Instant feedback powers up

Riot·Sep 14, 2015·7 votes·94,579 views

A few months back we launched instant feedback bans, an automated system delivering two week and permanent bans for verbal toxicity within 15 minutes of a game’s end. Instant feedback hits two player behavior design values, both punishing negative players and helping them reform their behavior.

Now, we’re bolting a few new cylinders onto the instant feedback engine. Fueled by your reports on what is and isn’t acceptable behavior (and some elbow grease on our end), chat/ranked restrictions and intentional feeding bans are now delivered and enforced within 15 minutes of a game’s end. Beyond those upgrades, we’re moving reform cards into the client and rounding out the design value trinity by rewarding positive players with an exclusive summoner icon.

In-client reform cards

Until now, reform cards were sent via email to offending players. Now they’ll appear in-client, delivering context on the punishment and displaying the chat log that triggered the punishment. Pushing reform cards into the client ensures players receive the information they need to understand the punishment and change their behavior for the better. Since the vast majority of you won’t ever receive a reform card, here’s what one looks like:

Chat and ranked restrictions

Instant feedback began with two-week and permanent bans because the negative behaviors spurring them (homophobia, racism, sexism, death threats, and excessive verbal abuse) are both overwhelmingly rejected by the community and hard to mistake. After crunching several million games worth of data over the last few months, the instant feedback system’s now ready to help reform more mild, but persistent negative behaviors with chat and ranked restrictions. Beyond the extra horsepower, we’re re-tuning restrictions to better encourage reform. Learn more about that effort over on boards.

Intentional feeding bans

Intentional feeders ruin games, so the behavior nets offending players two-week bans, and can escalate to permanent bans if the behavior continues. Through a ton of in-game metrics, chat logs, and even historical play patterns, we ensured the system understands the difference between intentional feeding and being crushed by a Riven main in solo queue. You shouldn’t need to worry about just having a bad game.

Like with all new feature launches, the whole player behavior team will hand-review the first few thousand cases to make sure everything’s working right.

Positive players unlock exclusive icon

To celebrate positive play, every player who hasn’t been chat/ranked restricted or banned over the last three months will unlock an exclusive summoner icon. You can expect that to land in your account by 5.19.

We’ll hang around the comments to answer any questions!

726 Comments

SwizzleSep 15, 2015118 votes

I love free summoner icons :3

Esp when all my friends wont get it

PeetreeBummSep 16, 201533 votes

Taunting people about not getting an icon... so toxic...

xPride StaIkerSep 17, 20155 votes

i know right he should be banned or forced to play Singed only so he knows how does it feel to be toxic

MasterVidallisSep 15, 2015109 votes

You're still not addressing the pre match screen which is where a lot of problems happen. Some players hold other players hostage by either demanding a position regardless of their pick order or going with a troll pick and threaten to afk/feed to force others to dodge if they don't get what they want. Since the LP cost of dodging is lower than a loss, often people do dodge and those toxic players get away with it free.

It's really hard to understand how you guys are putting all this effort into addressing toxic behavior when that loophole still exists and is just as much of a problem as in game toxic behavior. And nothing is being done about it.

Logan2043099Sep 15, 201510 votes

Nothing like seeing a guy autolock nami jungle with his duo friend going elise adc. I would report but I have no proof,it would also be nice to get like an email saying they are looking into it a lot of the times i feel like my reports go unanswered.

DolasaurSep 15, 201516 votes

Not following the meta isn't punishment worthy. If they lock in those positions and then troll the game, then you can report them afterwards based on them trolling. If they do their best, then they've done their best, even if you don't like what they're doing. I hate Zed, but it's not like I report anyone who plays Zed on my team.

CronoveySep 15, 2015138 votes

Unfortunately, some of us have to stick it out and take the hit to our LP to report these types of players. I rarely (1 in maybe 100 games) dodge a game because of these types of players because I consider it the right thing to do to play it out and report them later for their behavior, but also because it prevents this person from possibly ruining the experience of the next group of people that they would have gotten into a lobby with anyways. I'll take the hit in LP to save 9 other people from having to deal with those people most of the time, and I know other some people do the same thing.

I do agree though; while Riot has access to the pre- and post-game chat logs, it's very frustrating to not be able to do something about the champ select trolls going "mid or feed smurfing" who will autolock the only champion they know how to play and ruin the experience for everyone else on the team.

Unfortunately, there's not really a good system to put in place that couldn't be abused by players who just didn't like someone's pick. Any type of vote kick system could be easily abused, and having a report button in pre-game chat just ends up with players being angry before the game has even started.

I think the only good option would be a "Leave Queue" button (with the traditional dodge penalties) that would give you a "Why did you leave the queue?" pop-up in the client to ask you why you left, with a dropdown box offering options such as "Did not have time to play", but most importantly a "Player Toxicity" option that would bring up the names of the other 4 players in your lobby and allow you to select and report that player(s) for their pre-game chat behavior. While this can obviously still be abused like any other system, it would at least allow for this behavior to be reported when you dodged a game instead of having to suffer through a 10-20 LP loss just to report the toxic player in question.

MasterVidallisSep 15, 201550 votes

I think that suggestion is a pretty good solution actually. If I have to dodge a ranked game because of a troll it would be great to at least to do it without restarting league and being able to submit a report as to why I'm doing it and report a player for being toxic an champ select. It's not any more prone to abuse than the after game report tool.

Something like that is what I had in mind, I don't think allowing a team to get a free dodge or kick out a player would ever work, people would abuse that. But if you're already dodging and taking the LP loss, and you're doing it because someone is trolling and you don't want to go through a whole game with that behavior, you should be able to report them. And if they force enough people to dodge with that behavior, they should be banned. The whole community would be better off. That seems really obvious to me.

CronoveySep 15, 201518 votes

Maybe not banned right off the bat, but a ranked restriction for this type of behavior would seem incredibly appropriate, and then a ban if this behavior continued in their normal draft games while they were ranked restricted.

RiotRiot NaKyleSep 15, 201563 votes

Hey dude,

We're trying to nail a lot of this stuff down with a new champ select (Teambuilder Draft). Every design decision the team's making with it is intended to get the friction in champ select down and just end any incentive to act a fool in champ select. One way we're tackling it is that when you queue up, you select two positions you want to play, and you're guaranteed to get one of them. Lyte talks about it here and there on Ask.FM. If you've got questions about how to solve pre-game griefing, that's a great option.

http://ask.fm/RiotLyte

RetillinSep 15, 20157 votes

So does this mean you are getting rid of blind/draft normals? Because this "system" (team builder) doesn't touch those at all. I've tried Teambuilder, not a fan. I would rather just play a draft normal instead of a teambuilder game. Are people like me going to be ignored/forgotten in favour of the new Teambuilder?

RiotRiot NaKyleSep 15, 201515 votes

It's a totally new design from the Teambuilder that's live right now. Teambuilder Draft is only a codename. I hope you'll give the new one a shot!

I don't think we're set in stone on how/if queues will change overall, so I can't speak to that.

Paypal or AFKSep 15, 201510 votes

I'm pretty sure that you're going to get a lot of Top/mid lane request only lol.

Tohoko the NekoSep 15, 20156 votes

One problem that keeps me away from ranked queue is the actual pick order. Picture this scenario(which happens to me EVERYTIME I go for a ranked game, solo or duo): I call a role and a champion that I want to play and I'm last pick, which shouldn't be too hard to get what I want, right? WRONG! Someone who's basically first pick as well as a solo player not only doesn't say which role he's going to play, but also refuses to either listen, say anything or generally admit to not being entitled for his personnal preference pick because he has priority over me in the draft. Last game I played ranked, this very scenario happened to me again, there was a draven(forgot his summoner name), he's not only insta lock, but he hasn't said anything before having his pick and he's not answering any of the other 4 people asking him why he did what he did when we were all talking about how to build our team comp. Once in game, he went bot lane with sona support and me as mordekaiser and he was cs'ing over me and taking whatever he pleased because he had an adc champion but never actually calling the role.

I hope that this "Teambuilder Draft" thing will take care of that kind of issue. It's really upsetting to have someone greed you out of a role because he gets to pick before you while not having to say anything. This kind of greed is offputting in either draft queues, normals and ranked alike.

50403238_DELSep 15, 201515 votes

The idea with team builder is that you pick the role you want and get the role you want. One of the things we all have to embrace in ranked (beside the trolls and Insta-locks, those are inevitable) is that we get better through game knowledge. Whenever I go into ranked and I get my position, I consider that a privilege instead of a right. So in those times where I'm last pick and I get the position that I might not prefer (not cause of trolls), I would always take it as a learning opportunity instead of "oh god ff at 20 i cant carry". We all wish that every gamer were kind and reasonable with their picks, but that won't happen. Attitude is a BIG part in what separates low elo players from mid to high elo players, apart from skill, game knowledge etc.

Hope this helps :)

KarmaWhoreSep 16, 201518 votes

First off, I remember playing a ranked game with you once, and you were definitely one of the most positive players I ever played with. (I was top Jayce and you were Janna, I think)

That being said though, I was wondering why league doesn't have a "carrot" system. I don't know what Riot's response was on this question, but I've seen it asked before. What's your opinion on something like Dawngate's Karma system, where players could vote on who contributed positively to a game, and that affects the endgame rewards, which in this case, would be IP gain?

I liked the honor initiative when it first came out, but I felt like the rewards were only really aesthetic. Then they changed it, and people with honor ribbons were almost nonexistent. I felt like the honor system, overall, has failed in terms of fighting toxicity.

Perhaps this may have been because Dawngate was small, but I never saw toxicity in 95% of my games, mainly because the rewards at the end were partially determined by your fellow teammates and opponents.

MightyRevengeSep 16, 20155 votes

I agree. The honor system as it stands right now is a complete waste. I have NOT seen anyone with the ribbons in the past 100 games.... and I'm a pretty positive player overall (I have like 500+ honorable opponent points and 300+ teamwork points) ... and I don't think I've been rewarded in any way at all.

RiotRiot NaKyleSep 16, 201510 votes

Hey dude! Uh, Thanks! I hope we won >.>

We don't do an amazing job right now with rewarding positive play, though I think this icon is a good step. We do want to revisit Honor, but there's not timeline on it at the moment. The team's suuuuuper focused on Instant Feedback and champion select right now.

The Karma system sounds pretty cool, but I don't know a ton about it. I'll do some homework there, and thanks for the tip. RIP Dawngate.

Sky ShadowSep 17, 201511 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot NaKyle,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=99EVA67f,comment-id=000b000200050002,timestamp=2015-09-16T23:30:54.093+0000)

We don't do an amazing job right now with rewarding positive play

I think this icon is a good step.

I personally have no problem with rewards, no matter the size, but can you please get in touch with whoever is behind the creation of the icon and let them know that this Icon needs to be badass?

I want all the toxic players to envy the icon and strike immediate regret in them for choosing to be toxic.

A symbol of positivity if you can imagine.

KarmaWhoreSep 17, 20154 votes

Nope, we actually got wrecked hard :P IIRC we failed at running a poke comp. Oh well. You win some you lose some.

I think the icon is a cool idea, but definitely look up Dawngate. While it never got big as a game, there are certainly some things that League could learn from it (Karma, no loading screens!!!, lore depth, etc.). RIP Dawngate indeed.

Note: This is in no way saying that Dawngate didn't have its shortcomings. There were plenty of those too.

FucckSep 15, 20154 votes

I would have to agree, I entered a ranked match and I was currently silver 3 I had 0 LP at the time and there were two players fighting over jungle. as a result they both locked in jungle. During the match I was Leona support and neither of them would go top, so I had to go top while those 2 jungled away. As a result of their actions I was demoted to silver 4 and I couldn't dodge because of my 0 LP. This really pissed me off. Something should be done about these trolls.

CronoveySep 15, 201512 votes

Don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but if you're at 0 LP and you dodge a game it just puts you at -3 (negative three) LP and keeps you in your current division. Hopefully this will help you avoid this unfortunate situation again in the future, should it ever occur again.

Which I hope it doesn't, for anyone.

YiffySep 15, 201545 votes

Too bad Dunkey was banned too early to show his reform card.

RiotRiot TantramSep 15, 201560 votes

Reform cards existed before. They were just emailed, with a sharable link.

Faith BreakerSep 15, 201520 votes

Yet that malphite is still playing the game.

Armenian BotSep 15, 201521 votes

Well according to Riot Lyte, there was no Malphite in the game that got Dunkey banned :/ http://ask.fm/RiotLyte/answer/132485638338

StexeSep 15, 201515 votes

Yes, not in the game that Dunkey was banned, but he was IN his game at some time.

YiffySep 15, 201511 votes

Oooh, alright. Not really defending him by the way, just would have been nice to see.

RiotRiot TantramSep 15, 201538 votes

It's up to him to post his reform card. He has obviously opted not to.

NyaboronSep 16, 201537 votes

What would posting it do? We know he smack talks, it's part of his persona. The stupidity in the system lies in that he is banned for cursing someone out, but someone who's intentionally feeding to provoke people to verbally abuse them won't be banned. Riot has been trying to argue the point that cursing out your teammates and making people go on tilt may lose you some games, but you're going to lose 99% of games where someone on your team is actively trying to make you lose.

Dunky has been actively advertising your game and he gets no mercy when it comes to bans for something as trivial as verbal abuse? Trash talk is a big part of online gaming. If you don't like what they're saying, mute them. In CoD or battlefield, they use voice comms instead of chats, so when someone screams at the top of their lungs, it doesn't LOOK LIKE THIS, you can actually hear it. If someone curses you out, you get their actual voice and emotion in it, it isn't just text on a screen. However, you aren't forced to listen to it just like you aren't forced to read what people type to you on league. The voice comms are a lot more damaging than text but both platforms allow you to MUTE THE PERSON. If someone is cursing at you or saying bad words, remember that the default of the chat is to c**sor and that you have to actively and knowingly disable that default setting. You know what you're getting into.

tl;dr: only you can stop you from going on tilt. use the mute button and grow thicker skin. rito unban dunkey and start policing intentional feeding in ranked instead of bad words in norms.

HopkinsSep 16, 201520 votes

He did repost it. Along with a video showing why he did what he did. And he was 100% in the right. People have lost track of what makes a game a GAME. FUN!!!! he was defending his right to have fun WHILE having fun and making people laugh. Meanwhile the guy trying to ruin everyones day got off free. I saw him online this morning. Added his account to see if I could find him. Riot is corrupt.

CronoveySep 15, 201542 votes

We don't need to see his reform card; you can see some of the things he says in all chat to the enemy team in his own videos. There's literally video evidence of him abusing teammates and opponents alike. While I enjoy watching his videos for the humor, his conduct was very unnecessary. If you want to chastise or make fun of your opponents or teammates from a game, keep it to your videos later instead of abusing them in game.

Who knows, maybe one of them would see that they were feeding or trolling in one of his videos and realize how dumb it was. But after being verbally abused by him, what are the odds of that player going to his channel to watch the videos now? He took what could have been a force for good and instead wasted it.

22663034_DELSep 15, 201531 votes

He took what could have been a force for good and instead wasted it.

So he's Anakin Skywalker? I knew it..

General HaltSep 15, 201510 votes

Think about it this way though, you would know dunky was in game with you when you saw his name, and you should know to not take it seriously, this whole thing got blown way out of proportion.

CronoveySep 15, 201531 votes

This hasn't excused professional players in the past; why should it excuse someone who is popular on Youtube?

Also keep in mind that he's currently under 2 million subscribers and there are (as of the last infographic Riot posted) 32 million active players monthly, or roughly 1 in 16 players will even know who he is, and this 32 million number is old. This means that even taking his MMR or queue type into account, there's probably only one person per game he plays in (besides himself) that may even know who he is, and quite possibly none.

When 8 out of 10 players have no idea that he's being sarcastic or joking, that's the equivalent of you and a duo queue talking smack on everyone and abusing them, which is a common occurrence that results in chat restrictions and bans regularly.

Unacceptable behavior for everyone else should not be excused based on who you are.

SHINYASep 15, 201541 votes

makes me want to quit this game

cchainedSep 15, 2015303 votes

then quit! you make it seem like it's so hard not being a jerk in the game. Lyte said it himself there's nothing wrong with fooling around and calling your friends names, but the dynamic changes when you're talking to a stranger. If you don't want to be a positive player, then league does NOT need you!

Prime VictorSep 16, 201532 votes

[deleted]

1GN171ONSep 16, 201565 votes

If you tell me I suck, it isn't constructive. It's an insult and a waste of time. Sure, I shouldn't care what you say to me, nor should anyone else. But, that kind of attitude where you think "it's your problem, not mine," fuels an environment of toxicity. So, no. when you tell someone they suck, whether an ally or enemy, you deserve to be reported and/or banned. Because, it's your mentality that is helping to ruin this game's community. It's YOUR attitude that needs to change, not EVERYONE else's.

kGPmkXhW0BSep 16, 201524 votes

People in this world are just toxic, not only in league.

WEREW0LFSep 16, 20159 votes

Exodusx1414 - you ever thought maybe, you are being a victim to trolls intentionally feeding? At least part of the time ? I am not a fan of Leagues community and yes people get reported for some of the most minor stuff, and a big part of the problem is the very troll ruining the game can report you. am also not a huge fan of the way league polices it but it looks like they are trying here to adapt it. It looks like that kind of behavior (if intentional) is also caught by this system.

I am guilty of calling people out, and I have been reported. More than once I was on a whole team that was set on trolling.

I have learned to try and say "Hey can you try not to do ___ anymore? Do this instead" "can you play safer or hug the turret?" "You can try this" "If you are losing lane just ask for help" "dont go out alone" ETC. Their reply usually helps me at least know what I'm dealing with.

I get annoyed people think typing a lot is flaming. People are lazy and its a VERY casual environment. What irks me is 'If what I am saying is obvious, you are trolling/feeding/throwing or if what I am saying is NOT obvious then you should learn from it and not have a fit I'm typing it?

I try to suggest something and give feedback. Playing with a friend from work, that is truly not experienced has opened my eyes at how much skill/knowledge I have acquired over years of MOBA playing. There is no manual, MOBA for dummies. And what is out there can be helpful but is a lot to digest.

If you played with him, you would think it was intentional. I just hope this new system does not punish noobs. True noobs.

Original ThotSep 16, 20156 votes

Thank you for writing this. I joined a while back and this was my first MOBA or anything like it I've ever played... my friends I played with wouldn't play with me until I learned more (they'd spectate and/or smurf at times) because they felt it wouldn't be fair to my teammates xD. It really doesn't help when all people say is "you're bad" and no knowledge is given to help improve the player. Thanks again ^_^

º LB ºSep 15, 201530 votes

dunkey defenders' logic: ---> toxic players should be banned, but if they're big youtube names they shouldn't be effected by this rule. summoner 4

Hyrum GraffSep 15, 201525 votes

TIL: Lorem Ipsum considered toxic by the community.

HolyGHOST3Sep 15, 201519 votes

"IF I CAN'T GET SUMMONER ICON THEN NO ONE CAN!" *Reports everyone after every game

NiceTryViSep 15, 201515 votes

When is the Tribunal coming back online? I wanna be able to review cases and pass judgement on these players myself, and I think so do a lot of others. If nobody likes the toxic players, then the Tribunal should be a very effective tool for cleaning up the game again.

Iron IV ShacoSep 15, 201513 votes

Im going to dedicate the rest of my life to figure out what that reform card says

RiotSlumber JackSep 15, 201529 votes

Let me save you a lifetime's-worth of figuring it out.

http://www.lipsum.com/

Faith BreakerSep 15, 20156 votes

That seems real snarky and undercut, coming from a Red no doubt. Please clarify the message you're trying to convey Jack because it comes across as me as a Red taking the time to post on the forum to belittle or sass a single member.

CronoveySep 15, 201547 votes

Or perhaps it's a Red being useful and posting a direct link to an explanation instead of making the person type in the entirety of the text into a Google search to try and figure out what the hell it is, since it's not common knowledge.