Boards›Tips & Tricks

SUpport Questions and Wave control during Laning phase

SpellFlinger·1/15/2015, 1:52:03 AM·2 votes·2,404 views

I have spent most of the last year ( my first year) in Solo-Q learning game play strategy in general, like rotations, team play, and drafting strategy. Becoming efficient in every lane and role. Now that I have helped put together a 5s team its back to basics in perfecting my main role. That role is Support. So i figured id come here first with some questions.

When is it appropriate for me to help the ADC push the lane faster by damaging creeps? when shouldn't I? Currently, the only time i help push a lane (by help i don't mean taking last hits, just applying dmg) is if the enemies are out of lane and i want to get some tower dmg in. a few examples would be nice.

Is it appropriate for the support to effectively be the "shot-caller"? We are bronze/silver material so a shot caller isn't exactly crucial, we all communicate and make informed decisions together, I am just an arbiter when it comes to making decisions in situations that indecisiveness could be devastating, like weather or not to go on drag/baron etc. Just curios if another lane would be better suited? I was selected because I have the best knowledge of game strategy.

Also, any other next level Support advice, or sources of information where i can find some would be absolutely bad-ass and totally appreciated! Thanks!

11 Comments

KIei1/15/2015, 2:10:04 AM1 votes

Yes, the support can be the shot caller. If you are seeing things your adc or team isn't then go ahead and call it. I do this when I feel like my team is throwing. It saves alot more games than when you think about it. Be positive and never give up in a game.

When you want to help push a lane is I guess when you guys are both low after a fight and are looking to back. Just push the current wave that's there, be careful though as over extending can get you killed. Doing this denies the enemy laners exp since all the creeps will be dead by the time they get back. It also gives you time to walk back with your tower untouched.

F33dMeKills1/15/2015, 2:59:23 AM1 votes

1.) Yes, that's what I exactly do in my games. When Enemies are recalling to base or when were trying to push to tower, I'll lend in a certain AoE weak skills or buff for my ADC. Just remember to ping on the turret so they SORT OF get an idea of what you're doing.

2.) Honestly, it doesn't matter the roles you play to be the "shot-caller," anyone can be designated as the shot caller but people with a better knowledge of league of legends do better than those who are unfamiliar with it.

Vrashk1/15/2015, 3:40:44 AM1 votes

A few more instances when pushing assistance is helpful is when the enemy support is being incredibly passive. If you're allowed to do whatever you want with your positioning, and you have good wards in the enemy jungle, try forcing the lane to their turret. Unless their support is helping prep the minions, adcs will likely miss more cs under turret than otherwise. Also, if you're ahead in lane already and could feasibly win a 2v3, or your jungler wants to set up a situation where they could counter gank.

2000boxes1/15/2015, 4:58:21 AM1 votes

when you are a playing a tank support with targon's brace you always want to execute the seige minions

AsTheSunSets1/15/2015, 5:48:51 AM1 votes

Pushing the lane depends on a few different scenarios such as enemy position and team composition.

If you are playing Leona then you generally would prefer the lane to be closer to the middle or even your turret. It's hard to make plays with Leona when you are required to dive into the enemy team. Usually I would ask to let the lane freeze to where it's still easy for the ADC to farm, but I also have the opportunity to engage. You can't do great engages under turret at lower levels because it will punish you too hard. Once you get a lead though you can start diving under turret relatively safely.

Obviously supports like Thresh/Blitzcrank can make plays even while under the enemy turret so you should probably just push and help deny them CS.

Poke supports can be fairly successful wherever the lane is so I would let the ADC make the call for where he wants it.

If the enemy is roaming or applying pressure somewhere else then you should almost always push or respond. You want to force the other team to react to what your lane is doing most of the time. Either you will alleviate pressure in the other lane and force them to come back or they will lose CS/turrets.

I think for lower ELO anyone can be the shotcaller. When an enemy is caught out you engage. When CC lands and you feel the outcome is in your favor, engage. I think it all just comes down to recognizing when a priority target has been locked down and your team is highly favored for the engagement. Once you have pushed the scales in your favor, then you go for a dragon, baron, or turret.

fluffymc1/15/2015, 3:59:55 PM1 votes

Knowing when is knowing how, but understanding is different. Understanding is when you get free will. You can look at all the different scenarios, but that's only a portion of what you need to know. I cant explain it, but you'll understand later. To help you ill give you one piece of information. If you were playing baseball what would you be? The bat, glove, or ball? None of the above. You are the entire field. You control everything without anyone even understanding or knowing. The entire game is in your hands. You are the tactician.

Live2LetDie1/15/2015, 4:45:05 PM1 votes

Deciding to help push a lane or help cs is completely dependent on the situation. Lv 1 i will always help lower enemies in an organized matter so i make sure 2 creeps, the one i am focused on and the one the adc is, are never the same health. You want to help him cs not make them lose cs. After early levels it depends, do we want to freeze? well then hold ward up and hold S around waves. Are you being push to tower? Lower cs to keep the lane balanced and out from your tower. Is jungler coming? Let creeps push towards you so your jungler can gank.Drag about to happen? push that lane hard and rotate. These are just the scenarios i can think off the top of my head. Also if you Buy Shield make sure to use your procs on cannons so you get the extra gold.

2)Shot calling is for the person that is the most confident and knowledgeable in the game. Your team also has to trust you to make the correct call and not question it at that exact moment. Solo Q is a joke since everyone wants to shot call but in teams if you call for a fight or for dragon and 1 player hesitates because they think its a wrong move then you could lose that fight or objective easily . Also correct calls must be made, aka inhib>baron.

SpellFlinger1/16/2015, 5:10:02 PM1 votes

right on, all great advice/tips. thanks everyone.

rth21/16/2015, 9:53:17 PM1 votes

You mentioned putting together a 5's team so I assume you are looking for these answers when working on a pre-made team instead of Solo Queue. I am going to assume that you can communicate by talking instead of typing, if you can't, get some sort of voice communication.

Baller Shot Caller Anyone on your team can be the shot caller, regardless of role. Shot calling is less about role and more about having game knowledge, being able to judge situations based on team strengths, and there must be team cohesion. If the shot caller makes a call and nobody follows it, then you will never know if that call would have worked or not. The team has to trust the shot callers judgement.

That said, the shot caller should not be the only person providing information. Your team should be telling you things like "Flash is up", "Top no summs", "I am huge right now", etc... Shot callers are very good for having a default leader for when situations arise. Just took towers and half the team is wandering around? Shot caller give us your guidance. What is our plan leader? The enemy trying to pressure an objective? How do we react? What do we do? Tell us shot caller.

Also, record your games. It is easy for teams to get distracted and side tracked debating what play should have been made, what could have been done, etc... This all isn't really important during the game. If the enemy team got dragon then they got dragon. Figuring out the perfect play does not erase that fact. Plan accordingly. Helpful input on how to deal with the situation going forward is good, but discussing what micro play went wrong letting the enemy take dragon (or whatever is being debated) can be saved for the review. Gameplay reviews are a great time for everyone to be heard. This is also a good time to call out when bad shot calls were made. The important thing is that the team focus on the game and follow whoever they designate as shot caller. If the person has made a series of bad calls and isn't really good at shot calling then fine! You can figure this out in reviews and then a new shot caller that the team still trusts to follow can give it a try.

To push or not to push I have a general rule for bot lane. Generally I do this :

Let the ADC/Marksman control the wave
Let the support control the engages/aggression.

Your adc should be able to control the wave. They can just last hit, they can continuously auto attack to push, etc... You mention that your team is bronze/silver. If your adc cannot control the wave they need to learn how to in order to improve. Also, if your adc needs help pushing the wave (maybe they want to push and go back to buy) on voice comms they can just tell you to help them push. Solo queue they can also ping the turret so you know to hard push. Remember that if you do end up taking farm it is not a huge deal unless your adc says something like "I need all of these minions to get my (insert item X)". But the main point of pushing to go back is so that the wave will reset. Don't just steal the last hits from your adc, but the idea is to push the lane as fast as you can and get home. As you both improve you will be able to do this fast AND not miss farm while doing it. So in a pre-made, have the adc tell you when they need help pushing.

As for when to push, it really depends. You have to think about what pushing and wave control accomplish. A few basics: pushing forces the opponents under turret. This is usually done in the hopes that the enemy adc will miss lots of cs. This works really well at lower levels, but part of being an adc is learning how to last hit under turret. The other reason is so that your jungler can assist in diving the enemy under their turret. This is usually done by building up a large wave and then pushing fast to the enemy turret. This makes it hard for the opponents to fight back, as they will draw aggro from this huge minion wave. freezing Freezing a minion wave is locking the wave in a position so that the enemy wave has more creeps than your incoming wave, meaning it will kill your wave faster, meaning your wave will no longer push towards their turret. Generally you try to freeze the wave just outside of your turret so that you can safely farm the enemy wave. The downside to this is that if the enemy is stronger it is easy for the enemy to break the freeze and force the wave into your turret. This also makes you a potential dive target. zoning Zoning is done as a more controlled way to try and punish the enemy. Zoning an enemy means trying to keep them out of experience and farming range. Usually this is done by placing the support and adc between the minions and the enemy laners. This is generally done when you have a decent item or health advantage. The second advantage to this is that is gives you a good chance to attack the enemy if they try to compete for farm, giving you a chance to kill them without having to have the jungler come dive. The disadvantage is that this leaves you in a spot where you can be vulnerable to a gank, although the enemy lane should not be strong enough to contest you so you should only be in the position where you have to back off instead of getting killed in a gank.

These are very basics to wave control and laning, but they should give you (and your lanemate) a basis for knowing what to do with the wave based on how you want to combat your opponents.

Hope this makes sense / helps!