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Ask Riot: Haz keys, no haz bugs please?

Riot··4 votes·28,912 views

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Up for this week: Key Fragments, skin bugs, and what happened to the all-around champions?

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You guys make some fantastic skins! I love seeing all the artwork you are putting out. However, I do not understand why your skins sometimes create "game breaking bugs" (such as the Dark Star Thresh). From a design standpoint, aren't skins the visual (and audio) layers that wrap around the frames? Why would skins cause programmatic bugs?

Thank you! We are happy to hear you’re enjoying skins.

To answer your question, it is understandable you might think of skins as something that wouldn’t cause bugs, but I’d like to share with you how and why skins have a serious technical layer behind their fun facade. In some simple cases, where we make artwork or sound replacements in a skin, it is unlikely for there to be any serious bugs as a result of adding the new skin. But the artists and designers often go far beyond such simple changes to create more compelling skins.

A closer analogy might be to think of your favorite champion as an old-school video game console and when you change skins, you are plugging in different program ‘cartridges’ that feature their own artwork, sound, visual effects and game logic. A skin *executes* on the game engine, and there is a lot going on behind the scenes with many interactions between different systems. The visual effects system, in particular, is typically simulating and drawing many thousands of particles each frame.

The concept for a new skin may require custom design scripting and visual effects. Parts of the champion may be entirely substituted with effects for a skin (e.g., Arclight Velkoz’s tentacles, DJ Sona's hair and Dark Star Thresh's lantern). Completely new features are even added to the game engine just so that the creative vision for a particular skin can be realized. Our skins team is consistently trying to push their limits.

Given all that, the way a skin is authored can cause bugs or create a poor experience. Sometimes the logic for a specific skin will have a problem in a particular case, or the visual effects can become too complex and noticeably slow down the game.

Most errors are discovered and fixed before we release to our public beta environment (PBE) and there, our testers and all of you playing on PBE put a lot of effort into uncovering any game breaking issues before they make it out to a live patch. Occasionally, some bugs slip through the cracks and we evaluate and patch them as necessary.

-RamzaX



Riot seems to like to balance and rework champs so that they fill a specific and unique niche, but what about champs that can do anything well? (Like Kayle, or pre-AD-nerf-Kennen, and Udyr's jungle shenanigans.) Is League moving away from all-rounder type champs or do they still have a place?

We're definitely moving away from all-rounder type champions. This isn't to say that champions need to do only one or two things,or be limited to only one role or position, but they do need strong strengths and weaknesses. One of the goals we strive for when designing or updating champions is to ensure they have 4 things:

  • Unique Inputs (the Champion feels unique to play)
  • Unique Outputs (the Champion feels unique to play with/or against for the other 9 people)
  • Defined Strengths
  • Defined Weaknesses

"All-rounder" type champions don't pass the last two categories (and usually also don't do well on the first two either). We ultimately feel the game is better, has deeper gameplay, and is ultimately more enjoyable when champions have strong strengths and weaknesses people can play around.

-FeralPony- Senior Game Designer



How does the key fragment drop rate work? Will you ever add a way to achieve a key or key fragments?

This is how the current tuning of the drop rate works:

  • It is possible to earn enough key fragments to open every chest you find in 4 week period.
  • You have to win to earn a key fragment. Performance does not factor into the drop rate outside of this.
    • You can earn key fragments in any mode that yields champion mastery points.
  • The drops are somewhat based on luck, but it’s weighted such that after a certain number of wins if you didn’t get a fragment we’ll just force a drop to avoid being screwed by RNG.
  • Getting enough keys to open 4 chests in a 4 week period is hard and requires a lot of play, but anybody can do it if they play enough.
  • We don’t have any plans to add additional ways to get key fragments atm, but it’s something we may do in the future.

-Riot Socrates- Lead Game Designer


Please feel free to hit us up in the comments. Each of the Rioters who answered will do their best to engage in a conversation with you.

290 Comments

Solari Fortune39 votes

Could you add in some kind of way to know when your key drop rate will reset?

Gardaen2 votes

There is no reset I think. It's just random. Take this example. In certain MMO's, you can earn drops from dungeons. This is similar, except the drop rate fluxuates per game depending on your wins.

Solari Fortune11 votes

No there is a rate that gets reset. It works like this You get a key fragment, which in turn will make the next harder to get and so on. After a month after you have gotten your first key fragment the rate will reset allowing you to earn them easier

Riposte Malone4 votes

at the start of each month

Solari Fortune17 votes

That is actually incorrect, the drop rate of keys resets a month after you have earned you first key fragment after a reset. So unless you got your first fragment on the 1st of a month, then it will be another day. The reset is different for everyone

BakedLotion2 votes

It's always the 6th or 7th for me because the update came out during the 6th and I immediately got a key. It's 6-7th of each month for most people

epiclegend06691 votes

Some people still don't play on the day of the patch so it isn't the same for all.

BakedLotion6 votes

{quoted}

Some people still don't play on the day of the patch so it isn't the same for all.

That's why I said most. Cmon dude read

undefined2412 votes

This truly needs to be done. Too many times have i felt ripped off by not getting a fragment for four weeks and being like wtf.

Neekotine31 votes

Can you guys post a video of behind the scenes, like how did you guys created a certain skin, example project yi. That would be cool to see! [slayer-jinx-catface]

TSM Tollblade1 votes

Very sorry to spoil your idea, but i THINK (Please correct if wrong) it's just Binary. e.e It would be cool if it weren't and I'm completely wrong but it is a game on a computer...

LordSirChipmunk3 votes

I believe, at this day and age, they are probably programming with a code like Java or C++. While it's still tedious, it's a lot faster than a bunch of 1s and 0s.

Skelenth23 votes

I really want to know where Brand got his trousers. They are durable, they don't burn and they look dope as hell

Iffem11 votes

they're the pants of the guy he's possessing they are kept unburnt by the will of the ESRB

Skelenth4 votes

Sorry, but I need an official confirmation of that

Simply Mad4 votes

They're great! They're Brand name pants. [slayer-jinx-wink]

Pandahuh18 votes

I love all the new skins n all but what happen to the old fun and simple 520 rp skins? Like lumberjack sion.

Pìgeon16 votes

Is it possible to add in the grading system to "match history?" I'm really sick of not being able to connect to the stats screen or misclicking the "home" button and never seeing what grade i got ever again

LuluInWonderland14 votes

Key drop rates have been borked for me (and my friends) since inception. Either that or we're grossly misunderstanding how they drop.

After a reset, the first ~16 wins (3-4 days or so) will usually drop 7-9 key fragments. After that, we may get 1-2 key fragments total over the next couple days. Then we get nothing at all until the next reset. Based on the information presented, it sounds like we should be able to get 12 key fragments per month, but we cap out at ~8-11. I understand they get less frequent, but we get everything within the first week and nothing afterwards...we could have 100 more wins and not see a single drop. That sounds like something is broken to me.

Seiju D WolFoX10 votes

But 3 key fragments per key X 4 chests per 4 week period = 12 fragments though...where'd you get 16?

Obungo 13 votes

Why does an official riot post have 9 typos?

athame28 votes

Riot, unlike many big companies, has the good will to communicate with its' community, and the one thing you manage to complain about is typos? REALLY?

(Edit): You DO realize that Rioters can be normal people, just like you or I, right?

Obungo 6 votes

Even with all of Riot's "good will communication," they still manage to comply with the community's wishes LESS then other big companies, lmao.

Reito43 votes

less THAN*

Master Saitama5 votes

Riot has one of the most vocal admins in the history of any game. I've played just about everything, and the only thing that comes even moderately close is Early 2000's runescape mods, World of Warcraft very early on, and a few others maybe, but to pretend like they don't do daily post on the forums, like they don't respond to almost everything reasonable, that's just bullshit.

Obungo 1 votes

Voicing out and being active as an admin means jack shit when you don't actually do shit the community wants.

Remember SoloQ?

Yeah, me too.

Ocúlus4 votes

The reason Riot doesn't always do what the community wants is because a good portion of the time the community doesn't understand the effects their desires will put on the game. Riot has large analyst teams that collect data. This helps them make more informed decisions on what's best for the game. I don't think we do this when we just mindlessly demand things. Do you collect massive amounts of data to see if solo queue is better for the game or not?

Vhan87658 votes

"It is possible to earn enough key fragments to open every chest you find in 4 week period."

Yeah Rito, tell that to the past 2 months I've gone without a single key shard. :')

odd 1nt3g3r532 votes

Wow. You must lose a LOT.

Vhan87656 votes

Because op.gg isn't a thing. xD

MemeFarmer4202 votes

[deleted]

Vhan87657 votes

I'm pretty sure the Bronze with a 45% win rate and negative KDA has different work to be doing elsewhere. x'D

Ocúlus4 votes

50% win rate isn't particularly bad... Anything lower than 50% is though :D

kurbstomp883 votes

im in the same boat as this dude and average around a 50-65% win rate but it seems if you get an s it reduces your chance of a key drop even if u dont have boxes available

Reito4 votes

Getting an S does not reduce the key drop rate. I got a box AND a key once -- but it was my ADC, not me, who scored the S.

Solari Fortune4 votes

Grades and Keys have no effect on each other whatsoever

Ovariso7 votes

Riot, for the mastery system remove cs from the support role because im a support main and its really hard to get an S-. took me 5 months to get lvl 6 thresh :P.Think you can make it happen?item 3070 Thresh PS:Supports dont kill creeps

mslybell17 votes

The lvl 6 and 7 haven't even been out for 5 months buddy

Reito2 votes

The CS isn't factored in support. I got an S- with Nautilus recently, and my my stats were: 1/2/21, 67 CS, 10.2K gold.

Note that I have the lowest gold in my team (highest at 17.1K) and lowest CS (highest at 209) - both stats belonging to my fed ADC.

The game knows when you are a support and does not necessarily award you an S for kills or CS. Just get your ADC fed and be there for them, like the good support you are.

The Fuhrer3 votes

It's not really fixed.. I went 1/3/24 yesterday with like 50 cs in a 30 minute game, I got my team so fed cause i was landing hooks left and right but still, only an A+

Ibaraki Helio5 votes

I have 4 keys and no chest but when I open chest, I get champion shard.... Opened a Teemo Champion shard last night.

Bombrunner2136 votes

I got dark candy fiddle sticks : ) legacy skin*[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]*

rtbf2103100954 votes

I got spirit guard udyr, you have been one upped [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Polgin3 votes

I got Riot Graves from a box 2 days ago. pretty sure that's a one upp [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Gestoxia DFNDR3 votes

I have gotten...ooh, let's see: Infernal Susan, Corporate Mundo, Queen of Diamonds Syndra, Reverse Annie, and another like 10 975+ RP skins from Champion Mastery. I believe that that is a one up.[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

rtbf21031009510 votes

Well I got muse sona. So uhhh... umm Titties?

4th Chiming Lamb6 votes

I got Armor of the Fifth Age Taric, you have been one upped [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

MemeFarmer4203 votes

got myself mecha zero sion [slayer-pantheon-thumbs] then proceeded to rent it because i didnt know it would take the shard gg [zombie-brand-facepalm]

ZBroYo3 votes

Hi

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