Champion Win Rate; What Should You Aim For?

EkkoFroffles·Apr 24, 2015·3 votes·2,675 views

I know high ELO players tend to have 60 or 70+ win rates with multiple champions, but for low ELO players such as myself, what should you be shooting for? For champions, I'm assuming 60% should be your goal. Should that be sufficient for someone at my level?

Now, for a related question. If I'm at a mere 53% with Garen after 118 matches, should I consider "retiring" him in favor of some "fresh blood" despite the fact that my consistency and comfort level with him is way beyond what it is with anyone else, as evidenced by my stats with him compared to everyone else (http://na.op.gg/summoner/champions/userName=Tekatet)? Is it worth sacrificing reliability for a higher ceiling with a more boom-or-bust type like Wukong?

Should I focus on infusing new blood into my top lane pursuits like I did when I started jungling with Amumu (8-1)? I went 11/6/4 with Darius (in a loss) my first and only ranked match with him, and have since learned him well enough to feel justified in buying the Dunkmaster Darius skin, so I can only do better. Maybe I should just spam Wukong and Darius, as both can carry, and do so more safely than other champions as they don't necessarily need to build straight damage to do so, given they're both off-tanks.

Honestly, I'm just not sure where to go from here. Yes, I'm only at 53% with Garen, and am one percent higher with Wukong, but the consistency isn't quite there yet for Wukong. Yes, Amumu was a resounding success when I let him enter the rotation, but then there are others like Vi who I've gone 0-2 with to start. Sticking to the status quo doesn't seem to be quite getting it done, but I don't know that I'm okay with the risk that comes with branching out.

I should probably just focus on becoming a beast support more than anything else, as it's the only other role besides top or jungle that I end up playing much at all and my win rate is kinda pathetic when I do, but I guess I just feel I have a better chance of carrying myself up the ladder by getting even better at my two main roles of top and jungle than I do supporting. I guess I'm just at a bit of a crossroads here and have gone off on a little bit of a tangent from my main question. So I think I'll just shut up now.

P.S. Forgot to mention, I've jungled a good bit with Wukong, so I'm not as bad a jungler as my win rates with Warwick (3-5) and Vi (0-2) might suggest. OP.GG only shows my last 16 matches with Wukong, so these aren't all my jungling attempts with Wukong, but...

15/5/7 (Win) 2/5/5 (Loss) 13/7/11 (Win) 9/3/0 (Win) 25/3/16 (Win) 18/2/4 (Win) 6/9/2 (Loss) 12/8/20 (Win)

Wait, hold up. Why don't I Wukong jungle more often!? That's 6-2 in 8 matches with a 3.93 KDA, and an average of 12.5/5.3/8.1. Why the hell am I bothering with anyone besides Amumu and Wukong jungle!?

Anyway, Vi I wasn't adequately prepared for ranked with when I made the leap, and Warwick only saw play when I was still new to jungling since he's the obvious starter champ for that role, meaning 3-5 is actually better than I expected to do at that point in time.

12 Comments

T RexHasLongLegsApr 24, 20153 votes

I think I replied to a recent post you made but this seems to be a much stronger post for specific feed back. First off, 53% isn't a death sentence for Garen, if you really like him you can definitely go up with that win percentage depending on your other percentages. If you're who I think you are I recommended improving your support not because you can carry w/ it but because it lets you carry w/ other stuff easier. I made gold s3 mostly off nunu jungle but my promo to gold 5 came down to a janna game. If I hadn't been able to play support well I might have lost that game and been 1-3 instead of 2-2 going into game 5 of gold promos and getting to play my main champ nunu to decide my fate.

Essentially support is important bc if you have a 53% win rate over top and jungle you will go up in rank slowly but you will do it as long as your other roles don't bring that down. If you have a 15 or 25% win rate on support it doesn't take that many support games to bring your overall win rate below 50%. If you get it up to 40 or 45% win rate on support you can have a lower win rate on top/jungle and still climb even if you get stuck supporting a reasonable number of games.

It seems like you're most comfortable playing jungle and top (I prefer mid/top since you can find a lot of versatile champs that can play both of those, but it is more important to play what you like because it is easier to commit to learning and getting better if you like it). If I'm right about that I'd suggest looking at how to play as much overlap as possible on that. First throw in Darius if you like him and are having fun. I think he is stronger than wu top but that might just be me. I'd suggest trying to get your mains to a MINIMUM of 55-60% win rate over at least 20-30 games. I'm siting on 65-70% win rate with my main champ over 80-90 games and since he is about half of my ranked games I've gone from bronze 3 to silver 4 even though I have more champs at sub 50% win rate than champs above it.

If you enjoy Darius, Garen and Wu it sounds like you like bullies. Check out Lulu or Heimer top possibly as an AP option (especially bc if you are comfortable with them and like them top then you have a support or mid respectively that you are comfortable on and like when you have to fill those spots, also maybe chogath for the same reason). Finally I'd say if you like Vi or WW or some other jungle you can add them to the rotation, but why? If you like amumu and wu jungle just play those. Also if you like darius, go look up stonewall008 on youtube and search his past videos for darius. He plays some darius games in the jungle and it can be strong. Also he plays Garen top at plat and diamond so you might learn some Garen stuff to help improve your win rate on him. Basically narrow your pool down to at most 3-4 champs you really like playing in your most common positions (honestly I have 2 probably for my most common, but they don't get banned and picked often) and just spam them and get better. I only play ranked pretty much and when I was learning my main I went 10-10 or like 20-20 or something but once I got decent w/ him I was going on 12-3 streaks for the most part (or around that win percentage) and now I'm up to 65-70% win rate on him. If you love a champ don't worry about win rate until you've played 30-40 games on them and spent that whole time learning and trying hard to get better. If at the end of that you aren't regularly getting 5, 6,or 7 wins in a row with them it's time to look at where you aren't learning or what you're doing wrong.

EkkoFrofflesApr 24, 20151 votes

55-60% is what I've been shooting for. That's doable with Wukong, as a mere 2 wins gets me to 55%. I would've been at 56% already had I not lost my first ranked match with him in 21 days. It wasn't my best performance, but I don't know how much more I could've done under the circumstances. Spent the majority of the match ganking, as all 3 lanes needed help. 10/9/12 is solid considering the circumstances, I think.

Lulu, I tried as a support. Simply put, I hated her. Heimerdinger, I like mid, but haven't tried top. Oh, and how does Heimerdinger support work? Wouldn't his turrets steal CS? Do you hide your turrets in bushes to zone out your enemy and then use your E for the stuns and your W to poke?

Darius jungle is a thing I've tried, and I liked it well enough to consider trying it if I first pick Darius top and am countered. Vi was someone I learned because 1) she's one of the strongest junglers and 2) she's similar enough in play-style to Wukong that, if he's banned or picked, I have someone else who can fulfill that same role. Same with Sejuani, who I learned as a back-up to Amumu.

Now, since I'm a list maker, here's who made the first tier in my personal champion tier list.

Top: Darius, Garen, Wukong. Jungle: Amumu, Wukong. Support: Nautilus, Sona. Mid: Heimerdinger, Malzahar. ADC: Graves.

That, I think, is probably a sufficient rotation. For jungle I have a tank and a carry, plus alternates for each (Sejuani, Vi). For top, I have a champion I can pick into any situation (Garen) and two off-tank carries, plus Malphite as an alternate if I need a proper tank. For support, I have both of the two main support types, which are the tanky initiator and the supporty support, plus Leona as an alternate for Nautilus and Soraka as an outside possibility for a Sona alternate once I've put in more time with her. For mid, I have probably the two safest picks, at least for laning phase, in Heimerdinger and Malzahar. Heimer AFK farms with turrets. Malz AFK farms with E. Both can get surprise kills if your opponent is dumb or underestimates them. As alternates, I have AD (Wukong) and CC (Lissandra), with Ahri a possibility down the line to fill the assassin slot. And for ADC, Graves should be all I need, as I've only had to ADC 3 times in 220 matches. If he's banned or taken, there's always Caitlyn, the safest pick of all the ADCs.

Besides the champions listed, the only ones I see myself devoting much time to (that I currently own) are Shyvana (top/jungle; tele/smite top), Master Yi or Shaco (low ELO carry assassin jungler), Fiddlesticks (AP jungle), Azir (another AFK farm mid), and maybe Annie (mid/supp), Blitzcrank (initiating supp), Hecarim (top/jungle), LeBlanc (assassin mid), and Morgana (mid/supp) because they're strong, popular picks and I can see myself improving with more practice.

Thanks again for your advice! :)

T RexHasLongLegsApr 25, 20151 votes

I may be biased since I recently limited my champ pool for ranked by a lot because I realized I was playing stuff just because it was different and my wins were really about how my team did rather than if I influenced it, at best I was neutral on the stuff I didn't play and if I helped out it was synergy (played a pretty meh game of Wu jungle recently where I probably won the game not bc I was any good but because the game came down to some late game team fights and I go some really good wu ults catching both carries plus the jungle or support and we had a Yasuo who was doing well on our team who wrecked their carries and my team cleaned up).

Right now I'm playing Heimer mid/top, nunu jungle, and Janna support. I'm spamming Lulu games to add her mid/top/and support, but really just play those champs and don't play ADC since I played it about as often as you do apparently and I just got rid of the rune page eventually since I only have 5 pages and if I tell my team I can't ADC there usually isn't any issue.

Heimer top is pretty awesome if you enjoy him at all I'd say try it out. There is a master/challenger player named phasekiller who streams on GBKTV (on twitch) if you want to watch some heimer games and think about what you can improve. He definitely isn't a support so my bad for not wording that better.

I may be really biased since I'm too lazy to learn like 10 champs to the skill level that I want to be able to play at in ranked, but I definitely prefer a small pool and learning to play champs in multiple roles that can do it. Here is my suggestions if you decide to go that route (totally fine not to, but you have to practice more to get to the same strength on all the champs).

Top lane: I would consider dropping Garen if you don't like him more than Wu and Darius because it splits your focus for improving at every champ you play and makes it harder to add an AP champ top and still keep up w/ getting better at the same rate. If you like playing him the most keep him but otherwise consider tossing him (and maybe toss wu or darius if you keep him). For AP tops I'd say look at Heimer, Liss, and Vlad and pick which one you like best since they all work top or mid depending on the game.(also consider if you're gonna add morgana support/mid that she is also a strong top and playing her 3 different spots means you can pick her every game if you are in the first 3 picks which is op for a comfort champ in terms of how often you can play it if you get good w/ her).

Mid Lane: It sounds like you don't really like playing it so you're probably fine with just one of the three I mentioned above if you don't play it much. You could also consider Kennen who plays top and mid, and even support in the current meta.

Jungle: Your other favorite role. Amumu and Wu is solid here. Consider adding Darius or Nautilus if you're gonna get good w/ them anyway as being comfortable in team fights on the champion is awesome and having more options to chose from is always good if you're going to be learning them anyway and it doesn't detract from your ability to focus and improve on a few particular champs. (Shy, Yi, Fiddle, and Hecarim all could be added here too as they can also play top, top, support, and top respectively, but if you don't like them don't play them as you probably want to drop a champ if you add one of these since you want to be able to focus on learning each champ you play really well)

ADC: I don't know that you actually need to play this honestly. What's your win rate as ADC? If you're 1-2 across those 3 games you could have saved LP by just dodging and waiting 5 minutes and the extra LP would help your climb. I realized that I was bad enough at ADC since I never play it and don't practice it (plus knowing I'm not good at it puts me on tilt and I play even worse), that I was better off just not playing it and if I ever REALLY have to I can just dodge and in the long run I'll save LP and rank up easier by doing that.

Support: Nautilus is really strong and I like the sona variation here. I think that's a fine pool and would consider practicing nautilus Jungle if you really like him (again, check out stonewall's youtube for tips and videos on jungle, and while I'm at it How to top lane is a pretty awesome youtube channel too if you like top lane). The only stuff I would say here is that IF you wanted to play annie mid and like her enough to practice her you could add her as a support, and if you want another AP option in the jungle and were gonna add fiddlesticks you should check him out at support too.

I hope that was useful and not just me being a jerk and saying something stupid like don't have fun just climb. If you like the variation and don't have a favorite champ then 4 or 5 champs in the one or two roles you like most is totally fine, but honestly in bronze I think it is easier to climb by just playing a couple champs and REALLY working hard to get better at them. I know it worked for me at least :D

EkkoFrofflesApr 25, 20151 votes

Mid & ADC: It's not that I don't like them. Just that I so rarely end up having to play them in ranked, and that I didn't have anyone I was comfortable with for either role until I found Heimer, Malz, and Graves. And I like that now, if I'm third pick and top and jungle are already taken, I can mid or ADC respectably if I so choose. Oh, and I'm 2-0 with the only other ADC I don't suck with, Caitlyn. 0-1 with Trist.

Support: I think what's holding me back is no support runes. Currently I have an AD page (armor yellows, scaling MR blues, and AD marks and quints), an AP page (same yellows and blues, since I haven't bought flat MR yet, but AP quints and magic pen marks), and an ADC page (similar to the AD page but with some attack speed mixed in). All the support runes I see people running tend to be all armor and health, more or less. And Riot's gonna have a 2 for 1 rune page sale here soon, so I could up my total to 5, giving me two that cover most of my AD and AP options, one for support, and two as flex space, so to speak. Maybe one could be general jungler runes that will fit the junglers I play most.

Anywho, I'm just on break at the moment so I can't write any further in response to your post.

T RexHasLongLegsApr 25, 20151 votes

Makes sense about the mid and ADC. As long as your overall win rate in any role you play very seldom is over 50% then keep it if you have fun. Otherwise drop it and just play something else so you can improve your win rate. I don't mind playing support and have a better win rate on it than ADC so I just don't play ADC, but if I had a better win rate on ADC I'd probably play it.

For runes the pages number is definitely important if you play so many different champs. I play mpen, flat armor, flat mr, flat ap (reds,yellows,blues,quints) and it works just fine. It's effective for a lane I want to trade a lot in and there are enough AP supports that it works well for me usually (great on supports that harass and bring damage like annie/morg/lulu but I run it on utility like Janna too bc I don't have another rune page just for janna). The only other rune page I run for support is mpen/flat hp/flat ap/flat ap. I have that page set up for Heimer vs melee match ups top bc I can usually end up about 20-30 cs up by our first back against melee top lanes when I take 50 AP and lvl 2 to show up to lane :D (get your jungle to start bot and take krugs or gromp. you take almost no damage and have level advantage, I'm level 3 against a level 1 melee top on a fairly regular basis and it is hard to cs w/out getting chunked hard w/ that diff). It's great for top Heimer, but it also works for Morg/Annie if I want to go ham and either lose or win the lane in the first 4-6 levels. It's kinda risky though so I don't do it often as support.

EkkoFrofflesApr 25, 20151 votes

We'll see how it goes once I take them to ranked. Don't think I've won a single match going mid this season, but that's with champions I lacked experience with and Wukong, who can kind of mid, but robs your team of its main AP source.

And, like I said, I've only ADCed 3 times this season, so we probably won't see that too, too often. Unless we have one of those situations where everyone apparently sucks at ADC (and has OP.GG stats to prove it) and I know I could be the lesser evil there.

As far as runes are concerned, if I stick to Naut and Sona with Leona and Raka as backups, I'm assuming the armor/health centric runes would work for Naut and Leona and that some hybrid pen would be a good idea for Sona and maybe Raka?

Oh, and your Heimer strategy sounds a lot like the first benefit of going tele/smite top, which is you can do a camp, recall, then come back to lane ahead a level.

EkkoFrofflesApr 26, 20151 votes

Just thought I should let you know I played my first ranked match with Malzahar. Top and jungle were the first two off the board, leaving mid, ADC, and supp. Since I kinda want to hold off on support as much as I can until I've completed my rune page (need 9 health seals, 2 armor marks, and 3 armor quints still), and since there's less pressure on you mid lane than ADC, where "carry" is in the damn name, I went mid.

All things considered, it went well. We lost, but this is one case where I'm struggling to think of what more I could've done. Our jungler DCed after level 5, leaving us without a jungler for a large chunk of the match. Our support was Lee Sin, of all champions, and he started DCing intermittently later on in the match. Top really struggled without a jungler there to help, ending the match 2/8/5. Without a jungler in a 4v5, it was near impossible to pick up a dragon, especially when my team kept going for it or trying to contest it when the enemy had numbers on their side, and when I wasn't in the vicinity. The enemy team got 3 as a result. And my team was just generally all about going ham when one of a couple things was the case. 1) They were in deep, 2) we had no vision, 3) they were outnumbered, and/or 4) they were squishy and should never be front-lining (i.e., Ezreal).

Just to give you an example of what I mean, Xin Zhao and Lee Sin were at our inhibitor turret facing off against Azir. He had his turret up. Both of them dive him, one after the other. You'd think when the first one died, the second would've known better, but no. This is more or less how Azir got all of his kills (16/10/9), and I was always the only one who was able to safely neutralize and/or kill him.

Give me a competent team, or at least one capable of staying connected the entire match, and we likely win. I was 3/0 against Azir during laning phase. Picked up at least one double kill, though it may have been two. And even got a triple.

M4nTiCoR3Apr 24, 20151 votes

Climbing the ladder is as easy as having a 51% win rate and playing a lot of games. Everything else sets you back.

EkkoFrofflesApr 24, 20151 votes

I know you want above 50% overall win rate. I was wondering where the win rate with the champions you play the most should be.

M4nTiCoR3Apr 24, 20151 votes

Well ideally it will eventually be 50%...because you will climb the ladder to a point where you are not climbing anymore. At that point you will be playing people at your same skill level and having very contested, competitive, and hopefully fun matches.

If you are suddenly winning more than 50% you need to keep grinding to climb higher to where you belong.

AhurathApr 25, 20151 votes

When I started to climb from silver I had almost 60-70% winrate with all my adcs. But eventually as I've gotten higher to platinum 1 now it's getting harder for me to win as much.

This is due to the fact that i'm playing against better players that have a easier time exposing my weaknesses when I play against them so it's a natural thing.

But as some people here in this thread has already stated. Every champion can be played until high elo but some are better then others. For example lane bullys works really well in soloq since they can dominate the lane and snowball from that.

Good luck on your soloq travels.