You can't just treat the whole year like it's the preseason - you need to take more time to balance.

P00PD1CK··148 votes·20,353 views

Back in the day you had one big patch with huge macro changes at the end of each year - the preseason patch - with lots of smaller balance changes following the months after that.

This system worked decently well. The big preseason patch could tackle the bigger problems of the game that had accumulated over the last year which small and simple balance changes simply couldn't deal with. The interroom period between seasons on the other hand was used to clean up the chaotic mess and collateral damage the preseason patch would inevitably leave behind, with small balance changes like buffs and nerfs here and there, while collecting data and accessing the situation for the next preseason patch.

As time progressed, Riot changed the system to two big patches per year instead of only one, the preseason patch and the midseason patch. But now it has escalated to a system where these big patches happen 12 times a year, every 4 weeks. And I gotta say, it's gotten out of hand.

At this point the whole year is a preseason, an inconsistent, chaotic and imbalanced mess. Because sweeping game changes happen every 4 weeks now, the interroom periods between these big changes that are supposed to clean up the side effects and collateral damage these kinds of patches leave behind with balance changes is way too short. As a result, each patch is creating more issues than it is supposed to fix and it's becoming more and more evident to the community at large.

I know you want to keep the game fresh and exciting, but you also need to acknowlegde that you need time for things to settle down, to focus more on balance, to let the players get used to it all and to collect data and make proper plans on what to do for the next big patch. Otherwise it's just change for the sake of change, with no clear purpose or end goal in mind.

48 Comments

sweetrules55 votes

The biggest mistake that's been compounded this season is the increase to damage across the board. They are so busy changing everything that they've missed that damage has gotten so high that games end noticeably faster, usually almost guaranteed one way or the other by 15 minutes. Which sidelines most champs that excel in longer games. And they're so off focus that their first response to a champion not insta-bursting squishies in less than a second is to buff them.

SwiftKitten8811 votes

{quoted}

The biggest mistake that's been compounded this season is the increase to damage across the board. They are so busy changing everything that they've missed that damage has gotten so high that games end noticeably faster, usually almost guaranteed one way or the other by 15 minutes. Which sidelines most champs that excel in longer games. And they're so off focus that their first response to a champion not insta-bursting squishies in less than a second is to buff them.

its been going up since season 5. with the introduction of "keystones" they also added huge bursts of damage for no reason, but at least at the same time you could easily dip into the resolve tree.

now its like... just plain absurd instead of once keystone giving a huige effect. we have 6... keystones... oh sorry riot... "runes" because that'stotally fooling people [slayer-jinx-unamused] ..

i meanthere was one game.. where both me AND the enemy vayne had like 8 or nine kills i was running through her jungle and we meet in melee range as we were both had no vision on the other until we both walk around the corner

i missed my point blank spear.. i pounced in on her and takedown and swiped her, and to my absolute amazement she died... from full hp this has only ever happened that one time. and i was fed but.. i was still some dumbstruck..

items don't matter.. that shouldn't be possible

my takedown's damage is amplified by an absurd amount to make it nearly worthless if they arn't hunted it also deals damage based on % missing hp.. and since my spear missed, i didnt get hunted proc... or take off about 40% of her hp with the spear. so the fact she died to pounce swipe and takedown alone from full hp just because of runes, just, blew my mind...

i mean i have never been able to repeat this nor would i ever try.

but there have been QUITE a lot of kills i have gotten i should have no riot to get.. and likewise the other way..

i have died to things that have no reason whatsoever to kill me.

also... this was when nidalee had a 46% win-rate i don't remember the exact patch.

but damage creep is absurd anyone who says its not an issue is either ignorant on what they game used to be like.. or completely in denial. i guess being a moron is an option too.

3TWarrior2 votes

it was preseason 6 or the start of season 6 that caused keystones because it coincidentally aired with the marksman class update

it wasn't really a part of season five but instead what they were previewing for season 6 (if they even included the mastery changes)

Saianna2 votes

They definitely didnt miss it. It was planned. To match the tastes of korean players, cause the game belongs to Tencent, Korean game publisher.

Percentages1 votes

{quoted}

They definitely didnt miss it. It was planned. To match the tastes of korean players, cause the game belongs to Tencent, Korean game publisher.

Pretty sure they are Chinese?

Saianna1 votes

Tencent is huge asian game company. They work in china just as in korea, but korea is by far bigger when it comes to games and playerbase.

Also in korea there's a.... custom.. to play games in internet cafees rather than buying PCs

Edit but yea, 10cent could be chineese company. I don't really care all that much :P

You Are Cute XD1 votes

{quoted}

but korea is by far bigger when it comes to games and playerbase.

China is by far the largest player base. Like, ten times as many players as Korea. China has well over 100 million people playing this game, and are over 50% of the entire player base.

We don't know actual numbers, but here is someone trying to figure it out as close as they can.

Saianna1 votes

Hmmmm I know tat Korean playerbase has something that makes them the most desirable for gaming companies. If not playerbase then maybe their willing to spend money?

Either way, LOL is being reworked to fit asian players mostly and that still holds true :)

Gorantharon1 votes

Games aren't really ending much faster on average, there's been an analysis on reddit about that, but they're definitely decided much faster, then one team has to wait it out. There's no state of being just a little bit behind in most games.

On the other hand, because from midgame onwards even a behind team will destroy towers in moments, given the chance, one big misplay can throw the game. The problem is that it's not on the behind team to play well, but on the winning team to throw hard, because of that team's are often overly cautious and drag games out. You can't all in once and only lose a bit of a lead, you all in and lose the game if you lose.

So we have extremely short games when the snowball is in full effect and relatively long games on the other hand, because you can't afford to give up anything. The middle ground of an even battle isn't really happening so much.

Sliythe1 votes

ADC, APC, jungler, bruiser, tank.. its all the same by now. roles are losing their unique status.

Ben Sharpio37 votes

i agree with POOPD1CK

Regina George12 votes

I stand with POOPD1CK

Karunamon5 votes

Je suis P00PD1CK

BlackScrew693 votes

we are all POOPD1CK

Teridax6816 votes

I think we're starting to fully see the flaws in the "big patch, little patch" model Riot proposed for this season -- it takes a lot longer than just one patch cycle to properly identify the issues brought by a major, gameplay-changing patch, let alone fix them, and so League has become increasingly unstable over time, when it already wasn't all that stable to begin with. Because short patch cycles have led to shorter-term vision on balancing, I feel it's also led to a ton of champions receiving more damage and/or snowballing potential just to keep up with the rest, exacerbating the game's existing major problems. As such, it feels like League as a whole has become even more centered around snowballing and majorly excessive damage, with balance across champions being so out of wack that we've ended with stuff like Ezreal having a pick rate nearing 50% on Korea, on top of a 50%+ win rate. Whereas seasonal complaints in the past mostly revolved around certain champions or classes (e.g. Juggernauts at the end of S5), it feels like the biggest complaints at this point in Season 8 are about the game itself, as well as its core gameplay. This isn't the first time players have complained about snowballing in League (that was also a major complaint in S3), but it is the first time such a complaint has been brought up in a manner that directly blames Riot for deliberately enacting it. League has run long enough to be considered an old game, and as such many players have expected it to have the stability and solid core of one. To see League remain so chaotic and unbalanced at this point in time is therefore fairly worrying.

To me, what bothers me more than just the speed at which League has been updating itself is the seeming lack of process behind it: if Riot had developed the tools to rapidly anticipate, identify and efficiently address whichever balance problems were brought up by their patches, then their pace of updates could be fine, if every little patch cleanly solved the previous big patch's issues, and brought the game back to a stable state. As it stands, not only is this not the case, but the process of balancing itself feels tremendously opaque: Riot's been talking a lot about statistics recently, but we're not seeing how these statistics inform their balance decisions, nor does there seem to be a clear procedure for balancing any part of the game at all. As such, the balancing process feels largely arbitrary, and the fact that the game's balance is depending on the opinion of a few humans, when much of the playerbase's confidence in said humans has dropped, has been cause for concern. This has not been improved by the details Riot accidentally let on, such as the fact that they only have two jungler playtesters, or that their evaluation for top lane balance in NA is apparently largely informed by the meta in Vietnam. Adding to this, we've seen Riot repeat a ton of mistakes they've made in the past, namely by forgetting to give champions counterplay, or balancing them in ways that didn't work before, in addition to implementing changes whose impact was so easy to anticipate, one wonders how they made it through playtesting at all (e.g. Galio's AP scaling changes, Kai'Sa's post-release patch, all of Zoe, etc.). All of this leads to the impression that the design and balancing process suffers from poor quality control, as well as a general lack of direction.

I may be wrong on all of this, but then I am not the only one with this opinion, and the only way Riot can truly counteract that is if they show exactly how they structure their design and balancing pipeline, how/whether they take in player feedback, and what their vision actually is for League. Right now, the playerbase feels largely ignored, even outright looked down upon, and it feels like the devs have been designing with incentives other than the players in mind. Player-developer communications are at an all-time low, which I think has contributed to the lack of understanding the playerbase has of League's current development. It also generally feels like Riot's made a concerted effort to obfuscate or even completely hide crucial information about their own game, so that we players are left without the common ground to properly discuss what is going on in League. It's not a positive environment overall, and until Riot makes a proper effort to share with us exactly what they want out of League, it's only going to get worse.

RocketRelm3 votes

I don't think it has much to do with the patch cycles, and way more to do with the damage creep. The damage creep has gotten so far it's fundamentally unbalanced basic mechanisms of the game, which require a ton of maintenance to update to work with increased damage.

Teridax682 votes

It's both, not an either-or. The patches we have also brought about damage creep, which I mentioned in the above post, and that is but one of the reasons why League has become less stable over time. Many champions now are capable of dealing what used to be considered burst damage, including tanks, but on top of that the entire game's flow has collapsed into a fairly simplistic and repetitive strategy, one in which teams farm for a little while, snowball, then group up and try to deathball the other team into an early win. I agree that the game is bent out of shape, in large part due to the increase in damage, but a ton of other factors, such as the changes to jungle objectives, turrets, minions, etc., have also negatively affected the game and stripped it of its depth.

Thilmer6 votes

Yeah, every patch is like: "We have changed drastically 30 champions, and nerfed 10 itesm, buffed 10 other ítems, there are 5 new ítems, we erase this ítem forever because we don't like it, and also new keystones".

We are in June, is not pre-season, pre-season doesn't last all the year, goddamit. This massive changes in every patch are solving nothing and say very Little in favour of the balance team.

Zeyd5 votes

I gotta aree. I would much rather have a better game that takes longer to patch. In addition, I feel the same way about que times. I would much rather have better quality games and wait maybe 5-10 minutes in diamond ranked que instead of feeling like riot prioritizes me getting a match in 3 minutes or less above literally everything. Good quality things take time. I don't know why riot isn't taking the proper time to deliver on their vision.

Battalion1 votes

Mobile game audiences have small attention spans and usually play while traveling or waiting, which means games should be matched ASAP and finished ASAP.

(LoL is a mobile game)

Neegis5 votes

???

Battalion1 votes

I"m not sure how you and others didn't get the joke, but to answer you: !!!

Yets42401 votes

Might need a /s there.

Battalion1 votes

I'm not worried about it. The best part of sarcasm is when you make fun of others without them realizing that you're making fun of them. In an ironic twist, they've added another layer to my joke themselves.

DunkedHerGood5 votes

Yea, the game is becoming WAY too streamlined. Frankly its getting to be too much like Dota 2 (which we don’t want since we’d just play THAT game instead), in that EVERYONE is OP, and so everyone is paradoxically “balanced”. That’s how I differentiate between the 2 games: League is more balanced dependent while Dota 2 is more chaotic in that everyone is and can be OP. Unfortunately, Riot has had changes that have got them closer and closer to this point, giving way too much burst to EVERY champion (yup, ALL of-’em).

THEY EVEN RETURNED OLD RENGAR FOR GODSSAKE.

Fluffeh2 votes

{quoted} EVERYONE is OP, and so everyone is paradoxically “balanced”. That’s how I differentiate between the 2 games: League is more balanced dependent while Dota 2 is more chaotic in that everyone is and can be OP.

Thats kind of hilarious since dota is actually the better balanced game. At their worlds equivalent they had 90% of the roster be picked or banned. League has like 40-50 champs that are even considered in competitive, Only a third.

kaironen4 votes

Bot lane feels like it is in preseason due to the hp regen nerfs and crit itemization gutting. Around 2 patches ago, we had the scuttle changes (in which I personally hate). Right now it feels like there is too much hype and emphasis on the "big" patches which leads the smaller ones to feel almost meaningless. Imo, I hate forced changes into the game, which was what midseason was. Preseason is fine for the most part since there is generally more planning that goes into it but the "big" patches makes some changes that were probably not ready to go live, become live.

five oh tree 4 votes

You're remembering incorrectly, because the boards ALWAYS complains. every season, every patch. You're just lying to yourself if you deny that. Now, I'm not saying this current balance schedule is good or effective, but don't act like it used to be much better.

Daddy Ants4 votes

Stop listening to Boards about game and champion balance. Stop listening to Reddit about game and champion balance.

You have internal data for a reason, use it.

Karunamon12 votes

Internal data cannot show you how fun the game is to play.

Gravirose1 votes

{quoted}

Internal data cannot show you how fun the game is to play.

I don't think Riot balances the game on how much fun you can have on a specific patch...? Like these changes are made for players to adapt to new changes and create whatever they feel like is good in the specific patch. You choose if you wanna have fun with the game or not.

SirPurrr3 votes

game lost a bit of its soul with these serious reworks like GP being evil now and so on

same with the client... felt warm and at home... now impersonal and generic (also terrible usability wise... such as having to click again to make the chat bigger or scroll)

they need to get back that touch that makes things feel fun and special instead of just going on stupid trends

a lot is still good but a lot was better in terms of the impression it left even if not execution

I also feel that I'm wasting my time trying to understand the game, theorycraft etc. because they make it useless so fast

Gregorovic082 votes

I think they did say that they are going to focus on balancing what they have for awhile after the next patch which contains the new items.

Leto GT2 votes

It's going to create a lot of issues. Imaging irelia with those new items, she's going to be impossible to kill. I hope they'll nerf those bruisers that have already huge survivability before they release those items. Especially since adc have been nerfed.

Wild Geese2 votes

On the PBE they are nerfing Ezreal's armor from 25->22. After the hotfix already balanced him out--

This is just another case throughout the years where they've doubled a nerf because they didn't look at the impact of the last one.. they need a month, not 2 weeks.

TyroneWatermelon2 votes

all of these patches are shit anyway

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

I think it's really interesting for these threads to come out after Meddler admitted that the long midseason was a poor choice and they're gonna focus on balancing quietly for awhile.

TwitchInMyPants1 votes

{quoted}

I think it's really interesting for these threads to come out after Meddler admitted that the long midseason was a poor choice and they're gonna focus on balancing quietly for awhile.

Probably because big changes would be welcome for big problems and instead of actually addressing imbalances new items, mechanics, and runes are being introduced instead of actually changing what's there?

New powerful content is going to create imbalances and they've introduced a lot at once then suddenly decided "Ok we're going to put out small patches for the rest of the year." Which based on how they ignored Ardent Cancer last year tells me they're going to just tweak damage values by 5 on most of these patches until next years pre-season. Like the game isn't unplayable but there's a dramatic amount of problems, this isn't the League of Legends I used to play and there's some core problems they need to fix that require more direct changes. Like it really isn't the size of the change as much as it is what they're choosing to address. They've been taking balanced champs and roles and just shifting the power. It's mostly change for the sake of change with no real direction.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Fixing crit damage on adcs was the most complained about problem on the Boards! And people only stopped complaining about it when Riot announced they were working on it!

Other that that point, I actually don't understand what you're upset about. You say, in two places, two ideas that seem to be in total conflict to me.

tells me they're going to just tweak damage values by 5 on most of these patches until next years pre-season

isn't the size of the change as much as it is what they're choosing to address

I agree with the second one, which is why I think a time of smaller balance changes would be a good idea. They can tackle the problems that matter the most without causing wild disruption. Meddler already said that tackling snowball is high on the list, and again, that's one of the most complained about problems on the Boards.

So if you, me, and Meddler are all on the same page that small, directed changes are needed to solve the issues in the game at present, what's the problem? That seems like a good thing to me.

Inari Fox Orrion1 votes

I think he's saying that their large patches which consist of minor adjustments to big issues don't quite work. Small, directed changes are just fine -- but... I still have to ask, how did League even end up in this state with people complaining for all of six months about it and it's only being resolved now?

revliledpembroke1 votes

I actually saw an article from some gaming magazine that quoted Meddler (I think) as saying they were going to go back to their old system of patches. Dunno if it's true.

Eye Of Terror1 votes

Answering to the title: looks like yes, they can!

That's why I fucking uninstalled this shit: an unbalanced tilt pool that gets your account banned.

I am glad that LoL viewer's count started dropping, that should trigger the alarm that some idiots working at Riot Games should either wake up or find new jobs.

It's still not too late to get LoL back as greatest game. How? See what first seasons had that got so many people into the game and reintegrate those things in the current season.

Skorch1 votes

Now I am not sure where this is as its one of those: "Heard from someone hearing from someone" Situations. However apparently Riot stated: Season 8 will be like season 1 as we are going to try to majorly shuffle the game.

And effectiveness OF the shuffle or not, it is pretty correct.

So in other words they flat stated that this season would be like the entire year was preseason.

UnknownTerritory1 votes

Game needs to be balanced

JAYCCCCCCCCCCCCE1 votes

Betting 10$ RP to OP that a red wont respond to this, they only care about memes & Games posts that have nothing to do with the game.

Zullar1 votes

Game balance is so bad right now. Balance team needs a new direction.

Yraco1 votes

I agree a lot with this post. Giant changes should happen once or twice a year and I get why they might balance runes occasionally like adding conqueror when tanks made fighters entirely irrelevant but in the current state we have about 3 new items, a rune, 2 champion updates and a couple item updates every 4 weeks. The game feels really inconsistent to play in any role because my champion or items could get changed any time, I still don't have a clue when the best time might be to get infinity edge and getting behind in jungle feels like the end of the game with constant invades and no way to secure scuttle.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

If people are going to cry for more changes "NOW" then of course they're going to have to have more big changes.

More from Gameplay

More by P00PD1CK