So many people complaining and recieving 14 day bans.

Prince Satan·Feb 4, 2016·13 votes·1,888 views

Seeing all of these posts on the forums has really improved my attitude in game. THANK YOU. It is funny watching these people post an essay of like 50 chats through out the game of them calling people idiots and stupid and then complaining about how they don't deserve a ban. My attitude has improved immensely and the motivation I get to be a better summoner to my teammates is extremely strong. If you are having issues raging at your teammates mute all or just take a break from playing. Noone wants you to ruin their game because you are having a 3 year old level hissy fit, the behavior of these people is astounding and I am bewildered as to how ignorant some of these people are. I was two week banned in august last year and didn't receive ranked rewards (finished gold 1) because of it. I haven't been punished since. I have spent so much money on my account that being toxic and getting banned is absolutely not an option. Thank you for motivating me to be a better summoner and I am glad I won't be having you people in my games.

42 Comments

WickedfatesFeb 4, 20165 votes

schadenfreude

AJStarhikerFeb 4, 20164 votes

Glad to see you've turned things around! Keep it up, and remember to have fun.

nerak23Feb 4, 20164 votes

Good for you !! :)

PennsFeb 4, 20164 votes

No one wants intentional feeders or trolls to ruin games, dont be ignorant. "Calling people idiots and stupid" should be justified if you are talking to someone that is 0/13/0 and proceeds to run into enemy towers without doing anything. People like that dont deserve better treatment.

Of course if you are extremely racist or make death threats, you deserve a punishment as well, but calling them idiots or stupid? Wheres the problem with that? This is exactly what (most) people here are complaining about. There are 2 sides to every story, the system only looks at one and judges it.

Prince SatanFeb 4, 20166 votes

If someone is 0/13/0 report them for intentionally feeding, you don't have to call them a stupid idiot. The only thing that's going to do is incriminate yourself to a ban for verbal abuse, just because someone is feeding doesn't justify you to behave poorly in chat. Lowering yourself to those standards isn't going to help you get better at the game. Would you appreciate being called stupid, or an idiot? Probably not. It's a game, it's for fun. Have fun practicing norms and take ranked seriously but don't act like it's a life or death situation because it's not. If someone wants to be a troll let them, report them and move on.

PennsFeb 4, 20163 votes

You dont HAVE TO, but you should have the right to, there is a difference. It is a reason for me to behave poorly in chat. Saying "stupid" or "idiot" doesnt ruin the game for anyone at all, intentionally dying every 30 seconds does ruin the game, for 4-9 people. Im not on their level for calling them an idiot.

The "Golden Rule" aka. "One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated" just doesnt apply because 1) they broke it first and 2) Im never in the situation of an intentional feeder so this rule wouldnt make sense.

ChaoticPineconeFeb 4, 20161 votes

What?

The golden rule makes no reference to allowing horrible treatment if someone else does it first. Its not "One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated - unless they started it (whether intentional or not) in that case you can do whatever you want and youre justified". Retribution isnt justified.

PennsFeb 4, 20162 votes

Yeah how can I call someone that deserves it "stupid"? What a horrible, horrible treatment, right? :D

Cmon now, they broke the rule, they dont care about it, so why would I? Its not like Im telling them to get cancer and die lol

hh the thinkerFeb 4, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Yeah how can I call someone that deserves it "stupid"? What a horrible, horrible treatment, right? :D

Cmon now, they broke the rule, they dont care about it, so why would I? Its not like Im telling them to get cancer and die lol

if you both break the rules, you both get ban. that's up to you. two wrongs don't make a right.

PennsFeb 4, 20161 votes

Like I said, thats ignorant. Ignoring context because the system cant do better is stupid...

hh the thinkerFeb 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Like I said, thats ignorant. Ignoring context because the system cant do better is stupid...

if someone calls you stupid, they get punished, but if you call them stupid back, that's just as bad and you also get punished. it's very clear and simple.

let me use real world examples. someone beats you and the police go out looking for them. you end up finding them first and beat them up. the police ends up arresting both of you for assault. it's not self defense since it doesn't defend yourself, it's just retaliation.

PennsFeb 4, 20162 votes

Intentionally ruining a game isnt the same offense as calling someone stupid lol.

This is just comparing apples to oranges, what is self defense and what is retaliation in a 20-40 minute game? When are you in danger to justify "self defense"? Never? Calling someone that just wasted the time and effort of 4 or 9 people "stupid" or "idiot" is justified, thats common sense. Especially in an online game that isnt made for 6 year olds anyway.

hh the thinkerFeb 4, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Intentionally ruining a game isnt the same offense as calling someone stupid lol.

This is just comparing apples to oranges, what is self defense and what is retaliation in a 20-40 minute game? When are you in danger to justify "self defense"? Never? Calling someone that just wasted the time and effort of 4 or 9 people "stupid" or "idiot" is justified, thats common sense. Especially in an online game that isnt made for 6 year olds anyway.

someone breaks into your place, breaks some things and leaves. you follow them and beat them up. i guess that's a closer example to what you are looking for, but you still get arrested for it.

when you are calling someone stupid, it's an attack. it's not meant to be nice and does nothing to actually help you. it's not defence, it's an attack. when you attack someone else, you get punished.

PennsFeb 4, 20162 votes

No, your example would be like adding someone after he was trolling and then "calling him stupid".

Beating someone up while breaking into your house is certainly legal. In fact, I think you could even justify killing him with self defense because you didnt want to risk dying but dont quote me on that lol.

hh the thinkerFeb 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

No, your example would be like adding someone after he was trolling and then "calling him stupid".

Beating someone up while breaking into your house is certainly legal. In fact, I think you could even justify killing him with self defense because you didnt want to risk dying but dont quote me on that lol.

what they did happened, i meant the part where they leave since the damage is done, and then you go out and find him afterwards. the society makes laws and punishes people on breaking them. in this society, calling someone stupid is punishable either way.

The UnbangableFeb 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=hh the thinker,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1hOYM1ha,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-04T21:22:30.033+0000)

what they did happened, i meant the part where they leave since the damage is done, and then you go out and find him afterwards. the society makes laws and punishes people on breaking them. in this society, calling someone stupid is punishable either way.

I like your example. That's a great example! But the "you're both gonna be banned" rule applies if someone was abusing you and you defended yourself. I think that's the only time we should throw that rule out since that is not retaliation but defending yourself against abuse.

hh the thinkerFeb 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Unbangable,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1hOYM1ha,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-04T22:21:45.798+0000)

I like your example. That's a great example! But the "you're both gonna be banned" rule applies if someone was abusing you and you defended yourself. I think that's the only time we should throw that rule out since that is not retaliation but defending yourself against abuse.

i know what you mean, but calling someone stupid doesn't help you out. you could also "defend" yourself without being rude, but even then, i don't see how it will actually help you.

sometimes you can calm someone down and get them to refocus, but that's not defending yourself as much as it is being understanding and trying to get them to play.

if you mean they say something you don't like, really not much you can do to make them regret it other than just report them. insulting them back doesn't teach them or stop them in the future.

even people who get perma ban haven't always learned or understood why, so trying to teach and make them understand in the middle of a game is mostly a waste of time, unless they are open to it.

ChaoticPineconeFeb 5, 20161 votes

Lol. I have no idea what kind of law you studied.

In most (all) of the United States, its not legal unless it wasnt just "breaking into your house" and instead was "breaking in your house and made significant steps to kill you or cause serious bodily injury". In most states, its "breaking into your house and made significant steps to kill you or cause serious bodily injury and you didnt have an option to run away." Its NOT legal to beat someone up that broke into your house. It is NOT legal to kill them.

Now, whether you will be punished is a different story, since many people do illegal things and dont get punished.

SurgespaceFeb 5, 20161 votes

I never once mentioned breaking into someone else's house, however what I did mention is that you definitely have a defense case if you are aggravated into assault. That was my only point. As for breaking into the house, it's different from state to state/country to country.

I also gave some vary vague examples which you can look up yourself if you'd like

ChaoticPineconeFeb 5, 20161 votes

I wasnt responding to you, as I dont even know where your post is.

I was responding to

{quoted}

Beating someone up while breaking into your house is certainly legal. In fact, I think you could even justify killing him with self defense because you didnt want to risk dying but dont quote me on that lol.

who did mention breaking into someone elses house. And if you say its different state to state and country to country, can you give me a state that has a law that says you can assault someone that breaks into your house and poses no danger to yourself? (Hint - you cant). Breaking into your house doesnt allow you to use force in defense. Being in danger does.

SurgespaceFeb 5, 20161 votes

Texas. In Texas it is legal to protect properly with lethal force. In addition you can also protect your neighbors property with lethal force

If you read section 9.31

"A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect the property of a third person if he reasonably believes he would be justified to use similar force to protect his own property, and he reasonably believes that there existed an attempt or actual commission of the crime of theft or criminal mischief"

"A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect his property to the degree he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, theft during the nighttime or criminal mischief during the nighttime, and he reasonably believes that the property cannot be protected by any other means."

"A person is justified in using deadly force against another to pervent the other who is fleeing after committing burglary, robbery, or theft during the nighttime, from escaping with the property and he reasonable believes that the property cannot be recovered by any other means; or, the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the property would expose him or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury. (Nighttime is defined as the period 30 minutes after sunset until 30 minutes before sunrise.)"

"In fact, Sec 9.31(a) [of the Penal Code] expressly provides that a person is justified in using deadly force against another when and to the degree he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary."

All things considered, we are getting very off topic, however the fact remains the same. Laws in real life take into consideration context in every degree of law, even first degree offences, where as in League it does not.

My suggestion: When someone is punished by Tribunal, implement an algorithm that skims the entire games logs and find if there was another perpetrator who deserves to be punished, reported or not. Difficult to do but i'm sure with 100 certainty Riot would be able to do this, as this is exactly what the old Tribunal served as.

ChaoticPineconeFeb 5, 20161 votes

From what i can gather, Texas is the exception. And lets interpret that statue:

"imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, theft during the nighttime or criminal mischief during the nighttime" - so mere presence on your property doesnt count.

"he reasonably believes that the property cannot be protected by any other means". So if you can protect your property without violence, then you arent justified.

"To the degree he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary". So if a reasonable person believes that the degree of violence isnt necessary to stop a crime, you arent justified either.

EDIT - i still maintain my position that breaking into your house doesnt allow you to use force. Being in danger does.

EDIT2 - and Texas is the exception in the courts, not the statue. They seem to presume "danger". But that doesnt mean the action was legal or not. It means that it hardly goes punished.

We werent discussing whether or not there was another perpetrator who deserves to be punished, reported or not. We were discussing whether or not the first perpetrator who was caught - the one who responded to intentional feeding in the game - was justified.

SurgespaceFeb 5, 20161 votes

Absolutely the perpetrator action was justified, however let me reiterate my original suggestion

PennsFeb 5, 20161 votes

Killing that guy without him showing any intent to kill you before would probably be a bit overkill, but no one will punish you for beating someone up that broke into your house. Thats why context and common sense matters and this system is too one dimensional.

ChaoticPineconeFeb 5, 20161 votes

Thats exactly what i said - whether you will be punished is a different story. But not being punished doesnt mean its legal.

PennsFeb 5, 20161 votes

No one will punish you because its not illegal. Why would it be illegal to beat someone up that broke into your house? If you feel threatened, you should be able to easily justify it...

SacklarFeb 4, 20161 votes

Really? I mean u got a champ at top that has feed top 3 kills n then they dive turret to get a kill gets ganked by jungle no wards n u really expect Peaple to pat him on the shoulder n say it's OK baby just do better.... there is a time for being nice n there is a time to say ....U Moron ;) To many bleeding hearts nowadays somtimes u got man up n either take thrashing or give one by god.

ChaoticPineconeFeb 5, 20161 votes

Youre the one who stated the golden rule, and it does not help your position. The golden rule is the pinnacle rule AGAINST retribution.

DrinkMoreWhiskeyFeb 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You dont HAVE TO, but you should have the right to, there is a difference. It is a reason for me to behave poorly in chat. Saying "stupid" or "idiot" doesnt ruin the game for anyone at all, intentionally dying every 30 seconds does ruin the game, for 4-9 people. Im not on their level for calling them an idiot.

The "Golden Rule" aka. "One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated" just doesnt apply because 1) they broke it first and 2) Im never in the situation of an intentional feeder so this rule wouldnt make sense.

I mean what exactly do you think you're accomplishing lol

PennsFeb 4, 20162 votes

Its called discussing... Sadly I realized that its impossible to do on this board since most people are hypocritical and ignorant lol.

SurgespaceFeb 5, 20163 votes

I think the point Penn is making is that trollers have all the power right now. I've had a game where I had to sit quietly and not AFK (fear of Leavebuster) while my top lane walked into the tower 0-17 times in a row. For no reason whatsoever.

I submitted a ticket to Riot, and they did nothing at all. Literally zero consequences. If anyone wants proof tell me I'll show it all.

However calling someone "stupid" for acting stupid is bannable? Please.

Penn is right in many ways. The logic does not add up, our laws in real life are extremely circumstantial and is not comparable to League. Never ever ever in real life Law (something I know a lot about) is evidence given without context.

Did you know there is actually a precedent case where a guy got away with murdering his wife over the defence stance of her "constantly nagging him" that took him to the point of aggravated assault?

Or that Ethan Jones killed 4 people in a car crash and used him "being too rich to understand what is right from wrong (affluenza)" to get him out of jail?

Our laws in real life are extremely circumstantial and NEVER without precedent or context. So why does League do the opposite?

THAT is what Penn is saying

Telephone BoothFeb 5, 20162 votes

{quoted}

No one wants intentional feeders or trolls to ruin games, dont be ignorant. "Calling people idiots and stupid" should be justified if you are talking to someone that is 0/13/0 and proceeds to run into enemy towers without doing anything. People like that dont deserve better treatment.

Of course if you are extremely racist or make death threats, you deserve a punishment as well, but calling them idiots or stupid? Wheres the problem with that? This is exactly what (most) people here are complaining about. There are 2 sides to every story, the system only looks at one and judges it.

Thing is, I've been called a feeder and an idiot for dying twice by the 10 minute mark. Ya that's not good, but I'm not an idiot for getting outplayed. So the line becomes, at what point is it ok? And who's opinion do we go by? It's too blurry, so u have to punish anyone who insults other players

nerak23Feb 5, 20162 votes

No one will punish you because its not illegal. Why would it be illegal to beat someone up that broke into your house? If you feel threatened, you should be able to easily justify it...

I'm not sure why you keep following this train of thought, it is way off of what OP started in the opening of this thread.

However, to clear things up for you in my state anyway: One is only allowed to use Justifiable force to defend oneself...so in other words If someone punches me I may punch them back but I may not be able to beat the crap out of them and put them in the hospital, if I do I might now liable for both criminally and financially.

TL:DR-- But THIS has nothing to do with League !! What is so hard to understand, Please Stop trying to defend a toxic jerk action by deflecting what this thread is about. League is not bound by the same set of laws you keep arguing about. And your wrong about it in my state. Give it up, friend.

nerak23Feb 5, 20161 votes

Our laws in real life are extremely circumstantial and NEVER without precedent or context. So why does League do the opposite?

Because they are a private company ! As a such they choice do what the majority of their player base wants Most people don't want to read insults in chat it really is that simple.

As far as your feeder goes, they are working on this also. It's harder to prove. Besides which Telephone Booth has a point what one person considers feeding could be a player having a bad game or connection problems.

At any rate I agree with OP, I realize you don't so that your choice but the punishment system will probably add more things to the list then they take away. So all the people who believe it is their right to be a jerk are going to need to buck up.

SurgespaceFeb 5, 20162 votes

http://imgur.com/42gtYnn

Looks like a pretty open and shut case to me. 2 weeks later and still nothing done to his account. He even took the liberty to add me and laugh at the fact nothing happened to him.

How's that for justice.

nerak23Feb 5, 20161 votes

Looks like a pretty open and shut case to me. 2 weeks later and still nothing done to his account. He even took the liberty to add me and laugh at the fact nothing happened to him.

How's that for justice.

OMG-- I have to say that it does look like an intentional thing LOL ...Sorry friend for this happening to you.

But, just like with toxic games the person has to be caught in more then one and as you only have a screen-shot I really don't know what happened, I don't have assess to that information ( It sure does look pretty damning though) I did say it was harder to prove thus takes longer to punish.

What I am trying to impart to you is League has it's rules and by bringing up laws aren't going to change it because being a private company it has to protect it's best interests. Anyway have a up-vote for your post from me ;)

SurgespaceFeb 5, 20161 votes

I agree it's a private company and they can do what they want.

I'm just suggesting they take advice from the Laws that have ruled civilization for the last couple millenniums and actually implement a system that looks at both sides of the coin

That's all I was getting at

ButtheCatCameBakFeb 5, 20161 votes

Frankly I don't care what people post here about what bans they got. What I DO care about is some sort of feedback to let me know that SOMEONE I've reported has gotten some sort of punishment so I know that reports actually DO something other than blow smoke up an automated system's ass.

Prince SatanFeb 5, 20161 votes

The system does work, I haven't submitted a ticket ever but I assure you that Rito punishes bad behavior. A plat 3 gangplank in one of my normals a few days was being extremely abusive and using racial profanities while simultaneously putting every single person on our team down. He said the n word I think one time which obviously I reported him for. About three minutes later I got a notification that popped up like when you rank up a tier and it said something like "Thank you, a negative player has been punished by the tribunal thanks to your feedback". I've been keeping tabs on his match history and he hasn't played a game since so I am assuming he was either two week banned or perma banned. Did you report him after game or did you send a ticket? Tickets might take a little more time then actual reports. I'm not exactly sure how the system works but it definitely works my friend.

ButtheCatCameBakFeb 5, 20161 votes

That is certainly good to hear and I hope that Riot continues to implement such systems because from Season 3 on I've seen the game become worse and worse. Does this suddenly mean I trust Riot and it's systems? No, as I've seen far too many examples of poor professionalism and a lack of understanding the fundamental issues with the game's community.