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Jungle: Good at the PVE, bad at the PVP

Vekkna·5/26/2015, 8:45:49 PM·2 votes·1,206 views

After practicing jungle in many custom and bot games, I finally felt comfortable enough in jungle to try it in a few normal (and two ranked, which were by accident). Clearing camps and managing hp have been relatively easy. I can now start most anywhere without a leash and get a dragon solo before level 6.

The problem I have is the entire pvp part, which is kind of huge. I can tell when a lane is a good gank, and I do my best to frequently check each lane. Here are the problems I have that I need help with:

  1. When a lane is getting pushed but it's not gankable, I'm not sure what to do. Let's say bot is pushed behind tower by an adc and sup at or near full hp. Or top is under tower at 30% hp against a Mundo, Swain, Nasus, Darius, etc. I clearly can't gank, but babysitting the lane puts me way behind in xp and gold. This happens in virtually every game, and I find myself always underleveled.

  2. Everyone always wants ganks, but running back and forth from top to bot leaves me underleveled.

  3. I can solo dragon early, but it's not fast. I like to get it early because the other team is less likely to be expecting it and more likely to be spread across the map. But if I solo it, it only takes one roamer to gank me and steal, so I ping for help. In 100% of games, NOBODY COMES TO HELP! Unless enemy bot is totally mia, bot never helps. Enemy bot can be at 10% hp under tower, and nobody helps.

  4. Some combination of the above happens early game, and I'm permanently 2-3 levels behind. Then everybody rages that everything kills me.

  5. I can't figure out how to get built enough to be tanky or dangerous when jungle items are so freakin' expensive. I can deal with the knife, but the ongoing gold sink of pots and wards makes me feel like I can never afford anything that would make me a threat.

If it helps at all, I've been trying to jungle on Elise, Evelynn, Fiora, Diana, and one godawful attempt at Kayle. I do great when it's just me and the monsters, but the second another player is on the screen, I'm just dead meat. In one game as Evelynn, I even caught the enemy jungler (Kha'zix) at my red buff at like 50% hp, and he killed me before I killed him and proceeded to finish off the Red.

It honestly feels futile, so any advice is welcome.

6 Comments

COWmanLord5/26/2015, 10:14:19 PM1 votes

  1. If the enemy adc and support are at full you can still probably gank them if your team is healthy enough to help out. Same thing for the top lane scenario. If they have enough health where they won't just die immediately feel free to gank if you can. If you really find you can't gank then keep on farming the jungle camps, maybe try to counter jungle if you have an idea of where the enemy jungler is. Also remember a successful gank doesn't always mean you got a kill. Making the enemy have to go back to base, blowing summoner spells or ults, or even just dealing some damage to them can be very helpful to your lane.

  2. You can gank em all. Don't bother trying. Generally you want to go for ganks where you know it will result in success. You can try to save a losing lane, but remember there is a point where you have to just abandon that lane to its fate. Camping a specific lane where you can get kills easily is a very good strategy as it helps funnel more power into your team and can reduce the enemy team's morale.

  3. Trying to go for drag before 6 is really unnecessary. It is very risky, and the power really isn't that much until later on. The best time to go for drag is right after a successful bot lane gank. For example if the enemy bot lane is sitting under tower at 10% you can probably just dive the tower and get the kills then drag.

  4. Jungler is typically a bit behind on levels and gold. Though if you farm enough and get a few ganks that work well it won't be an issue.

  5. Jungle items are only a little over 2k gold. They are much cheaper than normal items and they give you extra gold when farming as well. Good items to build are ones that have many smaller components so you can pick them up in small increments as the jungler typically be getting less gold and will back more often.

I also would recommend trying out some different champions. Diana and Fiora both can jungle, but they are stronger in other roles. Elise is a jungler, but she is also one of the harder ones and a bit weak at the moment. Evelyn is decent, but she is also very different from most junglers and isn't incredibly strong at the moment. I would reccomend sejuani and amumu for tank junglers. Some good more damage focused ones would be kha zix or pantheon.

In the end it will take time before you figure out everything. Jungling is arguably the most complicated role and half the time people do blame you for their own mistakes, but stick at it and it can be very rewarding.

BluePolarizer5/26/2015, 11:34:43 PM1 votes

Top rule of jungling:

if you are playing a carry jungler, you gank to get yourself ahead.

if you are playing an early game jungler, you gank to snowball winning lanes so they can snowball other lanes as well.

Nowhere does it say "help lost lanes", especially top lane. If a lane is LOSING, you might be able to turn it, but if they're already 0-3 against a Riven or something, abandon them and under no circumstances do you gank for them until they have lost top turret, because at best it is lost farm and at worst it is a free double kill for the enemy.

If mid is losing, what you need to do is coordinate a 3v1 gank top or a 4v2 gank bot. And if mid wants to stay in lane and farm/feed, well, then get your top and bot lanes ahead or get yourself ahead.

warpenguin5555/27/2015, 12:00:47 AM1 votes

Most of your junglers seem to require alot more skill then mine. im doing pretty good with my Nocturne XinZhao and Amumu. i would sugest trying to learn 1 of those 3 1st. ease you into the pvp better(noc doenst gank before 6 most times)

insaiyanbacca5/27/2015, 12:20:26 AM1 votes

Note: i dont have much time atm ill probably come back and edit with more stuff but atm im mainly addressing your paragraph at the bottom. well catching an enemy jungle kha out by your self probably means your isolated in which kah just destroys you cause your isolated now that that is out of the way. i dont have much experience with the junglers you play but something that might help with learning to pvp with diana and fiora is taking them into lane where you have to deal with another person so you can learn how to fight other people with them, just a thought here. now elise and eve arent in the best of places right now they can work but there are junglers that can give you more reward for learning them, personally some of my favorite junglers are singed udyr and kha, but i would also recommend trying out these guys: Nunu good for learning counter jungling and is very pve orientated, Chogath has good sustain gets tanky fast after 6 fairly straight forward in pvp excellent dragon control and in my opinion very fun, Amumu not much sustain but pretty good clears very good ganks and strong teamfight so once teamfights start happening you dont need to worry about how your doing pvp as long as you can get in and get a good ult off and let your team follow up, Warwick he can be played well focusing on either pvp or pve he has great sustain good ganks after 6 amazing dueling and can get dragon fairly early.

hope this helps some i'll come back in the next couple days or so with more stuff

Lich My Ashe5/27/2015, 3:17:32 PM1 votes

I may be repeating people but hopefully I can leave some input that some may have missed.

  1. Ungankable is a very vague term in this context, if a lane is having trouble and is pushed typically this is the best time to gank. At this point though you really have to weigh and look at your options, basically ask yourself if the worst possible scenario were to occur given what I know (what summoner spells are active, where is the enemy jungler, how many creep are there) will we still come out ahead? If the answer is yes you better start ganking, if no then it's really up to you at that point. I could go into this question a lot but this is just knowing what you, the enemy and your team is capable of if you were to gank.

  2. This is the blight on every junglers existence, sorry but you can't please everyone (although highly mobile champions like rek'sai would disagree) and sometimes you just have to leave some lanes be. Again weigh your options and gank the lanes which have the highest chance of getting you or your teammates rolling.

  3. Early solo dragons are a huge gamble and often times just not worth it. You have to keep in mind that the percent damage buffs it gives won't be a big game changer early on and all it really gives is peace of mind knowing you at least got the first dragon out of the way. When looking to dragon it's important to note enemy ward placement and where the enemy jungler is. Is the enemy jungler ganking top and the enemy bot lane just forced to back after a lost duel? Perfect time to take dragon with your own bot lane. But if you're adamant on taking an early solo drag at the very least do not do it unless you know where the enemy jungle is and YOU NEED to have a pink at the mouth of the dragons den to ensure no wards are watching.

  4. If you and your team is behind and under leveled all you can really do is farm and look for extended/easy kills. Trying to force kills is only going to help you lose the game faster.

  5. As jungle you need to build your jungle item, it just isn't worth it not to. Not having enough gold to do anything may just be an issue with your clearing methods or routes.

Sorry if the information is a little lack luster but it's difficult to give you more without a little more information, if you could post a replay or two of maybe your most recent worst and best game (from your perspective at least) we could probably break down your gameplay for you and give you some more beneficial tips to work on? You're welcome to add me in game though if you ever want me to spectate a game or have a question?

-Lich My Ashe

TouchpadExpert5/27/2015, 4:27:59 PM1 votes

When in doubt pick Udyr Udyr can power farm all game and is great at counter jungling when you have nothing better to do. If you're bored or don't know what to do there is no harm in warding into the enemy jungle. Steal some camps while at it too. Just leave the little ones so that it doesn't respawn back for him so he stays even lower in level than you. Udyr, if left alone to farm, can actually end up ahead in level than even his laners. Has decent sustain, nice damage output, great duelist and a nice amount of CC. Oh, and he can be built to deal out AP or AD damage output. His only down side is how he lacks an "ultimate" ability and cannot max out one of his stances completely. Oh, and his ganks aren't horribly bad but they can get to be predictable after a while. So try to switch it up. Udyr jungler takes smite always but can also run ghost, flash or teleport. Ghost is better suited for counter jungling and power farming. Flash makes your ganks stronger. Teleport gives you much more presence in the game and can also allow for your gank paths to become more unpredictable as you can teleport into an enemy's warded jungle.

Other easy junglers who are good in the current meta: Vi will fix your ganking problem. Sejuani arguably the best jungler right now. JarvanIV no matter the meta, always a safe pick. Fiddlesticks just protect your blue buff. A wise choice to pick up if your mid lane decides to go AD (like Zed). RekSai Has immense presence in the game once she gets tunnels up.