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Should you take Baron?

Riot··1 votes·43,030 views

Highlights

Quick -- what’s worth more, 5th Dragon or an Inhibitor plus Baron? With every teamfight won comes a window of opportunity to take an objective, but that window shrinks with each passing moment. In this video, Pants are Dragon goes over a point-based system that assigns a value to every objective in the game. Using this system as a guideline, you’ll be able to quickly determine the best choice any time a window of opportunity opens for your team.

How do you decide which objective to take next? Let us know in the comments below!


About the Creator

Pants are Dragon, a Challenger Jungler in NA, has been playing League since Season 1 and making guides since Season 3. Over the past two years, he's published over 100 educational videos, ranging from quick champion guides and soloqueue top picks to overall metagame analysis. His number one tip for getting better at League is "to blame only yourself and learn from your mistakes. Try to improve at the game instead of trying to win."

Learn more about Pants are Dragon via the links below!

86 Comments

Pants are Dragon103 votes

Hey, big thanks to riot for showcasing this on there front page! I'll be hanging around to check the comments and try to see what you guys have to say :)

DjQuangSter10 votes

Love your videos (mostly Champs that Start with the Letter), they are so well done and very educational. The tips are straight forward easy to follow. Keep on the hard work...

PS: You should stream more. :P

Xithek3 votes

Thank you for making this video. It is so hard to convince teammates to take towers over dragon early. I've had a few games where the team lost towers and then once we got back on our feet they'd go for dragon and then the enemy jumps farther ahead because we don't have the proper objectives prioritized.

Roamin3 votes

Very well done video, it's a simple, easy way on the priority of things and positioning. Nice gameplay too!

Count Buffon3 votes

I think Dragon 4 is slightly more valuable than Dragon 2 because you know that you will have a lot of map pressure five minutes later when the respawn is imminent. Map pressure isn't as good as the actual buff, but going from 2 to 1 away is a much bigger deal than going from 4 away to 3 away.

I guess it's also a bit complicated when you consider that dragon/baron is a shared objective, while towers have separate supply pools for each team. Dragon 2 is worth .5 points to you, but at the same time, you're delaying the enemy's Dragon 3, which is worth 2 points to them. It's probably not as simple as just adding points, either, but it's not the same as stealing Dragon 2 to get your Dragon 2.

Unumalum3 votes

One big point you forgot to consider is team comp.

If you're a melee comp that wants to fight but can't siege well, then playing around baron and dragon and contesting enemy attempts at these objectives can often be the best way of winning. If you try to push waves as a melee fight comp without someone who can tank the tower indefinitely, then you'll probably lack the form of hard engage and kill pressure needed to win a fight under tower. This is because the enemy will have time to poke you while clearing waves safely from under their tower. Your team would have to take tower damage, plus kill the enemy team from full health, all while your tank is limited in movement if he has to hold tower aggro should the fight split. It also limits who can engage first, as this is the easiest way to ensure your tank gets tower aggro. This can be extremely hard to win a tower siege in this case, and makes fighting for other objectives much more enticing as you don't limit your tanks movement, or take extra damage. In this instance, dragon and baron numbers become inflated, while towers can be daunting to take against even one or two defenders.

If you're a poke comp without much of a tank then taking baron can be very risky, and often just grouping and poking as 4 or 5 is enough to get everything up to an inhibitor tower. After this point, split pushing or hopefully the gold difference can allow your team into the base. If you try to take baron as a poke comp and either lose the fight, or the buff to the enemy team, you might throw the game altogether. Losing baron as a poke comp (especially an AP poke comp) can make pushing waves impossible, and can also provide more cover for the enemy team to hold a siege. In this case the first, third, and fifth dragon are inflated, as well as all towers, while baron takes a massive hit.

If you're a split push comp then it really comes down to what split push you're doing (1-4, 1-3-1, 1-2-2, 1-2-baron sneak, etc.) and what you think you can get away with depending on all other factors, as well as what would benefit your team's win conditions should they change over the course of the game. This can lead the numbers to swing rapidly on a game to game basis, if not minute to minute basis within each game. Maybe you know you're not going to be fighting much, but rather applying map pressure as 3, and then letting the other two split push down towers - guess what: Dragon 2 and 4 don't suck so much now. Maybe you want to group a bit more after the outer towers are down, but your Fiora is doing great at 1v1 or 1v2ing top - well then: ward up the enemy jungle, grab baron when it's safe, and go end the game, because baron is now the only thing you'll need to do so.

DDRCrono1 votes

Good guide! Just a couple of comments:

  1. Would have liked to see you compare how to 'tiebreak' stuff that's event. (Ex inhib + baron vs 5th drag)

  2. I feel like 4th dragon being only 0.5 is a bit low, not because of the value of 4th dragon itself, but because it sets you up directly for the +10 point 5th dragon. Would I rather take an outer top turret or get 4th dragon? My intuition says setting myself up for a potential 5th dragon in 5 minutes is more valuable. I feel like it could at least be worth 2 points given that it sets you up to potentially get 10.

MechaLara1 votes

Also 4th dragon helps you to do baron more easily due to the extra damage on monsters.

Invadergir1 votes

Pants are BMing in this vid? Also, report gleeb for feeding...;-).

Spoony B4rd1 votes

I picked up and learned Jungle Eve watching your videos back in season three and have really improved my play since. Glad that you have been doing this for so long =)

Ex3cUtIoN1136 votes

I always keep my pants up. It seems I need to let them start dragon while I play.

Jétt4 votes

Logged in to upvote this

shoten19793 votes

Same

TheBlackLuffy22 votes

This person in the video clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. Don't you know that Dragon is CLEARLY more important than Towers and even an Inhibitor? When ever its up. Go for it. Duh. Like its obviously why people in Bronze drop what they are doing to come secure every single Dragon when its up.

League of Dragons is more like it.. Sarcasm

Slashion8 votes

The mindset of almost all losing teams^

(logged to upvote)

Festive Bear1 votes

I was ready to make a hate comment but then i saw the sarcasm,

Eilynne3 votes

Only thing I drop what I'm doing for, is stealing Kindred's passive spawn monsters. Cause let's be real, that's gotta be +11.

Ronaldin18 votes

"Or hey, just don't."

Byakuren Hijiri2 votes

Was that a...Sky reference?

Festive Bear2 votes

Of course, who else says that lmao

GalaxyNinja451 votes

Me

Byakuren Hijiri1 votes

{quoted}

Of course, who else says that lmao

2 true

TheLordPresident4 votes

One factor I'm surprised he didn't mention was the fact that ending the game is the most important objective. It seems pretty simple, but you'd be surprised how often people accidentally extend the game by taking baron instead of winning after a team fight, and then end up losing. Of course, this isn't to say that if the enemy team is about to come up, you should try to end (since you're all probably pretty low after the team fight.)

Pants are Dragon3 votes

people probably don't realize they can end it if they do baron, i mean EVERYONE WANTS TO WIN and that's why they are getting objectives, so they can win eventually

A Cute Snek4 votes

Report Pants are Dragon >:(

How dare you forget the most important objective of all

Scuttles item 3070

Slythion3 votes

Hey Pants, I was wondering if you factored in devourer stacks when giving these objectives points. Rift Herald and Dragon #2 seems like it should be worth a little more if you can give your jungler those 5 stacks, perhaps you can explain your thought process?

TheLegendaryJerk3 votes

#Asshole-jger-who'd-use-ult-to-take-red-buff-from-adc

Jayle273 votes

but, red buff is the jungler's though....Kindred Khazix MasterYi Rengar

GenghisEmo2 votes

And ppl will still mess up which to do. Such is low elo XD.

Bieza2 votes

is anyone else laughing at how his team has lulu, jax, graves, mf and a brand. Like what in the world is this team builder?

The Duelyst2 votes

MF & Lulu Botlane, Jax top, Graves Jungle, Brand Midlane. Its a normal team composition that is not all that surprising considering Graves is used as a jungler just as often as he is used as an adc nowadays.

mundean1 votes

According to champion.gg, Graves is played 80.3% of the time as an ADC. Then again, that's from a data set of Plat+ players in Ranked.

GrumpyButtercup1 votes

Is that data since his rework only? If it is over the entire lifespan of the champion, then those numbers would obviously be skewed.

Bieza1 votes

yes, its quite desirable. I'm saying it's funny cuz they werent banned.

TheRealStrider3 votes

Welcome to Preseason, would you like some meta with your fries? ...Oh, wait, sorry, we've run out.

thine swamp2 votes

No, because it has a home friends and a family.

Spiritclaw2 votes

Pants are Baron... amirite guys? Nevermind.

Gideon of Joash2 votes

What about champions with a bounty?

Pants are Dragon4 votes

kills are used to get objectives usually

swizl2 votes

good to see someone local on the front page, keep on representing Winnipeg :)

FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes

[deleted]

Honeybadger21981 votes

what you just said is that dragon takes less time to kill than baron. argument has been nulled...

by the way i know what you meant but thats not what this point system is based on. it is no based on getting dragons 1-5, it is deciding: okay you have 4 dragons and both are up and both are safe which do you take? normally this doesnt happen as if you can take baron or 5th dragon you can probably take both since its late in the game but thats the idea. TLDR its not dragons 1 through 5 or 1 baron its dragon 5 or 1 baron

FlameHalbrdOkido5 votes

{quoted}

what you just said is that dragon takes less time to kill than baron. argument has been nulled...

by the way i know what you meant but thats not what this point system is based on. it is no based on getting dragons 1-5, it is deciding: okay you have 4 dragons and both are up and both are safe which do you take? normally this doesnt happen as if you can take baron or 5th dragon you can probably take both since its late in the game but thats the idea. TLDR its not dragons 1 through 5 or 1 baron its dragon 5 or 1 baron

ur right. sorry i commented before i watch the video, ignore me and my ignorance pls

D I E G E1 votes

Huge breakthrough!! congrats on the in-client showcase. Keep the videos coming

Pants are Dragon3 votes

Thanks!

Royal Waffle1 votes

dragon 5 doesnt happen now. Games last anywhere from 20 to the low 30 mins. So unless u get drag super early and get all of them, dragon control shouldn't be that big of a deal. 1 point maybe. Baron and rift create more opportunities to take towers and therefore should be prioritize higher than drag. I would actually say hta stealing buffs are worth more than dragon 2-4. Buff control means vision and catch potential which turns into towers. easier to snow ball than team fighting of dragon when drag 5 rarely happens

Festive Bear1 votes

Drag buffs are still very useful, 6% extra AD/AP, 5% extra movespeed and the turret buff, their all very useful

Royal Waffle1 votes

not saying they are not useful but turrets > drags. Top tier players don't let games go that long. so prioritizing dragons right now shouldn't be top on the to-do list. Drags are considered last resort. If you can't get a tower then drag would be next best thing. Drags are mostly taken now at 10-15 mins. Which makes 3rd drag already in the 30s. Games are usually over or about to be

66191767DEL11 votes

what? no. don't take baron. wth is wrong with you? what is this? 'should you take rift herald?' (insert kappa here)

EchoBlast041 votes

I really don´t think people pay attention to whether you are a tank when you get first hit. Like if you are a tank for example Garen and you are taking Baron a lot of people don´t realize that tanks should take the first hit am I right? So i´m just waiting there like ¨Ummmmm¨

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