Trying to be an entire team...

DeloricVI·Mar 21, 2015·2 votes·1,454 views

Can someone please give me a way to win something... I'm not a bad player, but one player can only do so much when the other team has all good players with champions like akali, hecarim.... annie, graves, and I'm the only one who doesn't feed kills... at least not at first, but when my entire team feeds kills for 10 straight minutes, they get me too....

Behind minions isn't safe, 5000 feet away isn't safe, under tower isn't safe, in the shop isn't safe anymore, half the time. I've tried everything.... I'm playing a great champion that I've practiced with and understand the mechanics of, at least enough to do the job. I'm not LCS material, but I can win, I know I can. I'm landing my skill shots. I'm almost killing people, but then someone else fucks up and screws my game up. Over the course of the last month I've lost about 5 games to trolling and 10 games to other players feeding, and I occasionally join them... When it happens I feel so powerless... I want to be morg just long enough to land her snare, then I want to jump into our tank, have him stand in front of me, then flick back to my carry and then do damage, but no one wants to be where they should be and no one wants to play this game right...

The further down I descend in bronze, it's like the people on my team get worse, but the other team stays the same as when I was in bronze one. Yeah, over the course of the last month I've been demoted a grand total of 6 times. I haven't won a game in a week, my teams think that one kill is gg and we lose because no one keeps high morale no matter how much I try to keep it up; they just don't listen when I say it's not over. And because they don't believe me, it comes to pass...

Can someone please help me... somehow. I don't want free elo. I know I'm a good player, but I just can't play this game 10v1.... it's how it feels when your whole team feeds. It practically doubles the size of the enemy team, and leaves you all alone... the one person that knows what they're doing...

19 Comments

hh the thinkerMar 21, 20153 votes

believe it or not, if you are going down in the ranks, you are doing something wrong. also, if you are going down In the ranks, the other team is getting worse and if you don't see that, then it's just you not seeing it.

one thing that helps sometimes is to just relax and not go try hard, but keep trying. it can sound a bit silly, but if you are so focus on winning, one mistake can put you on tilt sometimes.

main thing is, if you are going down, it's not your teams, it's most likely you. it often means you are on tilt, you are unlucky (this doesn't last too long), or you are simply not good enough to win at those games which means you need to improve more.

Im neurotoxinMar 21, 20151 votes

^ this all day

I understand that feeling (like you're the only one on the team that knows what they're doing) but instead of looking at the rest of the team, find out what you could have done better and see where it goes from there. It's easy to explain away your own mistakes as "the rest of my team sucks" but when you give yourself that hard criticism, the rest falls into place. Now, I'm probably not the best one to be responding to this as I made a thread on here similar to yours not too long ago. However, I do feel that I'm getting better at my role as a support and consequently winning more games by strictly looking at what I could have done better.

For example, I've been forcing myself to be more situational in my item builds and trying to figure out my ADC's style of play instead of telling him/her what to do and thus far it's been working out for me.

DeloricVIMar 21, 20151 votes

Ok, how about this scenario? everyone dies at least 5 times before 10 minutes. I die for the first time at 11:50. Who's the bad one on the team then? This was the story of a recent game. I know you have little sympathy for anyone bronze, but I know how to play the game. I take all the criticism and I learn from it, but most of the time people just tell me things that I already do.

Buy wards - did you not notice that I'm currently capped out for placing wards right now? I put them in choke points of the enemy jungle. Pay attention. Position better - let me refer you to garen who is just hanging out running in circles behind us for some reason, or better yet the fizz that you fed 20 kills to already and is now in my face. get better at last hitting - 90 creeps at 10 minutes.

I've followed all the advice I've been given and it doesn't make a difference. Unless I'm completely missing something huge that's right in front of my face, I'm going to say it's not entirely my fault. I've taken the blame for everything for long enough. I've improved a lot since the beginning, but practice on mechanics is scraping the bottom of the barrel of diminishing returns.

I also can't help but see that you're not even level thirty. Unless this is a smurf account, I think you don't know what you're talking about. HH, you're fine.

Also, knowing what you do, what do you suggest I do if you have all the answers? If the entire team feeds their lanes to crap, what am I supposed to do as any given role, if you know this game so well?

DeloricVIMar 21, 20151 votes

I don't mean to come off as toxic, but when I'm told that something is my fault over and over again for months, I do everything everyone says I should do, and it still isn't enough. I still lose and get demoted 6 times, I am well within my rights to be frustrated to get the same "It's probably your fault" generic boilerplate answer of someone who's never played a game with me.

Im neurotoxinMar 21, 20152 votes

Your point of view about the problem is the real problem. You've already shown that you are a toxic player. I'm sure that in your games you're just as hostile. Be more helpful to the other teammates (offer advice, not orders; help out in other lanes; be more jovial; etc.) and stop being so judgmental. If the game is at a loss, just cut it loose and don't have any emotional ties to it. At that point, just have fun with it. This is a game after all.

And you're right, I'm not an experienced player but as such I'm probably more qualified to give you the other side of the story than anyone else here. I know people and how to treat them IRL and believe me, your approach towards other people's shortcomings can either change it for the better or make it worse. Your choice.

DeloricVIMar 22, 20152 votes

Trust me, I know that positive energy wins games. What you're proving to me right now is that you don't understand context. In this context, I'm talking about why I feel like I'm losing so much. I don't attack people, not matter how bad things get. If people get toxic (e.g. when my support and adc are arguing) I'm the person that says, "Arguing won't help, it'll just make things worse," and then dispense with advise, e.g. "Just farm under tower, and I'll gank/roam/whatever fits here for you soon. We can do this."

When I start the game, I try to get people to talk, at least a little so they aren't "that guy" that just ruins the game for being a tryhard. I point out cool skins, make jokes, wit back and forth, say that we got this, which is especially important if someone in champ select says things like, "They have Zed. GG." or "Bad team comp, GG"

The only reason I'm coming off as so toxic here is because I didn't put all that toxicity on my teammates. I was (and still am) looking for good advice about carrying games. It's a little unclear, but it would be nice to have some way of knowing what to do when, say, Darius feeds 10 kills to Gnar, and he rampages through the map because Darius calling for help got our jungler killed as well. This whole "rant," I needed that at the time. Would have probably been nicer if I could find someone who could relate with me instead of, from what I can tell, someone who's never seen ranked play.

I wouldn't have had the same comment to follow up if the original post said something like, "I know what it's like to have a bad team, or trolls, but..." That little half of a sentence makes a world of difference. As is, this all comes off as pretty hostile to me. It's the nature of communicating through the net via text. The "rant" in my head was more of a sad, hopeless feeling than angry, but look, you thought I was just plain enraged.

As far as the whole shortcomings thing goes, I do genuinely try to give advice instead of blame, and I even take blame when appropriate. I'm not so deluded to think that I'm playing perfect. If we get aced, I'll point out what went wrong in the nicest way possible, and then say what I did wrong.

I hope that you can see a little bit better that not everyone who exhibits some form of toxicity at one point is always toxic, or doesn't know that hostility makes games an overall worse experience.

ZmuecatMar 22, 20151 votes

I looked at your match history, and this is what I got.

You die, ALOT. You are negative in 9 of 10 games. The losing ones I looked at it seemed like you weren't the cause of the fed enemy getting fed, but you should go out of your way to be alive a bit more often. This will give you more time to CS, and more time to defend.

You need to ward A LOT more. Of the games I looked at (the losing ones) you did not buy a pink ward, exceed 10 wards (except on your support game, but you only placed 13 wards), and did not upgrade your trinket.

I'm not saying these two things will fix whatever is happening to you, but it should reduce your chances of losing a tad. And if it's a winnable game, these things can tip the scales.

And warding is a FOUNDATION of this game. Always ward. Always buy a pink (even if you just put it in your jungle) at least once. You can afford it, I know you can cause I can as a support. Always upgrade your trinket. Warding. Wins. Games.

Im neurotoxinMar 22, 20151 votes

Yeah I did lose sight of the original objective and I apologize. Like you, I was mainly venting due to the overwhelming amount of rage post on this board specifically. This post is where I spend most of my time because I'm not an experienced player (I've never tried to hide this from anybody, I'm still learning the game mechanics and champs) and I would want the boards to be for useful info instead of people raging. It doesn't seem that this is the way this board is used more often than not and I've begun to view any amount of hostility as toxicity so I'm sorry for that.

I don't really have any useful input for your question though. I just wanted to apologize for tilting and venting.

hh the thinkerMar 21, 20152 votes

it's not about winning all of your games, it's about winning about 60% to 70% if you want to climb. if you want to stay were you are, you need to win 50%.

while no one is saying it's 100% your fault for every game, it's your fault for the rank you have since you get that over many games. even if you have teams that feed every game, it would mean that at your elo, it's easy to kill them and that you aren't taking some free kills because you may just not see them.

if you want to carry about every game I bronze, you need to get ahead early, and this can be hard to do if you don't see their mistakes.

playing in bronze, you could get just as fed as the other team gets from your team, you just don't see the mistakes as easily. this is where learning comes in. you have to watch for positioning, and not just yours, but your team's and the other team's. you have to poke whenever it's free and force poke them if you win in trades so they are either low in lane or you force them back and get ahead in cs.

basically, you have to get a lead one way or another, and then you have to push that lead more and more.

if you manage to win about 70% of your games, then you will climb and should be happy and not worry about the 30%. if you have less than 50%, then you are making game mistakes overall that's bring your team down (even if your KDA is good and you aren't feeding, this doesn't mean you are helping your team).

the other thing is playing consistently. if you have a bad game and lose it for your team, you saying it happens is both true and can be a problem since the game might have been easily won. the next game might be much harder and a loss which equals two losses instead of 1 for 1 which is even.

to climb, you really have to win almost all of the easy wins, and some of the hard wins. 50% of games are hard, 50% easy (even if it doesn't feel that way). if you have less than 50%, you are losing about all of the hard games and some easy games also. mmr can play a part of this also, but having low mmr, games should become easier and high mmr for your rank, games become harder.

you should also look at the reason you want to climb. if it's to get good teams that do well in lane, this kind of doesn't change as people lose lane sometimes, it happens. if it's to face harder games, then that's a good goal, but it sounds like you have good practice at your point so far. the only thing that really changes the higher you go is that you get harder games. that's about it. they don't get easier because better teams because the other team also improves as well.

if you want help, I could watch you play a game of ADC or something and let you know what you need to work on. just add: hh the thinker or reply here and I should see it.

DeloricVIMar 22, 20151 votes

My reason to climb is to get to a place where teams are less of a crapshoot. I have quite a bit of game knowledge because I research a position before I play it. If I'm playing mid, I know my champion's mechanics, I know when to roam, how to roam, where to ward, when to push, and what to build when we have a situation on our hands. A rough majority of the ADC's I've supported have no idea that anything but a Kill Lane exists for a given bot lane team composition. I mention that Sona is better used for a sustain lane, and they're like "What's a Sustain/Farm Lane?"

I presume that the number of people who don't do their homework slowly start to diminish as I get out of bronze. I'm not looking to get carried, but the champions that I want to play need most of the rest of the team to know what they're doing. This was mainly what I was talking about. Most of my teammates don't have as much game knowledge as me, and half the time I lose because they don't know that Ashe-Sona is a lane that isn't meant to prioritize kills; it should probably prioritize farm and objectives.

Best example, I love jungling Sion, but you may have noticed that he doesn't exactly have the best damage output. So, when I come to gank, and my ADC doesn't know how to receive a gank and follow up, I die, the support probably dies, and it's soloqueue, so you know the other team has a champion like Vayne that only needs one double kill, and then they just faceroll the game. Because my carry made a mistake, the enemy team gets to exploit that until the other four of us lose. At that point, because my carry also usually doesn't understand how to cs under turret, they usually keep the vicious cycle going until it's game over. I've seen it happen too many times, so I stopped playing the champions I liked, and started playing champions that can carry a game and are "good for soloqueue."

Any game that can have a winning side and a losing side will always have some tension and frustration involved for the losing party. I get that, and that's why I try my hardest to not let it get to me, and when it does, I take a break. I know you can't play league angry and expect to go anywhere. This frustration happens more often than not. I haven't crunched the numbers, but my win rate is all messed up. It's got to be below 20%. Whenever I notice basic things that my teammates don't know when they called their roles, and they blame me when I'm at such a clear disadvantage because of the mess that they made. There was a recent thread where someone says that they're a support main and they compare being a support to being in an abusive relationship and while they're "inside and taking a verbal beating," they say that, "outside, in the jungle, I hear whips." That's pretty much why I got so worked up. So much misplaced blame. I'll admit that I'm sure that my win rate would probably be about 30%-40% if I was a bit better, but there is so much blame placed on me it makes me feel like in this thread. When people start dying in lane, I end up scrambling around to help everyone and it just doesn't work, and late game after I roamed or ganked for people, they still made a mess of things, and we still get destroyed.

Matthias9119Mar 22, 20151 votes

My reason to climb is to get to a place where teams are less of a crapshoot. I have quite a bit of game knowledge because I research a position before I play it. If I'm playing mid, I know my champion's mechanics, I know when to roam, how to roam, where to ward, when to push, and what to build when we have a situation on our hands.

I think you need to take a long look in the mirror. Your last few wins on Veigar had atrocious CS numbers for a champion who is built around last-hitting to get Q stacks. In one of your last wins in Sion you had less gold than your support -- in fact less gold than every player except the enemy support. I'm sure you have had some bad teammates too, but you have plenty of things to work on yourself.

Focus on what you can control -- your own play. Good and bad teammates even out. Like someone else mentioned, the other team is making mistakes too. You're just not exploiting them, either due to a lack of mechanical skill or because you're on tilt and not playing well.

I also think you overestimate how much "facerolling" other champs can get away with. ADCs especially are prone to getting caught out and blown up instantly late game if they get overconfident.

I can't really speak to the viability of jungle Sion in general, but you might want to consider trying some other things out. If your problem is the enemy ADC going crazy, Rammus is a great counter for that, for example, much more so than Sion. Amumu and Sejuani have strong ganks and AOE damage. Volibear is harder to get away from than Sion. Mundo can be insanely annoying and can permaslow if you're accurate with axes.

Veigar is also not the easiest mid to carry with, as he falls off late game unless you get a TON of farm. If you want an immobile combo mage who can wreck team fights, try Brand or Orianna or maybe Xerath. I'm a big Swain fan, but it's a different play style...

DeloricVIMar 22, 20151 votes

Thanks for the advice.

-on overconfidence: when the enemy adc has any damage and I'm our adc, I stick to the tank(s) like glue because I know how easy I can get blown up

-on Sion's viability: it's really hard for me to say because whenever I play with a friend that knows how to follow through with ganks, it doesn't seem to matter, but it does seem like there could be champs in the jungle with more cc, or more heavy cc (e.g. volibear's displace). I do use amumu sometimes, but whenever I play him I sometimes forget that I don't have the same sustain as Sion... most of the time I can clear the jungle twice over and sometimes gank if I'm lucky before I even go back the first time as Sion. But as Amumu I don't even get to the Krugs camp before having to back. Minor annoyance, but I guess it comes with learning my champions better and playing champions with different strengths and weaknesses.

-veigar: yeah, I noticed. Especially now, because his stun has a delay on it, which, as far as I can tell, used to be instant cast. I hear they recently bumped it down from a .75 second delay to a .5. Also, Xerath is like... the scum of the midlane, imho, but I can't really complain because that seems to be what I'm asking you for... Whenever I play against him nowhere is safe and he never runs out of mana... disgusting.

BluePolarizerMar 22, 20151 votes

then you better aim for D1 because high gold and low plat is true elo hell.

DeloricVIMar 23, 20151 votes

lol, I don't doubt it... when you make mistakes at plat, you probably get murdered. By both teams.

The people that I'm talking about are like... the people that only know how to mid, and when they get support they just pick Sona and end up feeding, and going like... 0-20 by 10 minutes. Things like that are inexcusable in ranked. You better at least be able to function as another role before you consider doing ranked games. It's called League of Legends, not League of Mid.

There are a lot more things that I could point out that people do in my ranked games, but I've done enough really long posts, and I'm sure you can think of your own. lol.

IridisMar 22, 20151 votes

I used to get upset over losses before I took up ranked in Season 4 (I joined in the pre-season). I found that my solution to this was to admit to myself that I am not good at this game, and that I can improve. You saying "I am a good player" - sure you might be a good player, but you are in bronze. You have a lot to improve upon. I would always blame myself for my deaths in normals before I played my first ranked game. It made me not get angry at other players, but instead I would look at my plays and understand what I did wrong. If you truly have the mechanical prowess to climb out of bronze, that is exactly what will happen.

If someone is being rude to you, just mute them. There is a command /mute all for a reason, and you can use it if you don't want to talk to your team mates at all. Other than that, refrain from saying anything to them that is negative. Even giving someone in bronze "tips" can be perceived as being mean to someone that is on tilt. A positive attitude will go a long way, especially if you are winning your lane and are positive towards your teammates that aren't doing so well. If you are winning your lane then ROAM and help them. If you are a jungler and your mid lane gets first blood on its own, camp that guy and get him fed. Secure early dragons. On most junglers, I get dragon at level 5.

I looked over some of your recent matches as well. I'm going to say this as nicely as I can: but you need to work on your decision making I believe. In many of these games, you have 10+ deaths with less than 7 kills. The kills part isn't that concerning, especially if you're losing. But you should try to play more safely if you notice that you have a lot of deaths. Don't go into risky situations without vision. You can't say that it's ONLY your team when you have contributed ~25% of the kills to the enemy team. Sure, help your team if you can, but if you know that you'll die if you help them, don't do it. Sometimes, people get caught, but that doesn't mean that you need to run into their Sejuani, Oriana, and Morgana as Sion without vision.

Also, I know you've probably heard this like a million times, but practice your csing. You say that one double kill happens and Vayne cannot be shut down. What if you are a fed Zed that is 3/0 in lane and you roam bottom with the jungler? Well, RIP Vayne if you do it right. 1 kill = roughly 13 cs, which 2 waves of minions. So say, you're 3/0 and you have 135 cs at 20 mins (I'm being realistic). Your enemy is 1/3 with 90 cs. That means that you have the gold of being 6/0 plus a little bit more, like 150 more gold. So you should go in a custom and practice. It can help you carry. You can carry in bronze, no matter how bad your team mates are. If you are strong enough to help them get kills in team fights and single out members of their team. If you start winning team fights, your team mates will get kills, helping them to catch up.

One more thing, when their fed champion is an ADC, build armor. You were playing Sion in one game (I know I'm using this example a lot), and their AD Ezreal was 15/3/10. You didn't have any armor. You had a Banshee's Veil, a Warmog's, and another Spectare's Cowl. It would have been more useful to get your Banshee's but instead of more MR, get a Randuin's Omen. In another game, when Kassadin was 10/3, you built Randuin's Omen; it would have been more useful to invest in a Banshees' Veil or a Spirit Visage.

I know I am pointing a lot of mistakes out on here, and I am not trying to be rude or anything. I am actually trying to help you. I was Gold last season, but I think that I have improved since then by playing normal games recently and analyzing my own games.

TL;DR: Work on dying less, csing more, building for the fed members. Work on focusing on your own game and not raging. Help your team and be positive.

DeloricVIMar 22, 20151 votes

I appreciate you trying to be careful in word choice and trying to find a solution. It must be arduous combing through someone else's matches. Just the word choice itself is something that I am grateful for.

As for your suggestion on cs, I do get around the recommended amount of cs by 10 minutes, usually. As for jungling, my camp clear is quite fast, from what I've been told.

As for how many deaths I have, I admit that it is my fault to a degree. When someone is vastly fed it is difficult for me to determine exactly how much damage they do. Sometimes, if they have an incredibly bursty character getting fed, it's one or two hits before I go down. Naturally there's probably more to be tanked as Sion, however, he's not exactly agile, and tower diving can be really easy if you've been plucking kills like low-hanging fruit. Later game deaths as Sion usually occur from improper following up or positioning from my team. Most of the time, when I die as Sion in the late game, everyone that can deal damage worth keeping alive has gotten too close and died, leaving me to 1 v 4. That or they've already retreated and I have enough cc on me that I'm going nowhere any time soon.

In some games my cs can look horrible. If I happen to be playing adc that game, it's probably because no one I get wants to support and claims that they can't. I compensate for this, but I can't stop them from taking a Thresh hook to the face. All I can do is stand back (because the enemy carry and support are at too high HP for me to take them) and say "RIP Lulu." This leads into one of my major feeding problems. Maybe if I'm playing Jinx and I have all of my abilities I can throw down some flame chompers and take a shot with my zap pistol, but from there I just have to cross my fingers and hope. Other times, the other team starts teamfights well before 20 minutes (because they can and they're pretty sure that they have one person fed enough that they'll win the fight; they usually do). It'll be about 12 minutes in, and they all gather mid, so no more farming for me, time to teamfight.

As for that game with the Ezreal, I mistook a couple of his items for AP items, built a banshee veil, and by the end there was no way we could win. That was pretty clear. It's not like we both had objectives and one good team fight could put us even or get my team close to winning. No, no one on my team could stay alive, so spirit visage was essentially me going. Yep, we just lost our nexus turrets, this is pretty much over. That oversight was certainly a mistake and one that I don't intend to make again.

I guess most of my problem boils down to how am I supposed to not die when there's at least one person that's so fed that they can tower dive me when I'm at full health and get away with it because my team can't fight? It's bad enough that someone let their lane get that fed, but most of the time, I can't just push and roam. My enemy laner is still there, I miss cs, and he can push to the tower and essentailly negate my roam by roaming to the same place, roam in the opposite direction where he knows I'm not, or just deal heavy damage to the turret. Very rarely do I get a kill that I can roam after, or very rarely do I get to actually bully someone out of lane. You can only expect so much out of one player.

As for your point about early dragons (I know I'm jumping around a lot) when should I be taking them? Should I be doing it solo? Should I only follow it up after pushing someone out of lane? I like to think that I have a good handle on when to take dragon, but the problem with that is that as soon as I find a lane that can successfully follow me up, someone else is pinging 20 times for help because they already fed 3 kills. I mean, I'm trying to play Sion jungle when I get put there. Am I right to think that Sion jungle just isn't good at this level of play that some teammates tend to have? I'm really trying not to say that every adc I get is terrible... but when they are there is no ganking for them.

IridisMar 22, 20151 votes

I'm guessing that the no following up is when you go to ult? A good solution to this is to look where your team mates are on the map and then run up the lane. If they are standing directly in front of the enemy team, I can guarantee they will attack them. One of your problems there could be that you are running past your team and they don't have time to follow up. I've done this before when I first played Sion. A good thing to do is ask yourself before you go for a play: Is there a good chance I could die if I do this? -or- Is there a good chance my team mate will die? And then, will it be worth it? Before you engage a fight make sure you look at their items if you're at lower levels for which characters are extremely strong. Example: Ezreal just got his Trinity Force, and my Jinx only has her components of IE. So in a case like this, you should be careful unless you have a health advantage.

You can get a lot done by buying a item 2043 on your second back. Good places are in bushes in/around river. It will give you good vision. I don't care if I'm jungling Master Yi or Nunu, I always, always buy that pink ward on my second back. If your support also buys one, you can have TONS of early game vision. Remember, if you can see a fed champion, you can avoid them - or set up an engage where they are outnumbered.

As for your support dying, I've also dealt with a support getting hooked by a Blitz/Thresh and getting chunked. The important thing is not to die, yourself. If you have to, let the outer turret go. It's more worth letting that tower go than giving a Vayne a double kill. Remember, 1 kill = 13 minions, so if you die too, that's 26 minions or 4 waves. If your support makes some bad plays, there is still a chance you can be relevant in team fights or even wreck them with good positioning. I mained ADC last season, and the most important thing is not giving them any more gold than you can help. Eventually, if your support keeps dying, they will be worth very little gold. If they are someone tanky, they will just get tanky and hard to kill but not worth very much gold. If your support is dying, just play back, cut your losses. If there are like 3+ mid, you should try to roam up to hold mid tower. Getting that 3 more cs of your wave is less important than giving up a tower in mid and drag. So even if you're adc, group with your team when you need to.

The answer to your problem of not dying when someone is fed enough to dive you : don't put yourself in a position to be dove. If you have a pink in the river (one from supp and jg), you should see them coming. Don't hesitate to buy pinks as ADC either. Chances are, the enemy team won't be expecting them or looking for them.

As for dragons, it depends on who you are. The junglers that I enjoy playing that are strong right now are : Vi, Nunu, Udyr, Fiddlesticks, Warwick, Hecarim, and Sejuani. All of them can solo drag at level 5. Warwick/Fiddlesticks/Nunu can do it earlier. The enemy team will not be expecting this. You should go in a custom and see which levels you can solo drag with Sion comfortably. I'm really not sure on this because I mostly play him top instead of jungle. Tank junglers are in the meta, but I haven't done much testing with Sion recently. I would say that he's very viable at Bronze 4 because he is tanky, doesn't die easily, and has good cc. I just like him in top more due to his passive that you gain 2 health for every minion you kill. So you can get infinite tank stats. The junglers I mentioned above are REALLY good right now, especially in bronze. If you need tips on any of them, feel free to ask. I hope this helped.

DeloricVIMar 22, 20151 votes

Thanks for the tips! Some of them in your post right now I hadn't heard, like the in-depth early dragon champion rundown. The tips for what to do when your support feeds are really helpful. Most of the time, I end up getting sucked in and everything... Sometimes the support does let them feed up to tower-dive levels, but at that point I'd probably be largely irrelevant because the enemy will likely have tons of armor pen an damage to deal with our tanks anyway...

Also, another thing, speaking of early dragons, a lot of my teammates want me to get even earlier dragons with my passive. I'm sure I could do it solo, but I'm pretty sure it alerts everyone on the map that the dragon executed me before I can kill it with my passive. I also can't smite when undead, so I'll have to do it before. Do you recommend this? I guess it depends on the situation.... if I catch an enemy jungle on a ward far away, I suppose I could...

I usually put a pink in the bush directly across from their red buff. Not the one along the wall of the red buff area, the one closer to base. No one really goes into that bush, so they don't usually see it, and it lets me know where the enemy jungle is.

As far as health stacks go, large jungle creeps like Gromp and the big versions of monsters in the camp give 10 hp. Not quite a minion wave as far as health goes, but you also get 10 HP on champion kills and assists... I also believe that the crab gives 10 stacks as well. I'll have to make sure next time I play Sion... would be good to know going in. Either way, his passive on his shield can let him gank, let the carry have the kill, and the assist will still give him 10 hp.

Oh, yeah, and the big cannon minions count as a large monster as well, so if I just take that one for minion tax (I only ever take 1-2 minions, whether I blow summoner spells or net my carry a kill. Most of the time if I just blow summoners I take none) I get at least 10 max hp from it... not as good as top, but I still scale pretty well.

IridisMar 22, 20151 votes

You're welcome for the tips; I like to help people improve, so I'm glad you liked it. To solo dragon, I don't think you need to use your passive to do it. It's alright to do that at level 1 on a camp if you're a top laner to get that early level 2, but if you're a jungler, there's so much chance the enemy jungler could steal the dragon when you're dead. I doubt they would even be there before level 5 though. I still wouldn't suggest it. If you don't want to solo it, gank bot. They will most likely back if they blow summs/get low. Then you get drag. Make sure you get a item 3341 to check if there are any wards. Good luck on climbing, I hope you get to the rank that you want~