Now that you've had a chance to experience the preseason changes, join the team behind Preseason 2015 on the boards to talk everything from Dragon buffs to smiting champions and turret lasers.
The designers will be on the boards on November 11/24 starting at 2 PM PST. We'll see you there!
l Helios l64 votesI'm slightly concerned that junglers who were barely hanging onto the jungle might be forced out due to the new changes and the difficulty of the camps near the start. I mean, it seems the lack of two additional pots will prove to be a detriment to non-sustain junglers like 
and others. Now, junglers like 
and 
obviously couldn't care less because they have ways around it. I expect all 3 of these to surge in popularity, but it concerns me that others who are personal favorites may be forced out and rendered unviable in any position. Frankly, the only place I've seen outside of the jungle is as a support, which was not the most impressive thing in the world. It seems even there he's outclassed heavily by 
and 
. Now, certain non-sustain junglers like 
and 
will most likely still be incredibly popular because they're just good picks and versatile, but what will become of the rando picks? Will they just fade away like 
or are we to expect something like 
's changes to several others? Just some concerns from a jungler who loves the rando picks of his opponents.
Long live XD
CIockw0rk8 votesActually the more i play jungle... the more i can get to this conclusion. You will see A LOT more viable jungler this year... Sejuani is in a very good position btw. Nautilus... imo it is a bad champ. w/e ;)
I Main Swain21 votesreally?? I see sejuani as being literally one of the weakest champs in the game right now. yes she has her ult, but shes insanely easy to play against. so much so in fact that its hard to do well as her, considering how insanely horrible her early game is in every way imaginable. I still think her w or q should give her a % hp shield on hit, maybe even her e for every unit it hits.
Astrid11 votes is an insane tank.
What makes you think she should get a shield? If I read your idea correctly her Q/W would function EXACTLY like Evelynn's ult, which has a 120 second cooldown so I don't think Riot wants to make it 6 seconds any time soon.
Not even going to bother saying how broken her E would be if that happened.
I have no trouble ganking lanes as soon as I hit 6. It's like warwick. She just has a god-awful first clear.
How is she easy to play against? 550-something AoE stun that can stun your entire team and single-handedly win teamfights and 3 CC abilities is not something that you can just write off instantly.
She can be easily counterjungled but frankly, her job as a jungler is to get the other lanes fed and not to take any of the kills. Basically she's a second support. Maybe you're just playing her wrong.
Star Warden12 votesSejuani has a REALLY weak early clear speed and early sustain. Likely, she'll clear two camps and need to back. I could only pull off 3 in the previous jungle with a 
and a buff. In the late, she's fine, but she has no strong sustain and without that she'll be hurting.
ADVPwnage9 votesI know right I can't bare with the ridiculous changes they did with the jungle items... I can't play my main jungler
anymore because they took away
and that what made vi get her sustain.
The Second Wind8 votesWhy do you need that sustain with Vi? She clears the jungle quick enough to where her shield doesn't get killed off before the neutral creeps are dead.
REKT Ying9 votesWhat about Nocturne my bro played him last night and had a very tough time playing him, why'd they make jungling more difficult? It was already pretty hard!!!
ZaRaapini6 votesI want to know how you're having issues with Jungle Nocturne. I've been stomping with him lately. The jungle AS item with BoRK is so strong on him. Start Gromp with smite, and the rest of your clear is pretty easy peasy.
Naugs12 votesSo we are now stuck with a bunch of champs that have no place anymore. You cannot play a tank jungler anymore. As tanks rely on there abilities to clear but no longer have to sustain. RIP 
Saoquim8 votesMy last two games as were very fun and very dramatic. Both were come from behind victories, and I had the lowest number of deaths on the team. Tank jungling is viable, you just have to be patient. You can't expect a tank to snowball.
As far as clearing two, maybe three camps before going back to base, I think that is part of the design of the new jungle. Two camps gives me enough gold to upgrade 
and pick up some more 
. Then I get red buff and might not even need the pots. The jungle is no harder or easier after that than for other champs.
Maybe the time spent going back will leave me a little behind. But I know the other jungler also has only two health pots, and he's gonna need to upgrade his machete soon. The jungle is tough, but fair, and I think we haven't yet seen what's possible in the new jungle.
Yuki No Shijin55 votesRito plz...fix the problems with the client going on right now. The Q&A can wait!
aswuka6 votes:(((
RedSatyr26 votesRight, because something scheduled next week is going to dramatically affect their attempts to fix something currently. Not to mention it's not likely all the same people...
Max the Dragon3 votesand theres the fact that smiting the Red and Blue buffs grants the Mana/Hp Instantly instead of over 2 seconds like it says
Bütterfingers42 votesWE WANT SPAGHETTI MONSTER VEL'KOZ 
Throbbing Penis24 votesLeague is down leik if u cri every teim
Birdman Axolotl6 votesi feel you
its almost as bad as having or playing against satan 
indigosoulflame16 votesHello everyone. I guess my only concern is that magic resist item take longer to get the first item.500 for cloth.wich make magic user more powrerfull cause you can get armor for cheaper.you could have made the negatron same way the chainvest.so it be faster to get both.if im not the only one whit this concern lets push this cause magic is more powerfull right now at early game
NinjaBunny16 voteshey, on the bright side of all this sad jungle stuff... we can smite now
For3verStrong4 votesYup... Riot has heard our prayers!!!! WE HATE TEEMO
XFortuity3 votesEveryone grab smite and smite him at the same time... What will happen?
DillPickleOfDoom4 votes(16 + 8 * level) x 5...
Willynilly1715 votesI need your guy's help in making a THOR/Asguardian skin for Darius it would be an ultimate skin with icons Fly as he walks and runs Huge hammer for his axe Electricity flowing on him as he levels up it gets more epic thunder and lightening when he ults and hopefuly more if riot see this. spread the word and if you see this RIOT it would be an amazing idea for another new skin.
Soularous18 votesThey literally just gave him a legendary skin bro...don't expect this anytime soon, if ever.
For3verStrong10 votesEh i think that a Snow Storm Lissandra would be better :D! Plus its the holidays!!!
XFortuity8 votesYES!!!!! Someone who appreciates LISSANDRA!!!! And that would be awesome. Her q is like a blast of snow and her ultimate flings snow all around the place!
ParinoidPanda14 votesThe new jungle items are interesting. I noticed how they ditched the normal sustain attributes (%mob_damage=hp/mp) for the enhanced regen while clearing. Additionally, the 5 mob_damage_redux is gone and we can only take 2 pots.
This has made most jungler's first clear harder, particularly since smite isn't available on the normal mini-raid bosses (red/blue buffs) to reduce their damage. Are you considering either upping the regen or adding back some mob_damage_redux to compensate? Even just a little?
Before, junglers had 5 damage redux per mob, so you were saving ~15 hps when clearing camps with the AA heal on top of it. Plus 4 pots w/ ~480 hp. Now, junglers get 7 hps with no AA heal and 2 pots at 220 hp. Is the expectation that lifesteal/spellvamp Quints will fill the gap?
JimFriggenRayna10 votesDear riot I find it difficult to enjoy your new line of jungle gear, i feel your "diversity" strategy is backfiring. By making everything having little favoritism, you basically turn every item into an on hit quill coat, without the armor. Perhaps at higher play the potential is better manifested but us lowly bronze-gold players are roughly the same skill but not the same experience and coordination. Are you just trying to appeal to a select few? because unless your a sustain jungler or thrive with auto attacks, i feel you really pigeon holed maybe 10 junglers to be played now. WW, yi, those kind of people will do the same thing as before, make an item and get feral flare Jr asap. Other tanky junglers who grabbed thinks like elderlizards, or wraiths did so because we hated quill coat, and the early buy helped us gank. Now we have to sacrifice our smite rather then rush the farm, to use the item with any more potency. Also why would you make it so that grievious wounds is not able to be used by ad's now? I feel so much has been slapped together with out thinking what this does to the meta. Feels like another let down. As soon as I move on to the next least nerfed champ that new guy gets nerfed. Forinstance Kass was powerful then him gettign nerfed made jax more powerful, then jax got nerfed followed by others, its just a vicious loop of who counters you will be nerfed follow by your champ.
Hirok010 votesNew jgl hurts too much for anything but huge sustain/killspeed champs if you ask me. My mummy can't even keep up with laners, without ganking or counter-jgl, and he pretty much is forced to use 
for the extra sustain. My already bad mundo jgl went to a truly embarrassing place even for easy bot mode. Meanwhile, sustain champs actually have the freedom to pick up dueling smite 
and still be highly effective in the jungle anyway.
NMO Dax9 votesI'm still trying to figure out why 
was nerfed, especially when she's countered by a high number of supports, especially when played correctly.
I Main Swain8 votesQuick question: is there any change to sejuani in the works? considering the new jungle coming up and the greatest skin ever made coming out, I would think she would get some attention to her more severe problems.
For3verStrong2 votesI know i love Sejuani!!!! i think she needs some buffs or a rework! Same with Ashe! I love ashe but she is just not good anymore with all these other champions.
XFortuity2 votesThey should add abilities like AOE slow ice shot, or she should be able to have a bunch or different ice arrow abilities and her ultimate can enhance one of them
For3verStrong3 votesImagine this. Her q,w,e, and r all did nothing by themselves, but when you combine two of them it creates a type of arrow to shoot or an ability. So like you can combine a Q and a R to create a Stun Arrow. Or a W and a Q to create a skill shot ice blast or something.
XFortuity3 votesWe don't have a champion like that... I would love to see something like this!
indigosoulflame8 voteshello riot. my only concern is magic resist is expensive at start now and take more time to get.sugestion make the negatron avail like chainvest. so that early game the magic user don't have a upper hand. if im not the only one thinking that anyways
30562438_DEL8 votesThe new Jungle is AWESOME!
the following are a few concerns:
1. Dragon. The new dragon rewards make me very exited 
, VERY very very Exited.
I'm worried about the numbers though. Currently, with a +8% global buff to AD and AP, level 1 Dragon-Slayer looks like the highest reward, for its cost, in the entire game.
may need to be toned down a bit.
2. Smite Upgrades. As can be attested by many, 
Killing enemy champions with smite is very fun.
That said, the Upgrades to smite, Also, seem a bit over the top.
a 50% slow?--less would be fine.
20% heal on cast, AND area-strike, AND 1.5 sec stun?--less would also be fine.
Keep note; this is coming from the jungler.
3. Smite-granted Buffs from jungle. currently, you immediately gain the buff upon casting . Because of this, you don't actually have to kill the jungle camp in question, in order to gain the desired benefit. Furthermore, even if you DO kill the camp, but don't use , you get nothing. The latter may be annoying, but seems OK to me (ADC with kronks buff might be a problem). The former is a problem. Fighting in the jungle is now much more dangerous, for non-junglers. as much as I may like that myself, the fact that you can now smite the Red Buff for 20%-35% instant health regain, and suprize victory, seems a little off to me. especially mid teamfight.
Once Again, for clarity, I actually like these benefits. ALOT. and they are very fun as is, but I can see other people being very annoyed by some of them.
Spoopy Karas7 votesUm... I thought turrets.. were supposed to be scary? What happened to scary lazer beams doing all this true damage and rekting people up? All I see is easily shreddable towers being EASIER to take than before... You know when you see the adc not give a crap about diving an inhib turret, and get out with barely any damage from the turret done to them, there's something up.
cadensmagmite7 votesIf u dont fix the servers im gunna be sadder then
Chattyloid6 votesDear Riot we all love the new champion Kalista but it would be cool if you fixed the server and let us play her. 
For3verStrong4 votesKalista bonded to Yasuo in the bot lane :D?
raiderofthedark6 votesHi!
Is there going to be a change in the way people earn/lose their League Points in ranked games? Because losing the same amount of LP when there is a leaver in the team, VS a team that actually lost because they were bad is not fair for the former team... Not just leaver, there are intentional feeders, toxic players and what not... The whole team cannot be punished with cutting LP for one jerk. You can track progress of each summoner for every game, why not take that stat into consideration while rewarding and punishing summoners with LP after each ranked games? PLEASE Riot, pleaseeee bring that change in the ranked system and people will have better motivation in ranking up and not wasting time playing based on their chances rather than playing based on their skills...
Futbol Luva5 votesThis new jungle is pretty awful, these changes were not necessary to implement as the jungle was finally getting to the point where all junglers were viable at some level of gameplay. I more than likely will stop playing summoners rift until something changes to make it more fun and less complicated (it is clear competitive scene drove these changes while normals get shafted).
As for why the changes are bad:
Overcomplicated. As someone who has been playing for little more than a year now I finally got good enough to be a decent jungler with non meta champs. But of course all that progress is gone now which is very disheartening.
Dragon not giving gold and giving what very much appears to be an overpowered buff. Also, only grants that buff at 5 stacks of kills if I remember correct. This means that only a close game that lasts to the late game will see a team reach those 5 stacks, which of course will tip the game drastically in one team's favor, who will then probably grab baron with the power they got from dragon and become unstoppable. In games that are already losing, the winning team can secure 5 dragons early and it will effectively be game over with absolutely no way to counter play. For people saying strategy is important you sure goofed up big on this one.
Camps are too strong for non-sustain champs to clear well enough. Champs like Nautilus were already hard enough to play because how poorly they can defend against counter jungling attacks. Stealing a smite on red and attacking while you clear the camp is now a death penalty for a tanky jungler and will set them impossibly far behind.
Lee Sin is, once again, over powered for no reason thanks to jungle and smite changes. He needs some nerfs to SOMETHING.
Smiting champions? Are you high riot? This will lead to free kills on anyone with high damage ganks at early levels, snowballing lanes early. Nothing about smiting champions is a good idea. You can joke about smiting teemo all you like but eventually people will stop laughing and start realizing how frustratingly unfair it gives certain junglers huge kill potential on them.
Changes to MR are bad as many others are saying. AP ratios are very high and to give us such weak yet expensive null magic mantles is making it impossible to fight certain champions, especially mage assassins like Fizz or Katarina, depending on your pick.
By making the first clear so difficult you actually have hindered champions that were previously regarded as worse.
Congratulations on cementing certain champions that the LCS deems "good" into being the only truly viable champs.
isecoldfiar1 votesOver complicated? Maybe. But I don't think it's a bad thing. I actually quite like the new jungle. Rito tried to shift the focus away from the early game farming and made it so you actually have to recall instead of ganking 10 minutes in with no items.
So making the team that gets objectives have more of a lead over the team who can't is a bad thing? Thought this game was about objectives.
Basically at this point it sounds like you mean "You now get set far behind because you missed your smite then decided to stand there while the enemy jungler beat your head into the ground, it's all Rito's fault."
Of all the things to complain about, it would be that a champion has strong ganks. Ever hear of wards? They help you not get killed by Lee Sin,
So earlier you were complaining the jungle was too hard, now you're complaining it was too easy. Besides that, I still haven't seen any problems with that yet, but that might just be because I haven't played enough yet.
You were talking about the jungle. Not sure what MR has to do with the jungle, but if you could explain that to me that would be great.
The point was to make it more difficult. However, I'm pretty sure that the point wasn't to make sustain champions super op, but I'm guessing Rito will find a way to fix that.
Didn't think the LCS started 3 days after preseason started...
Futbol Luva3 votes. It is a bad thing in regards to the growing health of the game and encouraging players to evolve from casual players to competitive players. . That is not what I said. What I said is that dragon is now TOO strong as an objective. Riot has stated on numerous occasions that they want to give losing teams a chance to come back based on strategy. But a losing team can't strong arm a victory in a team fight against dragon, best they can do is prevent the other team from safely taking it. Therefore the winning team has a distinct advantage in being far more likely to get a very very strong buff. The game practically has double baron buffs now. I liked the OLD dragon objective as the early-mid game tipper. It has become a late game tipper due to stacks. . I was using a specific example, but all I really mean is certain junglers like nautilus would be eaten alive by a jungler like Lee or Elise that have strong dueling potential. You CAN'T afford enough wards that early into the game (first clear) and if you get attacked that early then non-sustain champs will be forced to back due to the new difficulty of camps. I could be wrong on this but it just seems like champs that already had trouble being viable because of this specific weakness are having an even tougher time than before . Go on ahead and ignore what I am actually saying, that smiting champions makes champs that already have strong ganks have even stronger ganks. This is good for top tier players, very bad for lower tier players, and bad because it heavily influences competitive jungle picks to be burst junglers. . I was saying that jungling is harder, ganking for some is too easy/dangerous to the laner. Pardon me if I feel the jungler should have to work for it more than diving in and dishing out guaranteed damage. . Just because I am mostly concerned with the jungle doesn't mean I am exclusively talking about the jungle. MR has taken a hit. It now takes 1000 gold to do slightly better what used to take 720 gold. (two null magic mantles) . Riot might fix it. But it probably won't be until next season as they attempt to shift the meta again. The problem is the base stats on the jungle creeps make first clear so painful for certain champs that I guarantee they will not be viable on a competitive level. . Last I checked the LCS "standards" don't go away once LCS stops. People don't start playing competitive skarner jungle just because LCS is on leave, they continue playing champs like Lee Sin or Elise, etc.
Now I may be wrong about these things. But this is my initial take on the changes as a player that has only been playing Normals with no intention of ever becoming competitive. These changes really hurt the game for people like me, less champs are viable now unless you are much more skilled or knowledgeable and/or can research into how to pull them off.
iMaB3AST5 votes 
Katastropheer4 votesI was level4 jungle diana when the time hit 7 minutes(when the two buffs respond). Usually ppl should be at least level 5 at that time and hit lv6 after killing 1 buff. = =|||
the crab at bottom river can be stuck inside the dragon pot. here is the screenshot: http://i61.tinypic.com/2lb98p.png. Is it meant to be like that?(i couldnt do the same thing to the baron crab though)
SweetCreamPie3 votesplayed a few games as jungler and its become so bad jungle camps need to be reduced in Hp. junglers such as 
and more cant clear jungles. i have been constantly executed by the main camps (red and blue) because i dont have enough hp to clear blue then wolves then go to red. I have been jungling for years and these recent updates have ruined the game for me. Something needs to change otherwise a large amount of jungling champions wont get picked anymore
Rikari3 votesIs it just me or are assassin's with strong engages and sustain like 
and 
going to dominate in this jungle with the new feral flare/armor pen items?
