Help Positioning as ADC

Howldoom·7/29/2015, 4:51:32 AM·1 votes·1,088 views

Lost three times in a row in Ranked as ADC (specifically, Sivir). Laning tends to be okay, but I think my problem is positioning. Either the allies can't peel for me, or the enemy team has gap-closers that get past the front line and bring me down. Any suggestions or help anyone can give me in that regard, because NO WAY I should be losing three games in a row because of bad luck and bad teammates (not that those aren't reasons to lose, but if I'm losing consistently then it's MY fault). Look at the games, look at my team vs theirs, and make judgments off of that.

It's either that, or I just tilt way too hard all of the time, or I just need something where positioning doesn't matter too much. Then again I have glaring problems with every role that the enemy always seems to play to their advantage (low damage, low mobility, can only do so much or be in so many places, etc).

6 Comments

Only Play Darius7/29/2015, 5:03:10 AM1 votes

Stay as far in the back as possible. Do not make any effort to fight an assassin, ideally it is best to leave your fighters to deal with the assassins but if your support hits them with some good CC then you can attack them. Just in general always stay with or behind your team and act like the biggest pussy in the game.

Qarekeo7/29/2015, 5:47:03 AM1 votes

To be honest, even if 3 losses in a row looks like a cause for concern (especially in ranked) if you play this game regularly chances are you'll eventually hit a losing streak. If you come back sometime afterwards it means you're still deserving of the rank you have or better.

With that out of the way, I'm also trying to learn marksmen to help in my supporting ability, to fill in the role if/when no one wants it (which has so far only happened this season I think) and to generally learn mechanical skills like CS and positioning better as the key role on my team.

One thing I've noticed since I started learning ADC is that I tend to lose games as Lucian and win games as Tristana. I think this is for two reasons:

  1. Lucian has a shorter autoattack range, meaning he can't harass from a distance and is generally riskier. Lucian is also more of a lane bully than a DPS carry, while Tristana can come back later and even take objectives without many kills.

  2. I understand how to build Tristana a lot better than I do Lucian. With Lucian I've tried raw damage, mana, CDR, you name it; I still can't consistently perform well with him. With Tristana I know she doesn't need more than 1 attack speed item, so I'm free to build raw damage and tankiness or CDR.

Judging by your match history, you seem to play a variety of marksmen. Your K/D/A is consistently good with Vayne, which isn't a surprise since so many people hate her. I also see that you rush Infinity Edge or Bloodthirster and Berserker's Greaves almost every game. You probably should reconsider how you build items and when.

For example, one game you built a Last Whisper against a burst-heavy team with only one really tanky character. In that situation a good counterbuild would have included Mercurial Scimitar instead, which gives magic resist and an active ability that can help you break CC and escape their fighters. Remember, items are extremely important to marksmen, so how you build will change how you play and with who you will effective against.

Also, a little defense can go a long way. If you find yourself outmatched by the enemy marksman or other AD scaling champion, consider Ninja Tabi since it directly weakens autoattacks and let's you trade with them. Again, Mercurial Scimitar helps against CC-heavy champions and magic damage dealers.

Second, as far as positioning goes, it depends on the matchup. Obviously, when against hook champions you'll want to hide behind minions and wait for them to blow their spells (which is easy to do with Sivir). Against healers you usually want to be hyper-aggressive and bring them down to where they can't get up and dominate from there. Against tank supports, target the marksman instead (if possible) or wait for an opportunity to hit, such as a gank. Tanks will be easier to fight when you get counter items like Last Whisper or Black Cleaver (if you swing that way).

Also, in teamfights, you should generally try to hit the squishiest enemy in range without getting hit yourself. Don't try to go too far out of your way to get to lower health enemies, what matters is doing constant damage for as long as possible without dying. That doesn't mean you shouldn't attack squishies, just that doing so in the middle of the enemies is a LOT more dangerous than hitting a fighter in the middle of your team, then moving on to the fleeing squishies.

Against assassins, you don't want to be near assassins. This is why tanks matter for your team, since they can help lock them down for you to kill. If you see one jump on you, either immediately use your mobility spells, hide in a bush, or just search for a safe spot with allies. You almost never want to be alone unless it's to get a dragon while all three enemy inhibitors are down.

I hope all this helps. This is what I've gathered so far playing as a marksman, and I'm looking to improve myself.

TouchpadExpert7/29/2015, 12:43:07 PM1 votes

I agree with what Qarekeo said except for one thing: Don't attack the tanky supports. There are some exceptions to this rule, namely Leona. One of the best ways to counter Leona is to be hyper aggressive early on and poke her down. If she has low hp all the time she won't be able to make a proper engage on you severely limiting her presence in lane. Alistar is another you want to poke constantly. Make him have to waste mana on his weak heal. When he runs out of mana he won't be able to execute his fulll combo so now you may engage the ADC. And Tahm Kench typically starts tongue last. This means he doesn't have access to grey health yet. Exploit this window of opportunity and get him low. Get him low enough and with enough burst he should be killable now.

I may not be an ADC main but from playing these supports I know some strategies that were used against me and made my job difficult. Don't underestimate poking down tanks early game. It limits their lane presence immensely.

Roaranor7/29/2015, 2:57:04 PM1 votes

I don't know why people are giving advice about laning phase when he's** specifically asking about team fights**. He even said laning phase wasn't the main concern here. The short hack is pretty much back off until they commit to a different fight. For example, if Zed makes a beeline straight for you, don't try to stay in fighting range. Back off completely until you see him use 1-2 of his skills on someone else. That way you know most of his retaliation is cut and you can probably take him now. Staying back also means making sure you're not standing near open jungle points that are unwarded, as you risk getting ganked and picked off in the start/middle of the fight. People say that the rule of thumb is to "Always stand behind the tanks" but that doesn't guarantee your safety either. Your motto (or what works for me at least) is to do as much damage as your team will allow you. If they're peeling off threats and locking down targets for you, it's a field day. If they aren't, then you play passive-aggressive and deal with people as they come. If it's a clear threat that you can't kill, but will kill you ez mode, back off. Don't try to fight them expecting your team to do something. The fact that they made it to an isolated 1v1 with you means that your team has already abandoned you for a different target and you should back off and look for a new entry point into the fight (waiting for the threat to pick someone else to kill counts as an entry point here). This is your priority list:

  • Your main goal is staying alive.
  • Your second goal is doing damage.
  • Your third goal is doing damage to priority targets.

If your team doesn't afford you much of an opportunity to churn out damage, then you can't really do anything about that aside for asking them for peel. Do what you can and, worst case scenario, prepare to defend until your dead allies respawn.

Other notes:

  • Also Touchpad is wrong about never attacking tanky supports. If you're in between last-hitting, you harass whoever is in range. ADC takes priority, but if Alistar or Naut are what's actually in your safe range, of course you whittle them down. The ideal is to safely harass the enemy adc (or Raka), but you never overextend just for that sake.
  • In reference to Qarekeo, Lucian has arguably one of the best in lane ranged harass, his Q. Yes it's tied to a minion or enemy, but it's also fast (given its high range potential) and using minions to poke with it gives you a midpoint segment with which to better align when quick casting. In terms of their damage output, they are two completely different types of DPS despite being in the same role. Lucian is an AD-Caster, meaning he specializes in high burst abilities with sub par consistent dps (AD casters generally lack steroids). Tristana is a traditional ADC meaning low burst, high consistent DPS. Lucian wants to snowball and take advantage of his strong early-mid game (<35min) and close out games sooner. Tristana wants to survive to late game when she turns into a high range, resetting escape/chase, hyper carry. Keep in mind that, as you've noticed, traditional marksmen have a more "black and white" play style, making them easier to pick up and do well with. If you try to play an AD Caster like a traditional ADC, you're not going to reach their potential DPS.
  • Honestly, I don't see much wrong with the build. Also, there's nothing wrong with IE->zerks rush. That's the norm for almost every ADC. Keep in mind that LW is only decent if you already have your hard damage (usually IE) and at least most of your attack speed (which I'd recommend finishing first unless you need LW immediately, otherwise at least get zeal). Never get ninja-tabi, it cuts your earliest source of attack speed (aside from runes/mast). The problem with ADC itemization is that it's stale with few meaningful choices unless you're playing an AD caster. You get IE. You get zerks. You get PD or shiv. If they have 2-3 sources of armor, get LW. If not, get BT. If you're consistently dying to AP get a banshee's. If there's a zed or fatal debuff, get QSS->merc schm. If you need a general defensive item, get GA. You never really want more than one defensive item except for rare cases because it cuts into your damage too much.
Howldoom7/30/2015, 2:34:30 AM1 votes

So far I've narrowed it down to one of a few things:

  • My positioning is horrible to the point where I die once and the whole game goes downhill
  • The champs on my team have no ability to peel/protect me
  • The champs on their team ignore positioning prowess with gap-closing mechanics that leave me incapable of good positioning
  • Whenever I have losing streaks I move on to try new champions for ranked, opening myself up to more losing streaks and denying myself more experience on the old champs even though I don't want to play as them. TBH there really isn't anyone I want to main anymore now.
  • Heavy tilting over any lost games, repressing anger during bad games until I start thinking of lashing out IRL sometime over it; hasn't happened yet and likely won't because self-discipline.

Lost again as Sivir, now at the bottom of Bronze 1 again. I choose her for the aoe and the mobility, to provide my team with something in the event of a poor game. Should I just find someone brain-dead easy to climb with instead, or just go for something in which having to micro for positioning doesn't matter?

Basically I want to get to Gold V at the least, and my problem is that there's no structure I want to follow in which I can learn what to do right in a game. I don't want to learn by drilling in bots, that's boring; and watching streams takes away time that I could be playing to try having/finding fun. Also aware that I sound like a pretentious douche, but I'm really not in the mood right now to be upbraided about it or told any more "cold, hard truths" about how I can't breeze through to Gold or that I'm never going to reach it in time now, even if I tried my hardest in Ranked (which, it would appear, isn't enough). No position I've tried is appealing or has enough safety blankets to fall back on in the event that we're behind, and