 champs. Unless you want to pop 20 bucks into the account. If that's how people want to spend 20 bucks, it keeps the game free for me.

But yeah, I tire of this season's trollfest. It's been pretty interesting. Then again, I fixed it by waiting until basically last week to start ranked, and spend most of my time in ARAM. Can't really troll ARAM. <3

TerrimOct 17, 20191 votes

As much as I agree with this comment, I got trolled in 5 games in a row playing ranked. Meaning the trolls were on my team 5 games in a row. I enjoy the climb, but not when the odds are stacked against me, ARAM is nice and all but I found it gets old and I was playing it in customs before it was an actual mode, I can only take a few games before I'm bored.

I think more investment in an account is the best method, they want the champs and spend money, like you said keeps the game free for us, and it keeps them out of ranked for a little longer. I get trolled in a draft or blind pick, oh well it means nothing, I'm gonna go in and have fun. I get trolled in ranked and it's just frustrating, I'm here to put the effort in, they're here to negate my effort.

GatekeeperTDSOct 17, 20192 votes

As much as I agree with this comment, I got trolled in 5 games in a row playing ranked.

If you're seeing a troll in every game, you might be the troll.

TerrimOct 17, 20191 votes

you're such a sweet heart, I'm looking for constructive criticism, not just shit posting... feel free to join the discussion or move on to another thread.

GatekeeperTDSOct 17, 20194 votes

I don't need your permission to post or reply anywhere, got it?

You want to win games, stop looking at how you can change everyone else, and look at how you can change yourself.

TerrimOct 17, 20191 votes

you don't need my permission, but you're as bad as the trolls in the game, you shit post people all over the boards and expect me to take you seriously? you're a joke, and a bad one

GatekeeperTDSOct 17, 20192 votes

YOU are the one that cares about attention and being taken seriously, and when you don't get your way, it devolves into personal insults.

TerrimOct 17, 20191 votes

YOU are the one who suggested I was the troll first, whats that about personal insults? Go shitpost someone else

I don't care about attention at all, I would like to see any other suggestions, or a debate about my suggestions. Hell maybe I am the troll, that very well could be, but if I am, I can guarantee you are with the posts I've seen of yours all over these boards.

DBS RonovonOct 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I don't need your permission to post or reply anywhere, got it?

You want to win games, stop looking at how you can change everyone else, and look at how you can change yourself.

Good solid advice man.

rujitraOct 17, 20193 votes

This isn't a shitpost at all.

It's completely valid to tell you that you need to look within yourself. Millions of players play while seeing a troll in virtually no games - so if you're seeing more "trolls" than that either you are mislabeling people as trolls who aren't, or you're doing something to cause them.

SyrileOct 17, 20192 votes

{quoted}

This isn't a shitpost at all.

It's completely valid to tell you that you need to look within yourself. Millions of players play while seeing a troll in virtually no games - so if you're seeing more "trolls" than that either you are mislabeling people as trolls who aren't, or you're doing something to cause them.

Question:

You go into a game, saying nothing at all in pre-game lobby and nothing in chat. The top laner walks straight into lane and dies as the minions are spawning to a single person. Top laner respawns, TPs top, walks straight up to the top laner and dies again. Top laner respawns, walks to top lane, dies again. Enemy top laner recalls with tons of gold and returns. Ally top laner walks to lane, walks past the river, walks directly up to the very fed top laner and starts attacking them until they die again. Ally top laner TPs to bot lane, steals a kill (literally, walks in a circle around someone that is CC'd, not attacking until the final hit), resetting their gold given when dying... recalls, goes top lane and feeds again.

In the end, they have 14 deaths and 1 kill. Ally top laner, outside of laning phase, walks into enemy JG and ignores team fights and dies instantly to the JG they fed as well. Upon respawning, they TP to the control ward in the enemy JG that is lit up by an enemy ward and visible enemies on that control ward. All allies in a completely different part of the map. Top laner dies again.

Keep in mind, no one is saying a word to this person at all. The most they get is pings when someone is missing or someone is coming (which they ignore).

The player is not new. They are nearly level 200 and are Gold 1 with mastery level 7 on their champion.

This continues all game.

Very next game.

Top laner walks straight into enemy top laner, dying immediately. They walk straight back to lane (no TP this time) and die again. After dying four times in the first few minutes, the enemy top laner is safely turret diving them without needing to flash and the top laner starts complaining. No one has spoke before the game or during the game to them.

Top laner never shows up for any team fight, walks directly under turrets to keep fighting enemy players, goes 0/13/2.

Player is Platinum 4, level 220something, has ML7 on their champion.

Very next game after this.

Top laner dies before minions spawn. Top laner TPs back and dies again before wave two crashes into each other. After top laner is 0/5/0, they go bot lane and start stealing bot lane minions, completely abandoning top lane as the enemy top laner takes the tower.

We rotate, mid to top and bot takes mid. Top laner feeds some more then goes bot, stands behind the tower as it is taken, TPs top lane on a minion under turret to die to the enemy. Top laner then goes into JG and starts farming ally JG, never going to a lane again when there is a team fight or minion waves to take. They only show up after a team fight is over to feed.

No one spoke to them all game.

Very next game.

Ally top laner goes down to JG, stands in a bush and dives on enemy JG, stealing the kill from ally JG (specifically waiting to finish them off and not helping prior). Ally top laner is at 20% and walks over to the assassin in mid lane, dances in front of them and dies, giving the enemy mid 300g + blue buff and then begins to chain-feed in top lane. No one says a word to them until they keep complaining about everyone else losing lane and they are told they trolled the game.

Player is Platinum 3, level 300+ and is ML 7 on the champ they are playing and several others.

These are four consecutive games.

I have seen streaks of these that go for double-digits with absolutely no chat involved.

I am curious as to how someone (in the game) could have caused these trolls to behave this way, with no chat, no ping-spam, no champ-stealing or banning, or any other form of negative behavior.

rujitraOct 17, 20193 votes

People making bad decisions is not trolling.

I’d be very careful of calling that trolling because in doing so you’re calling yourself a troll. You’ve had bad games before. Everyone has.

SyrileOct 17, 20192 votes

{quoted}

People making bad decisions is not trolling.

I’d be very careful of calling that trolling because in doing so you’re calling yourself a troll. You’ve had bad games before. Everyone has.

So your response is to literally say int'feeding is a bad decision and to say that it is the same as a bad game? Just want to be clear that is your stance here.

Reiterating here.... "20% health, walking up to the assassin mid and dancing... as-in not fighting back.. immediately after stealing a kill." This is the top laner. These are not bad choices, that is int'ing.

Chain-feeding in rapid succession, is int'ing. Tons of people saw a famous YouTuber get banned for doing this exactly.

rujitraOct 17, 20192 votes

No, it’s not. Period. Get off your high horse.

If you want bad decisions to be punished, why not start by giving up your accounts for all the bad decisions you’ve made over the years?

rujitraOct 17, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Ah, okay. So you condone int-feeding in a game. I just wanted to make sure I understood.

No, I never said that.

But what YOU condone is people being punished for being bad or having off games. Which is something that would result in literally everyone being punished for because literally everyone has bad games/days.

Furthermore, sometimes the reason people suck in games is because Riot's system puts them at a rank much higher than they deserve. Why should players be punished for Riot's system's fuck up?

SyrileOct 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

No, I never said that.

But what YOU condone is people being punished for being bad or having off games. Which is something that would result in literally everyone being punished for because literally everyone has bad games/days.

Furthermore, sometimes the reason people suck in games is because Riot's system puts them at a rank much higher than they deserve. Why should players be punished for Riot's system's fuck up?

You responded to yourself so I did not get a notification for this. However, no, you just said that it is acceptable to hide in a bush, steal a kill, then immediately go to the enemy mid laner and dance while at 20% health, rather than fight, and give them not only a free kill but blue buff at level 3.

You also said it is okay to chain-feed, despite clearly understanding the game and champion to the point that there is no way this is valid unless the account is boosted or bought.

And these things happen consistently for said players so there is no way this is a "bad game."

Why should every other player in every game those people play be punished because Riot refuses to ban players that should never be allowed in competitive games?

TerrimOct 17, 20191 votes

had he come in and said something like that, sure lets discuss it. Let's discuss what he is saying vs. what I am saying. Let's see if maybe I am the reason, lets have a discussion or a debate about it. He basically jumped in and said "No you're a troll".... grow up

Posts like that are why millions of players don't come to the forums, it's well known with almost everyone I've ever played with over the last 9 or 10 years (not sure when I made my account, but it was a very new game then).

Kei143Oct 17, 20192 votes

{quoted}

As much as I agree with this comment, I got trolled in 5 games in a row playing ranked. Meaning the trolls were on my team 5 games in a row.

Most time times when people claim the are trolls in every game, they have a pretty bad misconception of what a troll is, and probably wrongfully accusing others of trolling.

TerrimOct 17, 20191 votes

As much as I understand this, and I will admit they may not have all been trolls, but I had an Eve start building AD then swap to AP mid game, a Nami last pick as ADC then build support, a Nautilus that went afk 3 times for about 3 mins each time... the others were essentially a bot lane starting fights even though they're 0/6 and the enemy adc is 12/0... the last one I can say probably not trolling, maybe just a bad game but where is the line between intentionally feeding and having a bad game? Do they not realize they can't win the fight anymore?

Kei143Oct 17, 20191 votes

They cross the line when they intentionally want to lose the game, that's the only line that will be drawn.

TerrimOct 17, 20191 votes

I can respect that, but what happens to these people who intentionally want to lose the game? I report them, never see confirmation of the punishment. This is why I would love (but don't expect) to see the tribunal come back, at least then it felt like something was happening. Now it just feels like a free for all as long as you don't flame or use hate speech.

Kei143Oct 17, 20191 votes

Yea. Visibility and transparency of the system is an issue. The reform card only shows players 1-5 recent games as examples of unacceptable behavior. The players that reported the toxic (whether it is verbal or gameplay related) will only recieve a punishment notification if the reform card showed that game AND within the recent timeframe.

When you report a troll that the automated system can't pick up (maybe like .. 80% of the cases?), it gets put into the queue to be manually reviewed. That queue already takes 3-15 days before it clears.

Then the Rioter would pardon/punish someone based on their findings and probably use 1 game as example of their unacceptable behavior. This means by the time someone gets punished the chances of you getting a notification is pretty low; either the recent timeframe has passed, or the Rioter chose a different game to use as example.

I feel you on the visibility / clarity aspect. It's something I wanted for years. Check out this other thread from a few days ago, it's a tribunal discussion.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/YNVGwoMw-tribunal-discussion

Tribunal is great for visibility, but sucks for everything else.

rujitraOct 17, 20193 votes

The problem is that by making it take longer for trolls to troll ranked, you’re making it harder for innocent players to play ranked as well.

And if someone really wants to troll, they will, regardless.

Further, mastery locking would greatly inhibit the ability of teams to swap champions or pick order, which is an oft forgotten yet extremely powerful tool to help win the game in champion select.

TerrimOct 17, 20191 votes

That I had never thought of, very good point with the swapping champs.

As far as the innocent players, whats wrong with that? They get more practice time before they jump into ranked. If you're talking about smurfs then I still don't see the issue, if you want to smurf it takes a bit longer to get into ranked, but if you want to troll getting your account perma banned is more of a detriment, getting 5,6,7 accounts banned and wasting time to get back to level 50 or 60 is a deterrent

rujitraOct 17, 20192 votes

You are asking what’s wrong with inconveniencing innocent people for little or no benefit?

Trolls who want to troll either are the type that won’t care how hard you make it, or the infrequent trolls who don’t even troll that often such that it’s hard to differentiate from them having a bad game. The first category won’t care and will still troll. The second category won’t be affected by this at all because they don’t even troll in a vast majority of games, making it hard to detect.

Thus, virtually no benefit, but a large inconvenience for new players or those on a secondary account.

TerrimOct 17, 20191 votes

it still takes longer for the trolls to get into ranked, less trolls at any given time: benefit.

You're making a new account, cool, it takes level 50 instead of 30, you take the account a bit more seriously, less likely to throw it away: Benefit.

infrequent trolls would be less likely to infrequently troll because it still runs the risk of being punished: benefit.

Even if it's a small benefit, it's a benefit. If it's only your second account whats the big deal getting to 50 or 60 instead of 30? You're not likely going to do it 10 times, just twice. This would also make people less likely to buy an account that is out of their rank, ie buying a plat account for the rewards. The price would go up because it takes longer to get there, less people would be willing to do it, and it takes more time to get it done.

I appreciate the discourse but I completely disagree with your logic

GatekeeperTDSOct 17, 20195 votes

Did you just take the worst two ideas from the thread below this one and pretend they're your own?

SyrileOct 17, 20192 votes

It is a myth that there is no way to build a system that can detect most types of trolling. It is purely a choice to not do so that allows this type of behavior to continue.

TerrimOct 17, 20191 votes

I don't believe you could automate that system, there would be way too many false positives and far too much backlash, but from a players point of view there is nearly no system at all. They monitor hate speech, and some toxicity, but as far as actual in game events (int feeding, afk without disconnect, and just trolling ie gragas in the jungle with a cull) nothing seems to ever be done.

SyrileOct 21, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I don't believe you could automate that system, there would be way too many false positives and far too much backlash, but from a players point of view there is nearly no system at all. They monitor hate speech, and some toxicity, but as far as actual in game events (int feeding, afk without disconnect, and just trolling ie gragas in the jungle with a cull) nothing seems to ever be done.

I know tons of programmers that disagree. In fact, I have seen them function in tons of games. Riot simply has no interest in doing so.

Would it be hard to automatically detect a player that was spawning and running straight down mid over and over again, dying within seconds of spawning? I doubt it. And that is just one thing out of many that can be used to detect this.

TerrimOct 22, 20191 votes

I am a programmer, I can tell you you're not taking into account all the variables. For instance, what if it's a brand new player, they really don't understand the basics of the game, they end up going 0/50/0 in their first 10 games in pvp, they get picked up by the automated system and punished for it. That to me doesn't seem fair, they could put more effort into their system though, it's extremely lacking as far as everyone I've talked to (aside from the community on these boards who go around sniffing each others farts).

They can't catch them all with an automated system, it's just not possible. But they could be catching a hell of a lot more.

SyrileOct 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I am a programmer, I can tell you you're not taking into account all the variables. For instance, what if it's a brand new player, they really don't understand the basics of the game, they end up going 0/50/0 in their first 10 games in pvp, they get picked up by the automated system and punished for it. That to me doesn't seem fair, they could put more effort into their system though, it's extremely lacking as far as everyone I've talked to (aside from the community on these boards who go around sniffing each others farts).

They can't catch them all with an automated system, it's just not possible. But they could be catching a hell of a lot more.

All? Sure, that is true. They will not catch everyone. Your statement about the new player is illogical though. The system can easily scale based on games played vs people. Someone who is unranked, has a new account, etc. would not be held the the same standards. However, someone that has an account that plays 700+ games per season for 5 years, is say... Platinum... playing a champion they play 50% of their games on, going 0/10 in the first 15-16 minutes of the game is 100% trolling.

DBS RonovonOct 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

All? Sure, that is true. They will not catch everyone. Your statement about the new player is illogical though. The system can easily scale based on games played vs people. Someone who is unranked, has a new account, etc. would not be held the the same standards. However, someone that has an account that plays 700+ games per season for 5 years, is say... Platinum... playing a champion they play 50% of their games on, going 0/10 in the first 15-16 minutes of the game is 100% trolling.

Your response is not a bad one, but I just have to point out that the word illogical means "without logic" and there is in fact logic behind what he is saying, even if its not perfect, or sound logic, its logical in some way. He means to use the outlier example, which exists, can happen, but is rare.

Thats all I am sayng, watch the way you use the word illogical.

SyrileOct 22, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=DBS Ronovon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=4HYRPEME,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-22T04:26:32.999+0000)

Your response is not a bad one, but I just have to point out that the word illogical means "without logic" and there is in fact logic behind what he is saying, even if its not perfect, or sound logic, its logical in some way. He means to use the outlier example, which exists, can happen, but is rare.

Thats all I am sayng, watch the way you use the word illogical.

I would suggest, if you are going to correct someone's use of a word, that you understand what the word means. Illogical does mean without logic. And what he said is lacking logic. Specifically, the definition of logic is "reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity." The idea that a system would be thrown out that would catch a brand new player and hold them to the same standards as a player who has as much experience as I pointed out does not meet the requirement of the definition of the word "Logic." Thus, illogical is a perfectly acceptable word to use.

DBS RonovonOct 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I would suggest, if you are going to correct someone's use of a word, that you understand what the word means. Illogical does mean without logic. And what he said is lacking logic. Specifically, the definition of logic is "reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity." The idea that a system would be thrown out that would catch a brand new player and hold them to the same standards as a player who has as much experience as I pointed out does not meet the requirement of the definition of the word "Logic." Thus, illogical is a perfectly acceptable word to use.

Well like I said, I had no problem with your response, and I don't mean a slight against you. I just see a difference in flawed logic vs no logic. That is all. If this makes it any more clear to you, then I will have hopefully helped in some way, sorry if I insulted you. Have a good one.

SyrileOct 30, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=DBS Ronovon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=4HYRPEME,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-22T04:46:43.865+0000)

Well like I said, I had no problem with your response, and I don't mean a slight against you. I just see a difference in flawed logic vs no logic. That is all. If this makes it any more clear to you, then I will have hopefully helped in some way, sorry if I insulted you. Have a good one.

Hmm.. Well, I understand that text does not convey things such as tone. However, my real thing was that flawed logic is not logic. Logic has a strict requirement to be considered logic and that was my point. To make a claim that does not hold water under strict scrutiny of the way it functions realistically, in a real world setting with actual research and effort applied to it, is illogical. That was the point.

TerrimOct 17, 20191 votes

Also, bring back the tribunal. I loved being a part of the process, and it actually felt like people were getting punished for once. We're getting punished for defending ourselves yet the people actually causing the offence go on like nothing happened. I'm not a model player, I get tilted, I get flamed and flame back. But the tribunal made me feel like at least some people were getting justice. Kayle

DBS RonovonOct 22, 20191 votes

Does this make the game more fun?

Yes or no?

If the answer isn't yes, then it is no, and its a bad idea.

TerrimOct 22, 20191 votes

yes it does, because I won't have to waste 20 mins of a game with a guy trying to ruin my fun.

Kind of a silly question don't you think?

DBS RonovonOct 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

yes it does, because I won't have to waste 20 mins of a game with a guy trying to ruin my fun.

Kind of a silly question don't you think?

You won't have to waste 20 minutes ever again? No one else will ever try to ruin your fun? Are you sure?

TerrimOct 23, 20191 votes

so because you can't catch everyone you shouldn't try to catch anyone?

ModPrandineOct 22, 20191 votes

In regards to mastery level, that's not a good indicator of champion skill since it only indicates how much a person has played said champ. Other people have already talked about idea 1, so I'll just say that there's a reason these ideas haven't been implemented; because they aren't effective or guaranteed tools at tackling or deterring trolls.

DBS RonovonOct 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

In regards to mastery level, that's not a good indicator of champion skill since it only indicates how much a person has played said champ. Other people have already talked about idea 1, so I'll just say that there's a reason these haven't been implemented; because they aren't effective or guaranteed tools at tackling trolls.

you can say that again.

TerrimOct 23, 20191 votes

I will 100% concede the mastery level requirements, it was a thought that after some discussion doesn't hold any weight. But I'm failing to see how increasing the level wouldn't be effective. This is however under the assumption that riot is doing anything about trolls to begin with. Could you elaborate at all? Is there any suggestions out there that are better? Do you have any suggestions? These boards are a lot of naysayers without anyone actually offering anything.

ModPrandineOct 23, 2019

{quoted}

I will 100% concede the mastery level requirements, it was a thought that after some discussion doesn't hold any weight. But I'm failing to see how increasing the level wouldn't be effective. This is however under the assumption that riot is doing anything about trolls to begin with. Could you elaborate at all? Is there any suggestions out there that are better? Do you have any suggestions? These boards are a lot of naysayers without anyone actually offering anything.

Trolls do get banned (14-day first offense), but a better job needs to be done at reliably detecting and proving beyond a reasonable doubt that they were intentionally trolling and punishing them quicker and more consistently than what's currently done. That's something everyone (besides the trolls themselves of course) can agree on. For the level requirement, the main problems I see with it are as followed:

Not everyone plays ranked mode, myself included. Using me as an example (and for the sake of argument) if I wanted to troll or grief games then I could just go to any other mode that wasn't ranked and didn't have a level requirement, such as normal or co-op vs. ai and do it there.
XP boosts exist, meaning if someone truly wanted to get into ranked to troll as soon as possible then they could technically just buy a bunch of XP boosts and play games in other modes until they hit the required level and be done with it. At the end of the day it would just be delaying the inevitable only.
For the people who legitimately enjoy playing ranked without intentionally trying to screw over others the grind to get there would just feel like a tedious slog playing other modes that they don't enjoy as much.

So yes while Riot does need to do better than they do now at catching and punishing trolls a level gate for ranked is no the solution as it's just an unnecessary burden for no real benefit as far as I can tell.

As far as suggestions the only one I can think of off the top of my head is for Riot to do their wave bans more consistently than they do now. I don't know when they do them, and I know they ban in waves to prevent people like trolls and botters from reliably figuring out their detection methods, but doing it more consistently and sooner I think would be more helpful in the long run.