Spring Split: 10 bans in pro-play

Riot·1/3/2017, 6:52:00 PM·12 votes·108,080 views

Hi, folks.

A while ago we talked about how we were considering changing to a 10 ban system. We’ve now got an approach we’re happy with that we’ll be using for Pro-Play in all leagues run by Riot. I’d like to share our thinking behind that system - what its goals are, how it will work, and why we’re changing bans in Pro-Play before anywhere else.


Why more bans?

In pro play we think pick/ban changes can lead to an increase in champion diversity and strategic play. We believe that offering more bans will encourage deeper champion pools with more individual champions seeing the Rift - and that it’ll make a fun and engaging draft phase for fans to watch. The plan here is to give each team two additional bans partway through the draft; this midpoint ban should encourage adaptability and reward teams who can accurately predict what strategies their opponents are planning then move swiftly to counter them.

We tested these theories in partnership with pros, trialed a few different solutions and took their feedback into account when introducing the new changes. As with every new change, we’ll be gathering consistent feedback from fans and pros as we roll out the extended bans.


Organized Play vs Matchmaking considerations

We think improvements to the pick/ban system can offer multiple benefits. Those will be somewhat different in pro play or other organized play, than in regular games though. In organized play you’re playing with a consistent group, you know who your opponents are and what they play, and you may even have played against them before. In matchmade games by contrast you’re adapting to a new group and don’t have any initial information about the team you’ll be facing. The needs and benefits of each context’s somewhat different as a result.


Organized play pick/ban - what does it look like?

The first part of champ select will be the same as at present, with both sides banning 3 champs then some picks. Blue picks first, red picks twice, blue picks twice and then red picks once again. After that there’s a second ban phase, where the two sides alternate bans back and forth, starting with red side. There’s then a final pick phase, where red picks once, blue picks twice and red picks one final time.

After iterating and exploring different versions of drafts with pros and semi-pros worldwide, we reached this version. We also made sure this change didn’t lead to an increase of time of the P&B phase.


What about regular matchmade games that use bans?

Revised pick/ban for regular play will come somewhat later than the changes in organized play. We’re still assessing what style of pick/ban changes makes the most sense for regular games, given the different circumstances (unfamiliar allies, lack of information about your opposition).

Shifting to 10 bans still has a lot of appeal, in particular because it allows one ban per player giving each person equal agency in the ban phase. Goals of bans are somewhat different though (e.g. you’re not banning the unusual pick you know the enemy team likes to run).

The amount of time it takes to get into a game’s also a particularly big concern for regular games, given we’re already getting a lot of feedback that time from pressing ‘Play’ to actually starting the game feels too long. Some of the options we’re looking at include reduced time in champ select as a focus as a result.

We should be able to talk more about our thoughts on pick/ban changes in regular play early 2017. In the meantime if you’ve got any thoughts on pick/ban, whether in pro or regular play, please do let us know!

Meddler

644 Comments

EndlessSorcerer1/5/2017, 7:18:06 PM195 votes

We’re still assessing what style of pick/ban changes makes the most sense for regular games, given the different circumstances (unfamiliar allies, lack of information about your opposition).

Personally, I'd be happy if regular games used the same format as professional games.

While you might not be able to target ban specific players on the enemy team, you can still adjust to the champions picked by your allies and opponents.

  • Has the enemy already picked an ADC? you probably don't need to ban Vayne or Caitlyn.

  • Allies have pick several CC-oriented champions (i.e. Ashe, Nautilus, Janna) while the enemy doesn't have a jungler/support? Consider banning Olaf and/or Morgana.

Lendar4101/5/2017, 9:55:21 PM79 votes

Here's an idea for 10 bans in regular play.

All TEN players ban at once. Here me out, similar to blind pick format just for banning. Each player selects a champion to ban and locks it in to finalize said ban. Any champion could be picked-to-ban until it is finalized, to prevent someone from hovering a champion and changing it last second to not get banned.

Example: A player hovers yasuo during the banning phase. Any other player could select yasuo, until one of those players finalizes yasuo as their ban. Thus blacking-out yasuo for every other player, and forcing anyone who had yasuo selected to pick another ban.)

Once the banning phase ends, simply start draft mode or whatever mode applicable.

Thoughts?

burning1/5/2017, 7:25:07 PM70 votes

Huhi doesn't have enough champs for this...

Hyperiön1/5/2017, 7:40:19 PM48 votes

First I want to say thanks to Rito for this amazing up and coming update, hopefully it reaches us regular folks soon.

Secondly, I can't wait for the day this hits the regulars so Yasuo will be deleted from the game even more :)

Jäx1/5/2017, 8:20:31 PM47 votes

Bans for TSM vs C9: Azir Zed Leblanc Syndra Ahri TwistedFate Viktor Orianna Cassiopeia Xerath

ZT Xperimentor1/5/2017, 7:09:00 PM47 votes

Now how about adding 10 bans for common players?

18 derps1/5/2017, 7:09:53 PM44 votes

This is awesome because they can ban all the mages so they have to play assassins*[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]*

SadKill1/5/2017, 8:17:18 PM28 votes

The amount of people who seem to complain before reading all of the post is appalling to say the least.

Lets Abort1/5/2017, 7:53:16 PM27 votes

Solo Queue needs to have 4 champs who are banned daily by the client. These were the top 4 bans from the day previous across all elos. Then continue with the standard 6 ban system. This results in 10 bans, automatically removing the obvious 4 who are deemed "must ban" across all play. I understand that every other day the same 4 might indeed just rotate, because they can't be in the 4 auto ban every day due to not being able to ban them in 6 ban system. This honestly makes the most sense, with the least amount of effort and change.

Lenox0131/5/2017, 10:15:02 PM19 votes

I like the idea of 1 ban per player in SoloQ, but I can see how it might add to frustratingly long start times due to Q-dodgers.

What about a change to the Q-dodge system? The further into champ select you get, the longer the penalty. Maybe add a minute for each champ locked in.

Ex: base is 6 minutes (first time), P&B gets to second ban phase (6 champs locked in so far) and last pick dodges because second ban phase removes their champ choice. 12 minute ban (6 base plus 1 for each lock)

Double it for a second offense - same scenario would be 24 minutes the next time (12 base plus 2 for each lock).

This keeps dodgers out of Q longer each time and makes it less likely that someone will want to dodge late into P&B. You'll still have people do it, but it will reduce their impact on the overall Q-times.

Presses Buttons1/5/2017, 7:38:21 PM17 votes

I hate the idea of segregation. One of the reasons that league of legends is so appealing is that we are playing the same game as the pros. Sure at vastly different levels in some cases but at least we are still playing the same game. It makes very little sense why both sides shouldn't get the 10 bans, there are around 130ish champions now. Well goodluck on everyone's climb this season and hopefully we all can get a ban soon. ;)

Doomhauer1/5/2017, 7:07:16 PM17 votes

k

ÿëët 4201/5/2017, 10:10:32 PM15 votes

The first thing I thought when I saw this was "what would happen if you banned all of the adc's?"...

78750242DEL11/5/2017, 7:49:13 PM9 votes

@Riot, let's fix the damn new client first before we shift into this problem. <3

CoyoteTrang1/5/2017, 7:09:21 PM5 votes

doesn't 10 seem extreme? why not 5 or 6. 20 champ bans seems like alot total.