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I need some advice. Bad case of poor kill/death ratios, in every position.

King Galileo·10/11/2015, 2:31:51 PM·1 votes·977 views

Hi, I've been playing League for over a year off and on. In low level pvp games I used to do VERY well as a top-laner with my main champion; Wukong, but as I leveled up more and more recently and began fighting more experienced players I became entirely unable to get kills and avoid death in top lane regardless of the builds I'd use. I honestly prefer top lane, but now I'm struggling to find what position suits me the best. I never do an especially impressive job at (Malzahar) mid lane and I don't know why, I can never get any kills when I try and play (Draven) bottom lane even though ADC is supposed to be best at racking kills, and I rarely play (Soraka) support for lack of interest in it. So, lately I've been trying get better at playing Wukong in the jungle, even though I miss playing him top lane, but have become demoralized from how often I fail up there. It feels easier playing Wukong in the jungle, but I always level up way slower than everyone else in the match, and I mean EVERYONE, on both teams. I really want some advice on how to get better. Is Wukong more suited to jungle than top lane? Am I doing something wrong? I've looked up proper builds and it just doesn't seem to help. What order is best to hunt jungle monsters in? Is there even a correct order or is it all just opinionated? I keep hearing different things. Some people tell me there are certain monsters you should kill before and after red buff if you choose to leash red, and that there are certain monsters to kill before or after blue buff if you choose blue. I used to get 10-15 kills or more often, around 10 deaths, and a random amount of assists. Now, I pretty much get 5 kills or less, 10 deaths or more, and 5 or so assists in every game no matter what position i play in or champion I pick. I would really like some sound advice that will actually help me improve.

4 Comments

boosted frog10/11/2015, 3:59:48 PM2 votes

I came into this topic thinking I won't be much use but since you main wukong (and I've strictly played only Wukong from level 1 to 30 back in S4, top jungle) I'll help you out since I'm preeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetty familiar with Wukong. I'll talk about Wukong top for you, because Wukong Jungle requires some explanation that I can't really explain really well but I'll link you to good Wukong jungle videos

I'll try to organize my post as best as I can. Think of this as a small little guide. Feel free to TL;DR my upcoming wall of text:

First off, you're level 24. Its not the end of the world if you don't feel like you're improving, because in truth, you are improving (as long as you're not cocky and deluded). Currently at this time of the post, you're playing Wukong which I applaud you because it's nice to see people actually playing Wukong every once and a while and I THINK your role is support? Idk. If you're playing Wukong support then I applaud you again for the bravery

Now I think you're trying to gear yourself towards Wukong jungle instead of top, which imo is fine but here's some things I like to point out about the two roles:

WUKONG TOP VS JUNGLE

TOP:

Can be a lane bully as long as you have mana (start Flask if you haven't already)
If played right, Wukong can beat out lots of match ups (decoy, minion wave, indirect/fast poke)
He's built as a top laner, but can jungle

JUNGLE:

"Meh" clear time
No reliable CC (his ult at level 6 is a CC but its not truly reliable unless you plan to only gank every time your ult is off CD)
If you jungle correctly (and with effort) you can clear camps with decent sustain (though you won't usually be able to gank without first backing)
Has a gap closer (if you gank someone from behind, do NOT use your E until they bust a utility summoner spell or skill)

Before we start with Wukong top, we'll have to address factors that you must keep in mind when playing him top (and when playing other top laners)

Minion Wave
Life steal
Juke
Poke
Passive play
Aggressive play

TOP LANE WUKONG BASICS

You must have a task you want to fulfill before you go into lane; decide whether you want to be tank, damage, utility or hybrid
Almost always have if you plan to go AD wukong (you want to carry right?)
Start: (1) - , 3 (if you are less confident or have TP with you) | (2) - , 2, 1 (if you are experienced) | (3) - / , (risky start)
Start and max your E then Q then W

TOP LANE WUKONG ADVANCED TACTICS

Start learning to Decoy juke. For example you're against a , which hate to fight, he will try to use his AoE stun every time you do a (E+Q) harass. At first, make it obvious that you decoy every time you do a (E+Q) harass but after like 2 or 3 harasses, you fake your decoy and he'll start running around with his staff spinning in his hand trying to stun you once you get out of invisibility, etc. Over time he'll start to second guess when he should use his stun and you can use this to your advantage. Its a mind game.
Start learning the minion wave. Do NOT E into the enemy (ESPECIALLY AT LOW LEVEL) if your E is going to fling your Wukong into the middle of the enemy's minion wave. Maybe the enemy won't have time to retaliate, but the minions will and you will take a good amount of damage from them until you get your W. If there is a cannon minion and you're still low level, PLEASE do NOT try to harass your enemy with E. The cannon minion will smack you until you escape back to your own wave (and you'll take "tons of damage" - Phreak 1999)
So how can you harass the enemy if there is a big minion wave? Assuming you are both melee, the moment you last hit a minion you quickly Q the nearby enemy (without stepping). So think of it as you Q in place (assuming the enemy is close to you, because your Q modifies your next auto's attack range and damage). If your wukong starts stepping forward trying to Q the guy, then that means he's too far away from you and you should totally back off.
Now while you now have the knowledge of minion wave (and your enemy, especially at lower elo, doesn't) you can bait him into your own minion wave. I was against another Wukong top last game (we both had Underworld skin so it was pretty funny to see a bunch of green particles everywhere) and I bait him into harassing me first. So when he E into me, not only does he attracts minion aggro because he basically flung his Wukong into my minion wave, but now since he's in MY minion wave I can E to him and take LESS minion aggro than I would if I were to E him while he's in his own minion wave. So even though our E dealt same damage, we both auto after our E, etc, he took more damage after the trade because of my minion wave. While he's backing off from my minion wave I'll use the E's attack speed steroid to my advantage by smacking my staff at him.
Life steal, life steal, life steal. Very crucial to many top laners that plan to build AD, and AD wukong is one of them. If your low on HP and have no pots, life steal is your best friend. Here's some tactics with life steal:
Assume you are pretty fed (you got two kills off the enemy wukong) and now you have a Hydra while he doesn't. He's pushed into his own turret and as a Wukong, he has no reliable CC (in this context, "reliable" means he cant use his CC often). Since I know that he'll quickly W the MOMENT I harass him since I'm stronger than him, I wait until my minion wave comes up to his turret. Then I wait for him to make a mistake: use his E on the minion wave. (You can always use your E on the minion wave, but watch out for your enemy laner). The moment he uses his E on the minion wave to quickly clear it, and then a Q to last hit another minion, I know that with Hydra (lovely life steal) I can E into him and quickly Q(Auto) + Tiamat and he'll have to W. Isn't that a dangerous thing to do you ask? First off, sure you get a turret hit, but you also HEAL some of your hp back up from Hydra. Second, the enemy wukong can't retaliate because he just used his skills on the minion wave a second ago. So all he can do while you harass him under turret is W away and hope the turret deals more damage to you than you dealt to him (which wouldn't be the case unless you somehow took two turret shots).
Indirect poking: to use your E at the edge of the minion wave and direct one of your E clone to hit the nearby enemy champion
The two last factors I want to address for top lane Wukong is passive and aggressive play, which should be self explanatory. Both passive and aggressive plays are not really "advanced tactics" but you still need to keep them in mind. Question yourself:

1. At what point of my advanced tactics section did I mention something that has to do with passive play?

Baiting/waiting for the enemy to harass you under your own minion wave during early laning phase
Healing back up your HP with Hydra from a minion wave
Q poke (last hitting then quickly Q poke)

2. At what point of my advanced tactics section did I mention something that has to do with aggressive play?

(E+Q+AA+W) harass
(Q+E+AA+W) harass - only when you are in range to use your Q without having to step forward too far. This is a stronger harass than the first one mentioned
Attacking enemy when they're in your minion wave
Indirect poking

There are also ways to build Wukong based on the following:

Team Comp (both your team and your enemy comp)
Enemy status (who's fed? who's weak?)
The role your wukong wish to fulfill
Your wukong's summoner spells
Your team's summoner spells

I'll just address the basics of building Wukong:

If you wish to take out summoner 4 for summoner 12 , you'll need to add in a utility item in your final build so you can substitute your (FLASH + R) combo during teamfight engagements.

Here are flash "substitutes" that are suitable for Wukong's engagement needs:

item 3800 item 3142

Righteous Glory if you build tank wukong, Youmou Ghostblade if you build AD wukong (which Allorim, one of the best Wukong players, prefer). Activate one of the other item and decoy + ult in

Here are other items suitable (but not limited to) wukong:

item 3071 item 3074 item 3748 item 3742 item 3143 item 3078 (very costly) item 3035

Here are some people you should check out for Wukong stuff:

Allorim (https://www.youtube.com/user/AllorimLoL) - Top lane Nightblue3 (https://www.youtube.com/user/Nightblue3) - Jungle

You MUST watch this for Wukong Jungle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVQOMimRm6A (By Nightblue3)

Final thoughts: Sorry that this post isn't about Wukong jungle, but I feel that you should definitely learn Wukong top. Wukong Jungle is awesome but if you want to carry or learn Wukong basics/advance tactics, Wukong top is a better choice

I'm really sure that Nightblue3's Wukong Jungle video will help you out because its easier to explain the way you should jungle as Wukong with visual demonstration

Add me on League if you have any questions etc. I'm not challenger but I'll try my best to help you out with your Wukong questions.

Good luck have fun with Wukong :D MonkeyKing

Randomonium10/11/2015, 2:42:37 PM1 votes

Sounds like you're starting to face some more experienced competition as you level up. Its pretty normal to question your play as you face stiffer competition, that's the only way you will improve.

Watching high level players and LCS has really helped me improve because it shows me what high level players do differently than me. I also watch my own replays and right down what my mistakes were and what I want to improve on in games.

Your CS numbers are quite low. The best way to get better at that is to go into custom games by yourself and practice last hitting. Your goal should be 35 CS by 5 minutes (it will seem impossible at first but keep practicing and you will be able to do it.)

If you want to play normals I'll review our replays and see if I have any more specific advice I can give you.

RayCastle10/11/2015, 3:56:06 PM1 votes

Try to play safe ,if ur not able to get kills it's fine ask ur jg to gank at the right time and cs is important as u know.Don't start a match by thinking u would lose or u will perform bad.enjoy the game or what's the point.

xoMishka10/12/2015, 5:20:48 PM1 votes

Since you're level 24 you are going to be at a disadvantage. At this point you're probably playing against people who are already level 30, which means they already have T3 runes while you do not. That is probably one of the main reasons why you're behind in levels while jungling and losing in top. Runes give you a huge damage/sustain advantage against someone who does not have them. Jungling in particular is really difficult if you don't have the proper runes. Synthesize's post is great advice and he seems to have ya covered. My only advice is to not worry. Hit 30 first and get yourself some T3 runes, THEN see how you're doing because by that point you'll be on a more even playing field.