Warwick Rework

5hindrak·May 7, 2014·19 votes·10,259 views

I heard there was plan to rework Warwick ... is the plan still going to happen?

38 Comments

RiotZenonTheStoicMay 8, 20147 votes

Hi! We have a strong direction on a Warwick kit--he's totally playable and tracking very well internally. However, the kit changes enough that we cannot ship it without new art: new animations, new particle effects, and new sounds. At this point we would be 90% to remaking the champion, and he really needs it. So the new Warwick kit will ship whenever we have the time to give Warwick a full visual update. I would hope that's some time late this year, but no promises.

CupcakeTrapMay 8, 20141 votes

Translation: he must hunt down Soraka to complete his transformation.

Lord Graves IIIMay 8, 20141 votes

Well thats heartbreaking. Keep us updated as news develops. I'm hoping for some running on all fours sprint animations myself.

Also, I wanted to compliment you on your kit design. I'd spent some time myself mocking up rework kits for Warwick and you solved the big flavor issue I ran into. How to build his kit such that it contains no or absolutely minimal slowing effects. After all "Its only fun if they run." Warwick

BorandMay 8, 20142 votes

I've got to tell you, Warwick is my Favorite champion, I've been playing him since s1 and I don't like part of the proposed direction. I won't rant before I get to test it, but if I do get to test it it'll be too late for my feedback to be heard, if negative. If positive, then I'll be glad with the rework, but if negative I won't even get to shape the rework of my favorite champion.

I also want to say next time hold these discussions on the forums and not on Reddit. I find it unacceptable that Riot would share something like this and be gathering feedback off it from a source that doesn't involve their own boards.

Now, what I don't like:

Boomerang dash. Would like it better if I had control over the boomerang effect.
Skillshot ult that can be blocked and roots you.
I play ww as a bruiser, but now I'm incentivized to play him AP tank. Why?
The AoE attack speed was too strong indeed, but the self attack speed didn't have to be scrapped.
CC-lock new WW in a fight and he's lost all his stacks
You communicated his rework. You Didn't GATHER IDEAS about new skills beforehand or ASK PLAYERS WHAT THEY LIKED, (esp. us dedicated players)
If direction is as I believe it is, he has poor itemization options.

What I like:

Strengths cleared up, weaknessess made more clear.
His W is more interesting.
Less mana dependant.
You can now see jungle creeps. Sweet

Hyrum GraffMay 29, 20141 votes

CC-lock new WW in a fight and he's lost all his stacks

Isn't this the point of a tank? That you give the enemy an incentive to focus you, even though it would be better for them to focus the carries? If you're getting CC-locked, your carries are dealing Tons of Damage (TM), unharmed.

BorandMay 29, 20141 votes

Warwicks power as a tank doesn't come from steroids. It comes from the fact that he refills his HP bar while fighting.

In a fight, Malphite has 30% extra armor and 10% extra HP, Nautilus has 300+ 10% extra HP, Mundo has like +80% of his HP, Hecarim heals from the damage he and his allies deal, etc. Warwick though has to actively fight to stay alive.

And to answer your question, as a tank you want to soak damage, not be perma-cc'd or instagib'd. So, while this does provide the opponents with an incentive to fight WW, it doesn't provide WW incentives to fight.

At least these are my thoughts until I get to try him :)

Hyrum GraffMay 29, 20141 votes

I think that's kind of intentional - I seems like warwick with the new kit will have two playstyles:

Full tank. Probably his only "offensive" item will be wits end; this way even if he gets focused hard, he won't be instagib'd.
Full AP - wait for an opening, and 100-0 the enemy squishy.

The "tanky mage ww" won't be effective anymore, because of what you're describing.

Is this bad? I don't think so. It forces WW to make a meaningful decision about his niche (see Morello's recent dev blog).

BorandMay 29, 20141 votes

From what Zenon has mentioned so far, Full Tank/ Tanky mage are the ways you want to go on new WW

Hyrum GraffMay 30, 20142 votes

Good to know - I realized I phrased my post like I was the authority on such things, when really it was just speculation; I've adjusted the wording (a little) accordingly.

dengeniulMay 8, 20146 votes

You could put the kit on PBE for a few days with borrowed particles just to get some feedback.

Firefang WarwickMay 9, 20142 votes

I hope the proposed kit rework that you posted doesn't change much because I absolutely love it! Can't wait to test it when it eventually hits the PBE.

As for the visuals I'm curious on what direction you guys will take him. I'm really hoping to see Warwick transition from a derpy manbeast into something a lot more threatening.

Angry MonsterMay 9, 20141 votes

tracking well like Rengar on release and rework which was broken? Or maybe Gragas and Kassadin ? Or how about Skarner ?

Sry that i do not have faith on this. the track record here has been bad

PtarlorrMay 9, 20143 votes

Yep. Heimy was absolutely terrible. You couldn't do anything with his new skillset. rolls eyes

Grey WolfMay 11, 20141 votes

You mentioned that with the changes to his kit he can leap in with Hamstring, use Howl to terrify your enemy into your arms. Will that work for those of us on the East Coast with out 200 ms pings? Or are you making him into a "skill shot" champion where you need to be on the West Coast to effectively use him?

RiotZenonTheStoicMay 29, 20144 votes

Yep! I built a system where you can press both buttons at once and the server will cast them for you optimally (i.e. cast W when you're at the peak of your E).

That said, remember that the server gets your packets with roughly the same delay, so all you have to do is memorize relative timing (if I press button 2 roughly half a second after button 1 I get what I want.)

GarentheonMay 29, 20142 votes

Have you thought about the kind of wolf sounds he'll make? The growls, snarls and the howls?

Grey WolfMay 29, 20141 votes

That said, remember that the server gets your packets with roughly the same delay, so all you have to do is memorize relative timing (if I press button 2 roughly half a second after button 1 I get what I want.)

For an old fart like myself pushing buttons slowly isn't a problem. Thanks for the feedback.

BorandMay 29, 20141 votes

Mr Stoic, I hope you (have/will) read this ^_^

http://community.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-skins/FJlQ8rRd-warwick-rework?comment=000300020000&comment=00030002

CaptainWednesdayMay 7, 20146 votes

The good folks at Reign of Gaming wrote a nice piece detailing the HIGHLY TENTATIVE rework in progress. You can check it out here.
Just keep in mind that it's not the official rework that will come out, nor is there a date for the release. The rework in the article is one Riot is currently experimenting with. To answer your question, yes Riot is making the rework.

RiotMorelloMay 7, 201416 votes

Thanks for the link to that - correct. Zenon has been working on a Warwick rework in his spare time, but when it will be done and come out it aways off.

I'd love to combine this one with a VU also, since WW looks pretty out-of-date.

Agent KohMay 7, 20141 votes

Yes! Please, If you can, combine it with a VU

Sir ArmaMalumMay 7, 20141 votes

Are there any established directions for a possible VU that you know/heard of? In other words, plans to keep his bits for armor? Making more wolf-like or more werewolf-like?

I can imagine the animators would have a field day with that tentative ult Zenon's got going.

PhoenixSlayer13May 7, 20141 votes

From what I've read, Riot wants to further push the "alchemy" side of his background, since his transformation is a direct result of one of Singed's potions. So probably werewolf with a mix of science-magic.

GeneralissimaMay 8, 20141 votes

Would it be possible to also have new voicing done for his Hyena skin? I feel like cackling or a voice like from the Lion King would work a lot better with the skin, rather than the same gruff wolf-like voice of his normal model.

MM4Y0May 9, 20141 votes

And plenty of other pizza feet VUs?

WV MrShadowMay 29, 20141 votes

can anyone tell me, when will urgot rework?

Angry MonsterMay 8, 20141 votes

I am glad that the rework is a ways off. E pretty much looks useless. Whats the point of gap closing to going back to a starting point. SUPER EFFECTIVE!!

LB better get a rework then cause she can dash forward 2 times and snap back to her starting point at will. (SHE HAS SO MUCH COUNTER PLAY AFTER ALL)

If WW comes out with a kit like this he pretty much will drop of the map again. There is no use in a drain tank going in and out. key word TANK. TANKS DON'T DODGE THEY SOAK!

AbiwonKenabiMay 8, 20142 votes

I actually really liked that aspect of the kit because it worked really well with another change: blood scent detects and reveals big monsters with low health: imagine the counterjungling potential that could present, along with Warwick's innate sustain to help with jungle duels--he could be THE go to counter-jungler. He also can use the new fear ability at the height of his jump, making it impossible to try and smite back. It's obviously not a perfected kit--who knows how it would actually perform in game--but it looks really cool on paper and is an awesome direction for him to go in.

ThalesMay 8, 20142 votes

There is no use in a drain tank going in and out. key word TANK. TANKS DON'T DODGE THEY SOAK!

"Oh man, look at that Blitz hook flying in towards my poor squishy ally! If only there was something I could do to save him. Hey, wow, I don't even have to be Braum to block most skillshots. WW DASH POWERS ACTIVATE!"

This makes it easier to soak damage, because you can do it in multiple places rather than just where you're standing at any given moment. And it's a massive slow so it's good for chasing, and it'll let you steal objectives, and all kinds of other stuff. It's bad at getting from point A to point B faster than you would otherwise, but there's a lot of stuff it does other than that.

Angry MonsterMay 8, 20141 votes

thats no longer soaking but dying quickly. There is a difference.

ThalesMay 8, 20142 votes

Pulling a guy with an AOE fear and a 2.5 second stun into the middle of your team isn't really a good idea. And besides, the skillshot being Blitz hook is tangential to my point, which is that it's good for stuff other than point A -> point B.

Angry MonsterMay 9, 20141 votes

please if u get interrupted the animation is going to be stopped. You are not going to get to continue your previous cmd

ThalesMay 9, 20142 votes

That's correct, but Blitz has still pulled WW, who wants to be in the middle of the opposing team so he can use his point-blank AOE fear... into the middle of his team. Not quite as bad as pulling Amumu, but still not the sort of hook his team is likely to appreciate.

And the details of Blitzhook are irrelevant to the point I have reiterated several times. To whit, that the skill is not designed for transit from point A to point B, and so has a number of other uses instead.

Angry MonsterMay 9, 20141 votes

like telling enemies where to aim skill shots?

ThalesMay 9, 20142 votes

The example in discussion was blocking a skillshot that might otherwise kill an ally.

But if you require a list of its other capabilities...

Allowing quick in-and-out for objective steals
As a powerful AOE slow, with I believe some damage attached
Evading skillshots that would otherwise hit no one
Positioning yourself ahead of fleeing foes to fear them
Scouting
Ability's passive grants you vision of low health enemies and considerable move speed when chasing
Passive grants you vision of low health monsters

What can it not do?

Get you from Point A to Point B permanently by a means faster than walking

Really, it's a fine ability conceptually. Helps him be in position to tank, lets him use his fear to maximum effect, makes him even better at chasing fleeing foes, and makes him stupidly safe at stealing objectives, coupled with his ability to see how low they get. It's not supposed to be a gap closer.

bimbokillermanksMay 8, 20141 votes

The good folks at Reign of Gaming wrote a nice piece detailing the HIGHLY TENTATIVE rework in progress. You can check it out here. Just keep in mind that it's not the official rework that will come out, nor is there a date for the release. The rework in the article is one Riot is currently experimenting with. To answer your question, yes Riot is making the rework. Reply Quote Permalink Report

Morello (NA) - 2 days ago Thanks for the link to that - correct. Zenon has been working on a Warwick rework in his spare time, but when it will be done and come out it aways off. I'd love to combine this one with a VU also, since WW looks pretty out-of-date. Reply Quote Permalink Report

Celirris (NA) - a day ago Would it be possible to also have new voicing done for his Hyena skin? I feel like cackling or a voice like from the Lion King would work a lot better with the skin, rather than the same gruff wolf-like voice of his normal model. Reply Quote Permalink Report

Sir ArmaMalum (NA) - a day ago Are there any established directions for a possible VU that you know/heard of? In other words, plans to keep his bits for armor? Making more wolf-like or more werewolf-like? I can imagine the animators would have a field day with that tentative ult Zenon's got going. Reply Quote Permalink Report

PhoenixSlayer13 (NA) - a day ago From what I've read, Riot wants to further push the "alchemy" side of his background, since his transformation is a direct result of one of Singed's potions. So probably werewolf with a mix of science-magic. Reply Quote Permalink Report

Rudam (NA) - 2 days ago Yes! Please, If you can, combine it with a VU Reply Quote Permalink Report

-3

Kchaosrei (NA) - a day ago I am glad that the rework is a ways off. E pretty much looks useless. Whats the point of gap closing to going back to a starting point. SUPER EFFECTIVE!! LB better get a rework then cause she can dash forward 2 times and snap back to her starting point at will. (SHE HAS SO MUCH COUNTER PLAY AFTER ALL) If WW comes out with a kit like this he pretty much will drop of the map again. There is no use in a drain tank going in and out. key word TANK. TANKS DON'T DODGE THEY SOAK! Reply Quote Permalink Report

Thales (NA) - about 24 hours ago There is no use in a drain tank going in and out. key word TANK. TANKS DON'T DODGE THEY SOAK! "Oh man, look at that Blitz hook flying in towards my poor squishy ally! If only there was something I could do to save him. Hey, wow, I don't even have to be Braum to block most skillshots. WW DASH POWERS ACTIVATE!" This makes it easier to soak damage, because you can do it in multiple places rather than just where you're standing at any given moment. And it's a massive slow so it's good for chasing, and it'll let you steal objectives, and all kinds of other stuff. It's bad at getting from point A to point B faster than you would otherwise, but there's a lot of stuff it does other than that. Reply Quote Permalink Report

Kchaosrei (NA) - about 23 hours ago thats no longer soaking but dying quickly. There is a difference. Reply Quote Permalink Report

Thales (NA) - about 22 hours ago Pulling a guy with an AOE fear and a 2.5 second stun into the middle of your team isn't really a good idea. And besides, the skillshot being Blitz hook is tangential to my point, which is that it's good for stuff other than point A -> point B. Reply Quote Permalink Report

AbiwonKenabi (NA) - about 24 hours ago I actually really liked that aspect of the kit because it worked really well with another change: blood scent detects and reveals big monsters with low health: imagine the counterjungling potential that could present, along with Warwick's innate sustain to help with jungle duels--he could be THE go to counter-jungler. He also can use the new fear ability at the height of his jump, making it impossible to try and smite back. It's obviously not a perfected kit--who knows how it would actually perform in game--but it looks really cool on paper and is an awesome direction for hi