Boards›Player Behavior

Extend IFS to prevent abuse

Quoupurn··2 votes·1,197 views

Hi, I have noticed the banning system seems to be getting out of hand recently and it is not for the better. The effects I am seeing on the community are the following:

  • Players try to avoid chatting
  • Players seem to try to contain themselves over frustration (that is built up over the current experience) and tilt more often resulting in afk/undetected trolling

When they tilt there are two types of players 1 players not familiar with avoiding bans which get banned and 2 players familiar with avoiding bans. These players for example tilted at another player for not helping in jungle invade and they died or simply mad at someone for perfectly normal play (I assume not playing well in such players subjective opinion is not banable). What I have observed is often these ban avoidance experienced players will start to tale actions to "revenge" by banning other players. How do they do it? They will go to another guys lane, take their CS, follow them on the map and smite/lasthit their buffs, play in a way to kill the teammate (for example engaging and being saved and run from the sure-win save and effectively kill their saviour, run from sure-win fights trades, there truly are many ways to grief a player into dying).

Usually the avove methods are enough to get the player who would not have been banned be baited into saying sthg banable. It is quite easy to do it. If the player stays chill they will get the player killed and say "garen please stop dying" knowing well they cause that player with 100 percent intention to die. This type of hard ingame revenge griefing is impossible to be detected. It is an abuse of the IFS and bans the wrong player. I see this behaviour more and more.

Possible solution: -Any report is a report to both the reported player and the reportER. -Enemy reports will get discarded if the player didn't talk in all chat. -If a player consistently reports ther the majority of players in the games they play say > on average over 50% of players in 100 games they permanently lose the ability to report (reports are discarded by the system) -If a player got successful bans in the majority of games they played say 5 bans over the course of 10 games they will be flagged for review of ban baiting ifs abusing. This will be a manual review of all of the 10 games where the player reported someone including both sides of a chat from a person familiar with the game (so if a player says "wtf why u follow me n steal my cs/buffs) they understand the context. Check for passive aggressiveness like sarcastic gj (known if the other player throws insults in return to their gj or gg wp). And if it seems lile the person is aggravating players they will be getting a permanent ban.

This is just a rough idea. Or if its too much to handle just add an option to disable chat/pings without having to /mute all every game.

Also I don't want to hear "so u are toxic and want to avoid bans" as that is boring. What I want is that just like real life if someone does stuff to make another player frustrated and intentionally tries to tilt them the CAUSE is adressed not the result. I see this abuse as being punched in the face. And for me punching back is self defense.

I should be able to enjoy my game without being griefed as I am not buddha who can calmly say "oh so you made me feel horrible and I am knowingly getting humiliated by you while you grin because you will know you can't get banned because you are smart and understand the ban system, even though I feel like u banged my sis infront of my eyes dw I'll contain myself and just mute you and let you smite my buffs and you continue next game"

Honestly what is so frustrating is that these players will not stop they do it the whole game until you tilt or go afk which both is punishable. The only way to not get banned is to quietly play the game and continue to be abused during the whole duration of the game like obvious baron calls being ignored with 100% intention simply to tilt the guy. If i start making videos I am sure I can make a big collection of proof for my statements but I believe players of league will recognize this behaviour. I only recently realized what these ban abusers are doing after thinking in the shower over why I keep experiencing players who adress me over and over (seemingly trying to get me to react to them) even tho I haven't said anything to them. These players aim to revenge ban someone they blame for their deaths after tilting or simply out of enjoyment to harm others.

8 Comments

ModThe Djinn2 votes

{quoted}- Players try to avoid chatting

  • Players seem to try to contain themselves over frustration (that is built up over the current experience) and tilt more often resulting in afk/undetected trolling

I've personally seen the opposite of both of these, but that could be differing personal experiences. Either way, I'm sorry you've run into that.

-Any report is a report to all players. All players including the reported will get reviewed.

While this seems like a great solution, it actually hurts the system's ability to learn and adapt. See, the system considers anything NOT reported to be acceptable, and learns the community's values from that. If we all started reporting everyone who said, say, "they're at Dragon" the system would likely start to consider that to be problematic behavior.

I know that seems risky, but with the level of big data League uses it's actually really hard to get the system to register a false positive, but it CAN learn from things everyone in the community agrees are problems.

-If a player consistently makes at least one report for the majority of the games they play say >50 percent in 100 games they permanently lose the ability to report (reports are discarded by the system)

Statistically, someone out there is a poor guy who DOES get a toxic player that often. :(

Modi2 votes

-Any report is a report to all players. All players including the reported will get reviewed

And if you say something in a premade group of 5, that, while unacceptable in general, was not deemed unacceptable by your team, you get punished for it? While I do not condone such behavior, it is up to each player to decide whether or not the chat is acceptable or not. I would say no to this.

-Enemy reports will get discarded if the player didn't talk in all chat.

I believe this was already implemented, but Riot can correct me if I am wrong. You can only be punished for what the reporting person can see. If not, this is definitely needing to be added

-If a player consistently makes at least one report for the majority of the games they play say >50 percent in 100 games they permanently lose the ability to report (reports are discarded by the system)

Unequivocally, no.

-If a player got successful bans in the majority of games they played say 5 bans over the course of 10 games they will be flagged for review of ban baiting ifs abusing. This will be a manual review of all of the 10 games where the player reported someone including both sides of a chat from a person familiar with the game (so if a player says "wtf why u follow me n steal my cs/buffs) they understand the context. Check for passive aggressiveness like sarcastic gj (known if the other player throws insults in return to their gj or gg wp). And if it seems lile the person is aggravating players they will be getting a permanent ban.

Also, no. Absolutely not.

Honestly what is so frustrating is that these players will not stop they do it the whole game until you tilt or go afk which both is punishable.

Both of these, in my experience, do not end the toxicity of others. In fact, these are the two worst things to do, and tend to inflame the issue.

Quoupurn1 votes

Hi,

  1. Change it to not all players but the reportER and the reportED. I am trying to think of solutions for the consequenceless combination of undetected griefing/ban abusing.

  2. My point is that the IFS idea is not to remove players who are seen as non-desirable by a majority of players. So it would make sense to also do something about players who have a problem with a majority of players (ratios can be tweaked however makes sense, don't think much about my numbers).

  3. I am trying to say if a person is directly responsible for banning an unusually large amount of players they should not be punished but manually investigated. Why would you think that is a bad idea? If you search around these forums and reddit you will know that such undetected ban abusers are banning thousands of players intentionally ban baiting them.

  4. Exactly there is currently no solution except to continue being harassed over the course of 20-50 minutes by undetected griefers. As ban baiting and reporting is riskless and consequenceless.

My main point is not about toxic behaviour but about undetected ban baiting and ingame griefing as I stated players killing mates to revenge for dying in jungle, players following others and smiting/lastitting whatever they are doing over the course of the whole game. Players saying "gj" "wp" "nice build" whenever a specific player dies. Players forcing players to die and then say "report X for inting". It happens I see it every few games that such a player pops up and tells a mate who fell for his ban baiting and confidently say "I will ban you" "you will be banned"

Very often toxic behavious happens as a result of griefing. And often the players do not even realize they are being tricked into a defendant behaviour where they feel like they have to fight back. This is called social engineering. The attacker can do this without risking himself being banned.

I think we can all agree that if someones intention is to get someone to say sthg IFS will ban they are not playing the game and effectively are griefing.

LeagueOfShade1 votes

Okay:

  1. Reporting ANYONE flags the entire game and lobby for review.
  2. So if I see you doing something I think is wrong, I shouldn't have an option to report it to be investigated because you didn't all chat? no thanks.
  3. Again, already does that.
  4. What? Four punishments is an automatic permanent ban. How does one get more bans after that? I'm lost.

And no, me punching you in the face and you punching back is not self defense, unless you can't leave or I continue. Guess what, you have the option to leave the situation in this game, either muting or when it ends, so nothing is self defense in this game. All players are REQUIRED to follow the Summoner's Code, for no reason are you ever allowed to break it and not get punished. Each player is responsible for their own actions, period.

Quoupurn1 votes

As I have described in detail it is self defense per your definition. I very clearly described that this type of ban avoiding griefer who has the intention of tilting unsuspecting players into triggering IFS by tilting at them will continue to grief them until they get the desired result.

The person who is griefed cannot leave the situation as if they leave they will get reported for afk and even if they stay they will continue to be harassed and in such a situation usually lose. This kind of griefer is usually not even detected by other mates as their griefing is very targeted and aimed at banning a specific player. There is no system exept a replay of the game that can detect this. But I believe a manual review of conversations between the reported and the reporter over multiple games from a person familiar with the game (no contractor) and some thinking can in some cases reveal the intentions of the reporter.

If a single person is banning far larger number of people than the average reporter this is a clear indicator that they have some hand in how things turn out. This is one indicator of griefing. Other indicators could be logging player position (this would have to be more sophisticated).

Chances are if the support is alone on mid pre min 10 for multiple minutes and mid is spampinging back and being followed by that guy theres something wrong.

Yes we agree, all players are required to follow the summoners code. With this I understand ALL. We both are wanting the same things which means that we do not want a number of players that is far greater than toxic players (0.006%? or so) going undetected and continuing to ban large number of people by griefing them into becoming defensive. I am sure that the number of IFS abusers is greater than 0.006% as I see such a player every second to third game where people are calling to report. Very often that person used his social engineering skills to rally up people for negative attitude and losing a game and blaming a person.

IFS abuse is real.

  1. If it is true that the reportER can get banned then the reportED should also receive instant feedback "a player who has reported you has been banned as they were toxic/inting/griefing.

  2. If a person does not use all chat, he shouldnt be able to be reported for toxic language. Of course you can report for AFK, griefing, etc. I am throwing out idea's, logically the details of an extension and evolution of the IFS should be chosen in a way that makes sense.

  3. A great start but I know this is not refined as there are discord server posting screenshots of hundreds of confirmed IFS abuse bans (google for IFS abuse league on forums and reddit).

  4. This is about the person who causes the ban not the person who gets banned. It is about detecting griefers with the intention to trick people into saying IFS trigger words by griefing them the whole game with the intention to tilt them.

LeagueOfShade1 votes

No, its not self defense. Mute and ignore them, simple concept. You have ZERO right to retaliate, period. If you act out for ANY REASON you get banned, as per the summoners code EVERYONE is required to follow. If people can trigger you that easily then do yourself a favour and stop playing.

Quoupurn1 votes

"unless you can't leave or I continue", of course fighting back in defense is self defense. You just stated this very clearly and we do not need to look for definitions of the english language. I am talking about the problem of a not insignificant number of players abusing IFS with the intention to trigger people into saying stuff which the IFS will automatically ban.

It is self-defense and the "summoners code" prohibits self-defense. Alright. Do not see an issue with that. Yet it is human nature and it can be brought out. And this type of griefer intending to ban bait people we can both agree that this is very clearly against the summoners code. Is it positive behaviour to intentionally try to make other players be against the summoners code? Is it positive behaviour to have the intention of making other players feel negative? Is griefing positive? No it is not. Simply mute will not stop the griefing and it will not make the undetected ban avoiding experienced hard griefers detected. Hence we arrive at my original point in a circular fashion. The solution is to try and extend/enhance/improve IFS with factors to flag such people for manual review by persons familiar with the game (not contractors).

My suggestions were to find ways of such experienced IFS abusers who go undetected.

###quote### Also I don't want to hear "so u are toxic and want to avoid bans" as that is boring. ###quote end### I already said that it is not interesting for me to have such off topic comments. I am more interested in ways to improve and extend IFS to remove and detect these players that are bigger in number than detected toxic members (as from my own empiric observation of hundreds and hundreds of games and riots official numbers of banned toxic people).

I want to find ways to remove undetected hard griefers (muting does not stop the griefing, afk is not an option, surrender is not accepted) who are trying to ban people by abusing IFS which we all agree is against the summoners code.

If you are saying that the system is not open for improvement (which I doubt because I think riot for sure does want to improve the system) then it should be removed no? What would be the point of a system that allows a growing number of people actively trying to disrupt gameplay by griefing mates into negativity? I am sure we agree that this issue has to be adressed.

Hyquiem1 votes

I don’t think the ban system is a justice system I think it’s a wardens mind in a computer,

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