Spellthief's or Ancient Coin?

dinkaroo·6/3/2015, 3:20:14 PM·1 votes·14,557 views

I've been wondering which is better on supports for a while now. I understand the base stats and what champions should get which based on their stats, but which is more useful in terms of gold income?

Edit: Okay, so this thread is pretty evenly split between the two items, so, based purely on gold income, which would be better for supports like or who can use all three stacks of Spellthief's in one AA, but must get relatively close to the enemy to do so, risking taking relatively high amounts of damage, and usually have to stay back until they have the opportunity to poke/AA effectively?

28 Comments

Takananoshi6/3/2015, 3:47:09 PM4 votes

When you're using supports like..

Sona, Soraka, Lulu, Nami, Lux = Spellthief's Edge Leona, Taric, Alistar, Nautilus, Thresh = Relic Shield Janna, Thresh, Blitzcrank = Ancient Coin

Yeah...I would use either one with Thresh, but I am merely showing examples xD

Swampmajikk6/3/2015, 3:27:39 PM4 votes

probably in the end the coin gives you the most its just over a longer period of time, since the spellthief is on a charge system and depends on hitting champs and structures.

SexyTaylorSwift6/3/2015, 3:38:58 PM2 votes

Coin gives you more money, Spellthief gives you more AP. Pick whichever you need lol. I typically use the 500g upgrade for the support item, and then just sit on it, buying other items. Relic shield, however, is worth the upgrade all the way in my opinion.

Teachan6/3/2015, 4:08:42 PM1 votes

After the coin buffs, I'd go coin over many things. Hell, I'm starting to consider taking coin over relic shield on thresh. Relieves the stress of messing up using your procs.

The number of cannon minions who don't die from your auto. item 3070 :(

dinkaroo6/3/2015, 4:27:10 PM1 votes

Thanks, everyone, for your replies!

So basically what I'm understanding from your guys' comments is that Ancient Coin has more sustained income while Spellthief's is good early game, but becomes useless mid/late game. Is that correct or am I misunderstanding something?

KiyoReiryu6/3/2015, 4:27:16 PM1 votes

item 3303 SpellThief gives you a lot more. Especially for aggressive supports (I.E. Nami Karma Lulu ) It gives you passive gold as well as the benefit of earning your own gold by harassing the enemy champion.

Stats +5 ability power +25% base mana regen +2 gold per 10 seconds

Passive UNIQUE - TRIBUTE: Your next damaging ability or autoattack against a champion or structure will deal 10 additional damage and grant 5 gold. You generate one charge of Tribute every 10 seconds, storing up to 3. Killing a minion disables this passive for 12 seconds. You may only be in possession of 1 Gold Income item.

Passive supports benefit more from the coin. ( Blitzcrank Morgana ) and Aggressive Melee champs play better with Relic sheild ( Thresh Leona Alistar )

Vekkna6/3/2015, 7:18:13 PM1 votes

The only real reason to get spellthief, imo, is the added base damage on procs. The ability power is pretty negligible until you build it into Frost Queen's.

As a rule of thumb, I go for coin 95% of the time because it's less dependent on random factors like opponent aggression, momentum in lane, jg presence, your ADC's skill, etc. Plus, the added movement speed, CDR, regen, and on-use tend to be more useful overall throughout the game's phases whether you're winning or losing.

The only support I take spellthief on is Zyra because she has such safe and sustained poke throughout the game. It's still a hard choice because of how badly she needs MS, CDR, and regen. By our first team fight I usually wish I had gone with coin.

Xonra6/3/2015, 7:25:36 PM1 votes

Ancient Coin still isn't a great choice right now, as it's core identity was "play passive, get mana regen, here is some passive gold", then a speed boost, which was pretty good.

Spellthief gives passive gold (without someone else having to kill minions to give it), has mana regen, ability power, gives you extra gold for just about everything you attack outside of last hitting, and the maxed version has a great slow active.

I might sound biased, but that is because I was a big fan of coin before, and it has just fallen out of even its own niche spot and is just a, get it maxed for speed, which Righteous Glory does now. Coin just isn't great on most supports compared to the other two.

Basically any tank support should be going the Relic Shield line almost without fail, including some non tank champs like Thresh, and just about every other support, since they are going to be mages, should be going Spellthief's line, as there just isn't a reason to grab coin instead.

You could maybe argue that it would be okay on Bard, if you have a Sivir and Hec on your team, but man that is situational.

SnugglePuggle946/4/2015, 7:19:09 PM1 votes

Besides Soraka who you get Ancient Coin with, I usually start spellthief's on every other AP champ, unless I need to do relic shield, which is I do for my tank supports (Sejuani, Taric, etc).

Lxst6/5/2015, 7:05:54 AM1 votes

Here I go somewhere I can actually put an opinion first of all the ancient coin with the buffs gives a lot more gold than before and can almost tie with the other income items (relic shield and spellthief's edge) IN TERMS OF GOLD second of all ancient coin is just bad in lane it can work in situations where you can't poke them at all but even then spell thief and relic are just better in lane BUT in the late game coin is the best of all of them 2nd being relic and 3rd being frostqueen's but really most of the time I will sell my income item before it gets to 3 tier and go straight into talisman for bard and lulu well.. lulu needs to get it so she can poke and disengage when they come onto her so the adc can get free dmg and bard HAS TO HAVE IT if he doesn't he will not do anything lane. bard is not a laner let him roam and set things up spell thiefs give the pressure he needs

iluvalar6/7/2015, 4:54:03 PM1 votes

item 3302 generates the more gold. By a lot ! But require a small effort from both players. Also, as soon as you leave team it's useless. Which forbid you some decisions. I don't like it that much.

item 3301 is the next step. Mainly because in some rare occasion, you'll get gold from 2 lanes.

item 3303 is often the best. Because it generates gold even for a mid laner right on the lowest tier. It gives the most stats for your gold. It's the go to item for champions with lots of poke as it pays for itself the faster.

adkoralmighty6/11/2015, 1:11:33 AM1 votes

for me it is very situational if i am playing a poke support against a lane i know i can take advantage of (for example) Vayne + Alistar ill go spelltheifs to get easy procs

however if i am going against a lane i want no part of (for example) Thresh + Draven

so pretty much aggressive item 3303 passive item 3301

item 3302 for all tank supports I even use it on blitz to give my adc some sort of sustain and switch to get item 3069 later

Rueian6/11/2015, 6:18:22 AM1 votes

coin is bad and you should feel bad for buying it. Spell theif gives you everything coin gives you and more. Coin has terrible gold generation and an upgrade path that has been replaced by another item.

Drunk Rummate6/11/2015, 1:43:16 PM1 votes

depends on the champion. coin is good as !@#$ later in the game because you can just spam the active in so many situations when normally you would have held onto it. spellthiefs is good for laning and trading with your opponent but it falls off a bit lategame and its hardly even worth finishing frost queens.

PS: Spellthief will give you more gold income only if you are keeping it below max charges at all times. Every time spellthief hits 3 charges you're losing gold, the longer it stays on 3 charges the worse it gets.

TotN Titan6/3/2015, 3:37:43 PM1 votes

I believe that it really has to do with the kind of support champion you are using. I have been playing quite a bit of Morgana lately and I must say that I have been pleased with the gold income I receive from Spellthief's. Tormented Soil gives me +5 gold every tick that a champion stands in it, so my gold is constantly ticking up in the laning phase. That being said, after the laning phase I always sell my support item (since the value of upgrading to the Frost Queen's Claim is not as good as other items later in the game).

That being said, I do use the Ancient Coin with more passive and disengage supports that aren't always in trading range to get the procs off of the Spellthief's Edge during the laning phase. Talisman of Ascension is a pretty beast engage and disengage tool in the mid/late game and has good value. It has a higher gold income at the end of the game for me just because I will always upgrade that item to max when I play Janna and Soraka.

Skia Asteri6/3/2015, 3:42:03 PM1 votes

Since its buff in 5.10 coin line is broken.