Katarina R won't activate even when enemy is in range but not visisble [Gameplay]

Phatbeatz·Apr 21, 2018·27 votes·11,561 views

Katarina's R can no longer be activated when an enemy is in range of her ult but cannot be seen by Katarina. For example even if Kat is in R range of an enemy:

If Kat is standing right next to Teemo when he is invisible, she cannot ult.
If Kat is standing right next to a brush that any enemy champion is in, but has no vision of the enemy, she cannot ult.

You can even see in the video I have posted that when an enemy is in range in the brush (but isn't visible), the R icon changes colour indicating someone is in ult range, however it doesn't become usable until you can actually see them such as warding the brush they're in.

BASICALLY: Even if the enemy champion is RIGHT next to Katarina and in range of her Ultimate, Katarina can no longer activate her ultimate if she does not have direct vision of the enemy.

Katarina always used to be able to activate her ultimate even on invisible/camouflaged targets. For example if you were in the brush with a hidden Teemo, you used to be able to activate your ultimate, no you no longer can.

This has not been mentioned in any patch notes or anything. I think it's a bug.

27 Comments

KonDimApr 21, 20189 votes

One more thing that worth to mention is after shunpo on enemy the ultimate cannot be casted right away it has a small delay around 0.5 sec

Moon MomApr 21, 20187 votes

upvoted and hoping for a fix.. there's so many bugs here lately.

KairoptraApr 21, 20186 votes

Well, if the target’s invisible to Katarina and her ult is up, then wouldn’t that give her an unfair vision advantage?

PhatbeatzApr 21, 20189 votes

The ultimate never used to grant targetable vision of the enemy, it would just activate and hit the enemy. This is how it has always worked up until this patch.

KairoptraApr 21, 20184 votes

I understand that, but the fact still remains that you would be able to know if an enemy is there without actually seeing them.

Kosm1KApr 21, 201810 votes

Yeah it's a little bit of an advantage but her ult has worked that way since forever, at least since season two from what I remember, and riot never removed it until now

Heckin SupportApr 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yeah it's a little bit of an advantage but her ult has worked that way since forever, at least since season two from what I remember, and riot never removed it until now

Also even if it is an advantage, so what? This is super useful, and most Katarina players won't/don't even notice this is a thing. Also, this would make it super hard for Katarina players to do much vs invisible targets such as Twitch, Kha, Teemo, Akali, etc.

PhatbeatzApr 21, 20181 votes

No, you wouldn't know because you don't run around spamming R every 0.25s just because there 'may' be an invisible person around you. That's not how we did it. There's a strategy and tactics to it; such as if you 'know' there's a Teemo in that bush, or a Shaco just Q'd over your wall to gank you and know he is near you, or Leblanc just split up due to her passive and is still invisible, or Rengar is about to jump you or a plethora of other times it's essential to be able to activate your ultimate to "target the nearest" three enemies in range of our ultimate; which is what the tooltip says. You can even see it's a bug in my video as when I do activate my ultimate from the visible target dummy, it still hits the target dummy in the brush I CAN'T see. It is 100% a bug currently because the icon is activating itself indicating someone is in range of the ultimate, yet it doesn't let you activate it.

Supreme Senpai69Apr 21, 20184 votes

That is not what he is saying. He is saying if the ability is usually greyed out if nobody is around, and if it suddenly stops being greyed out, that means an invisible champion is nearby. He is saying this is somewhat unfair as it negates invisibility completely if you simply look at your HUD.

Kats PajamasApr 22, 20181 votes

Wow genius, maybe if there was some character that had counter-invisibility, invisibility wouldn't need so many nerfs.

Katarina in S4 was known as the 'counter invisibility' champ because all 4 of her moves interacted with invisible units.

Now apparently, her niche trait is unfair, so screw her. I guess I'll just play that other Assassin that specializes in killing invisible units item 2055 .

The best part of this conversation is that it is 'unfair' when invisibility cucks Katarina so hard already.

Have you even seen a pro katarina duel a Rengar? They place W down as his ult goes off, and they prepare to dig themselves a nice grave next to it with a E+GB+QRE combo. It kills Rengar maybe 5% of the time, while Rengar wins the other 95%, and he kills her in any location on the map he pleases solely because of invisibility. It's nice to know you think it's fair Katarina not even have chance to ult him, you know, because that's unfair.

Katarina ult doesn't even do damage. There is a popular clip on kat reddit, of a katarina one for all, and a single katarina collecting daggers outplayed 5 katarina ulting her at the same time. Her ult is already garbage, and most of it's power came from this utility to see around corners, or apply grievous wounds quickly. If this nerf is intended, then learning extra Shunpo point at level 6 will be meta.

Consider the implications of LoS with kat ult, and now consider if it's fair a Graves should be able to lock her down without even having CC at all, after years of it not working like that. Is it fair Kat just cannot fight during Nocturne ult? This is more than just bush struggles if this mechanic is intended. This is an insanely large nerf.

Supreme Senpai69Apr 25, 20181 votes

I'm not going to argue the balance of a champion I neither play nor play against. I was just clarifying what Kairoptra said because Phatbeatz clearly didn't fully understand.

I guess, just to contribute to the discussion and without speaking of balance, I would have to agree with the notion that it appears somewhat unfair. If she is on the weak side perhaps she should be buffed in some other way as a compensation

VoraciousXApr 21, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I understand that, but the fact still remains that you would be able to know if an enemy is there without actually seeing them.

It's always worked this way, and the invisible champion has an advantage over Katarina in being invisible. All AOE abilities that find targets have always been that way. They activate and are able to be activated if an enemy is nearby, whether in vision or not. It's the same with Morgana's ultimate. Also if you look at the video he clearly showed an example of the enemy being unseen with other enemies around, and him activating the ultimate, which showed the daggers hitting the unseen enemy as well. That makes it obviously a bug.

Also I've had this happen to me. I think it was against a Shaco iirc. I kept trying to use it but it wouldn't target him. At first I thought he was just away from me invisible but then he appeared near us and I was like "WTF I've been spamming this button trying to get my ult to activate!"

KazekibaApr 21, 20185 votes

Thats how any Camo, the old Abyssal Scepter, Morgana's ult, Rek'Sai's passive, etc all work.

Or skillshots. Yasuo can Q where he thinks a target is and if the tornado hits, you'll hear a sound "hit confirm". Pseudo-vision is available to quite a lot of champs.

PhatbeatzApr 21, 20182 votes

You clearly don't understand what I'm referring to. Read my bug report again. Kat's ult has worked this way since I began playing her six years ago. Suddenly this patch (without any note of it) her ult has been completely cucked.

PhatbeatzApr 21, 20181 votes

Also as stated below by someone else

"morgana's r, however, does work when she does not have vision of the enemy but they are nearby"

ampheonApr 22, 20181 votes

Morgana's R, however, gives true sight of the enemy, Katarina's R does not

Supreme Senpai69Apr 21, 20181 votes

He is replying to a post from "Kairoptra." He is not replying to your thread.

ArabAntagonistApr 21, 20184 votes

morgana's r, however, does work when she does not have vision of the enemy but they are nearby, i've done this before with a teemo

TeCoolMageApr 21, 20182 votes

Visisble sounds like how I'd imagine a toddler saying the word LOL

PhatbeatzApr 21, 20181 votes

hahaha god damn it. Is the fact that it's 2am in Australia an excuse for poor spelling?

TeCoolMageApr 21, 20181 votes

hey I'm OCE too so no

foristApr 21, 20181 votes

Can you show this in an actual match? because this could be an issue with how the target dummies are coded in practice tool.

PhatbeatzApr 22, 20181 votes

The reason I even noticed it was because it happens in actual matches... What is being shown here in this practice tool is an exact duplicate of what occurs in the regular matches

foristApr 22, 20182 votes

That's interesting. I've always disliked the fact it is activate-able even without having vision on the target, but if this change is unintended they should definitely fix it by next patch.

Snowman ArcApr 22, 20181 votes

It is bugged, but it was an unfair advantage.

Snowman ArcApr 22, 20181 votes

I loved old Vlad's E to be honest. The ability would send an auto-locked projectile to every enemy range, so you knew their exact position. I once managed to kill a Teemo this way.