Epilepsy Causing Skin

EqualMisstaying·Jun 7, 2019·152 votes·19,232 views

Hello Riot Games.

I wanted to showcase that your Battle Academia Ezreal Skin has a high risk of causing Epileptic seizures due to its colour schemes, crazy dimensions and flashy lights. I have reported this to Riot Player support but they have dismissed me, saying this is a matter for the Skin Development team to solve. I don't understand why they haven't relayed the information to them but instead sent me here to report on it and hope for a response from a Rioter.

This is a very important matter because I had never had an epileptic seizure history in my 6 years of playing League, yet this skin might change that. If nothing is done then I am afraid I might have to quit play the game indefinitely.

Have a good day.

78 Comments

cars3nJun 7, 201922 votes

Upvote so rioters see!

EqualMisstayingJun 7, 20198 votes

{quoted}

Upvote so rioters see!

Thank you very much! Yes, rioters really need to see this.

SugarliciousJun 7, 201921 votes

Even though I do see the problem, you saying "If nothing is done then I am afraid I might have to quit play the game indefinitely.", kinda gives me the threatening vibe. I mean, you could have said "I'll have to keep banning this champ forever to avoid the risk, and I'll never be able to play blind games or aram again", but you choose to hit the "I quit" button right away. For that alone, I'd say don't let the doors hit your azz on your way out.

Livin like RivenJun 7, 201922 votes

{quoted}

Even though I do see the problem, you saying "If nothing is done then I am afraid I might have to quit play the game indefinitely.", kinda gives me the threatening vibe. I mean, you could have said "I'll have to keep banning this champ forever to avoid the risk, and I'll never be able to play blind games or aram again", but you choose to hit the "I quit" button right away. For that alone, I'd say don't let the doors hit your azz on your way out.

You have to figure, he might be an ARAM only player, and even if he's not, if he's at risk for seizures and Riot refuses to fix THIS instance of epilepsy-triggering effects, they might be lax on later effects down the line that carry the same risks. Not worth playing a game if you think the company isn't taking proper measures to ensure lack of epilepsy triggers when you're epileptic.

That being said, Riot has changed plenty of skins in the past for this very reason, and the guy probably has nothing to worry about on this front.

EqualMisstayingJun 7, 201931 votes

{quoted}

Even though I do see the problem, you saying "If nothing is done then I am afraid I might have to quit play the game indefinitely.", kinda gives me the threatening vibe. I mean, you could have said "I'll have to keep banning this champ forever to avoid the risk, and I'll never be able to play blind games or aram again", but you choose to hit the "I quit" button right away. For that alone, I'd say don't let the doors hit your azz on your way out.

I disagree. Nothing is more important than your own health, and if the game is going to threaten my own health for playing it then i will have no choice but to protect myself by not playing the game.

KoggyStyleJun 8, 20193 votes

Thats some bullshit, If something could give you health issues would* you not want others to help keep the cuase away?

SugarliciousJun 8, 20196 votes

{quoted}

Thats some bullshit, If something could give you health issues would* you not want others to help keep the cuase away?

Do you want an honest answer? No, I would not. If there were something in this game bothering me, I would personally feel rather entitled to expect such a huge company and such a huge community to cater to a very small percentage of people like me. We all have a choice - nobody is making you play this game, so yes, he can quit it. But the fact is that he CAN still play it = he just has to put some extra effort into avoiding this one thing that bothers him. But instead of putting some effort into that, he expects RIOT to put effort into changing this one thing instead. That's just my perspective. That being said, if they can change it, they should= but they should do so for all similar skins then. The problem should be flashy skins in general, and this topic should be expanded. But again, the guy chooses to emphasize one single skin while at the same time threatening to leave the game INSTEAD of avoiding that one single skin. See the inequality of reactions?

Daedric EtwahlJun 8, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Even though I do see the problem, you saying "If nothing is done then I am afraid I might have to quit play the game indefinitely.", kinda gives me the threatening vibe. I mean, you could have said "I'll have to keep banning this champ forever to avoid the risk, and I'll never be able to play blind games or aram again", but you choose to hit the "I quit" button right away. For that alone, I'd say don't let the doors hit your azz on your way out.

On what planet is that have a "threatening vibe"??? Thin skin much, jfc

SugarliciousJun 8, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Daedric Etwahl,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=FlzfOEpe,comment-id=00040003,timestamp=2019-06-08T04:29:33.212+0000)

On what planet is that have a "threatening vibe"??? Thin skin much, jfc

"Do this or I quit" is a threat. Or maybe you don't know the meaning of that word. And also, "vibe" is a subjective feeling, so again, maybe the problem is your lack of language skills, not my "thin skin".

Daedric EtwahlJun 8, 20196 votes

{quoted}

"Do this or I quit" is a threat. Or maybe you don't know the meaning of that word. And also, "vibe" is a subjective feeling, so again, maybe the problem is your lack of language skills, not my "thin skin".

Except nowhere did OP say "Do this or I quit"

The actual quote from OP is "If nothing is done then I am afraid I might have to quit play the game indefinitely."

The language used is not threatening in any capacity, it is stating that the OP will feels forced to stop playing the game for their own safety, despite wishing to continue playing this game.

But please, continue telling me how I "don't understand" lol

BackdoorPrincessJun 8, 20192 votes

"Oh just ban the champ" yeah let's make the already asinine mechanic to balancing >130 champs recently be made even more so by using it to possibly avoid something that realistically can cause seizures, something that riot has made somewhat of a point to avoid creating this whole time. No, it's not a threatening vibe at all, if you say we're gonna play soccer in a dog park and I'm allergic to dogs, it is not threatening to say "hey if we don't change this I'm not gonna play because I don't want to have serious health implications when there is a perfectly reasonable alternative/fix, even if that guy over there has no idea what he's talking about and wants to just get offended".

Riot has already been working with different colorblind variations (as can be seen with accessibility modes) and has certainly nerfed skins that made abilities harder to see/differentiate for years, and a skin that can cause a seizure you can bet your ass would be taken a hell of a lot more because of that fact, similar to what used to be frost annie for her passive being harder to see, steel legion lux for harder to see abilities, etc.

There are several easy fixes to eliminate the epilepsy part, making it not flash as bright or as quickly, making a separate option for people who are epilepsy prone to eliminate particles and effects like this (which I'm honestly surprised hasn't been done yet), hell it looks so similar to Garen's ult they could change it to be something different even. I don't have anything related to epilepsy and don't really know anyone who does either, that being said it's already debilitating enough to have to avoid a large portion of videogames and media specifically due to not wanting possible brain damage, so yeah I'll take the epileptics side over the company who can afford to make a change like that

SugarliciousJun 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

First of all, your comparison is completely wrong. The right one would be playing soccer in a normal park where one or two people happen to be walking their dogs and threatening not to play at all unless they leave. Actually, the question here is - has RIOT made it clear that this game caters to the epileptic community, or are you trying to make them do so now when skins happen to be a bit flashier? I'm too lazy to go through their rules, but somebody should, and if you can find some disclaimer that says the game is supposed to be safe for everybody, then, by all means, continue fighting the windmill. And like you said, they already have to avoid a great number of games, so what makes this game any different?

EqualMisstayingJun 8, 20194 votes

{quoted}

First of all, your comparison is completely wrong. The right one would be playing soccer in a normal park where one or two people happen to be walking their dogs and threatening not to play at all unless they leave. Actually, the question here is - has RIOT made it clear that this game caters to the epileptic community, or are you trying to make them do so now when skins happen to be a bit flashier? I'm too lazy to go through their rules, but somebody should, and if you can find some disclaimer that says the game is supposed to be safe for everybody, then, by all means, continue fighting the windmill. And like you said, they already have to avoid a great number of games, so what makes this game any different?

No offense Sugarlicious, but you are literally insane if you honestly think it's ok for Riot to ignore basic health concerns when designing skins, with potential hazardous results.

Let me clarify a few things: I have never said that I wanted Riot to remove the skin or to no longer implement flashy effects on their skins. I trust Riot to make awesome looking skins that people are willing to pay for. What I said instead was that this skin can be damaging to a person's eyes and that someting needs to be done about it. I have NEVER had an epilepsy seizure up until now, not even after witnessing that effect, but it made my eyes very sensitive to the effect. Imagine watching the same effect multiple times in a single match.

Next, your solution to avoid this one problematic skin is a decent, albeit unrealistic, one. I don't like the idea of dodging every single game with an Ezreal pick on it over a skin. This can trigger Leaverbuster with the addition that you are intentionally ruining people's games because of it. I also don't want to tell my teammates "Plese don't play BA Ezreal. I'm sensitive to its FX." I wouldn't like being told to not play a skin I payed good money for just because someone doesn't like its effects. And I expect others to not like it either.

Finally, I am not someone who is part of a "vocal minority" trying to get Riot to "cater" to my needs in detriment of the general playerbase. I am just someone with health concerns trying my best to bring this to Riot's attention. But you are free to interpret my post however you want. All I want is an answer from a Rioter.

(With that said, +80 upvotes! I can't thank you all enough for your efforts! :D Lets hope a Rioter sees this soon.)

SugarliciousJun 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I do think they should take health into consideration when designing skins, but this topic is not about skins but SKIN. One skin. You made it this way, you put "skin" in the title. if you phrased your post in a way that would include all flashy skins, and THEN named a few examples, it would make sense. But you did exactly the opposite - you named a single skin, you want this one skin changed, and then if another similar skin shows up in the future, you will do what, make a new thread because this one doesn't apply to any other skin except Ezreal's?
So, you acknowledge the fact that there are things you could do to avoid the mentioned health hazard, which is what I've been trying to explain to your dense defenders, and yet, you "don't like" doing any of them? So, you consciously choose not to do anything that could maintain your health, but you expect RIOT to do everything they can because it's easier for you? That's my other issue, you're willing to put in 0 effort into anything, but you expect 100 effort from the company. Okay...

EqualMisstayingJun 8, 20193 votes

{quoted}

I do think they should take health into consideration when designing skins, but this topic is not about skins but SKIN. One skin. You made it this way, you put "skin" in the title. if you phrased your post in a way that would include all flashy skins, and THEN named a few examples, it would make sense. But you did exactly the opposite - you named a single skin, you want this one skin changed, and then if another similar skin shows up in the future, you will do what, make a new thread because this one doesn't apply to any other skin except Ezreal's?

So, you acknowledge the fact that there are things you could do to avoid the mentioned health hazard, which is what I've been trying to explain to your dense defenders, and yet, you "don't like" doing any of them? So, you consciously choose not to do anything that could maintain your health, but you expect RIOT to do everything they can because it's easier for you? That's my other issue, you're willing to put in 0 effort into anything, but you expect 100 effort from the company. Okay...

The goal of this thread was to bring awareness to the issue. It is one skin. For now. That doesn't mean that Riot never had epilepsy related issues in the past (they had) and that they never fixed them because they dont care about genuine feedback or criticism (they have).

And yes to the last question. Riot made the skin, the skin can cause health related issues to its consumers and everyone exposed to it, and they need to be aware of it. Riot has to take FULL RESPONSIBILITY for fixing said issue. I'm asking them to do someting about the skin effects, not to pay for the medical bills of those exposed to the skin effects.

dome025Jun 8, 20193 votes

Just want to let you know that your comment is the pinnacle of stupid sh+t I have read here. And it isn´t possible to write a longer comment for me without it getting deleted by the mods.

SugarliciousJun 8, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Just want to let you know that your comment is the pinnacle of stupid sh+t I have read here. And it isn´t possible to write a longer comment for me without it getting deleted by the mods.

Just want to let you know that if all you've got for me are insults without any argumentation, then your opinion really does not mean much...

dome025Jun 8, 20192 votes

I have an argument but it´s so basic and common knowledge everybody with an iq above 1 should be able to understand.

It´s his f+cking health. There is no f+cking "threatening vibe", he is literally forced to quit if he takes his health even rudimentarily serious.

Not to mention that you can discredit any detailed valid argument just because it "sounds threatening".

Example: Player behaviour s+cks and Riot does nothing to improve the situation that´s why I will quit if nothing get´s done. Oh sorry your argument is completely valid and you wrote a book about why but still the last bit sounds threatening so your whole argument is flawed and not valid anymore.

"then your opinion really does not mean much..." Oh how dare you? As if I holded the power to change the world because of my opinion and you just had the power to take this power away from me. Reality check: Neither my nor your opinion doesn´t mean much. But at least I can say that I write less bullsh+t than you do.

SugarliciousJun 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Well, I can say you're full of bullsh+t as well, but again, opinions, opinions...

And no, he is not forced to quit, but you obviously haven't understood what I wrote (and you call me stupid, lol). I explained it clearly that he CAN still play, he just has to ban this one champ if he doesn't want to risk this one problematic skin. But instead of acknowledging that, he jumps to "I will quit" right away. So, your "argument" is invalid, or maybe I actually do need 1 IQ to "understand" it.

dome025Jun 8, 20193 votes

" I explained it clearly that he CAN still play, he just has to ban this one champ if he doesn't want to risk this one problematic skin." Oh they brought bans to aram back? Or what happens if they create other skins with the same problem? Does he get an additional ban then? Does he have to waste his ban now on a champ which might be weak or which he counters just because he can´t play the game otherwise (yeah this one would be a minor problem compared to the others)? Has blind pick bans now?

Perhaps you get now how stupid you sounds with "jUsT bAn tHe cHamP loL". It can only be a temporary solution until they fix the issue but not a longterm solution.

You could say Riot isn´t forced to change the skin so it doesn´t cause problems but then he also shouldn´t be forced to ban a champ because it could cause health problems. Not to mention that he is literally forced to quit if he is an aram only player.

Milky ThighsJun 7, 201920 votes

Hi, my brother and I both play League and while he gets the short end of the stick (easier to trigger seizures), just seeing this alone has given me a headache. I can't imagine playing against that all game.

HammermancerJun 7, 20199 votes

Jesus fuck riot,

mercanareeJun 7, 20197 votes

My wife has had a bad history of epilepsy, upvoting as this would make her pass out if she saw that. She doesn't play but frequently watches my matches as my hype man and watches loads of competitive play with me. This is a baaad oversight.

LexuallyJun 8, 20193 votes

{quoted}

My wife has had a bad history of epilepsy, upvoting as this would make her pass out if she saw that. She doesn't play but frequently watches my matches as my hype man and watches loads of competitive play with me. This is a baaad oversight.

That's so sweet [sg-soraka]

xCrashMcCloudxJun 8, 20191 votes

I agree I also tend to forget that there are still people who watch matches but don't play which is disappointing to me because i was one of those people.

xCrashMcCloudxJun 8, 20196 votes

I'm really glad it's not just me. I don't have epilepsy but this skin causes me killer migraines. I've been banning ez since the first time I encountered this skin. My dog usually lies with me when I play as well because my room is the coldest and he watches the screen and he has severe epilepsy. So I've been playing with my door closed just in case when I go into blinds to practice. But it's a struggle trying to avoid this skin even though chances of someone using it is pretty slim, it still worries me. Please fix this riot so I can play with my dog next to me again [sg-janna]

xCrashMcCloudxJun 8, 20194 votes

{quoted}

I'm really glad it's not just me. I don't have epilepsy but this skin causes me killer migraines. I've been banning ez since the first time I encountered this skin. My dog usually lies with me when I play as well because my room is the coldest and he watches the screen and he has severe epilepsy. So I've been playing with my door closed just in case when I go into blinds to practice. But it's a struggle trying to avoid this skin even though chances of someone using it is pretty slim, it still worries me. Please fix this riot so I can play with my dog next to me again [sg-janna]

I am realizing that this sounds whiny but my dog is my best friend and I love having him around, it just feels wrong to have to have my door closed to him just so I can play a darn game [sg-soraka]

JaspersJun 7, 20195 votes

Upvoted straight away, I noticed thing not long after it released when it popped up in ARAM. This was a lot worse in my game than this appears. Riot you need to look at it.

Swiff SwishJun 7, 20194 votes

completely agree, I saw this and was thinking the same thing.

OtakuBurritoJun 8, 20194 votes

They won't care until the lawsuits happen.

OneMustFallJun 7, 20193 votes

Of course we should take precautions to make sure people who have epileptic seizures aren't in danger while playing a video game. Of course we should. Of course...

BUT MAYBE...

If some blinking light that appears for half a second on your screen messes with your brain enough to cause you to spazz out on the floor maybe you shouldn't be playing the game at all and maybe the company shouldn't spend resources trying to cater to people with that severe a disability.

Trist mid opopJun 7, 20197 votes

{quoted}

Of course we should take precautions to make sure people who have epileptic seizures aren't in danger while playing a video game. Of course we should. Of course...

BUT MAYBE...

If some blinking light that appears for half a second on your screen messes with your brain enough to cause you to spazz out on the floor maybe you shouldn't be playing the game at all and maybe the company shouldn't spend resources trying to cater to people with that severe a disability.

You think the same about colorblind mode? Low resolution mode?

xCrashMcCloudxJun 8, 20196 votes

I applaud this comment because I know multiple players with epilepsy and multiple players who are colorblind. More people have these conditions than people realize and honestly riot's just losing money if they don't fix issues like this. That being said the comment Trist quoted is asinine. Why shouldn't riot try to expand their playerbase? I also know that people can have varying degrees of epilepsy and to the line "Company shouldn't spend resources trying to cater to people with that severe of a disability" sounds like something that would be said about a business that doesn't have wheelchair access. Are you going to say persons who need walkers, canes, wheelchairs shouldnt have access to these buildings as well?

FeuerMarkeJun 8, 20193 votes

Yup, I was happy for my brother when they came out with colorblind mode. Helped him loads.

xCrashMcCloudxJun 8, 20191 votes

Also helped out my ex who was Blue-green colorblind and riot uses a LOT of blues

ShadzMadzJun 8, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Of course we should take precautions to make sure people who have epileptic seizures aren't in danger while playing a video game. Of course we should. Of course...

BUT MAYBE...

If some blinking light that appears for half a second on your screen messes with your brain enough to cause you to spazz out on the floor maybe you shouldn't be playing the game at all and maybe the company shouldn't spend resources trying to cater to people with that severe a disability.

What kind of horrible thought is this? the dude's been playing for years he said it himself. and to be honest this skin IS a bit over the top with its animations.

OneMustFallJun 8, 20192 votes

{quoted}

What kind of horrible thought is this? the dude's been playing for years he said it himself. and to be honest this skin IS a bit over the top with its animations.

Actually what this really sounds like is someone seeking attention. There is more flashing going on in your average 20 second commercial. If Riot actually listened to all the attention seekers who were searching for flashy effects in the game that supposedly give them medical issues, there wouldn't be flashy animations at all. If something like that gives someone a seizure, they shouldn't be playing the game at all. And the game shouldn't have to be completely altered to appease them. This idea that it should is extremely self centered and arrogant and this entire post reeks of that. Now I imagine there have been some valid concerns in the past and well written posts that deserved attention about actual problems that would cause seizures but this issue doesn't look anything like that.

Riot has no responsibility to cater to .01% of the playerbase and center it's game design around the whims of those people. If there's a legit issue that would affect anyone it should be fixed but not every little minor flashing effect. People with epilepsy are responsible for themselves and again, if something that small causes a seizure in them they need to stop playing the game.

Ship it.

xDogMeatxJun 7, 20193 votes

that red flash hurt my brain. there could be a disable X colors/flashes option to avoid seizures. (no im not epileptic)

Frontline FuryJun 7, 20193 votes

God that effect bothers me despite not being epileptic at all.

JerrielJun 7, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Hello Riot Games.

I wanted to showcase that your Battle Academia Ezreal Skin has a high risk of causing Epileptic seizures due to its colour schemes, crazy dimensions and flashy lights. I have reported this to Riot Player support but they have dismissed me, saying this is a matter for the Skin Development team to solve. I don't understand why they haven't relayed the information to them but instead sent me here to report on it and hope for a response from a Rioter.

This is a very important matter because I had never had an epileptic seizure history in my 6 years of playing League, yet this skin might change that. If nothing is done then I am afraid I might have to quit play the game indefinitely.

Have a good day.

To be honest while working for a company that has different divisions they might be asking to post here as they may not have contact or a way to contact the Skin Dev team. Here they might be more active and easier to reach. I do agree that maybe there should be a "Disable special effects" or even "Disable skins" button but it could be a tool that is hard to make and would require a decent amount of time. With the finishes having been taken out of the game when they were launched for this very reason its kinda hard to be like "Hey everyone that bought our skin we have to disable it till further notice because of an issue that could impact player safety"

Thanks for the post and i do hope they find a way to fix this so you can keep playing.

Tin ObliteratesJun 7, 20193 votes

Holy shit I'm watching in the dark and that hurt my eyes.

dontspinbutwinJun 8, 20193 votes

I'm not epeliptic but the first time I saw this in Aram my eyes hurts. They need to do sum bout it

TsinganiJun 8, 20193 votes

Absolutely agree with the OP, if something's causing health issues then it should be removed or toned down until it doesn't. It's as simple as that.

The fact that some people came out of their way to either mock the OP and those like him in the thread by saying garbage like "just ban the champ" or "lol then just quit" or complain that riot has to "disable more stuff" because of people with epilepsy honestly just makes me sick.

Not to mention the fact that Riot themselves disregarded a health issue (and possibly a potential lawsuit) and told the guy to go to the Boards to contact a Rioter rather than using their actual support method absolutely baffles me.

Hope a Rioter sees this soon.

The EcdysiastJun 8, 20192 votes

It's the same red and blue flash from that banned pokemon episode. lol

EqualMisstayingJun 8, 20192 votes

Also, the people you are calling 'dense defenders' are clearly people who are health conscious and agree that something about these effects need to be done to avoid potential health problems and future lawsuits. Their hearts are in the right place, and should not be made little of just because they disagree with you.

Penta PenguinJun 8, 20192 votes

They added color-blind mode and removed Corki's PTSD triggering siren so just talk to the right people at Riot and you will get it changed

EqualMisstayingJun 8, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Giggle Physics,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=FlzfOEpe,comment-id=0020,timestamp=2019-06-08T16:36:08.791+0000)

They added color-blind mode and removed Corki's PTSD triggering siren so just talk to the right people at Riot and you will get it changed

I want to! I just need to know how to reach them.

Penta PenguinJun 9, 20191 votes

just keep bothering them everywhere