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New champion select roundtable

Riot··6 votes·41,757 views

As you may have seen already, we’re introducing an all-new way to build a team and enter a game of League during the 2016 season. Join designers Jeffrey “Lyte” Lin, Eric “Socrates” Kenna, and Kam “Boourns” Fung for a roundtable discussion as they talk about the new design for champion select.


When did we start working on new champ select?

Jeff Lin: It all started about a year ago, while we were working on what we internally called Team Builder Classic. What we were trying to do was figure out the tradeoff between giving players more control over how they play versus the impact on queue times. In that first experiment, actually, we realized that we didn’t handle that tradeoff well at all. We gave players too much control, and queue times really suffered. We took a break, looked at all of the data and the lessons we could learn from it, and we said, “Hey, we learned a lot from Team Builder, it’s time for us to actually take that and work on a project to come up with a better way to do champ select.”

Many designers moonlight as minimalist sketch artists.

What were some of the problems we saw, not only with old champ select, but also Team Builder?

Eric Kenna: A ton of responsibility was front-loaded onto the first person at the top of the champ select screen. So with new champ select, we wanted to distribute the responsibility so that banning and planning became a team exercise. It’s much more of a conversation now than just one person making all the decisions.

Lin: We want champ select to be the beginning of your game experience, which is fundamentally different from how we were thinking about it before. We don’t want you to think, “Oh well, I’m last pick, I’m going to go to the bathroom and come back in five minutes, I don’t even care what my teammates are doing.” We want this new experience to emphasize that you’re all working together; each teammate has impactful choices to make that will affect the team comp you’re assembling.

Early tests of distributed bans.

Kenna: [The old system took] five random strangers and put them into a high pressure situation where they had to solve complex strategic problems, with presupposed notions about where they want to go--usually conflicting, by the way--and said, “Figure it out.” Oh, and sometimes, it’s ranked, so if you can’t sort this stuff out, you might be totally screwed. There’s just not a good way with that system for people to get along.

Lin: Also, we didn’t understand what “enforcing the meta” meant. So, in the old days, we thought that not enforcing the meta meant that players could always choose whatever position, whatever champion they wanted. But in the game design for League, there are only four sources of income. Three lanes and a jungle. That’s well-defined by the game itself, so the positions are not where diversity comes from. In the new champ select, it’s all about the champions you play in those positions.

Kenna: In this case, when players wanted to try something really off-meta, they were doing it in groups of five. It’s not as if players were going into to lobby with four dudes they don’t know and saying, “Hey, we’re doing this Heimerdinger ADC thing.”

Kam Fung: Or, maybe they do talk it out in the lobby, but it’s a conversation.

Lin: That’s important. One of the complaints about Team Builder was, “We can’t do a knock-up comp, or [insert-the-blank comp].” Now we just assign positions, so when you get in, you can suggest whatever comp you’re thinking of. We’ve worked that into the system.

Rethinking champ select.

Fung: The time you would have previously spent typing up your position and arguing with the other guy who wants mid, now we’ve just got rid of all that stuff.You might have less time technically, but you actually have more time to try and coordinate.

Lin: We’ve actually cut the time between decisions in a lot of the phases of new champ select, but because we’ve streamlined the whole process, you end up with more time to talk about what really matters.


So with everything you’ve mentioned, going back to even the fundamentals of champ select, what kind of background exploration went into the new design?

Kenna: Tons. But seriously, we did all kinds of surveys, we flew in pro players, we wanted to get even early iterations in the hands of as many people as possible to make sure we got it right.

Lin: This is an example of, even from the very beginning, a week into April, we had prototypes up, grey boxes up, and we got people in to give feedback. “We know what you’re seeing isn’t even close to final, but if this happened in champ select, what would you think?” To Eric’s point, we brought in as many players as possible, even new players who’d never played League before. Pros from Korea, Europe, NA. We wanted feedback from every angle.

Starting with grey boxes.

Fung: Player Behavior is a research-driven team; when we’re changing something so fundamental, we have a lot of questions we need to answer. In the beginning of new champ select, we did a bunch of stuff that just wasn’t that great, and we needed to work through that.

Lin: Champ select impacts every single player. When we make a change, the gut reaction is, “it’s not as good as before,” so every choice we make has to be intentional, has to provide players enough obvious value to get over the gut reaction. We want players to say, “Oh that’s super awesome, I totally get it, and it’s super obvious why.”


How much of the old Team Builder design influenced new champ select?

Kenna: So much of it is having the toolset to communicate with your team, instead of having to type in chat or try to resolve a conflict through text. We’ve procedurally solved for some of this so that you can have conversations about strategy and the game itself.

Lin: When we analyzed old champ select, it was obvious the biggest source of conflict was two people wanting to go mid, or two wanting to jungle, and it’s like, “Well, I only play jungle, you have to give it to me.” The solution of resolving that early will solve a lot of the tension.

Sketching new visuals and animations.

Kenna: You think about it, playing with your friends, you know what your friends want to play, where they’re best, and now with new champ select, the positions are decided and you see, “Oh, this guy plays Teemo.” You might think, “I’m not going to ban Teemo because I want to give this guy his strongest champion.” It’s a huge step to getting teams to come together.

Fung: Aspirationally, it would be amazing if we could make champ select feel like playing premade fives. When we watch pros talk through champ selects--how close can we get five random strangers to sounding like that?


We’ve talked about the problems we’ve seen with old champ select, some of the solutions we’re trying out -- what are some outcomes you’re hoping for?

Kenna: If you go to play League of Legends, you don’t end up with an experience where you’re forced into a role you didn’t want to play. We want to eliminate those uncomfortable, stressful moments, and give teams the tools to work together to be more successful.

Lin: This is a rare opportunity in games -- the game has been around for six years now.We just had the League birthday, and to get this chance to go back in time, to ask ourselves how we would have designed champ select if we had a second chance. If we get this out the door and the vast majority of players feel like, “this is how League should be,” or “this is what I’ve always wanted the champ select experience to be like,” then I feel like we’ll have been successful.

414 Comments

Grashnim116 votes

Demand a statement like: "Congratulations, you've chosen support, your team shall forever be thankful and in your debt."

Pope Of Nope3 votes

Unless you feed

LordGeovanni14 votes

Feed is an easy term to say some one has 5 deaths hes feeding .... why does he have 5 deaths did he run in to the enemy team all the time with out help did he execute himself to keep the enemy from getting the kill did engage for the team and the team not follow up.

Its easier to say hes feeding. omg intentional feed report

Zishi6 votes

there is a clear line between a feeder and a martyr, a feeder will b losing lane and keep going in alone to duel the person who is already ahead and loses repeditly, a martyr is a person who makes the mistake of trusting his team to go in with him in a low elo lmao

DrEhClOnYs6 votes

not many people understand that i dive in to keep the rest of the team from becoming feed.....

Blue Moon Wolf133 votes

"Congratulations, you've chosen jungle, everyone is going to need your help at all times and will be really ungrateful about it."

SelflessTeammate51 votes

"You're the jungler, the scapegoat for all losses that have ever happened since the beginning of recorded history. If even one lane loses, regardless of how many you help to win--and even if your team does ultimately win--it's completely your fault. Have fun, summoner!"

Call Me Corleone21 votes

Jungle main, for the masochists among us who don't have a nagging significant other

coeurloyal15 votes

...or for those of us that do and really are just gluttons for punishment.

SelflessTeammate61 votes

I prefer to say we're the Batmans of the Rift, really. Specifically, the Dark Knight kind. We're whatever the Rift needs us to be, the unsung heroes who are seen as the villains after the dust has settled, but by necessity...Because, as we say, wounded and broken as we watch our laners (the Harvey Dents) both fall into toxic villainy and get the credit for the victory anyway...but, the other team can not win. We don't get credit, we don't seek glory. We just make things right, and while we may not like it, we're fine with always being seen as the villain responsible for the preceding events, anyway, even if things did ultimately turn out fine for the team as a whole.

Very dramatic way of putting it, but I like to think of it that way.

CyberSecs6 votes

"Welcome to Toplane Paradise Island. Please enjoy your stay, we hope you never leave."

Stexe32 votes

They could expand that to every role.

"Congratulations, you've chosen AD Carry, your team shall fail and you'll need to farm to hyper carry them to victory."

"Congratulations, you've chosen mid, your team is going to need you to win your lane, roam for ganks, and constantly apply pressure everywhere."

"Congratulations, you've chosen top, your team will require perfect teleports to secure wins and constant split pushing and surviving 1v5 duels."

etc.

Teall10 votes

"Congratulations, you've chosen support. Your team will forever ignore the fact that without you, your adc could have possibly fed and gotten rekt, not to mention that pentakill was because of your amazing ult that no one thanks you for"

Vidsutniy5 votes

"Congratulations, you've chosen support. Your team shall forever blame you for not keeping them alive when they do stupid things."

Swizzle41 votes

These sketches really helped explain the thought process behind it

PeponiPoro4 votes

Yeah that was a cool thing to add in ^^

CliffHanger0719 votes

It's still be nice if we were able to (manually) list the champs we use frequently. Here are some of the benefits:

  1. People see a list of champs that show your style and get a feel for you.

  2. These champs can be highlighted and moved to the top of champ select when it's your turn to pick, solving the problem of "champ groups" people suggest all the time.

  3. When it's time to ban you can see the champs in your team's list highlighted to avoid denying one from an early pick.

  4. Most people only play around <=5 champs at their top level in their chosen role, so the list doesn't have to be too big or cover many roles.

  5. Easy to implement storing a list of 5 champs, by the time of pre-season 7.

  6. No need for a year of research to find out if people want this.

Ericles4 votes

They do have "pick intent" which is a much easier to understand (and unfortunately exploit) than the system you suggest.

The25thBahm13 votes

CAN I MAKE A SUGGESTION?

Have four icons (or circle thingies? like the ult circles in-game?) of different colours to the right of the champion list. Each of the other 4 players should be given a colour. If you hover over a champion, let's say Teemo, all other players who have Teemo will have their circles light up. Let's say jungler and ADC have him, and their circles are yellow and green. So yellow and green would light up.

This would help in the same kind of thing you guys are trying to do - a conversation instead of over chat. This way, we can propose trades and stuff and not panic about asking each other "Hey, do you have Graves?" and waiting for their reply. It would be much smoother.

Meanie4011 votes

Most people will have to pick two positions.

I'll pick "Support/It doesn't matter what I'm putting here because the system will choose to have me Support."

Dr FreakinSmarts10 votes

Queues will take 2 weeks minimum to find a team as they search for the 100 or so support mains item 3070

Vidsutniy14 votes

I got you item 2049

TheTrumpCard36 votes

There are wayyy more support mains than people think. I actually think there's a solid balance between roles atm. Jungle might be the least populated.

Mid-Silver player here

TwiztidDemonz2 votes

yes junglers are so hard to find! im main supp and adc, i can jungle if needed, but when in a game where you cant change after looking its really hard for me

Ericles23 votes

I can't see your problemLeeSin

darkmystel3 votes

yesterday lost a blind pick game, where 3 players called support n 2 insta locked -__- , but well supports are hard to find at times, n that's how i started playing support xD

iggyvolz1 votes

The theory is that queue times will increase, so some people will hop ship to Support and get a queue time of zero. People will eventually gravitate more towards Support, and it will balance somewhat.

macromite15 votes

people thought that would happen in teambuilder as well. they were wrong.

the deemo10 votes

That moment when I DJ as a full time job item 3070 Sona

bro0rtega8 votes

I think this is very straight forward and has a lot to offer. I believe this will let players be able to really focus on their strengths, and improve on their teamwork weaknesses. I'm mostly excited for this to come to ranked.

This change overall is letting players share more information fastersummoner 6 in champ select, and having everybody get what they want. What more could I ask for?

URF permanent...?

iota7 votes

So, Team Builder is basically Blind Pick now? And all us "fill" players are basically left to be indecisive in a corner.

Going in Bard39 votes

so you mean as a "fill" player you wont be using the "fill" option? that doesn't make much sense.

Hung And Thicc4 votes

is there a fill option in the new one?

Meanie4020 votes

Yes. You have to choose one of the 5 positions or "fill" as both primary and secondary roles.

3JDrGwJwwa7 votes

So I noticed that the timers for picking a champion during champ select has gotten shorter and was hoping you could extend it to at least 20 seconds for people that actually use counter picks or want to pick something that works with the team.

Toa of Death6 votes

So when can we expect it to hit live?

Rival Jd6 votes

Whatever changes you make, can we request a tutorial for the queue that we have to do when we first sign on after the changes? So we know what to do and not have ppl fumble in ranked queues and mess up.

TheRoyalCrimson5 votes

In concept this idea is amazing. in practice im not so sure with how horrible the community can be at times. let the games begin...

Herküles5 votes

Will this queue be implemented on Twisted Treeline as well? The thing I most care about it being able to do ranked 3's either solo or with one other person.

SinisterSquid5 votes

How about a system that detects complainers and replaces them with a doom bot or something.

Lukodashi5 votes

That would be amazing for afk's but doom bots are too overpowered for that lol.

TŒŒMØ5 votes

90% or so of my current games are on Team Builder. I often decide to log in when I feel like playing a certain champ in a certain lane. The system they are describing here could replace the current draft, but I hope it doesn't replace Team Builder. There needs to be a mode where you can play exactly what you're in the mood to play, and current TB does that best.

Sykoe1172 votes

I heard you were gonna put this into ranked is that true? Or do you think people should be ready to play all positions in ranked?

Hyrum Graff9 votes

It will be in ranked.

UNSCmagick1 votes

Logged in to complement the name. The enemy's gate is down.

Hyrum Graff5 votes

{quoted}

Logged in to complement the name. The enemy's gate is down.

Thank you! I'm very happy with it.

Funny story: In soloQ, I once met "Colonel Graff," who was like, "So you're the reason why I have this name!" [and not mine].

SoryInAdvance3 votes

Ender's Game was a really good book. The movie was decent but not quite the same. As usual I suppose. Lol

Lakega14 votes

I never understood the "If you play ranked you should be able to play all roles as good as a challenger, or pro" mentality. There's a reason why even pro teams stick people into 1 role and 1 role only.

Hyrum Graff3 votes

{quoted}

I never understood the "If you play ranked you should be able to play all roles as good as a challenger, or pro" mentality. There's a reason why even pro teams stick people into 1 role and 1 role only.

Something something Hai Mid/Jg/Supp

I don't actually disagree with you, though. Being competent in 2, maybe 3 roles is plenty.

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