Me and my friends we noticed that after we win a game we don't earn BE, I search a little bit and i saw a post saying that you earn BE when you level up The problem is how much do i get when i level up and also WHY if i want to buy a champion i need to level up 10 times so i can afford a 6300 champion Please help me Thank you
LostFr0st2 votes[{quoted}](name=XNatsu DragneelX,realm=EUNE,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=p4s7gXO2,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-12-30T17:36:43.938+0000)
Me and my friends we noticed that after we win a game we don't earn BE,
Yes, we don't get BE after every game anymore.
The only exception is the First Win of the Day, which gives 150 50 flat BE.
I search a little bit and i saw a post saying that you earn BE when you level up The problem is how much do i get when i level up
940 BE is the average amount, 810 BE is the minimum drop.
and also WHY if i want to buy a champion i need to level up 10 times so i can afford a 6300 champion
It's roughly the same amount of games as grinding out the ip before. If we get the exact champ shard and upgrade it, it's a bit cheaper.
Please help me Thank you
I hope that helps. [katarina-love]
XNatsu DragneelX1 votesYeah Thanks But even if i level up i don't get BE And in my last level up i got a champion that i don't own and i only have 450 BE This is so stupid (sorry for my language) I hope they fix it and make it like before But Thanks for your help sir Have a nice day and merry xmas
LostFr0st1 votes[{quoted}](name=XNatsu DragneelX,realm=EUNE,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=p4s7gXO2,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-12-30T18:34:51.394+0000)
Yeah Thanks But even if i level up i don't get BE And in my last level up i got a champion that i don't own and i only have 450 BE
We usually get 1-3 champ shards + x amount of BE. The BE goes directly to the BE part so it's hard to remember/check how much we get unless we read the level-up notification.
This is so stupid (sorry for my language)
Nah stupid is fine, it's a frustration thing. I get it.
I hope they fix it and make it like before
it was only exp before. We used to get no BE at all from WotD so 100% needed to wait for a lvl up.
Unless you're talking about current vs iP days; it does shake out as roughly equivalent though since they tweaked it.
But Thanks for your help sir Have a nice day and merry xmas
Same to you, and Happy New Year!
Oxyrotten1 votesUnless you're talking about current vs iP days; it does shake out as roughly equivalent though since they tweaked it.
The problem is they (intentionally) created a system of inflation thus dropping the value of BE. You get similar amounts as IP but the value is much less than IP.
LostFr0st1 votesSince they tweaked the minimum and average BE per level the two are equivalent to most users (I have done the math for multiple users).
but the value is much less than IP.
May I ask how this is the case? They did not change the ip prices, only the units.
The only outlier is maybe Champion Mastery 6/7, which they have decided to wait on adjusting the price of.
Oxyrotten1 votesSince they tweaked the minimum and average BE per level the two are equivalent to most users (I have done the math for multiple users).
May I ask how this is the case? They did not change the ip prices, only the units.
The only outlier is maybe Champion Mastery 6/7, which they have decided to wait on adjusting the price of.
You have much more that your expected to spend it on. IP was used for primarily only champions (runes were cheap and one time cost) and BE was separate (or non existant).
BE is now used for champions, champion shards (mostly useless so considered a sink, not to mention we are expected to disenchant these to make up the cost of lost IP gains), and mastery (a huuuuge sink). Plus champion price adjustment/dropping has been delayed and declined so champions have a higher effective price over time (it's the same marketing ploy as phasing out the cheaper skins).
It's a matter of cost opportunity loss, and an intentional marketing scheme coupled with "loot" rewards that results in encouraging cash sales.
LostFr0st1 votesYou have much more that your expected to spend it on. IP was used for primarily only champions (runes were cheap and one time cost) and BE was separate (or non existant).
I heavily disagree that runes were cheap. Basic runes were price-slashed 2 years ago, and then the price was slashed again just before the season ended so that people could functionally last-minute play ranked. It was not uncommon to spend 50-100k+ on runes/pages.
BE is now used for champions, champion shards (mostly useless so considered a sink, not to mention we are expected to disenchant these to make up the cost of lost IP gains), and mastery (a huuuuge sink).
The only thing we have to use our BE on now is champions. The reason leveling gives the BE in the form of shards is due to them being more useful than raw BE in some cases (they make champ mastery and champ buying cheaper if RNGesus is on our side).
Plus champion price adjustment/dropping has been delayed and declined so champions have a higher effective price over time (it's the same marketing ploy as phasing out the cheaper skins).
Champ price adjustment hasn't changed its pace, the amount of new champs has slowed due to the need for VGUs. I can see how that would be seen as slowing it though, but the VGUs need to be done.
It's a matter of cost opportunity loss, and an intentional marketing scheme coupled with "loot" rewards that results in encouraging cash sales.
Please give a more solid example.
Because other than Champ mastery (which is an optional BE sink that they explicitly stated was a sink) I am having a hard time finding one.
Oxyrotten1 votesI heavily disagree that runes were cheap. Basic runes were price-slashed 2 years ago, and then the price was slashed again just before the season ended so that people could functionally last-minute play ranked. It was not uncommon to spend 50-100k+ on runes/pages.
Page cost was an additional cost sure, but a largely irrelevant cost. Much like mastery is now but to a less extent due to want/demand. And runes being a one time cost for something with multiple (exponential) uses makes the price remain the same but the value of the runes themselves rise. The other thing is they were a functional part of the game which raises their value over aesthetics such as ward skins and mastery emotes. Aside from that, runes were pretty cheap overall in comparison it only took a short time to farm IP for them. As well as their price was much cheaper in comparison to other costs such as champs.
But regardless "cheap" is a relative term and whether or not we consider something cheap does not affect it's value.
The only thing we have to use our BE on now is champions. The reason leveling gives the BE in the form of shards is due to them being more useful than raw BE in some cases (they make champ mastery and champ buying cheaper if RNGesus is on our side).
Have you ever heard the saying the house always wins? Mathematically rng is not on our side, and that's if it was actually Rng but it is not. Riot has lowered the drop rate for shards (do they even release the drop percentages?) as well as the fact that you have to want the shard the drops, which usually we want one specific champ so the chances of that shard dropping are again exponentially decreased.
It's an age old casino trick, people think they are getting a higher value than they actually are. Lootboxes and "loot" rewards in general are exactly that, a casino parlor trick people think they are getting more, but in reality are getting much less, and then it encourages cash sales to make up the difference (without people realizing it).
Champ price adjustment hasn't changed its pace, the amount of new champs has slowed due to the need for VGUs. I can see how that would be seen as slowing it though, but the VGUs need to be done.
Riot released a statement stating that the releases would be slowing down, effectively delaying and slowing the rate at which price changes are made.
Please give a more solid example.
Because other than Champ mastery (which is an optional BE sink that they explicitly stated was a sink) I am having a hard time finding one.
Stating that it is a sink does not change the fact that it is a sink and it's effect on value.
It is a combination of all these things that effect market price. Sure all these things may seem inconsequential and coincidental, but in combination there is no denying the effect that it has on unseen value of BE by lowering it. This is all following the concept of expected value in statistical analysis.
LostFr0st1 votesPage cost was an additional cost sure, but a largely irrelevant cost. Much like mastery is now but to a less extent due to want/demand. And runes being a one time cost for something with multiple (exponential) uses makes the price remain the same but the value of the runes themselves rise. The other thing is they were a functional part of the game which raises their value over aesthetics such as ward skins and mastery emotes. Aside from that, runes were pretty cheap overall in comparison it only took a short time to farm IP for them. As well as their price was much cheaper in comparison to other costs such as champs.
They were 410ip each for base marks/seals/glyphs. 1025 for each quint (AD and AP price reduced to 512). It was 14k for just the average runes for one page, plus the 6300 for any extra pages.
Sure we could just make do with standard AD and AP, but that meant we couldn't Jg or Support effectively since the champs played there needed to be balanced around their standard Att spd marks and Health seals.
But regardless "cheap" is a relative term and whether or not we consider something cheap does not affect it's value.
Have you ever heard the saying the house always wins? Mathematically rng is not on our side, and that's if it was actually Rng but it is not. Riot has lowered the drop rate for shards (do they even release the drop percentages?) as well as the fact that you have to want the shard the drops, which usually we want one specific champ so the chances of that shard dropping are again exponentially decreased.
The shard drops are scaled by level. Closer to 30=less value. Every X levels is a guaranteed high-tier shard, but the Base BE is still equivalent to its iP value.
Whether or not the shard is wanted is irrelevant; I calculated and compared the average base BE value to the equivalent iP gains to reach the level.
It's an age old casino trick, people think they are getting a higher value than they actually are. Lootboxes and "loot" rewards in general are exactly that, a casino parlor trick people think they are getting more, but in reality are getting much less, and then it encourages cash sales to make up the difference (without people realizing it).
Riot released a statement stating that the releases would be slowing down, effectively delaying and slowing the rate at which price changes are made.
That statement was made at least 3 years ago, maybe 4, back when they were releasing a new champ almost every patch. They have since stabilized to 4-5 new champs per year with VGUs between, and have stated that this release cadence is the norm now.
Stating that it is a sink does not change the fact that it is a sink and it's effect on value.
It is a combination of all these things that effect market price. Sure all these things may seem inconsequential and coincidental, but in combination there is no denying the effect that it has on unseen value of BE by lowering it. This is all following the concept of expected value in statistical analysis.
We literally traded runes for champ mastery. That's all that changed. If we received raw BE only every level, the math evens out to the iP gains.
Oxyrotten1 votesThey were 410ip each for base marks/seals/glyphs. 1025 for each quint (AD and AP price reduced to 512). It was 14k for just the average runes for one page, plus the 6300 for any extra pages.
Sure we could just make do with standard AD and AP, but that meant we couldn't Jg or Support effectively since the champs played there needed to be balanced around their standard Att spd marks and Health seals.
Sure but the intrinsical value for runes was still higher than the cost. Just the same as the intrinsic value of BE is lower than their quantity. That's my point. You can have 10 of something but the value isn't necessarily 10 (just example number), in the case of runes you can do more with that 10 than just use it 10 times. In the case of BE because of inflation and lost cost opportunity and expected value, the intrinsical value decreases. Meaning that you still have 10 BE but that 10 BE is worth less than say 10 IP. What we are doing is basically just trading currency. Much like USD, BE and IP have to have a based value. That value is calculated off of not only it's uses but also the demand for those uses.
Runes and pages have greater value because they can be used in more ways and in more combinations thus a greater demand. So you get more for your moneys worth so to say. But BE while having more uses is in a closed market with limited choices, so you get less for your money. IP was the same situation but did not suffer from the drop in value since the market was stable.
The shard drops are scaled by level. Closer to 30=less value. Every X levels is a guaranteed high-tier shard, but the Base BE is still equivalent to its iP value.
It may be equivalent to the IP quantity but the value does not remain the same.
Whether or not the shard is wanted is irrelevant; I calculated and compared the average base BE value to the equivalent iP gains to reach the level.
But it's not irrelevant. It's simple supply/demand. If I want to buy a specific 6300 champ I either need to farm 6300 BE or acquire a specific shard. Riot is trying to give you the impression that the specific shard retains it's value (at discount price) but the truth is it does not. The value of that specific shard goes up, but the equivalent BE value that equals that shard goes down. Only the store price remains the same so the value of the BE itself goes down. On top of that the drop rate of that specific shard is very low, which in turn makes it increasingly more valuable, again lowering the outright value of BE.
Think of it this way, riot switched IP for BE. If that was a fair and even trade then why would they have offered any loot in the first place? They would just be losing profits for the sake of making BE seem more valuable. But no sane business would do that, especially when they don't have to, and since it is not been introduced into the system as an equation. But they did, and why? Because it lowers the value of BE while creating the illusion that it is raising the value of BE. It's not a free market, so it's not a matter of you can do more with it, it's a matter of you have to do more with it. Inflation plain and simple, you lose purchasing value.
That statement was made at least 3 years ago, maybe 4, back when they were releasing a new champ almost every patch. They have since stabilized to 4-5 new champs per year with VGUs between, and have stated that this release cadence is the norm now.
We went from like 16 champs a year to 8 champs a year, then they set a standard (lowered again) for like 5 or 6 a year. Additionally new champ releases have an increased price, again causing inflation. The post came out two days ago, but it does make an ambiguous reference to recently decreasing the rate of champion releases (so that more BE can be accumulated it claims). So it could be referring to 2014 when the first change to 5-6 a year occurred, I don't know.
We literally traded runes for champ mastery. That's all that changed. If we received raw BE only every level, the math evens out to the iP gains.
But the value of BE gains does not even out to IP gains. You can look at it a number of different ways, but any way you look at it we are getting less value and being told it is the same thing. I'm not sure what your referring to with runes for mastery, could you elaborate?
LostFr0st1 votesSure but the intrinsical value for runes was still higher than the cost. Just the same as the intrinsic value of BE is lower than their quantity. That's my point. You can have 10 of something but the value isn't necessarily 10 (just example number), in the case of runes you can do more with that 10 than just use it 10 times. In the case of BE because of inflation and lost cost opportunity and expected value, the intrinsical value decreases. Meaning that you still have 10 BE but that 10 BE is worth less than say 10 IP. What we are doing is basically just trading currency. Much like USD, BE and IP have to have a based value. That value is calculated off of not only it's uses but also the demand for those uses.
Runes and pages have greater value because they can be used in more ways and in more combinations thus a greater demand. So you get more for your moneys worth so to say. But BE while having more uses is in a closed market with limited choices, so you get less for your money. IP was the same situation but did not suffer from the drop in value since the market was stable.
iP was used for:
BE is used for:
Not seeing the "BE having more uses" bit.
It may be equivalent to the IP quantity but the value does not remain the same.
Also not seeing this since the prices of stuff didn't change.
But it's not irrelevant. It's simple supply/demand. If I want to buy a specific 6300 champ I either need to farm 6300 BE or acquire a specific shard. Riot is trying to give you the impression that the specific shard retains it's value (at discount price) but the truth is it does not. The value of that specific shard goes up, but the equivalent BE value that equals that shard goes down. Only the store price remains the same so the value of the BE itself goes down. On top of that the drop rate of that specific shard is very low, which in turn makes it increasingly more valuable, again lowering the outright value of BE.
Even if we don't get the shard, it takes the same number of games to get the currency.
Think of it this way, riot switched IP for BE. If that was a fair and even trade then why would they have offered any loot in the first place? They would just be losing profits for the sake of making BE seem more valuable. But no sane business would do that, especially when they don't have to, and since it is not been introduced into the system as an equation. But they did, and why? Because it lowers the value of BE while creating the illusion that it is raising the value of BE. It's not a free market, so it's not a matter of you can do more with it, it's a matter of you have to do more with it. Inflation plain and simple, you lose purchasing value.
They switched iP for BE since a large amount of the playerbase was spending their time converting their iP to BE through grinding up random shards bought in the store anyways. More time in crafting = less time playing. They also wanted to remove the "reroll for the new champ" mechanic which lets the high iP playerbase get more iP through discounting the new champ to 5100iP. As compensation they added the BE shop champ token and tweaked it to give a 4800 champ minimum.
We went from like 16 champs a year to 8 champs a year, then they set a standard (lowered again) for like 5 or 6 a year.
Seasons 1 to 3, sure. Now we need to pay for that by reworking them since their kits can't keep up. It's a price that must be payed.
Additionally new champ releases have an increased price, again causing inflation. The post came out two days ago, but it does make an ambiguous reference to recently decreasing the rate of champion releases (so that more BE can be accumulated it claims). So it could be referring to 2014 when the first change to 5-6 a year occurred, I don't know.
Yes, it was 2014ish. New champs only have an increased price for a week; we also get a guaranteed free week with them within a month now too though. We used to need to wait 9+ months for them to hit the free rotation for the first time.
But the value of BE gains does not even out to IP gains. You can look at it a number of different ways, but any way you look at it we are getting less value and being told it is the same thing.
I'm looking at it through math. Calculation-based by adding the iP gain that would have occurred for a game of the same length on the same map before runes reforged. The iP calculation must also use the formula pre-7.21, because that specific patch had a bug which increased iP gains by 30ish%. That number is then compared on a per-level basis to the account's actual BE gains, accounting for WotD using their online match history.
I'm not sure what your referring to with runes for mastery, could you elaborate?
I explained it at the start of this post, but to reiterate: We lost the ability to buy runes with the currency, but gained the ability to directly buy champ mastery.
Oxyrotten1 votesiP was used for:
- Runes/Pages
- Champions
- converting to BE for champ mastery
BE is used for:
- Champions
- Champ Mastery
Not seeing the "BE having more uses" bit.
ALL of which hold less intrinsical value than their IP counterparts. (with the exception of chromas, rune pages even lost value because of interchangeability)
Also not seeing this since the prices of stuff didn't change.
You can not just look at the face value of BE/IP. I'm honestly getting tired of re-typing this explanation. Please go re-read my previous posts if this still confuses you.
Even if we don't get the shard, it takes the same number of games to get the currency.
Even if we don't get a bonus (in the way of gift not cash) from work, it takes the same number of days to earn a specific wage. That DOES not set the value of that wage. This is economics, BE and IP are currency meaning their value changes depending on a number of variables. They are not valued at face value. The US dollar does not hold a 1:1 value. No currency holds a 1:1 value. None.
They switched iP for BE since a large amount of the playerbase was spending their time converting their iP to BE through grinding up random shards bought in the store anyways. More time in crafting = less time playing. They also wanted to remove the "reroll for the new champ" mechanic which lets the high iP playerbase get more iP through discounting the new champ to 5100iP. As compensation they added the BE shop champ token and tweaked it to give a 4800 champ minimum.
So they valued IP gains at a higher ratio than BE and raised the IP value again? You are literally arguing against yourself at this point.
Seasons 1 to 3, sure. Now we need to pay for that by reworking them since their kits can't keep up. It's a price that must be payed.
Irrelevant.
Yes, it was 2014ish. New champs only have an increased price for a week; we also get a guaranteed free week with them within a month now too though. We used to need to wait 9+ months for them to hit the free rotation for the first time.
Has no bearing on matters. Still does not change the price, only (wait for it)... Price changes, change the price...
Also does not explain the post that was released Dec. 29th 2017 stating recent changes taking affect that would result in less price drops. (Although this may or may not have any bearing on the matter)
I'm looking at it through math. Calculation-based by adding the iP gain that would have occurred for a game of the same length on the same map before runes reforged. The iP calculation must also use the formula pre-7.21, because that specific patch had a bug which increased iP gains by 30ish%. That number is then compared on a per-level basis to the account's actual BE gains, accounting for WotD using their online match history.
Have you ever heard the saying that a single statistic is useless by itself? That is what your doing, your looking at it's face value only, which can only be measured in quantity not quality. What we need to do, what I am trying to explain is that there is also a quality value that is lower than just you gave me 5 so I have 5 face value. I may have 5 but how much is that 5 worth?
I explained it at the start of this post, but to reiterate: We lost the ability to buy runes with the currency, but gained the ability to directly buy champ mastery.
So you lost the ability to buy something useful (which raises the value) and replaced it with something non-consquential and that only applies once (lowering the value multiple times)... I don't know how else to explain this to you.
Thank you for discussing this civily by the way, I am trying not to be offensive or rude and apologize if I come off that way at times.
LostFr0st1 votes
- Champions
- Champion Shards
- Champ Mastery
ALL of which hold less intrinsical value than their IP counterparts.
By what means? Magic? Can't just repeat "it has less value now" and will it to be true. It either has less value or it doesn't. There has been no math in any of the posts I've read from ya so far. That saddens me. I would settle for point-form.
There is indeed some stuff below that may be the source of the perceived currency value shift, but we shall get to that.
You can not just look at the face value of BE/IP. I'm honestly getting tired of re-typing this explanation. Please go re-read my previous posts if this still confuses you.
Even if we don't get a bonus (in the way of gift not cash) from work, it takes the same number of days to earn a specific wage. That DOES not set the value of that wage. This is economics, BE and IP are currency meaning their value changes depending on a number of variables. They are not valued at face value. The US dollar does not hold a 1:1 value. No currency holds a 1:1 value. None.
Please use math then, or alternatively point-form so the argument isn't circular.
For the intrinsic value to have changed, one of two things would have needed to occur:
At preseason we basically had a ranked levy removed (runes) and a high-income tax exemption removed (champ rerolling). That's what changed.
So they valued IP gains at a higher ratio than BE and raised the IP value again? You are literally arguing against yourself at this point.
More akin to removing a high-income tax exemption. If that is the basis of the argument for BE being worth less then iP then say it outright, because most of the league community could not utilize the reroll strategy to turn a consistent profit.
Irrelevant.
Has no bearing on matters. Still does not change the price, only (wait for it)... Price changes, change the price...
The basis of the argument is Champ price reduction then? For every Champ released one is reduced, every third champ an additional one is reduced.
Less Champs being released also doesn't change the value of the roster reductions. That doesn't make sense. No matter the release cadence the reduction has the same value.
Also does not explain the post that was released Dec. 29th 2017 stating recent changes taking affect that would result in less price drops. (Although this may or may not have any bearing on the matter)
Link please? I was gone for a bit so it's perfectly reasonable I missed a devblog, but I can't seem to find one. :/
Have you ever heard the saying that a single statistic is useless by itself? That is what your doing, your looking at it's face value only, which can only be measured in quantity not quality. What we need to do, what I am trying to explain is that there is also a quality value that is lower than just you gave me 5 so I have 5 face value. I may have 5 but how much is that 5 worth?
The worth of 5 has not changed since the variable of cost of living has not changed (we have agreed the Wage variable remained a consistent numerical value).
So you lost the ability to buy something useful (which raises the value) and replaced it with something non-consquential and that only applies once (lowering the value multiple times)... I don't know how else to explain this to you.
We lost the ability to buy something useful, but now we get the equivalent free (runes reforged). We can now buy Champions instead of being pulled between Runes and Champions and start Ranked on an even stat playing-ground.
We also already had the ability to buy champ mastery with iP but we needed to convert it to BE first. The conversion was based on RNGesus so champ masteries had variable prices; it was standardized with the currency change.
^Is this the source of the perceived disparity?
Thank you for discussing this civily by the way, I am trying not to be offensive or rude and apologize if I come off that way at times.
I'm enjoying our discussion too^^ You come off impassioned to me bro. It's more fun to discuss stuff this way.
Oxyrotten1 votesBy what means? Magic? Can't just repeat "it has less value now" and will it to be true. It either has less value or it doesn't. There has been no math in any of the posts I've read from ya so far. That saddens me. I would settle for point-form.
I think I realized the issue with our discussion. We are trying to compare quantitative analysis with qualitative analysis. Value of BE/IP holds qualitative value, but your only looking at the quantitative side because that is all we are presented with (by riot).
Perhaps the value is partially subjective and that may be my oversight in the matter.
There is indeed some stuff below that may be the source of the perceived currency value shift, but we shall get to that.
Please use math then, or alternatively point-form so the argument isn't circular.
For the intrinsic value to have changed, one of two things would have needed to occur:
- Wage changes (we don't seem to disagree here about the 1:1 # of ip to BE)
- Cost of living changes (price of stuff and therefore relative value of the currency)
At preseason we basically had a ranked levy removed (runes) and a high-income tax exemption removed (champ rerolling). That's what changed.
I am trying to save both of us the headache of wading through any equations I would come up with. I despise math and try to avoid it if possible, again that's my issue and probably a point I will have to concede.
I do disagree with 1. but I will say it's close enough to not have a weighted impact, and relatively close enough to 1:1 that I will say it doesn't matter.
IP:
VS
BE:
You can buy more things that all hold lower value (champion's aside) than their IP counterparts. This means BE has less impact on gameplay than IP, giving BE less value than IP. I will admit that it does hold a certain subjective value for aesthetic goods, but this value is elastic varying from person to person. (Maybe this is my personal issue with BE since I hold very little subjective value on aesthetics that don't impact gameplay)
More akin to removing a high-income tax exemption. If that is the basis of the argument for BE being worth less then iP then say it outright, because most of the league community could not utilize the reroll strategy to turn a consistent profit.
Percentage of the community not being able to access a strategy does not mean the strategy does not exist. Although I will admit that is not what I was referring to, I hadn't even considered this. Wouldn't the current reroll option be considered another sink lowering the value of BE yet again?
The basis of the argument is Champ price reduction then? For every Champ released one is reduced, every third champ an additional one is reduced.
No.
Less Champs being released also doesn't change the value of the roster reductions. That doesn't make sense. No matter the release cadence the reduction has the same value.
Not true, it raises the value of champions because the availability of champs lowers. As well as means that high price champions hold their value for longer, again raising their overall value. HOWEVER because the number of things to spend currency on increases (cost of living), less champ price reduction simultaneously lowers BE value. In addition this also causes BE to be less useful since you effectively need more of it to buy the same value items (champs) over a longer period of time, making BE lose value once again.
Link please? I was gone for a bit so it's perfectly reasonable I missed a devblog, but I can't seem to find one. :/
https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/202083304-Permanent-Champion-Price-Reduction The wording is ambiguous and after some thought probably is referring to the rate reduction implemented in 2014, I'll concede this having no bearing on the matter as an additional reduction. The fact remains that over time there has been a reduction in champ release/price drop rate.
The worth of 5 has not changed since the variable of cost of living has not changed (we have agreed the Wage variable remained a consistent numerical value).
It was probably a bad example since we had not defined the use of that 5 items of currency. With BE/IP we do have defined uses that dictate expected value, showing BE as a lower expected value than IP.
We lost the ability to buy something useful, but now we get the equivalent free (runes reforged).
That literally makes BE less useful. Sure there is a perceived cost of living decrease, but alongside that cost of living decrease comes deflation of value for BE.
We can now buy Champions instead of being pulled between Runes and Champions and start Ranked on an even stat playing-ground.
This is another thing I have an issue with (actually a bigger issue than IP/BE), and another propaganda-ish bit of misinformation spewed by riot to mislead it's simple minded playerbase. Sorry this change really pisses me off. I will leave this alone since it is a tangent.
We also already had the ability to buy champ mastery with iP but we needed to convert it to BE first. The conversion was based on RNGesus so champ masteries had variable prices; it was standardized with the currency change.
^Is this the source of the perceived disparity?
I wasn't even aware of this to be honest. I took a break as well (year and a half or so), so there is a lot I missed as well.
LostFr0st1 votesI think I realized the issue with our discussion. We are trying to compare quantitative analysis with qualitative analysis. Value of BE/IP holds qualitative value, but your only looking at the quantitative side because that is all we are presented with (by riot).
Perhaps the value is partially subjective and that may be my oversight in the matter.
I am trying to save both of us the headache of wading through any equations I would come up with. I despise math and try to avoid it if possible, again that's my issue and probably a point I will have to concede.
^ means currency value up v means currency value down
Pre-crafting: Pretty much everything you stated below is true here. Couple things I'll ask about later though. ^ Runes have value and can be reused; rune pages as well. ^ Champions also very valuable and necessary.
Crafting enters the scene but iP still around: This overlaps with one and a half year break mentioned below likely (idk). The arrows here correspond to iP currency perceived value -- not BE. ^ iP used to buy champions ^ iP must be used to buy runes ^ or v iP can be transmuted into BE. RNGesus decides if value down or up. v chests can be obtained in-game which may yield champ shards (BE) v BE can be used to purchase champions vv 3 champ shards can be rerolled to yield an unowned champion. (can reroll Annie+YI+Nunu and could get Jinx or something). Can be rigged through purchasing low iP champs first thus getting a deal on all champs over 3150. ^ or = Champion mastery - this one depends on the summoner. It either doesn't affect our iP value or it makes it worth more since we also need to buy champs/runes.
I do disagree with 1. but I will say it's close enough to not have a weighted impact, and relatively close enough to 1:1 that I will say it doesn't matter.
- however is exactly what happened, but in our example it's not limited to the price of "cost of living" but there was also a shift in value of goods obtained through "cost of living". Previously we were able to purchase goods with IP that held a greater value. Rune's, rune pages, champion's correct?
I agree here. The game is now less about grinding and more about gameplay/ranked. Perhaps agreeing here dissolves our discussion, idk.
IP:
- Rune's held a good value because they were not limited to single time use, they had impact on gameplay (arguably required meaning even greater value), were usable in exponential combinations with each other (raising value), and additional multiplicative combinations with champions (raising value).
- Rune page's held a similar value, usable repeatedly, had impact on gameplay, arguably required meaning greater value
- Champion's hold a high value for obvious reasons, usable repeatedly, have impact on gameplay, usable in multiplicative combination's, arguably required as well,
VS
BE:
- Champion's, same as above,
- Hextech crafting (champion shards), additional source of champions (lowers value of champions, supply/demand), cheaper source of champions (lowers value of champions, supply/demand), source of shards (high value due to rarity and high demand low supply)
This last one is cancelled out 1:1 with not getting currency post-game. It is unfair to count it.
- Champion shards (same as above but kept separate for analysis purposes), lower drop rate for high value champions (raises value on high end champions), comparitively higher drop rate for low value champions (lowers value for low end champions, which is in greater ratio to high end)
- Rune pages, considerably less value than it's IP counterpart (runes are now changeable on the fly meaning multiple pages are not required, negating the impact on gameplay)
yes.
- Champion Mastery, obvious sink, significant additional "living cost" lowering the value of BE
subjective but ok. Some people (like me) don't give a crap about it. Some could argue that runes post 4-total pages were a sink though too.
- Chromas, this ones arguable since it holds conversion value for cash shop, no impact on gameplay giving it subjectively less value (making it a luxury good not a cost of living expense), luxury good vs necessity good means elasticity in value
yes, considered elastic.
- Essence Emporium, another obvious BE sink, limited and selective lower value goods at better prices (again lowers value of BE through closed market choices), a single item that effects gameplay that is offered at a higher price with higher chance of dropping a cheaper priced item (drastically losing value of BE)
What is meant by the bolded section? Is this the mystery 4800BE+ Champion unlock?
- Name changes, another BE sink, holds no intrinsical value, only value is subjective, no impact on gameplay
You can buy more things that all hold lower value (champion's aside) than their IP counterparts. This means BE has less impact on gameplay than IP, giving BE less value than IP. I will admit that it does hold a certain subjective value for aesthetic goods, but this value is elastic varying from person to person. (Maybe this is my personal issue with BE since I hold very little subjective value on aesthetics that don't impact gameplay)
Though removing Champ rerolling increased the value of BE by 10 - 33~ish %
Percentage of the community not being able to access a strategy does not mean the strategy does not exist. Although I will admit that is not what I was referring to, I hadn't even considered this. Wouldn't the current reroll option be considered another sink lowering the value of BE yet again?
Since it has a temporal restriction it both increases the value and serves as a sink. When not present, a person may consider keeping their BE until the shop (upping their currency value subjectively). When present yes it's a sink.
Not true, it raises the value of champions because the availability of champs lowers. As well as means that high price champions hold their value for longer, again raising their overall value.
This raises the value of champs and thus raises the value of BE
HOWEVER because the number of things to spend currency on increases (cost of living)
Cost of living has decreased due to the removal of runes. Adding something which we can buy if we _want _ does not increase the cost of living. Thus thiis lowers the value of BE.
less champ price reduction simultaneously lowers BE value.
On the contrary, it either raises the value (since we have more champs to buy for more cost) or does nothing since it's equivalent to the iP rate.
In addition this also causes BE to be less useful since you effectively need more of it to buy the same value items (champs) over a longer period of time, making BE lose value once again.
This is a mixup/reversed. Champs now (in use) are worth more than the same champ later. More BE demand intrinsically increases the value of a currency, not decreases it :/
[removed tangents]
This is another thing I have an issue with (actually a bigger issue than IP/BE), and another propaganda-ish bit of misinformation spewed by riot to mislead it's simple minded playerbase. Sorry this change really pisses me off. I will leave this alone since it is a tangent.
LOL keeping this one to comment on since it made me laugh. This specific change does indeed benefit Riot and new players more than anyone, but a bigger playerbase playing ranked does make the overall population happier due to lower queue times and more competition.
The value of this one will show over time to us.
I wasn't even aware of this to be honest. I took a break as well (year and a half or so), so there is a lot I missed as well.
It basically erased the cost of new champs for OG players. They would get chests through playing and accumulate champ shards. Since every week they can get one chest, and new champs are released every 2-3 months that gave 8-12 chests of time to get 3 champ shards. Since they owned all champions, rerolling 3 would auto-yield the new champ, effectively making the iP price equal to zero instead of 7800 at release.
This was a tremendous hit to the currency value of iP, and its removal this preseason equally increases BEs value back to what iP was worth pre-crafting.
p.s. boards might break soon due to too many replies. I'll quote/reply to one of the earlier comments if that happens.
Oxyrotten1 votes[{quoted}](name=XNatsu DragneelX,realm=EUNE,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=p4s7gXO2,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-12-30T18:34:51.394+0000)
Yeah Thanks But even if i level up i don't get BE And in my last level up i got a champion that i don't own and i only have 450 BE This is so stupid (sorry for my language) I hope they fix it and make it like before But Thanks for your help sir Have a nice day and merry xmas
They won't change it back. It is intentional design. They do this to increase sales in the cash store (and we pay the price).
TsunamiNinja3 votesMinor correction. First win of the day is only 50 flat BE.
LostFr0st2 votesty bro. Fixed!
UnderwearDood2 votesThe way you get blue essence hasn't changed, get chests or champion capsules from leveling up and disenchant shards or unlock them. You also get 50 blue essence and 400exp for first win. The more you play the more BE you get. But i do agree, it is VERY hard to get expensive champions now, you kinda have to get lucky so you can get a discounted price with the champion shard. Old system was way better where you get ip for winning. Riot did add missions which makes it a little more fun grinding. Hope this help <3
XNatsu DragneelX1 votesi guess i have to play more.. riot and the Brilliant ideas they have. God help us Thanks for the help have a nice day sir Merry Xmas
UnderwearDood1 votesHappy 2018! Good luck grinding*[slayer-jinx-wink]*
Pinkaj1 votesBtw it's not a bug