When "counterpicking"...

PlsTouchMeGently·May 3, 2015·24 votes·2,314 views

Okay, so every champion (theoretically) has a few counters that are listed on various websites, etc. Kayle, for example, is generally seen as a hard counter to Zed. However, whenever I pick Zed and my lane opponent picks Kayle, 9/10 times I have a super easy lane. Why? Because that person never plays except when they see picked, and are not extremely adapt at playing her. I would much, much prefer it if people would just pick champions they are comfortable with playing instead of "counterpicking" champions they have very little experience with. I picked Lux into an Ahri recently, even though I was completely aware that Ahri post-6 would be a challenge. But I faced that challenge with a champion I know well, and went something like 12/3/16 to Ahri with a negative KDA at the end.

TL; DR - When someone picks a champion that you think you know the "counter" for, don't you dare play said counter unless you know how to do so.

31 Comments

MrBuffingtonMay 3, 201514 votes

The best solution, imo, is to have a champion pool of like 2-3 champions that you know how to play well and can help cover the others weaknesses, in the even that you get hard countered/don't think you can handle the match up with a particular champion. For example, let's say I main Vayne and Ezreal, and my opponent picks Caitlyn. Unless I'm very confident in my Vayne, I'd prefer to pick Ezreal, not because Ezreal counters Caitlyn, but because he'll probably have an easier time in lane than Vayne.

Spacesuit SpiffMay 3, 20155 votes

LCS has convinced half the soloqers that a dead gopher lying on a keyboard could win certain matchups, or win against a non-meta team. Consequently, when they see either they play even worse than that gopher would.

Solari FortuneMay 4, 20155 votes

Skill with Champ > Counter Champ

PlsTouchMeGentlyMay 4, 20151 votes

That might be an even better TL; DR xD

RikariMay 4, 20153 votes

Season 4 and 5 I used to main Irelia and Lux. For my Irelia,i could get fed off of even a Nasus. My Lux play can beat a LeBlanc. Cancer like Yasuo and Zed will always be cancer.

ZergReapMay 3, 20152 votes

Zed should beat a Kayle in lane overall, despite the ultimate. Your point is valid though. You might as well pick a mediocre match up with something you main instead of second timing a champ in ranked.

I can always picture players doing this, lol. Their turn to pick, they are against Jax top alt tabs -> googles counters to Jax -> locks in Pantheon. What do I max on Pantheon? hehe

PlsTouchMeGentlyMay 3, 20151 votes

And they find some weird guide that tells them W maxing is op so they do it xD

AFK PushMay 4, 20151 votes

Shit, so I have been doing it wrong this whole time? kappa

T RexHasLongLegsMay 3, 20151 votes

To be fair vs stuff like jax and fiora I play malph top and I'm not nearly as good w/ him as I am my main champ but I still win more than I lose by a fair margin and have a 5 kda on malph just because he provides SO much to the team in a match up where multiple champs are attack speed reliant and he can stack armor pretty hard and do well with that build.

blueberrypancakeMay 4, 20151 votes

As a Season 4 Kayle main I loved playing against Zed

But now that I'm shifting over to Support and didn't play her a ton after the nerfs to her E where they reduced her ratio to .25 from .3 she was still viable top.

I just wonder where she's gone because she melts tanks pretty well.

Note: Silver 2 Kayle main, not the most reliable source.

Aria ValkyrieMay 4, 20151 votes

Kayle still can beat the heck outta Zed. If you know what you're doing. You can't just pick up a new champ and beat him, but if you're smart and time your E (until you get the golden 40% cdr), you can kite him pretty easily. It might be a bit tricky with the shadows, but if you can manage to keep the majority of the damage out with an ult, you can win p well in lane. And if you wanna play safe. . . of course item 3140 works on her. I made a Zed quit by building it and keeping out five ult-ignite combos. It was a fun day

T RexHasLongLegsMay 3, 20152 votes

I think this is generally true but I haven't seen this yet in the comments so I'll throw it out there.

Lane counters have a way easier time, so sometimes they are worth picking over your main champs if you know how to use them to a minimum standard. I lose lane generally as malphite against anything that he doesn't counter, but against stuff like fiora he has such an easy time that even though I'm weaker w/ malph than the champs I main, he is still a better pick. I think the only time counters are worth it is when you understand WHY they are a counter. As long as they can play Kayle okay then you can lose lane as long as you don't feed and stay at least close in terms of CS and kills Kayle can be a game changer in team fights. However, if the Kayle uses her ult wrong then the pick doesn't matter. If I was gonna go even and not crush you in lane w/ my main though, I might be better off as Kayle and slightly behind since I can ult our carries when you ult them and negate the assassin potential of Zed which is a huge shift in team fights to keep our ADC up. Similarly Malphite brings so much damage reduction against a team w/ two or three champs that are reliant on auto attack speed for damage that if he is even close to even when it gets to team fights then he probably has a bigger impact than other picks.

TLDR; If the counter is strong enough and you can play it well enough to keep close at least then it might be worth it.

PS If you're the type of player who goes all ADD and plays a ton of champs counter picks are pretty important probably because you need an advantage to keep up if you don't know the champ inside and out.

Occams RaiserMay 4, 20151 votes

Most people are Bronze and silver. Counter picking should not apply to these 2 leagues. Pick what you are good at and ask for help with the lane. you will get more out of it. A counter only works til mid game. Playing what you are good at works the whole game.

T RexHasLongLegsMay 4, 20151 votes

While I tend to agree that skill with one champ is the easiest way to carry in these divisions (in my experience at least, since the only time I got to gold was primarily playing one champ), I do think some counter play can be good even at these low levels.

A lane counter matters very little in low ELO, but a good counter shines primarily in mid to late game. We are talking about things like Malph versus heavy AA reliant teams, or picking Janna to kick Kennen out when he tries to land a good ult on your team. Some counters are so useful to how they change the dynamics of a team fight that as long as you aren't bad with them they may be worth playing over something you are better with because the utility in mid and late game will outweigh the skill difference you have with the champs if it isn't huge.

Of course you should never ever play something you are legitimately bad at, so if there are counters you want to use at least get good enough at them to make it worth it, even if you aren't gonna main them ever.

Occams RaiserMay 4, 20151 votes

true to all.

JunkοMay 5, 20152 votes

I honestly feel like Kayle doesn't even counter Zed, at least not early. You can easily poke her and even kill her before level 6, and you can force her into using her ult past level 6 because your damage is just way better early game.

DedriusMay 3, 20151 votes

I agree to this 90% of the time, but there are some picks that trash others so much that as long as you are ok on the champ, you will be fine. I am a katarina main and people pick Liss to counter me and I can usually trash them if they are just picking because its a counter. However when someone picks Diana, there isn't much I can do since her whole kit is a counter to my whole kit. As long as you understand how a champion counters another, you can sometimes be ok picking the counter.

T RexHasLongLegsMay 3, 20151 votes

Even within that there is some flexibility. Syndra is about as hard counter as they come to Heimerdinger, but if you adjust your play style you have a chance against Syndra if it isn't their main. Maxing w instead of q shifts your power, but you can poke down and kill a weak opponent in lane even though Syndra make Heimer cry in lane. Once you get an advantage you can build some AP and suddenly your turrets have enough hp to survive her throwing them at each other and your rockets HURT so you have a chance to do pretty well from there.

CubedJusticeMay 3, 20151 votes

I once faced a Syndra as Heimerdinger and made her promise to not throw my turrets around.

DedriusMay 3, 20151 votes

I prefer to throw his turrets into my tower or into the river, it seems to be more effective.

T RexHasLongLegsMay 4, 20151 votes

But then you can't kill 2 for 1 if you are doing enough damage to kill the turrets instead of just relocate them.

Byakuya KuchikiMay 3, 20151 votes

http://www.championselect.net/ + www.probuilds.net

UndertowsMay 3, 20151 votes

I will pick Viktor into any mid-lane matchup because that's who I'm most skilled with, its not a game of so and so beats that champ so I'll pick them. It is a complex and skill based game and I'll take experience over something seen as OP or Countered.

Sirin GioroMay 3, 20151 votes

I pick Ezreal into anything. Vayne? Draven? ezpz, because I know how to play against those champions. well except for Graves

Jungle Lux GodMay 4, 20151 votes

This is a really good point. You won't win if you don't know how to play the champion you are playing, regardless of how good of a matchup you have.

Also, if you frequently play in an unfavorable matchup enough you will learn how to play that matchup enough that you may have an advantage by virtue of having more experience in the matchup. Heimer might have a bad matchup against Syndra, but if you play the matchup 100 times you will know how to deal with Syndra. She will still counter you, but you at least know how to deal with her.

insaiyanbaccaMay 4, 20151 votes

hence the reason i try to keep my comfortable champion pool as large as i can

WalkingInACircleMay 4, 20151 votes

Something I think is that knowing my laning opponent gives me an opportunity to know if I can pick a bullyable champ that has a stronger teamfight presence. You don't have to counterpick for lane victory, but safepicking a champ that excels after the lane.

AndroidYumiMay 4, 20151 votes

This. I often blind pick Katarina and end up fighting things Lissandra/Diana/Kassadin a lot then get told they picked them cause they "countered" Kat. I often win those match ups more then fighting simpler champs ._.