Ask Riot the Trust Question and Aatrox

Riot·Sep 15, 2016·15 votes·71,441 views

Welcome to Ask Riot, where we focus on your questions and give you answers.

This week, we talk about building trust and our current thoughts on Aatrox.

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What thing do you think Riot could improve that would go the furthest to creating a situation where the community trusts Riot again?

Editor’s note: Ghostcrawler recently answered this on his personal Askfm channel and we wanted to share an updated answer with all of you.

I think there are 3 things.

1) We need to talk more and earlier. When we maintain radio silence, players fill in the gaps with their own speculations, which are sometimes correct and many times not. I think we've struggled here to find the right balance, because if we talk about a problem too early with no solution immediately in sight, then it can feel to players like we are ridiculously slow or lack a sense of urgency. We look dishonest if we change our mind in the face of new information (another risk of communicating early). I recently mentioned that we want to update runes, but it's not going to be in the next several months. We will see how that goes over. :)

2) We need to shift our tone a little. The "brand" for Riot (though I kind of hate using that word) for a long time was the scrappy start-up that does things differently. When we were a little sloppy or brash or unconventional, it fit that narrative. But we aren't really that company any longer, and we need to figure out a new way to have a conversation that keeps our company culture intact but evolves to reflect the reality of the current size of Riot and success of LoL.

3) We need to deliver good shit. Talking about our philosophies and future plans can help a lot to fill in dry periods, but if all we ever produce is talk, then players will understandably lose faith. This has been a bit of a slow year from us product-wise, because so much energy has gone into the client update, and we burned some player trust with the loss of solo queue.

Great question and one we discuss a lot.

Ghostcrawler, Game Design Director

What are your thoughts on Aatrox? He feels like he is in a horrible state and could use some buffs or a rework.

We'd like to do some significant work on Aatrox when we do a class update to diving fighters. Aatrox has a theme with an enormous amount of potential. At present, however, his gameplay is a bit generic, doing a mix of things plenty of other fighters also do. That means, unless he's the best at those things, he's not going to be the best pick gameplay wise. Our goal with an update, as a result, would be to make him more unique, taking advantage of his backstory and letting him bring some distinct tools to a team.

We'd also like to do some work before then, both to help him out slightly (he's a little on the weak side) and at least start to push him in a more focused direction. At a rough guess, sometime around the pre-season is when we'll likely look at that.

Meddler, Lead Game Designer

782 Comments

syssunSep 15, 2016226 votes

Here is some ideas- Passive - Same Q- Same as before BUT CANNOT BE DISRUPTED

W- Every 3rd hit gives you life back(doubled below 50%hp, life the old one), you can activate this ability to also get more attack speed and percent of hp damage for the next 5 seconds.

E- Same as before, but give him two charges and in return reduce the slow.

R- Words of courage (based off of his lore) - All attrox's allies (or allies around him at the time of the ult) gain a "Pool" of extra hp for the next 5,10,15(at each rank) seconds, at the start of the ult all the allies pools would be at 25% full, but dealing damage fills them. (similar to attrox's passive) If an ally would take fatal damage during this time they will tap into the pool of extra hp to keep them alive. (pool reserve can be around 200hp-300hp-400hp) While tapped into this extra pool they gain extra attack damage and movement speed. (This means while they are below 0% hp remaining) At the end of the time any ally who is under 0% will die. Also regardless of lifesteal or spellvamp once you are under 0% hp you cannot go back above it.

Just some ideas, I believe this ult would make him unique and also it is based off his lore (inspiring solders to turn the odds in battle) Aatrox Tell me what you guys think

EnlegacySep 15, 201670 votes

I feel like his e needs more changes than that. It just feels like such a lack luster ability, with Aatrox being some primordial god of war, and he throws two thin sheets of paper at you. Other than that, this looks good, although he would need some serious number changes.

syssunSep 16, 20169 votes

Yeah I couldn't really think of anything else at the moment, I know what you mean it really does feel like there should be something else to it, maybe like a shield or something based on the amount of champs hit? If you have any ideas I would love to hear them! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

The HambooglarSep 15, 201611 votes

I think your ult is a very great idea, BUT remember, Aatrox's main role is a SPLIT PUSHER/Duelist, who takes charge of sustain and wins off by sustain. Changing his ult to that would make him more of a support/jungler. I think the idea is very great but it would be changed to either his passive or his E, because his W is perfect but the ratio's just bad, the Q is DECENT but lack luster because of bad ratio and costs is way too high.

syssunSep 16, 20167 votes

True I feel like it would change his role some, but when I teamfight with attrox I usually feel kinda worthless and not contributing unless im fed, I feel like this would actually add more value to him. I would love to hear any suggestions or feedback though thanks for commenting. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Mahou ChinchinSep 16, 201625 votes

My only problem is that lorewise, Aatrox doesnt give "words of courage." His presence makes people go mad with bloodlust, throwing caution and saftey to the wind, making them have nightmares about their own actions for years afterwords. Other than that its a cool ability that most certainly fits with his lore. As for the rest, i dont play Aatrox so i cant really suggest anything, but from what ive played AGAINST him, his q has a combination of low range and predictability that makes it ineffective as an engage tool, which it is meant to be.

syssunSep 16, 201611 votes

Thanks maybe Bloodlust would be a better name? [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

SchàdenfreudeSep 16, 20168 votes

It is possible he gives words of courage actually. Although he only speaks a few words that are unknown to us towards the army he is helping, there is a very real possbility he says "words of courage."

Washed Up MordeSep 16, 201611 votes

I think he needs a more dynamic change that stills fits his play style. In my opinion the Taric rework was one of the best rework Riot has done to date. It took the essence of what Taric was and kept what his kit did (Q is a heal, W is armor/shield, E was a stun) and the only thing they really changed was his ult. I think Aatrox needs the same kind of kit revamp. The only thing I think they should really really hold to is the Q since its oddly iconic to him (Like Poppy's E) and his healing (But in some more interactive way). His ult feels lackluster most of the time, his E is OK, but isn't fun or interesting to use. The charge system you brought up was pretty good, but I feel it should do something different. Since Riot generally has a problem with free healing, they like to give some kind of window that people can make use of/play around. So like how Vlad's non-empowered Q's do very little, but his empowered Q heals a ton. So maybe an Aatrox player could get 3 empowered healing autos if he lands his Q on a champion, or that he could have increased healing if he hit someone with his E. But Tl;dr his kit needs to be modernized and they need to give a conditional window that he can heal in.

syssunSep 16, 201650 votes

Maybe his E could open wounds on a champ and then when attacking the champ he would heal from their blood? That would make his E more valuable

NWAatroxSep 16, 201614 votes

I really like the Idea of his E opening his enemies' wounds and then abosbing it! i think it would make his gameplay more unique and exciting, as well as bringing his character a little more depth. Great Idea!

Maybe when opening wounds with his "E" the healing that he receives from his "W" (blood thirst) is increased somewhat?.

ElijiaSep 16, 20164 votes

I feel like all you did here was say "buffs pls." as opposed to actually suggest thematic or unique changes.

syssunSep 16, 20169 votes

I was just trying to suggest some changes to him without completely stripping all his abilities. I would love to hear any suggestions if you have any! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Rebel Phoenix17Sep 16, 201612 votes

I strongly agree with the direction you want his ult to go. Its a similar treatment to what Fiora got (although I don't think Fiora should have gotten it). His lore makes it quite clear, his biggest moment is to turn the tide of battle, not through his own dominance, but through inspiring those he is aiding.

Personally I want to see aatrox have something that further incentivizes buying lifesteal/attack speed. Maybe something with a new E, since his current E feels the most disjointed and at odds with his character. I tend to think of him as attack quickly, with less powerful strikes to sustain himself through trades, not as a real heavy hitter, or sitting back poking with range.

I am most concerned with him ending up too bursty, or with base damages too high (allowing him to build tank)

EDIT: Also I agree with NoNamesAlowed - Words of Courage is not a fitting name for the skill. but otherwise its great.

beast7982Sep 16, 20169 votes

I like what you are saying about his Q " The same but Cannot be Disrupted" [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

HyperionreaperSep 16, 201612 votes

This is coming from someone who mains Aatrox in normals and ranked. What I'd like to see done to Aatrox is this.

Q- Leave it the same, but take away the ability to disrupt it when he activates it. That's really annoying that you can disrupt it when it has a 10 second cooldown.

W- I like the life steal on his W. Simple as that. You can increase it early game, but keep it around the same late game, because it could potentially be too OP if you add too much Lifesteal late game. When you proc it, I think you should receieve a short attack speed burst with a small cooldown. You can't really dual with most champions early game with his current kit, so I find myself mostly poking away and by the time I get them down to low hp, my Bloodpool is almost out, and I really don't have the HP to win a fight.

E- Leave it the same. If you want to do anything with his E then take away the magic damage bonus, and add in a slight higher AD increase. The slow could probably be increased by atleast .5 seconds. Non any higher, because it'd be too long.

R- I agree with syssun's idea on his ultimate. That would be a really good idea, since Aatrox doesn't really bring much to the table with his Ult. To be quite honest, I only use it when I absolutely need it, because all it gives is attack speed, and does magic damage (remove this please). The attack speed really isn't anything to brag about if I'm being 100% honest here, so I believe it should be buffed just a little bit.

KEEP HIS BLOODPOOL! Do not remove his bloodpool, because that's what makes Aatrox, Aatrox.

God King AatroxSep 15, 201626 votes

I main Aatrox im pretty sure i have over 1000 games with him and a total of 530k mastery points on him.

The thing i hate about aatrox is simple: he's either strong, or he's weak. You either do exceptional with him, or you go 0/5 and get flamed at. His kit is original, and it fits well with his lore, the problem about him is that it's very easy to shut him down. The fact that his heal and damage on both his w and his damage on his e was reduced cut him down hard, especially the fact that his cooldowns are way too damn high. Take q at level 3 and then dont level it up until level 13 basically means you're stuck with one of the smallest gap closers that can be interrupted by everything on a 16 second cool down. You go in, you get bursted, and then you cant even dark flight out when you come back from your passive. His ultimate is beautiful, i have no quarrels with it. His e is a hard skillshot to land if you aren't using darkflight to engage to use it at pointblank. The thing with this skillshot is it gets narrower when you use it, but it doesn't do more damage depending on how far it travels (considering it gets harder to hit the narrower it gets it should be a risk/reward thing) you miss it, you lose health, you hit it, you do some low magic damage and get a 3 second slow max rank. which is also on a 9 second cooldown. I love aatrox with his theme, but his kit either needs hardcore damage buffs or you should rework him. The only thing i suggest is that you keep his core identity, which is that he is a blood god of battle, Keep him as a drain tank, but do something on his other skills so they aren't completely worthless.

ElectrcNINJASep 15, 20168 votes

It's quite annoying that you can get hit by Nid's spears or any other non-targeted projectiles while in Dark Flight. It seems his hitbox slides along the ground while he's animated to be in the air.

DústinSep 16, 201615 votes

I'm fairly sure that all jumps leave the hitbox on the ground.

SlashionSep 16, 20164 votes

Then I am fairly sure you forgot about Fizz

AwoofSep 16, 20167 votes

He gets untargetable, that doesn't really count.

DraclenSep 16, 20163 votes

Isn't every hit box in the game on the ground.

MasochisticAsianSep 16, 201625 votes

Considering Aatrox is one of the 5 the darkins, will we ever be seeing another Darkin in the future?

KriemhildSep 16, 20162 votes

The others are all supposed to be dead.

The HambooglarSep 16, 201611 votes

Did they ever state that? I thought they were nearly extinct, only 5 remained correct? And Aatrox is one of them.

AatroxicSep 16, 20161 votes

it's said that varus is a potential offspring from aatrox just by the similarity of the weapons.

TarzanESTSep 16, 20164 votes

Aatrox poked Ashe?

God King AatroxSep 16, 20169 votes

Aatrox is a legendary warrior, one of only five that remain of an ancient race known as the Darkin.

Fr0y0Sep 15, 201622 votes

O im early better say something funny Graves has a cigar item 3070 Graves like forreal riot this is exactly why the community has trust issues

EvilUnicornLordSep 16, 201647 votes

Community: Rework Yorick.

Riot: K, let's rework Yorick.

Community: OMG Y U REWORK YORICK?!?!

Riot: And this is why you can't have Doom Bots.

FireBanditZOSep 16, 20163 votes

I'm sorry, but, reworking Yorick was a great idea if it had been some minor changes to make him more playable. Riot has had an increasingly horrible track record of "reworking" a champ and making them so goddamn broken its not even fun and then nerfing them into the ground to the point of unplayable. And. They Alienate the playerbase of the character when they do things like this.

EvilUnicornLordSep 16, 201626 votes

The playerbase of, what, six people?

If they aren't accepting the fact that their favorite champion is outdated, then Riot isn't going to just cater to those few people just because they like the champ the way it is. Yes, nobody likes change, but as much as nobody likes it, change is good.

I can speak as one of those I-play-an-unpopular-champion people. I really like playing Galio (although I'm not a Galio main), his ultimate is awesome, he's got a great backstory, but I know that he's outdated and he's looking forward to a rework. So the best thing I can do is to not sweat it and be optimistic about the Galio rework up in the future.

Now when I heard of the Yorick rework, I decided to try out the old Yorick Mori before he's changed and I found out something interesting: he sucked and I didn't like him. His kit was odd, even more odd than Singed or Teemo. But when I played him after they reworked him, I really enjoyed it. He was better at laning, better at teamfights, very adapted to the meta, and he just looked and sounded really cool.

Obviously there's some few people out there who liked the old, outdated, weird Yorick. But he didn't fit, and Riot helped him adjust to the current League of Legends. And another really big example is Sion. A ton of people liked the old Sion, now personally, I just thought he was ugly. But the old Sion was even more odd than Yorick, it doesn't make much sense for a full AP champ to all of a sudden gain 100% lifesteal, and that's just part of his kit. Sure, it worked out just fine in his day, but his day is long past and he changed with it. Now he's made a mark on the world of League of Legends with his signature "COWARDS!" (and, btw, old Sion mains, don't be cowards who can't accept change).

We, as players, should probably look for the best or we're always going to find the worst. Riot's run the world's most popular computer game in the world for just slightly over 10 years! And they aren't stopping anytime soon. We should give them some credit, they've managed to keep this game going strong for so long and how? Change. It's nigh time we stop viewing that as a bad thing.

Trump4ReelectionSep 16, 20164 votes

Now now, as someone who's been playing since S1, owned and played every champion in league, and one who used to love Yorick; and who is also pleased by his new rework:

Yorick was a phenomenal champion in League. Here were his issues though: He was literally impossible to win a 1v1 trade with the moment he got a manamune, because it provided him insane sustain for spamming ghouls, he didn't have to build but 1-2 tank items and the passive 5% damage reduction-per-ghoul summoned, along with being able to clone himself to effectively 2v1 at most any time, and late game ult hyper carries for double lives (Cassiopia was the favored back in S2, but has also been used on Kog'Maw, Caitlyn, Vayne etc.) The issue, is Yorick was both incredibly boring and linear to play, and also very one or the other. If you could oppress yorick, he just stopped bringing anything but an ultimate to the table. If you didn't, your entire team couldn't trade with him, because he'd likely gotten too much CDR (Usually frozen heart spirit visage) so that you could just continue to spam ghouls, and stay tanky, stay healthy because his E ghoul was like a 5s cool down, and life-stole for you from a distance.

With new Yorick, there are clear periods where you should and should not look to trade with Yorick, his success depends solely on how you choose to play him in lane, as well as how your opponents play against him, and he's impressively balanced in terms of what he does (I think he's a bit on the strong side overall, but the new kit isn't stupid easy to use for the power gain) The way they were able to keep the speed up from ghouls, as well as lane sustain, and some time of AA reset still, but in a different way, and shifting power of all of his skills around was a great balance. I think the wall of souls is an amazingly versatile skill, using it as a trap, just as general terrain, locking your opponents into an arena with you, blocking jungle paths, etc. Tons of uses, as well as clear counter play, although I think they could make the opponents readability of the wall better. The ability to control your ghouls to an extent via use of your E is awesome, and the maiden of the mist (Ult summon) gives Yorick a powerful ult summon still, but in a very different way. At first it was a little wonky to understand how to control the thing, but I realized like ALL Yorick's ghoul control is done via E. It's actually been a really fun kit to use so far.

La BarbotteSep 15, 201618 votes

aatrox is my favorite champion, and where i think you missed the mark was in both his role AND his kit, Aatrox lore wise is the kind of godlike fighter than comes outta nowhere to turn the tides of battle giving bloodlust to the side he chose to help in order to claim victory. right now Aatrox is more of a split push / xin zhao type of guy who jumps in to initiate and tries to dance in the backline. what i felt like he should have been from the start was either a juggernaut or a support, and heres why ;

juggernaut - him joining a fight means a new raid boss has entered the battle and while even as juggernaut i would give him team oriented abilities he should feel like hes part of the team to back them up as they can rely on him to gain that courage to fight back again, right now aatrox either is a melee ADC to do dmg and sustain but cc completely shuts him down, his ultimate is meh just steroid no big deal, making his Q feel like the big BOOM of the engage, exept its easy to see coming and to either move out or cancel without aatrox being able to engage for a long cooldown.

support - (the role i'd see him best in)in my mind aatrox should be the kind of champions thats incredibly hard to kill as long as he can keep fighting (like right now) but should rely on his teams getting defeated to get his true strenght. meaning he would fit a support style of battling to keep low health allies fighting by either giving them lifesteal when they hit bloodsoaked target he hits, OR aatrox himself healing his surrounding allies when he fights, being sort of a fighting tank support, maybe giving auras based on bloodshed, things like the lower they are the more attack speed, life steal, spell vamp, move speed, they get etc

sorry for bad english and no potato <3 peace

AlaniSep 15, 20163 votes

nah man honestly i see him more becoming into a tank than a supp. they should just do something with that gains he get under his hp like the bar that determines how much hp he has when his passive comes up i think the more he has the more lifesteal he gets. his e should like be instant sword hit that slows and marks the target for bonus damage/lifesteal. his q should be instant honeslty pisses me off how he goes up then down. too much time wasted there and his w is fine. his ult should be like not a soraka ult but basically everyone near his raduis on team side gets hp back and on enemy side deal damage and everyone gains lifesteal for 10secs or however long

BurningCerberus3Sep 15, 201611 votes

Not so sure about Aatrox lore, but what if his ult was a stronger version of Hecarim W where the more damage everyone takes, the stronger Aatrox gets until he is the last one standing over everything?

Shenpie plzSep 19, 201617 votes

Aatrox in his current state is a generic top lane split pusher/duelist who gets ahead early or he falls off. The biggest problems with his kit are underlying problems such as a slow animation for his Q- which combined with being easily telegraphed and interruptible makes for a poor ability with too easy counter play. His W demands he is constantly in combat which in laning phase means he will be pushing the wave quickly if he wishes to sustain. His E is his most reliable ability, but even that is plagued with being boring/lackluster and also encourages pushing the wave. Aatrox isn't a really bad kit, but he isn't good against competent opponents. So here are some changes I recommend as a former Aatrox main...

GOAL: Create a rework Aatrox kit that is good in current, but still good and viable in future seasons in addition to bringing more variety of playstyle. NOTE: Values of abilities are up to change from balance department.

TL:DR Passive stays the same. Q stays the same with much buff. His W, E,and Ultimate are reworked. Q and E still cost health but to be determined by balance team by Riot.

PASSIVE: Stays the same

Q:ACTIVE: Cost Health on cast: Faster animation and possibly slightly increased range as it levels. This gives more incentive to level the ability based on the game and role (top vs jungle aatrox). With long base cooldowns and still remaining interruptible (but faster animation than pre-rework) makes it a balanced ability with counterplay and a lot of utility.** COST**: Health

W: PASSIVE: Flat hp gain plus scaling lifesteal based from bonus AD- the ability scaling in potency. Example at lv 1: on hit gain 10 hp + .3 bonus lifesteal (5% of bonus ad). 5% bonus ad for lifesteal does not sound a lot, but late game it rewards heavily to squishy AD heavy builds, while not encouraging pushing the wave too hard in laning phase and doesn't overly reward Aatrox for playing passive. ** ACTIVE: Cost Health on cast:** Aatrox swings his blade in a 3 strike flurry. Each hit dealing additional physical damage. Animation being faster based off attack speed.

E: ACTIVE: Cost Health on cast: Aatrox cleaves the area in front of him twice in a cone swinging from side to side dealing physical damage. If a target is hit by both swings they are slowed by 30% for 1.25 seconds. Animation being faster based off attack speed.

R: ACTIVE: No cost: Aatrox bursts into a fury fearing enemies in a nearby (short radius) for 1 second doing damage (base) plus his half current bloodwell. Aatrox and nearby allies also gain 20% attack speed (medium radius). Example at level 6: 1 second fear 60 base + half of bloodwell. +20% attack speed to himself and nearby allies

set435Sep 15, 201616 votes

The moment we trust Riot is when URF is back

DragonismSep 15, 201641 votes

URF should be coming back in about 2 weeks

MootismaSep 15, 201613 votes

all random isnt the same

miniZerglingSep 15, 201675 votes

It's not. It's better.[slayer-jinx-wink]

QazertlandSep 16, 201646 votes

URF you say? How about Doom Bots. That was one of the funnest modes they've ever put out. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

SoulSmithySep 16, 201615 votes

if they made aatrox a support id be highly upset... and one idea riot had was to make the aoe on his ult a fear kinda like urgot has which i thought would bring a really cool way to make him useful in a teamfight

Xemnas07Sep 16, 201614 votes

Wait did i miss something? Something big? Is riot's trustworthiness actually being doubted by the community?

Wert the WackySep 16, 20163 votes

I don't know, I was confused by that too.

Soft BrainSep 15, 201611 votes

THE ONLY FUCKING BUFF ANYONE NEEDS IS GRAVES. GIVE HIM HIS GOD DAMN CIGAR BACK. I mean, at least as a skin option. Or as a reward for being level 7 mastery. Graves item 3637

miniZerglingSep 15, 201642 votes

He vapes now. VAPE NAYSH YALL item 3113 Graves

Nightshade X13Sep 16, 20164 votes

See, this would be fine, for them to say Graves vapes now and be able to maybe get away with it a bit more, if they didn't still have things like Gragas, Esq. that still very clearly has a cigar. To a lot of people, that bit is a slap in the face, because they couldn't leave Graves alone with his because it was sending the wrong message about smoking. On a second point mentioning Gragas, he's a drunkard, an alcoholic, and they're not doing anything to change that when it sends the wrong message either.