My CC will do chargebacks on any purchases in the last 6 months with no questions asked. Now that I am permabanned, is there any reason why I shouldn't get my approx. 500$ in RP purchases refunded? What can Riot do ? The account is already banned.
EvilDustMan14 votesYou can try. People seem to have success, but there's always the loom threat of fraud.
Also it makes you a liar and a cheat.
Magical Player5 votesSue you for fraud charges http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/legal/termsofuse#warranty-disclaimer
feel free to read the terms of use you agreed to several times
ANY APPLICABLE FEES AND OTHER CHARGES FOR FEE-BASED SERVICES (INCLUDING RIOT POINTS) ARE PAYABLE IN ADVANCE AND AREN’T REFUNDABLE IN WHOLE OR IN PART. YOU’RE FULLY LIABLE FOR ALL CHARGES TO YOUR ACCOUNT, INCLUDING ANY UNAUTHORIZED CHARGES.
Graveh1 votesIt's effectively defective merchandise at this point.
Magical Player6 votesIt's effectively defective merchandise at this point.
You made it defective not riot by getting banned the account is not yours either if riot shuts down league tomorrow no account holder will get anything from them because riot owns the accounts not the user
EndlessSorcerer6 votesYou don't own it.
You are paying Riot for the right to use their content so long as you abide by their terms of service,
Rather than a defective purchase, it is closer to having your gym membership revoked for harassing other members or violating the agreement.
Graveh1 votesI am going to consult a consumer rights lawyer first; that said I'm not in America either. Unsure how cross border disputes would work.
Graveh1 votesIn my country if a gym membership is revoked you are entitled to your money back (pro-rated for the time used).
Magical Player3 votesIn my country if a gym membership is revoked you are entitled to your money back (pro-rated for the time used).
the purchase was used upon purchase there is nothing to prorate
again its up to you to request the charge back or not in my opinion if you do so you will be committing fraud
AeroWaffle4 votesI don't think Riot would go out of their way to sue you (unless you constantly did this). But it certainly isn't defective merchandise.
When you start the game, in the terms you agree that any RP you buy is non-refundable and the instant you see that your account has received RP, you have spent your money and received your product in exchange. Losing access to your account because Riot believes you to have broken the terms is not causing the RP to be defective.
deoje2994 votesThere was nothing wrong with the merchandise, You were forced to stop using it due to your actions.
MysterQ1 votesYou are not getting the same service you agreed upon. You paid for X and now it is taken away.
Granted they can argue you broke the ToS contract. But maybe you can argue you still paid for said items and deserve what you paid for.
Graveh1 votesI am going to consult a consumer rights lawyer first to be on the safe side.
Magical Player2 votesI am going to consult a consumer rights lawyer first to be on the safe side.
Be sure to read the terms of use you signed No lawyers! will be handled in any of these cases it will be done by 3rd party riot will pay for the majority of fees but you will still have to pay the filing fee http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/legal/termsofuse#warranty-disclaimer Just a heads up
Graveh2 votesArbitration clauses are not legal in my country
Magical Player7 votesArbitration clauses are not legal in my country
is fraud?
Graveh2 votesAm not convinced this is fraud. I paid for a service which I no longer have access to which is on the list of things I can chargeback for. This is why I will consult a consumer rights lawyer familiar with how these things work in my country :D. If he tells me to drop it I will drop it. If he tells me I'm within my rights well, I will do the chargeback.
DrCyanide2 votesWell, at least you're consulting someone first. Just keep the lawyer's contact information in case anything does go south.
Timethief494 votesso you will chargeback 500 and pay about 2k for the lawyer. totally worth. also you sign the aggreement everytime they update something and when you creat a account. those contracts are valid in basicly every country
SavageConcordia1 votesWhich country are you in?
Magical Player6 votesYou are not getting the same service you agreed upon. You paid for X and now it is taken away.
Granted they can argue you broke the ToS contract. But maybe you can argue you still paid for said items and deserve what you paid for.
You paid for goods or services those services were rendered onto your account that account was banned by you the user the goods and services were still rendered you just received a ban because of user input
MysterQ1 votesBut I can no longer access my rendered goods.
It is pretty deceptive if a business did. A. You can get this car leased out to you. B. By the way want to buy these tires, they are yours. C. Oh, we are taking your car back. Those tires that are yours, well they are on our car, so we are taking those too.
No you should get to keep your tires. You rightfully purchased them in a separate agreement.
Of course, Riot is a large company and surely has rules and precedent to say they control all power in negotiations.
Magical Player3 votesBut I can no longer access my rendered goods.
It is pretty deceptive if a business did. A. You can get this car leased out to you. B. By the way want to buy these tires, they are yours. C. Oh, we are taking your car back. Those tires that are yours, well they are on our car, so we are taking those too.
No you should get to keep your tires. You rightfully purchased them in a separate agreement.
Of course, Riot is a large company and surely has rules and precedent to say they control all power in negotiations.
If you buy the tires and include them into the cost of the car then the company who holds the contract for your payments on the car calls to collect you say come collect the car the tires are included in the contract they get the tires with the car.
Now if you got the tires from a 3rd party then they are yours
Riot has no 3rd party sellers you purchased from riot and only riot Everything was applied to your account correctly you then were punished by the rules of the game and lost the privilege of the account You do not get to keep the rights to the accounts items if you lose the account
Feel free to reverse the charges who knows riot may overlook it
MysterQ1 votesI am not into law.
But pretty sure I can buy Riot Points from Wal-Mart. I don't know if that means WM gets anything, but it sounds like they do use other parties also.
The purchase of tires or RP may be from the same company. But they weren't tied to my account contract during purchase as you implied. Now obviously Riot can state they are. Because you have to select which account to put the RP on. But my point was just you aren't getting what is yours anymore. I haven't read the RP contract.
Magical Player2 votesI am not into law.
But pretty sure I can buy Riot Points from Wal-Mart. I don't know if that means WM gets anything, but it sounds like they do use other parties also.
The purchase of tires or RP may be from the same company. But they weren't tied to my account contract during purchase as you implied. Now obviously Riot can state they are. Because you have to select which account to put the RP on. But my point was just you aren't getting what is yours anymore. I haven't read the RP contract.
I can see this working for rp leftover on a banned account, but not on rp spent on an account as endless has mentioned you're buying access not the rights to the material
EndlessSorcerer6 votesYou are paying for access to their content, not ownership, and agreeing to their terms of service.
It would be closer to purchasing a gym membership and having it revoked because you violated the terms of service.
MysterQ1 votesBut if I had protein bars in my locker, I can go grab those. Even if I bought those bars from that gym or not.
TrulyBland5 votesAbsolutely. But if you paid a one-time fee in order to use a special locker, you wouldn't be allowed to go grab that entire locker after your membership has been revoked.
EndlessSorcerer4 votesHowever, you couldn't just walk away with the gym equipment you purchased access of.
They own it, you don't.
Dynikus3 votesMy CC will do chargebacks on any purchases in the last 6 months with no questions asked.
Keep doing it and see how long they don't ask any questions.
Graveh1 votesI've never done one before - it's just part of the service offered by this particular card.
Magical Player4 votesI've never done one before - it's just part of the service offered by this particular card.
Most cards offer similar programs like this, but you did commit to legitimate charges and now are trying to say you didn't actually purchase the material when in fact you did this is considered fraud
Graveh2 votesNo longer having access to something I've purchased is considered a valid reason for a chargeback. Terms of Service don't carry a ton of weight here. Arbitration clauses for example as mentioned above are considered illegal.
Magical Player6 votesNo longer having access to something I've purchased is considered a valid reason for a chargeback. Terms of Service don't carry a ton of weight here. Arbitration clauses for example as mentioned above are considered illegal.
Then by all means send a chargeback If riot games comes after you for fraud you will most likely be found guilty
You ate a sandwich, you can't charge back the deli for selling it to you since you no longer have it you used the product or You can't request a membership to be returned to you because you got kicked out you broke the clubs rules etc
Totalwanabe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Magical Player,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=13xee29u,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-02T03:56:43.259+0000)
Then by all means send a chargeback If riot games comes after you for fraud you will most likely be found guilty
You ate a sandwich, you can't charge back the deli for selling it to you since you no longer have it you used the product or You can't request a membership to be returned to you because you got kicked out you broke the clubs rules etc
in your example it would be more he eat half the sandwich and riot took the other half you still paid for all of it not half it's a very gray zone that's why lawyer exist to screw everyone and be paid for it.
Magical Player5 votesin your example it would be more he eat half the sandwich and riot took the other half you still paid for all of it not half it's a very gray zone that's why lawyer exist to screw everyone and be paid for it.
Except for the fact, that this isn't about leftover rp He spent money on rp transaction 1 inside transaction 2 he spent rp on a digitial product fully owned by the company
Product was given fairly without fail to the purchaser to use under the conditions the account was still viable
account is no longer viable product is now no longer viable user error is responsible for account not riot
Totalwanabe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Magical Player,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=13xee29u,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-02T04:12:56.510+0000)
Except for the fact, that this isn't about leftover rp He spent money on rp transaction 1 inside transaction 2 he spent rp on a digitial product fully owned by the company
Product was given fairly without fail to the purchaser to use under the conditions the account was still viable
account is no longer viable product is now no longer viable user error is responsible for account not riot
not having access to product is the keyword with make the charge legit. what riot would need to do prevent charge back is let player perm ban access to client and everything in it but unable to play the game. which give you access to product. which prevent charge back. some game did that to prevent charge back when game server closed.
Magical Player1 votesnot having access to product is the keyword with make the charge legit. what riot would need to do prevent charge back is let player perm ban access to client and everything in it but unable to play the game. which give you access to product. which prevent charge back. some game did that to prevent charge back when game server closed.
The account is product A the game client is product B riot is a free to play game, banning clients is pointless as people can do workarounds easily banning an account has impact
So you're saying as long as he access his account without playing games he is fine???? This is the same as force closing the client on banned accounts
You can have leftover rp moved over as it hasnt been spent to my knowledge
Totalwanabe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Magical Player,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=13xee29u,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-02T04:22:36.245+0000)
The account is product A the game client is product B riot is a free to play game, banning clients is pointless as people can do workarounds easily banning an account has impact
So you're saying as long as he access his account without playing games he is fine???? This is the same as force closing the client on banned accounts
You can have leftover rp moved over as it hasnt been spent to my knowledge
that's how game do it to prevent charge back hassle. since the player still have access to the product
MysterQ2 votesBut Riot has a very VERY perverse business model then.
What is to stop them (aside from word of mouth) from banning everyone after giving them RP. They can take peoples money indefinitely without any repurcussion according to you.
Magical Player5 votesBut Riot has a very VERY perverse business model then.
What is to stop them (aside from word of mouth) from banning everyone after giving them RP. They can take peoples money indefinitely without any repurcussion according to you.
Who would give riot money or who would play their game if they out right banned everyone? they'd lose their entire business model after that and drive the game into nothing
Please respond to a statement with one text instead of 3+(its my pet peeve)
Riot can not take peoples money people give their money to riot in exchange for rp rp can not be exchanged for real money later you exchanged currency for digital commodities there is no market to exchange it back.
MysterQ1 votesIt is still a very perverse business model that has every right to be questioned legally, if they are allowed to operate as you say. I would be shocked if there is no precedent law against such abuses of power.
Magical Player1 votesIt is still a very perverse business model that has every right to be questioned legally, if they are allowed to operate as you say. I would be shocked if there is no precedent law against such abuses of power.
I do not know their business model I am making guesses at how it should work You signed a contract riot told you to read it inside contract you agreed to alot if you didn't read it thats on you not riot You signed it to play their game they own everything associated to the game you then give them money for currency inside their game to spend in their store I'm done, i've repeated the same info a few different times. If we're not connecting heres that is on me
SavageConcordia1 votesin your example it would be more he eat half the sandwich and riot took the other half
No, it would be like you ordered a few beers at a pub, got in a brawl half way through a beer and the pub threw you out and now you are trying to get your money back for your whole bar tab. There isn't a gray area here.
MysterQ1 votesWhat if I took two bites of my sandwich. Then the store said get out, without my sandwich.
Do you have a black and white answer without knowing anything else.
Magical Player1 votesWhat if I took two bites of my sandwich. Then the store said get out, without my sandwich.
Do you have a black and white answer without knowing anything else.
Guess you get out or stay without further information the situation could be you held up the place a day before the owner recognized you and said get out
Black or white awnser? Hmm hard to say the situation you provided was too blank to get a clear picture request more info please
Hethalean3 votesThink of buying a skin more along the terms of renting it.
You can rent a tux.... but once you have to give it back, can you ask your CC company to give you your money back? You no longer have access to it.
Also can you site either precedent or law/statue/civil code in which arbitration clauses are illegal?
Graveh1 votes"In Canada, consumer protection legislation prohibits mandatory arbitration clauses in some provinces -- Ontario, Alberta and Québec among them. Saskatchewan allows them. In 2011, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled in a BC matter that companies can use them in consumer contracts provided they are properly worded and not prohibited under provincial statute, though in that particular case, a divided court found that the province’s consumer protection law wasn’t explicit enough to enforce the mandatory arbitration clause in a class action involving a cell-phone provider, Telus. The minority took the opposite view, that the law wasn’t explicit in foreclosing the use of arbitration."
Hethalean3 votesLol we have a real winner here. Misbehaves so much he's perma banned after multiple warnings, then wants to commit credit card fraud? Give me your phone number so we can hang out sometime.
scazzman2 voteschargebacks have been done before by banned players, and technically, riot cannot stop you