Xin Zhao no more knock up?

Bonananana·Feb 18, 2015·8 votes·13,663 views

pretty much the title. Was playing xin as jungler and noticed that the third q cannot knock up anymore, anyone have the same problem?

30 Comments

RiotMeddlerFeb 18, 20158 votes

That's definitely a bug, not an intended change. I'm 99% sure we've got a fix for that in the next patch already, will double check tomorrow though.

Krys StarFeb 18, 20155 votes

Why is it always next patch? What 'deadline' exists that stops you guys from hotfixing such bugs? You guys used to be so aggressive and passionate about balancing your game back in season one, now not so much... =\

RiotMeddlerFeb 18, 20155 votes

Hotfixes (making quick changes to the servers without taking them down for a longer maintenance period) have extra risk associated with them. Hotfix changes do get tested extensively, but it's over a shorter period of time so it's not completely equal to a full patch cycle of testing. As a result in order to justify the risk involved hotfixes need to be really high value (e.g. X champion is currently disabled because they crash the game) or be at least fairly high value and really low risk (e.g. changing a single number in a text file that corrects a major damage bug). In this particular case Xin Zhao's Q doesn't knock up if the target isn't moving at the time of the third hit. That's definitely a significant bug, but it's not crippling him and the fix involves code changes, which are much riskier than just changing data values. As a result (as far as I'm aware, server patches aren't my area of expertise) we're not currently planning to hotfix this bug.

In terms of how often we update we're currently putting out a patch every two weeks generally (major exceptions around things like Worlds, Christmas etc). I can understand your frustration that fixes like this can take a bit of time to come out, that's the same cadence of patches as in Season 1 back in 2011 though.

DryditchFeb 18, 20156 votes

Meddler, I (and I'm sure many other Xin mains) appreciate your response to this problem, but I can't help finding this explanation a poor excuse for not hotfixing the problem. If some code were modified in Xin's files, what would it actually take to roll it back a patch? If it's a broader issue with the gamecode as a whole, then it makes a lot of sense, but it doesn't appear there are other glitches with knockups.

If this were a bug where Lee Sin's Q didn't mark the target hit, or Zed's passive was dealing damage which stopped at 1 hit point before death, there would be a hotfix out yesterday. (Based on prior examples from relevant player-base size and glitches/malfunctions)

Xin is almost completely unplayable for his mains now, since we rely on the rhythm of that .8 second auto attack/spell disrupt window as a slight relief from damage.

Xin mains play an all-in style, and we engage when there is a 90% chance we'll get a kill or force a disengage. In the jungle, our routes end with an at-max 10 minute solo dragon before first-back, which we can't do without the respite provided by Q's knockup.

Xin not having his knockup is like Nasus's Q getting an accidental cap at 300 stacks. It changes the champion entirely, and forces a difference in playstyle.

At the very least, could there be some kind of notice that pops up in the launcher to put Xin's lack of knockup in peoples' faces, so those who haven't played him recently don't make fools of themselves, expecting his Q to function as advertised?

WolfchyldeFeb 18, 20156 votes

Yup. I main xin and have not been able to play him since the patch. I would most certainly call it crippling.

Tofu JoeFeb 19, 20152 votes

here here

rjg9nFeb 25, 20152 votes

Agreed- this issue should be better socialized in the community so people know that it's going to happen before going into champ select. Furthermore, the knockup on the Q is easily one of the top 3 most important components of his kit, so it not functioning should really result in disabling of the champion. I wonder how much aggregate LP was lost or how far his win rate dipped as a result of this bug. Definitely enough to warrant a disable or at least a update/message in the client.

HellioningFeb 18, 20154 votes

Idunno about you, but without Xin being able to knock up the monsters, his first clear is atrocious now. So if 'this skill doesn't actually function' isn't 'crippling him' than what would 'crippling' be?

GloriousKaiserFeb 18, 20155 votes

Lee Sin not being able to ward hop.

Tin TarantinoFeb 19, 20151 votes

*Getting hit with Lee Sin's E

The MormonatorFeb 24, 20152 votes

I'm not saying that I am overly angered that this wasn't hotfixed because I understand the process and its use, but what really pushed a few buttons is saying that it isn't crippling Xin in the mean time. That's just an odd thing to say.

DryditchFeb 25, 20151 votes

Absolutely, Mormonator. It's just another example of the blatant favoritism that dominates Riot's balance philosophy.

I don't mind the bug. I mind the treatment of the bug.

For four days, there were threads on the boards, unaddressed by any red. When they finally reply, it's to say they're aware, and tell us they won't be doing anything about it for another week.

AuraMaxFeb 19, 20154 votes

I guess Xin's going to become the No. 1 ban/pick in Nemesis till this gets fixed.

XinZhao

Your Secret XinFeb 24, 20152 votes

Still playing him 24/7, but in normals...

Furnace Of SoulsFeb 18, 20153 votes

i have been having the same problem...i was about to post this myself

End CreditsFeb 19, 20153 votes

Yeah. >.> I hadn't played in a few months and ended up playing a game as Xin. I thought maybe they'd just reduced the knock-up to something almost imperceptible as some sort of change that occurred while I was gone.

Even if it won't be fixed right away, I'm glad it's simply a bug and not an intentional change. XD

Colgate GatorFeb 18, 20152 votes

So it WAS a bug and not my computer pulling a fast one on me.

Chaotic ReksFeb 18, 20152 votes

holy shit he's balanced now

DryditchFeb 19, 20152 votes

He's no longer Xin.

That .8 seconds of knockup is the only way he gets any kind of salvation in a burst attempt.

Chaotic ReksFeb 19, 20152 votes

so the 3 enhanced AA's and the massive attack speed + armor shred isn't enough?

DifferentialFeb 19, 20151 votes

I agree xin is broken as fuck, now hes only moderately fucked.

DryditchFeb 20, 20152 votes

Xin needs to be in auto range of a carry to initiate. The damage he gets dealt before diving in is quite significant.

Having the .8 seconds of knockup can mean 1 fewer auto that comes in, which is often the difference between life and death.

Chaotic ReksFeb 20, 20151 votes

so the dash+slow isn't good enough either, huh?

DryditchFeb 21, 20152 votes

Clarification:

the carry's auto range.

By the time he's close enough for that dash/slow to take effect, he's eaten two shots to the face and dealt no damage. Then there's the carry's own dash/mobility spell (most will have that) with which they can disengage and auto him more.

Should they stand and fight, that .8 seconds is the only way he's going to survive an encounter.

I can't tell you how many engages are won and lost by careful management of that knockup.

i.e: Proccing the damage on a tank to get them low, popping up an incoming carry, and providing your team a moment of relief in which to get their next rotation of spells off.

Chaotic ReksFeb 21, 20151 votes

well thank god you get healed every third AA

DryditchFeb 22, 20152 votes

Except that scales with AP... So you only get healed for like... 60 health.

warpenguin555Feb 18, 20151 votes

dammit now riot knows :(

now i have to see xin zhao more... thanks

219 RepresentFeb 18, 20151 votes

When can I chose the role I want for my ranked season instead of im last pick im force to do roles I personally don't like? It might just change attitudes knowing people got what they wanted and hopefully don't suck while doing it. Honestly I been playing this game since season 1 also and still don't understand ranked. When I look at lcs and see the same guy playing the same role every time. GL!