What To Do If Behind As Vi

Howldoom·1/8/2015, 7:17:48 AM·1 votes·2,197 views

Title says it all; last match with her as example: http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1690055634/203289894?tab=overview

Our Sona seemed obstinate and was just building as a mage; when I asked her "Where's your Sightstone?", she just said "Where's yours?"; so I ended up getting it, even though it's not something I should have to have been getting as anyone other than a support or Lee Sin. That's my explanation for having it in the first place.

So pretty much the lanes got far behind faster than I could have been in a position to help them. When I go to help one lane, the lane on the other side would be losing or the laner I was heading towards would all in and get creamed. Was I wrong this game or were they?

Additionally, the only suggestion I got (from the other team) when I asked for help in post chat was to be tankier and not to rush Trinity Force between finishing my jungler enchant (Warrior on Stalker's Blade) and then building defense for the rest of my slots (what I usually do; it's listed as an "essential item" and I've always gotten good results from it).

For point of reference: I start golems on blue side, Gromp on red side and clear towards top in the first clear. I take W at 1, E at 2, Q at 3, then max R>Q>E>W. I clear everything but the razorbeaks in the first run before going back, then try playing as the map demands: I try to gank when I can or as it's needed depending on my location, and farm when I can.

Personally, I think I only do well as a jungler when the lanes are at least playing safe and not giving more kills to the enemy team while being in need of a gank. So what I'm trying to ask is:

  1. What should I be doing as Vi in general? Am I building/playing her right in the first place? Or beyond the typical fighter setup, is there even a single "right" way at all?
  2. What do I do if I'm Vi, and more than one of the lanes is losing hard?
  3. Or when the enemy laners are getting fed off of kills before I even have anything built?
  4. Or when I'm on one side of the map trying to help someone and either the other side decides to go ham and feeds (hopefully unintentionally) or the lane I'm headed towards suddenly gets more reinforcements? In the latter case I just walk the other way; maybe the allied laner(s) needed me, but they died before I got there and I am not going to try attempting a 1v2+ against fed enemies.

I guess you could say it was an example of a game where the loss was inevitable, even without the 4v1 surrender.

5 Comments

TehNACHO1/8/2015, 8:04:26 AM4 votes

Our Sona seemed obstinate and was just building as a mage; when I asked her "Where's your Sightstone?", she just said "Where's yours?"; so I ended up getting it, even though it's not something I should have to have been getting as anyone other than a support or Lee Sin. That's my explanation for having it in the first place.

Don't think of the Sightstone that way; especially as a Jungler. Wards are always invaluable and having a second champion contributing towards them will always, always, be useful for the team as a whole. Really, the only champions who shouldn't itemize Sightstone are full carries, like the mid laner or bot ADC, because they need to worry about maximizing slot efficiency above all else due to how gold+finite item limit works. Otherwise, from utility tanks to Supports to Fighters like Vi, the Sightstone is fair game.

So pretty much the lanes got far behind faster than I could have been in a position to help them. When I go to help one lane, the lane on the other side would be losing or the laner I was heading towards would all in and get creamed. Was I wrong this game or were they?

I feel like there is a lot of context missing, but I'm going to simply state that: The lanes messed up on their own, but if you made any mistakes as a result of their actions, that's entirely on you.

Additionally, the only suggestion I got (from the other team) when I asked for help in post chat was to be tankier and not to rush Trinity Force between finishing my jungler enchant (Warrior on Stalker's Blade) and then building defense for the rest of my slots (what I usually do; it's listed as an "essential item" and I've always gotten good results from it).

It's...well it depends really.

Vi is rather heavy on CC and utility, meaning that full tank Vi will always, at the very least, be useful. Raid Boss Vi however (Trinity Force+Usually a Blade of the Ruined King) is how you can carry between a combination of knowing how to carry and being snowballed in the first place.

My personal opinion when it comes to any Raid Boss type champion in the Jungle is to rush your Smite Upgrade (duh), rush Phage, then evaluate the situation. If I'm actively being called into lanes to gank, especially if I tend to be on the receiving end of a lot of damage, I would probably try to build Tankiness/CDR from that point onwards until I am sure I require Tenacity (then that's the time to consider enchanting the jungle item (Juggernaut)) or I feel that I am safe enough to go back to building my damage items. If I'm ganking on my own terms and/or I'm allowed to power farm, I'd finish my damage items first to maximize clear time and burst potential.

In this situation, it sounds like you were spreading yourself very thin through ganking and supporting lanes. In other words, unless you are some ganking god and got kills every time you walked into lane (I'm guessing you didn't), you will not have the gold to finish Trinity Force in a timely manner. If that was really the case, CDR Tank itemization is how you round Vi off and guarantee your own safety, while still leaving the option to return to being a Raid Boss later in the game (This is why I specify CDR Tank. CDR is how you get a Raid Boss to go insane).

For point of reference: I start golems on blue side, Gromp on red side and clear towards top in the first clear. I take W at 1, E at 2, Q at 3, then max R>Q>E>W. I clear everything but the razorbeaks in the first run before going back, then try playing as the map demands: I try to gank when I can or as it's needed depending on my location, and farm when I can.

Personally, I think I only do well as a jungler when the lanes are at least playing safe and not giving more kills to the enemy team while being in need of a gank. So what I'm trying to ask is:

What should I be doing as Vi in general? Am I building/playing her right in the first place? Or beyond the typical fighter setup, is there even a single "right" way at all?

As a raid boss player, and a witness of the terror that is a fed Raid Boss Vi, I think you should at least learn that itemization route.

Raid Boss can be categorized with 3 things: Trinity Force+BotRK for dueling potential 40% CDR to maximize on their skills (Raid Bosses tend to have impactful skills and built in steroids, but the skills themselves lack scaling, thus CDR is how you maximize their effectiveness) Being tanky as hell

As a Jungle player, BotRK can be swapped out for the Warrior Enchantment if you are focusing on high impact, low downtime fights instead of dueling.

Generally, actually building goes like this:

  • If you are allowed to power farm all you want, rush your damage items, rush CDR, then build tankiness.
  • If you are required to gank a lot, CDR and Tankiness are your priorities, depending on how the ganks in question are going. Lots of risky ganks with a lot of fighting back? Tankiness. Safer ganks that revolve around good opportunities? CDR. It's really a case sensitive thing though.

The important thing to remember - and this applies to virtually all champions by the way - is that item builds should never be static. Yes, you should have rush items, and yes, it's good to have a clear idea of what you want by the end game, but these are guidelines, not set rules or laws. Be sure to build for as the situation calls or to take advantage of said situation, don't hamstring yourself by being stuck doing the same thing over and over again.

As an aside, Sightstone actually isn't supposed to be run in true Raid Boss sets, but Vi is on the very borderline of being a full Raid Boss in the first place, so ehh...

What do I do if I'm Vi, and more than one of the lanes is losing hard?

How badly?

Vi is amazing at turning around lanes if you play right, but only if the lane is worth saving. If Jax is just one kill behind Gnar and is keeping up in CS, yeah, that's a really safe lane to gank and try to turn around. If Fiora is 5 deaths to Garen and has no farm at all, ignore it, get back to farming/ganking winning lanes, and just be sure to keep an eye on Garen if he leaves.

Or when the enemy laners are getting fed off of kills before I even have anything built?

This is why you build tanky early if necessary.

Or when I'm on one side of the map trying to help someone and either the other side decides to go ham and feeds (hopefully unintentionally) or the lane I'm headed towards suddenly gets more reinforcements? In the latter case I just walk the other way; maybe the allied laner(s) needed me, but they died before I got there and I am not going to try attempting a 1v2+ against fed enemies.

Return to point made about how badly things are going.

Again, Vi is good at turning things around, you just need to recognize if something's capable of being turned around or is flat out hopeless.

Leti the Yeti1/8/2015, 8:29:51 AM1 votes

I think the problem here is not only are you falling behin, your sona is being a bitch i think thats too detrimental for me to save myself out of in other scenarios where you are simply falling behind, you really just go tank sometimes im so skeptical that thorn mail ends up being my 2nd or 3rd item

you have to.. have priorities and... willing to make sacrifices now these sacrifices come at the expense of certain laners so prepared to get yelled at, BUT THEY HAVE TO BE MADE If more than one lane is behind, you have to access everyone's value, as arrogant as that sounds Who is getting rekt on your team and how much are they worth? Who is getting fed on their team and how much are they worth?

Botlane, typically has a very high value and if I'm torn between which lane to save... It would probably be bot lane or in other cases, that fed riven top has alot more value than fed maokai top and I should make an effort to stop her and not maokai in the same scenario

There are cases where its TOO DANGEROUS to save a lane, usually you want to solve the problem before it reaches this state if it comes to that where ganking might give them that double kill, you are going to have to let that lane die and camp someone else in hopes that they get fed

OduyaWannaDie1/8/2015, 10:32:00 AM1 votes

When you are behind as jungle and your lanes are losing its time to circle the wagons. Objectives, not kills are the priority. Getting yourself back on gold parity with the enemy jungler is paramount. Watch your map and encourage warding. Predict your enemies movements and your own team's needs and move accordingly. You can't help all of your team all of the time. Prioritize and focus on winning small battles.

If you didn't understand any of that, then quite simply, get better at jungling. Sometimes all of your laners will lose. This may or may not be because of you. When this happens you will likely lose the game. Don't let all of your laners lose. A little research on who your stronger laners are pre-game goes a long way. Securing first dragon is very important. Stop listening to Sona supports on how to play/build.

Sometimes you need to take q lvl 2 and lvl 2 gank a lane. See nasus, kassadin, vlad, vayne scaling.

Drunk Rummate1/8/2015, 4:36:13 PM1 votes

If you're behind on Vi you should farm passively and gank your strongest lane every time your ultimate is off cooldown.

If you're ahead on Vi you should constantly gank bot lane and look for double kills, or snowball your midlaner so that they can roam and help.

TheJuzzo1/8/2015, 10:41:48 PM1 votes

Yea...Some alright advice posted here, I don't agree with a lot of it, but each person plays the way that works for them.

I never build trinity on Vi....Take a look at the black cleaver, then compare to Vi's skills...See how they sync up?

Normally go Jungle item, BC, botrk, randuins, warmogs, boots. Late game can sell the jungle item for ga or whatever the match calls for.

You will learn the back and forth of ganking, and this lane losing while you are here or whatever, just by playing a lot...Seems to me that getting a lane with a good potential carry fed before worrying about the others is a good bet. A good Vi score will look a lot like a good support score, lots of assists. (maybe a few more kills than a support)

When behind, I prioritize the tank items, and try not to die. (in addition to farming as much as I can) If you don't get the sight stone, buy a few wards every back (do this even if not behind), ward for the idiots that aren't if need be....Don't bitch at them, just ward for them when you see a need.

Also, when behind once the group fights start, you are no longer an engage...you are a defender....Hang around whoever is dishing the damage on your team, usually mid+adc and land a load of hurt on anyone that dives them. Lee sin come flying in on your adc that couldent dodge his ball thingy? Slam that blindy, then q punch him, give your team a chance to just take him out.

A lot of it seems to be that you just need to keep playing, after being in the same situations many times, you will start to have a reference of what worked before and what didn't. i.e. when you are running through the jungle with a team-mate and run into a group of 3-4 enemies, run away....Your teammate may engage, then bitch "You didn't help Vi!!!!!!"....believe me, you made the right choice...I laugh to myself at these people (as they rage at me).

w fires on the third hit...learn to count...auto auto E.....or Q auto E...Don't blow the e without the w buff on it as much as you can. (You will jungle much better remembering this..faster clears, less damage taken)

Maybe more later, at work gtg