Boards›Report a Bug

Riot needs to fix this. This is a major problem across lower ELO

Zektrus··18 votes·1,495 views
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/117286771208880137/326060526134099968/unknown.png

Soo 3rd time in series to SILVER 2 . You know how it is people oyu play with dont care or don't play properly and lose your series for you right? What if that is because the people on your team ACTUALLY dont play as good as you because they can't not because they are making mistakes?

Seriously, the picture says it all I lost my game with 2 unranked players and a bronze + 2 silvers (me and a pre) against a Bronze, 2 Silvers(same as my team right? annnnnnnnnnnnd A plat 5 and a Dia 5! Thats fair right? I lost fair and square right? Or am I actually being screwed by the system here? I can beat plats in lane I jsut want to get Plat this season and with this assumingly flawed MMR algorithem I cant even get gold!

EDIT: NO, this isn't a once off. It happens fairly offten, this is just the time where it was MOST extreme. Where Plat and Dia players stop silver's from climbing. It's very apparent here why this game is soo toxic and most of my friends are droping it entierly.

18 Comments

Zielmann6 votes

The reasoning is that it's flex queue. None of those sites that show details of your current match and estimated MMR properly distinguish between solo queue and flex. So while this may appear to be a major matchmaking error, in reality, it's not all that bad (numerically... doesn't stop that there's a large skill gap in the players). Basically, the sites are showing you everybody's current solo queue ranking, even though it's a flex queue game. Solo and flex have completely different rankings and MMR, though.

The plat and diamond players were Gold 5 in flex queue. If you look at flex queue rankings instead of solo queue, the teams were Silver 3, Silver 4, 3x Unranked vs. Bronze 5, Silver 5, Silver 2, 2x Gold 5.

The 3 unranked players are a great example of why Silver 1/2 really, really sucks, though. The default MMR on accounts who haven't played in a given queue is roughly that of Silver 1/2. When you get the unranked players in, it becomes total roulette on what kind of allies you'll get. Maybe you've got the person who is pretty skilled, but just starting to grind flex queue. Or maybe you get the person that's not very experienced and just jumping into ranked for the first time, and they happen to go flex queue. It makes high silver an awful experience in any queue. (I should know, I'm trying to grind back into gold in solo queue and am in S1 right now).

This isn't to say that it's completely justified. There are definitely things that could be done to help make this experience better. For accounts new to ranked, perhaps they could try to estimate a better starting MMR based on the MMR they have in the normal queues. Or if they're placed in one queue, they could use that to adjust their MMR slightly in the other queue if they start to play there.

Nightingales Sky1 votes

{quoted}

The reasoning is that it's flex queue. None of those sites that show details of your current match and estimated MMR properly distinguish between solo queue and flex. So while this may appear to be a major matchmaking error, in reality, it's not all that bad (numerically... doesn't stop that there's a large skill gap in the players). Basically, the sites are showing you everybody's current solo queue ranking, even though it's a flex queue game. Solo and flex have completely different rankings and MMR, though.

The plat and diamond players were Gold 5 in flex queue. If you look at flex queue rankings instead of solo queue, the teams were Silver 3, Silver 4, 3x Unranked vs. Bronze 5, Silver 5, Silver 2, 2x Gold 5.

The 3 unranked players are a great example of why Silver 1/2 really, really sucks, though. The default MMR on accounts who haven't played in a given queue is roughly that of Silver 1/2. When you get the unranked players in, it becomes total roulette on what kind of allies you'll get. Maybe you've got the person who is pretty skilled, but just starting to grind flex queue. Or maybe you get the person that's not very experienced and just jumping into ranked for the first time, and they happen to go flex queue. It makes high silver an awful experience in any queue. (I should know, I'm trying to grind back into gold in solo queue and am in S1 right now).

This isn't to say that it's completely justified. There are definitely things that could be done to help make this experience better. For accounts new to ranked, perhaps they could try to estimate a better starting MMR based on the MMR they have in the normal queues. Or if they're placed in one queue, they could use that to adjust their MMR slightly in the other queue if they start to play there.

I didn't know all of that. It makes more sense now when taking all of that into consideration. Although, I feel that when someone new starts ranked, they should have a zero balance of MMR so as to be grouped others. (This could account for low silver players and high bronze) then after placements, depending on the wins, the player will either get a boost of superficial MMR or negative MMR that will determine the players placement.

In other words. If the play wins 8 out of 10 in his hers placement than the player will get boosted to silver 2 with a superficial MMR boost. Then, once there, they sit on zero again, which yes, would make the climb more damagerous, but the player provided they are good enough to obtain that rank right out the gate, so should be challenged anyways. While a player who loses 8 out of 10 will be given a negative superficial MMR and be sent to bronze 5. However, because the player has a starting balance of zero MMR, it should be easier to climb while still learning.

Zielmann1 votes

They currently have two things in place (that I'm aware of) to try to help with the new-to-the-queue account issue.

  1. Matchmaking does take number of games played in that queue into account, though it's a secondary priority behind MMR. So if you've played a lot of games in a queue, even if you are in that high silver MMR range, it's less likely you'll get a brand new player in your game. Granted, it can still happen as the queues seem to err on the side of getting you into a game sooner than later. This might be more a case of "if two players of similar MMR are available, put the one with fewer games played on the team with the lower average number of games played."

  2. At a lower number of games played, your MMR swings much faster than when you have more games played. So if you do go on a winning streak in your placements, you will have jumped up a good bit from the default MMR, and likely get placed higher as a result. If you go on a losing streak, you'll drop and be placed lower. And even after you're done with placements, winning streaks in those early games will still pull you up pretty fast.

Fisher No Chains6 votes

On my lv 30 smurf (unranked, with something like 120 normals played) I have been placed vs master tier people. I was unranked, had 2 diamond and 2 more unranked in my team, vs 1 master, 3 diamond and 1 unranked ex plat guy.

We still won because I'm not the average unranked lv 30 and I'm smurfing, but what about legit lv 30 people with no experience vs master tier players? How is that even fair?

General Esdeath 6 votes

"Remember, it's nobody's fault but your own that you win/lose a game"

-Riot Game

:^)

Nightingales Sky2 votes

Wow... and it considers both teams MMR so close too... wow. That could actually explain a lot.

singiel3811 votes

Anyways, teams should be selected by division, not mmr IMO. MMR makes matchmaking toxic because even if someone is plat and has low mmr, that player usually has more experiance or skill and prevents lower elo from climbing, while having freelo. If division defines skill, and Riot thinks games should be fair and have players with similiar skill, matchmaking should pick ppl based on div.

Nightingales Sky2 votes

{quoted}

Anyways, teams should be selected by division, not mmr IMO. MMR makes matchmaking toxic because even if someone is plat and has low mmr, that player usually has more experiance or skill and prevents lower elo from climbing. If division defines skill, and Riot thinks games should be fair and have players with similiar skill, matchmaking should pick ppl based on div.

I liked the old system of rank. Before all this tier stuff. When you had to climb the ladder against everyone.

singiel382 votes

I never played in these times so I didn't know that it existed. But I feel it could be massacre.

NineTailedMystic3 votes

I like the game-ified Ranked system instead of "what MMR are you? 2900 what a loser"

Tails90162 votes

I mean, the 100% winrate MasterYi that TheLoLHounds did a video on cheated the system, could probably cheat your idea~~, and duo q op~~

I mean, he is currently reported to be banned

Mr Rontastic2 votes

It's flex, it's not that big of a deal.

Zektrus7 votes

I never said this only happens in flex.

DrCyanide2 votes

Why are you using Solo Queue rankings for a Flex Queue MMR comparison?

Sona - Unranked (Queued with Ashe and Zed) Ashe - Unranked (Queued with Sona and Zed) Zed - Unranked (Queued with Sona and Ashe) Diana - Silver 3 (Queued with Garen) Garen - Silver 4 (Queued with Diana)

VS

Zyra - Silver 2 (solo) Xayah - Gold 5 (queued with Shaco) Jayce - Silver 5 (solo) Shaco - Gold 5 (queued with Xayah) Riven - Unranked at the time, Bronze 5 afterwards (solo)

Riot considers Unranked players Silver for the sake of queueing up, so you've got a team with 5 silvers against a team with 2 silvers, 2 gold 5's, and 1 bronze. The team with the Golds has more Solo players in it, which should work against them.

Nightingales Sky1 votes

[deleted]

DrCyanide4 votes

Without seeing a replay it's harder to say what impact each of the players had on their team. It's pretty clear by the end KDA's that it wasn't a 2 man show though. Every player on the Plat/Diamond team had really good KDA's, with Shaco (the Diamond) contributing the least amount of damage on their team.

If anything, it looks like the team with all the Unranked players got sandbagged by their own incompetence.

  • Sona built item 3003 instead of a item 2049 or item 3303 (they never bought the parts for either)
  • Zed was building towards a item 3153 at the end
  • Only 4 item 2055 were bought the entire game by the team (2 of which were bought by the OP)...

That game showcases why new accounts shouldn't be considered Silver level for matchmaking, but I'd need to see more to judge the Shaco/Xayah and see if they were miss-matched.

General Esdeath 4 votes

"Yeah this guy is the world champion in boxing but I've never seen in him wrestling so he can play against the middle schoolers"

DefNotATroll1 votes

This is flex queue lol

nobody takes flex seriously because of how easy it is to get boosted

More from Report a Bug

Can't hover over friends
Report a Bug236 comments
663
votes
Infinite Loop Client Restart
Report a Bug886 comments
626
votes
patch 5.18 unexpected platform error
Report a Bug425 comments
445
votes
Origin of Master Yi Alpha Bug
Report a Bug176 comments
330
votes
Elise Can Only Rappel to Wolves on Blue Side
Report a Bug47 comments
277
votes
Loading bug
Report a Bug426 comments
274
votes