When are items viable buys (AP mid)?

Riften·10/15/2014, 8:16:32 PM·2 votes·1,503 views

I know it's something I should have learned seeing as I've been playing for over a year now.. but there's a little shame in saying I've never really learned how to buy situationally. So, I stick to guides that suggest so-and-so (religiously buying Rod of Ages on Karthus, Tear of the Goddess) but was actually wondering.. when do you know to get these things? I saw an Annie VS Zed in Ranked, and she picked up Rod of Ages instead of Zhonya's, so I was kinda curious like.. is that a preference right there, or maybe a cheaper buy, or.. in what way does it make buying RoA viable?

I'm not judging them at all if that's what it sounds like, I'm just really curious. For the most part I'm ashamed to admit when I'm in games, I just ask my friends over Skype what I should get if I'm falling behind or what to buy if I can't handle certain champions in team fights.

Any input would mean a lot!

12 Comments

Magma Lux Mid10/15/2014, 9:14:32 PM2 votes

It's hard to say what to build without being in the actual match-up. Usually you'll want to build to counter your opponent's damage (grail if they're AP, zhonya if AD). An exception would be if you are dominating your lane you might go for a needlessly large rod instead.

I'm no expert on Karthus, but I have heard conflicting things about building tear and rod (takes too much time to build up, etc).

Later in the game you need to think of things like "Am I staying alive for most of the fights?" Build more damage. "Are there enemies that rely on getting resets?" Build a GA. "Do I need to avoid a specific CC/spell?" Build a banshee. "Are they heavily AD based?" Build a randuin or frozen heart.

JollyAmoeba10/16/2014, 7:12:29 AM2 votes

I'll give you an example and then explain why I did what I did. Earlier tonight I was playing Jayce top VS tryndamere. This matchup is fucking terrible after tryndamere hits level 6. My goal was to stop his splitpush and hope my team would win in the 4 v 4. The first 2 items I built were item 3070 and item 3134 , my core items. After that I built situationally. To survive tryndamere trying to tower dive me I built item 3047 item 3143 and later in the game finished off my other items. Ultimately my team ended up winning because the other team's only win condition was tryndamere's splitpush, which I built to counter.

How did I decide what to build? I realized ahead of time what I believed I needed to do (had a goal in mind) and thought of which items I might need to achieve that goal.

Lao Fu the Tiger10/15/2014, 10:08:40 PM2 votes

How was the Annie doing?

The fundamental question is, "What is the opportunity cost of buying one item over another at any given point in time?" Rod of Ages is a core item on certain champions, and Hourglass is staple on almost all of them. So for these mages, the question ultimately isn't whether or not TO buy these items, but WHEN to buy these items. In Annie's case, it may be possible she wasn't being harassed that much by Zed and didn't particularly need the armour. Or perhaps with her E, she was able to avoid enough of Zed's ultimate damage that she didn't need to rush a Zhonya's. More likely, however, Annie players would save their stun for when Zed ulted and immediately counter-engage on them. In this situation, the stun needs to come out immediately when Zed reappears from his ult. An Hourglass active lasts two seconds, and by that point Zed has already retreated back to his shadow.

There are two main aspects when choosing which item to buy in what order: a) survivability, and b) aggression.

Let's talk about survivability. You're in lane and you KNOW they're very aggressive or pushing you fairly hard. In this situation, you simply buy what is causing the most trouble for you. If you're Diana getting harassed by Orianna, get an Abyssal Scepter to nullify a lot of her damage while still giving you enough output. If you're Fizz and the enemy Yasuo is pressuring you, rush the Hourglass before the Lich Bane. It doesn't mean abandoning your core items, but build according to what you need to live.

Second is aggression. Now YOU are the one pressuring the enemy. What do you need to penetrate through THEIR items that they've bought to negate YOUR damage? Stacking MR? Buy a Void Staff. Are they simply building health against you? Grab a Deathcap.

After your core is bought (in the order necessary for your situation), the final items that guides say are "situational" are strictly that - you buy whatever you want, preferably what helps you most.

Trinityunicorn10/15/2014, 9:32:32 PM1 votes

I hope you get more input I'd be interested to read the answers. There are so many variables to learn, all the items and each champions kit and your enemy's kit too, then the opposing team as a whole. Good question!

CrispCrustacean10/16/2014, 2:25:53 AM1 votes

So an example would be if i main Syndra , she needs early mana generation. She doesn't spam spells enough to benefit from a item 3070 but also a item 3027 doesn't give enough AP for a normal Syndra biuld.

So in a normal Mage vs. Mage matchup Syndra would buy an item 3174 but say i was against a Zed then there is a wasted MR stat from the That is why you would need to think of an item that wouldn't give wasted stats, but still give Mana Generation Personally, since AD champs benifit from lifesteal and Syndra needs CDR and mana regen, buying a item 3165 wouldn't be a bad item to have

Tl;dr If you are against a champion that gives your build unneeded stats, change your build to fit the other champion

Dont Smite Me10/15/2014, 8:32:54 PM1 votes

ill gladly help although tbh i just got dont typeing for 4 hours so forgive me when i say i dont feel like typeing all that much XD but ill add you in game and explain over skype if you would like

ACGIFT10/16/2014, 1:24:48 PM1 votes

The core part of understanding situational building is to always ask yourself a few questions:

"What is the dynamic of my current lane?" There's several ways a lane could be being played... Often reliant on the matchup, but also as well on how each person is deciding to play, and what role ganking and roaming is playing. To give some examples, a high harass/exchange lane, where one or both sides frequently poke and prod at the other, will favor builds that can maximize the ratio of damage dealt vs. damage received. By contrast, in a slower, more passive farm lane, things are going to favor longer-term sustain: minimizing how much time you're away from lane (backing, etc.) will mean you can soak up the most gold and win the later game. Meanwhile, if ganks are heavy, you'll want to make sure you're building to always be READY for them; whether you're on the attacking or defending side, higher durability and sustain means you're more likely to be ready.
"What does this item give for each situation?" To take the Annie vs. Zed example, I'll look at the first-portion items: The Seeker's Armguard vs. Catalyst the Protector . The former will grant AP and armor, vs. HP and mana. If the Zed, like most, is frequently making use of his cooldowns to constantly harass Annie, then taking the Armguard will help her out; the armor to blunt the damage, and extra AP will ensure he doesn't get away without paying a little. But if it's a passive or gank-reliant lane, that Catalyst will grant far more sustain; more health means more to wear down, and critically, that keeps her 300 mana further from being out than she would otherwise; that's enough for a full combo should the opportunity present itself.
"How will this item play with my kit?" Tear of the Goddess presents us a classic mid-lane example here. To get proper use out of it, you have to cast as many as 188 spells. For someone like Karthus who constantly spams his Q with a 1-second cooldown, this is no problem; just farming alone he'd readily hit that by the 200 CS mark. But for champions with higher cooldowns, who aren't constantly using their abilities... It could take forever to stack it up. In those cases it might be better to take just the flat mana with a Catalyst, or go for just the regen (plus magic resist) with a Chalice of Harmony.
"What do the other nine champions have built right now?" ALWAYS keep a lookout for whatever the rest of the match is building... Not just your lane opponent. A few key examples: if none of the enemy team is building magic resist, then Void Staff may be a dubious buy; flat penetration or reduction will tend to have better results, so Abyssal Scepter or Liandri's Torment will get you better results. Similarly, if the jungler (such as Amumu) already built the Abyssal Scepter, then even if it fits your champion, it'd likely wind up being redundant in teamfights, so you should try something else.

This is all something you'll want to be thinking about throughout every match. An especially good time to spend thinking this over is whenever you're going back to the fountain, be it by pressing B or dying. In the latter, I recommend ALWAYS opening the recap, to see who and what gave you trouble. That way you can adjust what you're building to keep yourself on top.

Sammander10/15/2014, 8:33:09 PM1 votes

In my opinion, when Annie rushes a RoA in a Zed match-up, that's probably her making a bad decision.

So, as far as Karthus goes, generally speaking tear + roa is a good way to go. This build promotes passive play early, and a strong late game. There are cases where you'd want to build differently - situationally.

If you're playing against an Annie + Lee Sin who are going apeshit on you, it's probably best to skip tear of the goddess, buy a chalice or just go straight into a catalyst. Build defensively so that you can survive the early game (your late game won't be hurt that much).

If you or your team is snowballing hard and you want to press the advantage, maybe rushing a haunting guise before roa+tear would be good (though I wouldn't do this personally).

Buying a voidstaff against a team without a single MR item might not be as good as an abyssal scepter.

Deciding to buy a deathcap before zhonya's might be a good call if you're not dying / scared of the other team wrecking you.

Edit: I'd say that Annie Rushing RoA is viable into Zed, just not optimal. The same goes with following a set build path every game, as long as it's decent (tear + roa on karthus is viable every game but not always the best call)

Rustling Bush10/15/2014, 9:00:26 PM1 votes

i don't think roa is a good idea against any zed, i don't play ap mid but i know zed can rush a early brut, with that he can shred your hp like butter