RGM, IP, and tons of damage in Ask Riot

Riot·Jun 9, 2016·3 votes·73,409 views

Welcome to Ask Riot.

This is a space where we focus on your questions and give you answers.

What is next with Rotating Game Modes, what to do with all that IP, and why we use percent health damage are up for this week.

Have a question (or two...hundred) yourself? Head over ask.leagueoflegends.com and sign into your League account. Check out the Do’s, the Don'ts, and then ask us something. We’ll archive the answers once we’ve accumulated a few of them.

We’re committed to reading every question but can’t guarantee we’ll answer them all.

“Okay, why not?”

Some questions may be answered elsewhere or won’t be right for Ask Riot (we won’t be launching new products here or taking away from existing conversations, for example you can check out the round table video for information on Dynamic Queue). Even if your question isn’t the one being answered, we’re listening, and we’ll be sharing your questions with the Rioters who are working directly on the things you’re curious about.

When will we see new game modes in RGM?

We're still forging the path at the moment with our current stable of modes, and we’re carefully looking at how each one is received and how people are engaging with it. Unfortunately, we can’t tell you exactly when your favorite mode, like say Doom Bots, is coming back but we can talk about how we’re selecting each mode to include in RGM.

So far the modes we’ve included in RGM represent the widest spread of gameplay with strong engagement, URF for example, is a mode we consistently hear about from players, which is why we chose it among our first releases. That doesn’t mean RGM is a popularity contest. Any game mode that we've previously released is a potential candidate for the RGM queue. If your favourite mode isn't in there yet, there's a chance it will be eventually.

We also want to try and offer something that’s updated, so as we look at other game modes, it’s important we deliver something more than nostalgia. As you’ve seen with Definitely Not Dominion, we don’t just want to throw old modes into the queue. We try to keep everyone updated on what modes are coming in the near future - so make sure you check in weekly to see what’s coming up. – L4T3NCY

Have you thought of alternatives to spend our excess IP? (something different from champions and runes)?

We are definitely looking for opportunities to add new ways to spend IP. We frequently release limited-time summoner icons for IP, and recently added a major new outlet for IP that we believe will be compelling for many.

Our latest foray was champion mastery levels 6 & 7, which grants players new mastery badge emotes, new loading screen border flags and announcement banner upgrades. This enables players to show off their favorite champions through a combination of skill and investment. We wanted to make sure the rewards were accessible to all of you so we added the ability to use IP to get them.

Additionally, we know that for many newer players, the challenge is earning enough IP for everything you want to spend it on. To address this over the past year, we’ve permanently reduced the price of many runes, held rune and rune page sales, and added Party IP weekends. We will continue to look for ways to make things better for players across the full spectrum of IP wealth. – Wingfield

Why include percent health damage in a champion’s kit? Is it simply a response to the tank meta? Or do you want to design every champion to always feel like they can do at least a bit of relevant damage even if they are full tank or utility because you have found this to be more satisfying for the player?

We have four primary mechanics and we use them individually with the intent to help champions excel against different types of opposing champions. These mechanics deliver damage based off of:

Current health
Max health
Missing health
Scaling damage (based off of a percentage of missing health)

Let’s break each of these down.

Current health is typically used on tanky champions we want to soften up targets and set up allies for success (think Jarvan). Missing health works best when we want champions to deliver the final blow – assassins fit well here – such as Fizz. Maximum health is when we want a champion to be a threat to all enemies. Think of a fighter or skirmisher like Fiora, or for a specific ability that should always be a threat, Tahm Kench’s Devour.

A similar-looking but very different mechanic is used with abilities like Veigar’s ultimate that multiply the ability’s damage with the percentage of the enemy’s missing health – but don’t actually consider the enemy’s raw health values. This is a big difference because this ability won’t scale in damage as an enemy’s max health increases.

It’s worth noting this is a less-powerful mechanic as the ability has a hard cap on how much damage it can deal, such as double or triple the base damage. We like using this when we want an ability to feel great as a finishing move, but don’t want to be drastically changing who the champion is strong or weak against. Veigar and Riven both use this mechanic on their ultimates. Veigar excels at blowing up squishy targets (hence why marksmen so frequently flee the scene when he’s around) but struggles versus super tanky champs who can shrug off his ult. The amplified damage means he can more likely get the final blow on a champion but he’s still incentivized to use it on squishy enemies because at best, you are dealing twice the base damage which a tanky enemy simply won’t care about as much.

You also specifically asked about how we create kits against an existing meta. We don’t design champions based on a current meta. Why not? Well, champions take a while to develop, so when a champion is released, it’s a different landscape from when it’s originally created. – FeralPony

Please feel free to hit us up in the comments. Each of the Rioters who answered will do their best to engage in a conversation with you.

344 Comments

MansanaJun 9, 201660 votes

I understand the reasoning behind %hp damage but you can't deny that certain kits just abuse it way more than others. It's why Kindred is a monster, it's why Tank Fizz, Tank Ekko, and Tank Fiora at one point were a thing. You cannot just simply explain why you add it to certain champs without realizing how problematic they come to be. It's why Kha'zix execute damage was removed despite it being relevant to his assassination style of play. You are telling me that %hp damage is totally balanced when most of the champs that do have this mechanic have all been problematic at some point.

LumpyWaIrusJun 9, 20165 votes

Upvoted for a further answer to this

ZaradiJun 9, 201673 votes

I think the key thing to realize that you seem to be missing is that nowhere in the answer did they mention anything even relatively close to the word "balance". There was no actual balancing discussion being stated in that answer. The question was for an explanation as to why certain damage types and scaling amounts go with certain champions, and they explained their methodology for what kind of damage they give to different kinds of champions.

So sure, you can bitch about wanting %hp damage reduced/removed because it's problematic (and as a support main I would really love to stop being one-shot by literally anything with %hp damage), but this isn't the right question to bitch to.

inb4 stream of downvotes for people who want to circlejerk about %hp damage being dumb.

MansanaJun 9, 201615 votes

You are correct but the question that is being asked implies that there seems to be frustration with how often %hp pops up in a champion's kit. Something to definitely question when it comes to balance. If it keeps popping up, there is a problem with that system of damage. It's less bitching but more reinforcing the implications that %hp has made present into the balance of the game. Mainly because of fear that at some point if the champion does not have this mechanic it means they are less impactful. Notice how it takes a while for Riot to nerf the %hp damage aspect on some champs. It is certainly something Riot needs to keep an eye on.

Outta SippiesJun 11, 20167 votes

riot cant just remove an idea because people are complaining about it, think of how much the game would change, certain champs would become super out of hand without any max health damage in the game and other champs would become next to worthless to play. riot looks at the higher elos for balancing because the players in lower elos (like me) just aren't dealing with the champion efficiently, thus granting a bad reading on the champ. like master yi is rarely played in high elos because hes easily stunned then left there having wasted his ult and garen isn't played either because all you have to do is when your low health back and come back up, no need to deal with the execute ult till a teamfight where tanks can jump in the way and it puts a lot of pressure down on the garen to ult the right person.

JRobin31Jun 15, 20164 votes

RIOT hath spoken... %max hp damage is here to stay because some champions are supposed to be "a threat to all enemies" while other champions are only supposed to "excel against different types of opposing champions".

RiotFeralPonyJun 10, 201630 votes

I never claimed that these mechanics are "perfectly balanced" but I do think they are a totally fine mechanic to use though they do have risk as does any mechanic. Mechanics in all forms are just a tool. The conclusion drawn based on the correlation between champions with those mechanics being problematic at some point and therefor the mechanic is fundamentally flawed I just frankly disagree with. Quite literally every champion in the game has been "problematic" at some point, but you're right to call out it's a powerful mechanic that we need to careful with and has caused some problems. I'd also agree with some of the sentiment that we've been overusing the mechanic in general (in part due to it's success).

Kindred's I strongly believe is an unrelated issue. I don't think having 5% max health damage is really that important, it's more a really high level of early game dominance that tends to snowball games out of control.

TheOneTimeJun 10, 20164 votes

I would say that massive amounts of burst true damage or having access to true damage frequently in a kit is more problematic that %hp damage as its targeted at any and all champions on the rift, but what do I know, I suck and play for fun.

RiotFeralPonyJun 10, 201611 votes

True damage is a really, really powerful tool. As a result it's really dangerous. Combine that with % hp damage and you've got something that can awesome but risky as a mechanic.

KoboldJun 10, 20168 votes

If I may, while this may be true it also creates another issue entirely wherein the champion that has said mechanic must not have access to tankyness or have such horrible application of the ability they are a insta bursted champion else they can solo teams given a small period of time. (more so than even the most fed carries) Its a problem that Ekko an Fizz have atm (not as true damage tho) wherein the ease of application supersedes the need to build for improving the application of the damage. (neither build attack speed except possibly trinity force) compare this to Shen which has an extremely situational ability to apply his % damage and no way to escape to avoid retaliation after applying it unlike the two mentioned before. Another example would be Elise where she is extremely gated in application of the % damage via cooldowns. The problem lies with the frequency of the application of the ability and the safety of the champion, which allows the champions to build in direct opposite of the intended champion build as they have on par or slightly lower damage overall but are able to overcome their intended weakness through build path.

LunæJun 10, 201611 votes

cough Vayne cough

There's a reason I'll say a friend is "such a Vayne". Vayne can often abuse her %HP true damage to pull off great plays, such that there's often an apparent mentality of "Pfh, I'm Vayne, I don't need a team".

GigglesOJun 12, 20164 votes

{quoted}

True damage is a really, really powerful tool. As a result it's really dangerous. Combine that with % hp damage and you've got something that can awesome but risky as a mechanic.

Vayne ....

DocWilcoJun 10, 201611 votes

If things were perfectly balanced, they would also be perfectly boring. I think the fact that there is a large diversity in champions, even those who have similar kit, or similar roles, is exciting and keeps things interesting.

The fact that certain champions have powerful mechanics makes them popular, but there usually is a counter to them. See Fiona recently coming back to answer the Maokais and Trundles.

It makes pick and ban phases interesting, and the synergies between champions in team fights need to be considered against what works in the laning phase.

Yes, sometimes something is just OP, but that gets adjusted, which then shifts the meta again, which also makes for interesting times while people figure out which champions benefited from a nerf.

Diversity is key!

(See also pro players with the most diverse pools generally doing well in the long term.)

KrittyJun 13, 201621 votes

Actually, to the contrary - if everything were perfectly balanced, you would see even more variety. Many champions don't see the light of day simply because they aren't viable in a pre-conceived meta. If everything in the game was balanced, the meta would be defined by what was played in that particular game, rather than by which champions are stronger/weaker on that particular patch.

Sir GankselotJun 13, 20168 votes

I understand why you guys use % max hp damage but honestly I prefer the Giant Slayer way handles it. As a tank main it is much nicer to make foes choose who to be effective on rather than just being generically efficent

ModCaptainMårvelousJun 9, 201632 votes

We are definitely looking for opportunities to add new ways to spend IP. We frequently release limited-time summoner icons for IP, and recently added a major new outlet for IP that we believe will be compelling for many.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

The IP mastery thing is a slapdash addition to a poorly implemented system of using essence. More so, you have so many possible IP sinks and yet you keep making them RP only. Every time you put 3-5 icons in the store, only ONE is worth IP. That's not an IP sink, that's an IP thimble.

It disappoints me that this is the best solution you can come up with for IP sinks at the present time. Chromas, Hextech Crates/Keys, even skins for massive IP costs (Like 20k for a 975 skin) would all be better. Yet here we are, stapling champion mastery to IP.

You guys can do so much better.

woodvsmurphJun 13, 20167 votes

They need real money too. If everything were free provided you play long enough, they would go out of business. They are actually more than generous with the crates and keys that they added to the game. A bit stingy with essence, but otherwise a very nice rewarding system. Think about how much people pay for xbox or playstation online subscription. How much does Disney charge for battlefront to play online? Riot doesn't charge any subscription and they still give ways to earn skins and such for free. They may be trending towards making more poorly balanced meta's with "flavor of the month" champs that are grossly overpowered, but they are definitely much nicer than most games of such popularity and quality about making the game affordable.

ModCaptainMårvelousJun 13, 20167 votes

Oh my god this argument is terrible.

Riot pulls in billions of dollars from microtransactions. Champions, rune pages, skin and more are all extremely expensive. They are not some generous saintly company squandering for cash. Riot makes MORE than enough to not only run League but expand the game and their company to astronomical proportions. Even the stuff they have for free is locked behind a pretty damn heafty grind due to low IP gains outside of rare double IP weekends.

More so, "poorly balanced metas" is flat out wrong. Hell, if anything these metas have more diversity and more balance than previous seasons by a long shot. You could even argue it was worse before when they releases champions every two weeks that drastically shook up the meta.

At the end of the day no, Riot is not struggling for money. When you have competitors giving out more for less, it's time to take a look at how you run things.

minimars47Jun 14, 20161 votes

Logged in to up-vote this. Riot makes waaayyy more than enough money off of microtransactions. They even rake in tons of money from world events and LCS games. The argument that RP sales are even 10% of their income is ridiculous.

Kobra KaisaJun 15, 201610 votes

I would like to make a comment on how riot makes money. First off, yes Riot makes a ton of money off of micro transactions. HOWEVER all core parts of the game from champion buying to rune pages, runes (which are now drastically reduced in price) are all IP based (runes can only be bought with IP). thats where the Free to play logo comes from. You dont have to spend a dime to play if you dont want to. Furthermore, Riot isnt inclined business-wise to include more free content because as a business it does not gain them more profit (the main goal of any business is to gain profit btw.)

These additions to cater to the veterans who want to spend their IP mountains on cosmetic and reputational upgrades are fanservice and really just good publicity for the company to show that they give a shit beyond making a that shiny 1billion dollars that was previously quoted.

In regards to the mentions of LCS and events I would argue that riot actually LOSES money on having esports events because they are funded out of the companys pocket. Also, before you say that "well they charge for admission to the stadiums!" yes. they do, you know what they also do? Stream it. online. to MILLIONS of players for FREE. They could be charging money to veiw pro streams or by putting up ads. Its hard to understand this but you do have to consider what the company pays to build all these venues and shlep these players to events, cater them and pay all of the employees to make sure they run smoothly. the ticket sales would never cover the costs for that.

In conclusion, Does riot make a ton of money? yes. they do. enough to make a profit and justify all of the services and catering to players that they currently do. But they make money soley on the players desire to customize, brag, and show off their personality through skins, wards, and other services.

ßlueshiftJun 14, 20163 votes

I wholeheartedly agree with you, but just making champion skins worth IP is not creative enough. Yes I think that is a necessary idea, but considering the lack of creativity Riot has sometimes we need new things to buy. Something completely new that nobody has heard of before in a MOBA.

CytoplHazimJun 9, 201629 votes

Is Velkoz the holy flying spaghetti monster? I have been worshipping him since I am a loyal Pastafarian

MorgulNickyJun 10, 20166 votes

Rito is pastafarian confirmed????

WoodmananJun 14, 20167 votes

FSM Vel'koz skin confirmed???

Fuzzy DongerJun 15, 201610 votes

The FSM defiantly manipulated riot with his noodily appendages when they were developing him. The FSM must have felt that League needed a symbol of his Great Pastaness and thus Velkoz was born, though I'm sure the FSM was disappointed in the amount of noodles they attached to him sigh. Also, we can't forget the FSM must have touched riot and moved them to make Gangplank relevant again, because we need more of his prophets on the rift. Ra-men.

Lady HammerlockJun 10, 201618 votes

Will we ever see black market brawlers again?

Reaper8512Jun 9, 201612 votes

I am still waiting for Nemesis Draft to return, it was so fun playing low playrate champs against each other, and seeing what most people view as weak.

RiotL4T3NCYJun 9, 201614 votes

I remember getting lots of Taric. I'd like to see people try handing out Taric again post-rework. :)

ZeboMadManJun 10, 20162 votes

I kept getting Nami adc in Nemesis Draft... Why would they let this monster occur....

Necro Warrior87Jun 10, 20163 votes

this sounds awesome lets bring back nemesis draft.

Reaper8512Jun 9, 20168 votes

Waiting for nemesis draft to return, i rank it 3rd best mode after urf and all for one

KinderJun 9, 20166 votes

So why do tanks need to %health damage though to set it up for allies? Is Maokai's point+click root, knockback and slow(s) not enough to set it up for allies?

Besides, you're also giving tanks a LOT of base damage. Sion Q, fully charged (not that difficult to get of if chaining off of ult or when getting a gank) has 300 base damage. That's the same base damage as some ults.

The Crescent SunJun 10, 20164 votes

I do agree his Q damage is nuts, but I think it's to make up for the fact his E is only good for a slow and his W is burnt through in early game(mid game if he is behind). Quite frankly Sion needs it since he falls off as a damage dealer late game and his utility isn't really that good.

KingnewgameplusJun 11, 201620 votes

Well to be fair I can do taxes before sion can fully charge his q.

ThwartinMaPlansJun 9, 20165 votes

Are we going to ever get a skin reflecting how Yasuo looked during the taliyah lore?

RyannihilatorJun 9, 20161 votes

Well..... Yasuo looked like Yasuo when he met Taliyah, besides that hair. Making a skin for Yasuo that's just his hair not tied up is in my opinion bland considering almost everything would be same with that skin and the classic skin.

ThwartinMaPlansJun 10, 20164 votes

He's in the mountains during winter. Also been wandering for a while. I would imagine he'd have a very different outfit than normal. Kind of like arctic warfare caitlyn. Hell you could even give him a serious beard for fun. Some beat up fur coat...just throwing ideas for fun...

RobotRevolutionJun 9, 20165 votes

Is there any chance of the RGM being available full-time rather than just on weekends?

RiotL4T3NCYJun 9, 201618 votes

The RGM queue has been quite healthy, so we're investigating extending it to Monday going forward, making for a total of 4 days each weekend. As with all things, this is subject to change (you never know sometimes with gamedev) but we're looking into it right now. Soon(tm).

RobotRevolutionJun 11, 20163 votes

{quoted}

The RGM queue has been quite healthy, so we're investigating extending it to Monday going forward, making for a total of 4 days each weekend. As with all things, this is subject to change (you never know sometimes with gamedev) but we're looking into it right now. Soon(tm).

Cool, thanks!

Wert the WackyJun 9, 20165 votes

Why no Poro champion?

RyannihilatorJun 9, 20168 votes

summoner 31 If u were on the enemy team, would u kill that champ?

GamingEelektrossJun 10, 20169 votes

Sejuani

MagfrysJun 9, 20162 votes

what is your guy's oppion on having multiple accounts (relatively same elo and mmr) so not smurfs just other accounts like tyler1 but not bought or anything leveled just for if they get banned or something

ddrox13Jun 9, 201619 votes

That would defeat the point of bans. Why would Riot support a workaround for their own justice system?

SnarfthesnarfJun 9, 20162 votes

What are your thoughts on Nasus and Sion (etc.) that have infinite scaling with damage and health? I feel that it seems too be too much of a reward for probably doing one of the most boring things in the game(at least to me)

ddrox13Jun 9, 20165 votes

Boring should not be a factor in how something scales. I consider Fizz and Yi "boring" to play, but I respect them scaling off playing well. Similarly, I think if a Nasus or Sion can have the map awareness to not fall behind to ganks and their team can keep enough attention off of them to get them to late game, then they should be rewarded with an unstoppable tank.

RiotFeralPonyJun 9, 20166 votes

Boring is very subjective as you rightly call out. That aside the one thing I'll call out specifically with infinitely scaling champions is there is a cool effect with how the game flows with the addition of "ticking time bomb" style champions.

They add a level of infinite threat and hyperscaling that pushes teams and players to action and will ultimately ensure the game ends one way or the other. There is the risk of excessive snowballing but I feel we've hit a pretty good spot with those champions where they can participate in the early game and still be serious threats in the late game.

ThalesJun 9, 20164 votes

They add a level of infinite threat and hyperscaling that pushes teams and players to action and will ultimately ensure the game ends one way or the other.

From Champion.gg's data, it doesn't seem that the infinite scalers actually notably hyperscale. Sion and Thresh fall off, and although Veigar, Bard, and Nasus do seem to do better as the game wears on, IIRC, that's a newish development for Nasus and Veigar. Am I misremembering, or do things pick up for all the infinite scalers once things get to super late game that Champion.gg's charts don't show?

CronoveyJun 9, 20168 votes

You're kind of comparing apples and oranges though. Thresh has infinite scaling, but his scaling really doesn't help close out a game in any way; it adds very little in meaningful damage and a small amount of tankiness. Sion is the same thing, where adding more HP doesn't really contribute much more than being a damage sponge.

Comparing them to Nasus, Veigar, and Bard who all gain increased damage is really a poor comparison. Nasus gains the ability to practically 2 shot a tower, Veigar gains the ability to nearly 2 shot most champions (which Nasus still gets as well), and Bard gains the damage on his autos that he weaves in between stuns to set up kills for his carries, especially when his autos are splashing in a cone behind his target as well.

Overall, those statistics make perfect sense. Thresh and Sion absolutely have to rely on teammates to help them close out the game in spite of having infinite scaling mechanics, while the other three have a much more direct impact on team fighting and pushing in comparison.