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Karthus VU: Grim Reaper Criticism

Zagnut·5/21/2014, 4:20:59 PM·25 votes·12,598 views

Great feedback everyone! Check the bottom of this first post for huge updates!

FROM: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=970165&d=1400687677

TO: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=970163&d=1400726929

I don't mind that Karthus lost his skull-face as a whole. I'm glad that he has been changed to a far more detailed and advanced appearance. Let me stress that Karthus looks fantastic and I'm excited for what he looks like in the end.

However, I--and I know others--have a huge problem with a specific issue: Why is "GRIM REAPER" (that's what his skin is named) Karthus basically now "generic necromancer-holding-a-scythe" Karthus?

In this current iteration, that scythe doesn’t fit him at all. Additionally, the Grim Reaper is iconic, presented as a skeleton. While other cultures may have their own renditions and portrayals, the overall consensus is certainly not "random mage guy holding a weapon that has nothing to do with his theme".

There may be counters to this argument in the vein of "well Riot's trying to be original or at least subverting the common expectation". In that case, I'd take Karthus sharply dressed in a black suit; full-faced and handsome if it meant a deviation from the "expected" skeleton-ized Grim Reaper.

As it stands, the personification of death is a being of legend, myth, folklore. The design I see there on the left-hand side of Riot's posted VU images could be much better. He lacks character; he lacks the punch that an amazing skin for a veteran League champion should have. I know you guys are capable of making changes that everyone will love. Just look at how amazing your Twitch skin line-up turned out.

I’m not one of those people who want all of Karthus' renditions to be boring and samey...all having the same skull. I prefer what you've done to give him un-life and character. But "Grim Reaper" Karthus sets an expectation--for those who wanted to buy the skin and those who already owned it--and the new design takes that rewarding feeling of "I am playing as Death" and kills it quickly.

I don't believe I'm requesting much; it’s a single (optional) skin that could easily have its splash art altered when viewed by clients of other offending regions. Give the new Karthus these great updates; show the classic skins some love and breathe new life into them. If the skull is such an issue--then why not just remove his face altogether? A faceless wraith, clad in black hood; it has that bone-chilling effect the visual update's skin lacks.

Hell, I'd even be satisfied if he had no face altogether in his Grim Reaper skin. In regards to China's government/culture view of the depiction of skulls, a compromise would be something that looked like this:

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=970200&d=1400693677

I posted over at the General Discussion forum, but wanted to increase visibility (the poll is a nice touch too). What say you?

UPDATE:

For those who feel that I am overly generalizing or pushing my idea of the Grim Reaper wrongfully, I decided to take some countermeasures to support this claim. When I state that the "overall consensus" of the Grim Reaper is a depiction of a hooded/robed skeleton or shadowed figure, I mean just that.

Basically, I've compared the Google image results of "grim reaper" from 6 different Google domains around the world. Turns out, they all show pretty much the same iconic representation of Death (warning huge image, right-click to view larger):

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=970466&d=1400720729

Also, I ensured that I created a sandbox of my OS and configured Mozilla Firefox to be proxied behind each of the 6 domains' IP ranges.

Like to see for yourself? Make sure you're on the right domain for each search and set your proxies up (just for good measure). If you want to be extra certain (like I did) set up a unique sandbox/virtual machine for each time you search on a different domain. The image I put together was after extensive testing and had already spun down my VMs. After all was said and done, I wanted to throw all the domain/proxy searches one tab at a time in a single window for the multiple screenshots.

Riot called this skin "Grim Reaper" Karthus; dark flowing robe, a skull, a scythe, the harvester of souls--Death itself. That's what was in mind when the skin was created. Before any rework, that's what you were playing as. Karthus was very outdated, but that's what the selling point of this skin was. I feel that fighting for something has no purpose if you cannot back it up with facts, and I live accordingly. Thanks everyone!

55 Comments

Ulquiorra9955/21/2014, 5:19:16 PM9 votes

Changing a skin this drastically kinda defeats its purpose. Many people, myself included, bought it because they enjoyed the idea of playing as the Grim Reaper, personification of Death itself.

Go on, Google search images for 'Grim Reaper'. Results won't come even close to this. Might as well rename him into 'Generic scythe-wielding undead mage Karthus' as he is now, because that thing is not even close to a Grim Reaper.

If this passes I'm refunding him for Pentakill Karthus (which looks awesome by the way, GJ Riot).

Bubble Butt Lulu5/21/2014, 4:27:58 PM6 votes

I find it lacking, but who cares what I think. I've been disappointed with the majority of the champion reboots so far.

Two Worlds Too5/21/2014, 6:50:01 PM5 votes

Thumbnails would probably help others see exactly what the changes mean...

Remlap12235/21/2014, 7:36:29 PM5 votes

I like the latter idea of it just being a shroud, much like the Ghost of Christmas Future from a Christmas Carol.

T1gerBl00d275/21/2014, 8:02:43 PM5 votes

I agree, originally I thought it was kind of cool....but then I sat and thought about it. "What is the difference between this and Classic Karthus?" Its just a scythe and a hood. He does not fit the persona of a "Grim Reaper" at all. I think the no-face route is the best idea, because it gives a more creepy and mysterious notion to the skin rather than "Its a skull."

KitsterHyrenMagi5/22/2014, 1:07:11 AM4 votes

I don't like the change to the Grim Reaper. It no longer seems like anything it was when I bought the skin. My interpretation of the Grim Reaper is that it should look like Death personified... Black flowing robes, and where a limb extends from beneath the robe, it is a skeletal limb with no flesh at all. "Castlevania Death" Google searches should feature many such variations, if you switch to Images.

I am in favor of there not being a skull at all, but instead, a dark hood concealing a darker shadow within its' folds... Very similar to the "Compromise" version idea depicted with China's (and other similar governments) in mind.

The scythe needs work, I think. It doesn't look like anything that should be feared. Again, see relevant "Castlevania Death" image search results for inspiration.

Killenea5/21/2014, 10:15:04 PM2 votes

100% AGREE. I posted a thread like this yesterday. When I heard about Karthus VU I got very exited.So far I've been very happy with resent visual updates. I like the new model, but the Grim Reaper skin having fresh is something that needs to be changed. Grim Reaper is my favorite entity, and that was one of the reasons I fell in love with this skin right away. It was one of the first skins I ever bought, and still is my favorite skin in game. But the only thing that says "Grim Reaper" in this new look is his scythe, without it he's just a zombie in a hoodie. This is GRIM REAPER KARTHUS, Riot needs to make him look like one. We must be loud so Riot can't ignore us. If GR skin looked like this from the beginning, I would have never bought it, I feel cheated. And honestly I don't care who gets offended. I want to have a skin I paid for, or they should just remove it completely. I have never been this angry with Riot before. This is censorship, and there is only one thing we say to censorship. NOT TODAY.

Zagnut5/22/2014, 12:20:14 AM2 votes

I'm going to be posting an update where I compare the image results of "grim reaper" from 6 different Google domains around the world. Any people opposing my use of the phrase "overall consensus" will no longer be able to do so.

Give me a minute while I throw this together; thanks all!

Angry Monster5/21/2014, 8:10:38 PM2 votes

So my 2 cents. The op says that no culture has a the Grim Reaper that is mage like/looking. I feel that that statement does not take into account Eastern views. Eastern cultures do not have Death feature as a western view. And they take play on out concept and some times merge into their own.

That said u can still not like the direction of this skin and feel that they are moving away from what expectations would be.

ModUlanopo5/22/2014, 8:04:18 PM2 votes

It was probably intended as a generic skin that could be used in China, where there are restrictions on showing bone.

Zagnut5/27/2014, 1:18:24 AM2 votes

Bummer.

Retsnom5/22/2014, 5:04:59 AM1 votes

Where the HECK is his Necronomicon (not to be confused with item 3165)?! He should have the book of the dead in his new VU!

Ed Getley: We are the things that were and shall be again! Ahahahaha! Spirits of the book! We want what is yours! LIFE! Dead by dawn! Dead by dawn!

Possessed Henrietta: Dead by dawn! Dead by dawn! - Evil Dead II (1987)

PhoenixSlayer135/22/2014, 6:02:05 AM1 votes

All I really want is darker clothing. That would help a lot.

Zaccea5/25/2014, 8:31:20 PM1 votes

I direct your attention to the Supernatural's "Death". http://supernatural.wikia.com/wiki/Death Also see attachment.

Suit? Classy. Cane? Offensive to no one. Full-faced with sunken features? Perfect.

Zagnut5/22/2014, 1:45:56 AM1 votes

Hey everyone,

Updates have been posted on the latter half of my original post. Thanks to everyone for contributing to the topic. It's nice to see people reconsider their approach so we find some common ground to discuss.

MackleDoge5/22/2014, 5:00:22 AM1 votes

In case any of you guys are still checking this (and this is unrelated to this skin specifically):

What do you guys think about the general color scheme that they have taken with Karthus's abilities?

What about the idea of Karthus singing or having special audio effects during his ultimate casting?

Personally, I think the color palette is a bit suiting to who Karthus is but it also seems a bit bland and uninteresting. I also think that it might be interesting to have different audio effects for Karthus's ultimate depending on what skin is being used? What do you guys think?