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Is extra HP on sorrka always harmful?

2HdJlAmDY1·4/13/2015, 2:40:53 PM·1 votes·1,204 views

I wanted to get general feedback from more skilled players on their thought of hp on Sorraka. Her heal costs 10% of her hp, while healing an amount based off of AP. Thus increased max HP causes her heal to cost more for the same healage, and makes it heal yourself with starfall afterwards. More HP means less healing and more time spent rehealing. For this reason intentional itemization for HP is detrimental, I think few would argue that.

However, what about unintentional HP gain? Nearly all items give HP, even if that's not your primary motive for the item. That HP makes your heals less efficient. However, if you never received any HP from any of your gear your HP total would be so low that an assassin would look at you as a nice, delicious XP sandwich and start feeding. There seems to be a balancing act then, when is extra HP costing so much that it's gimping your healing, and when is it a necessary evil to survive?

This isn't a purely theoretical question, I'm asking due to ruby crystals. Many of Sorrka useful items are built using a ruby crystal. At times I may go back and, after buying whatever other upgrades I need, I'm left with just over 400 HP and a ruby crystal being the next step towards whatever next big item I want to get. This leaves me with a bit of a quandary, do I buy an item knowing it's going to weaken my healing until my next back?

My options are:

  1. buy the crystal, enjoy less squeamishness, morn my lower healing

  2. buy nothing, save my gold, buy the crystal as part of a more comprehensive upgrade later

  3. buy something else with the gold so it doesn't go to waste, come back for the crystal next back when I ideally have enough money to buy it and it's upgrade?

  4. isn't always an options. I delay buying the ruby until I get all other low level upgrades for an item, which commits me towards that item. If I really want aegis of the legion's aura and I already bought my rejuiv bead and mantel I may not have room for another upgrade, or may be afraid it will prevent me from betting aegis next back, if I'm backing often.

So, what do other sorrka folks think? is the crystal an desirable upgrade by itself? does it depend on where you are in the game? I would imagine late game team fights the risk of being focused by multiple opponents, including a death wielding carry and evil sneaky assassins flanking your team makes the need for HP higher, and the easy of catching 2-4 people in a single star fall, which casts faster and has negligible mana cost, means HP should be welcome? Is this true in early game where mana is limited, thus limiting your self heals and team heals?

10 Comments

Drunk Rummate4/13/2015, 2:53:48 PM1 votes

I don't think it's terrible to build extra hp on raka. An Aegis for example is a really good item on her because it provides resistances and regeneration in addition to the hp. Spirit visage also isn't a terrible pickup despite the hp because it doubles the hp return on her Q. So if you're looking to build a ton of MR (perhaps versus a Xerath or Leblanc that keep trying to snipe you) then you have several options with HP that are good.

I don't think you should be building a RoA on soraka, but I don't think it's a bad idea to build Righteous Glory. The catalyst gives great sustain and the active is really useful for your team. And that frees your tanks up to build a little more defensive.

So no, I don't think building HP on soraka is necessarily bad. It has a weird interaction with your W, but more often than not I think the HP will help you rather than harm you. Especially if you're building items that have more use than simple HP.

As far as your original question regarding whether you should build a ruby and sit on it, I think it depends on the item. The ruby itself is going to help you in the short run, and you'll only see a noticeable difference if you stay out on the rift healing for a very long time. If you're building an Aegis then it's probably better to go null magic + rejuv bead before building the ruby crystal. In the case of a catalyst I would sooner take the sapphire over the ruby, but there's no harm in buying both if you can't get the full upgrade.

NorthernDruid4/13/2015, 4:23:10 PM1 votes

If you're left with 400 I'd think it's better to get an item 2139 rather than a Ruby Crystal.

In a way, I figure it all depends on what you're playing and how you're playing it.

You can build fairly tanky if you get Warmog's because of it's passive. But at the same time you need AP for your heals not to fall off.

The real situation where having lots of HP is gonna hurt you is in teamfights. The more AP you have the more bursty your heals become, while building tanky and forsaking AP (which is a necessity if you're getting any health as neither Liandry's, Rod of Ages or Rylai's make much sense on Soraka i think) might give you better siege potential given warmogs (good regen without hitting Starcalls, more max HP makes it harder for you to be instagibbable).

The real problem is getting an effective midway. You have three free item slots after gold item+sightstone+boots. And then you need something for mana regen and something for capping your CDR (depending on runes and masteries this can be not very much though). Now a Seraph's Embrace will make do for your mana regen (espeically if you go Coin for your gold item) and if you have 20% CDR from runes+masteries you only need 10% more (locket/spirit visage) and then you have one free slot for either more AP or Warmog's.

So going SE+SV+Warmog's is probably pretty viable. But you won't be keeping up during teamfights. In a nutshell, you'll be able to survive more (not as much more as you'd like, but it'll help) but you'll hurt your ability to actively heal both yourself and your teammates.

So basically.

Tanky for Sieges and extended roaming.

Non-tanky with AP stacking for fights.

Especially, going tanky will hurt your ability to keep your team healthy during extended fights, low AP will hurt your burst healing abilities and high HP will make it harder to get more heals. Warmog's helps with the long-term, but if you get hit once with a stray AoE the regen is too low to be of use.

In the end, I think you can build tanky and be succesful. But I don't think it's necessarily the answer to any situation, and I'm not sure how much it'll actually help your survivability.

I haven't actually tried building her tanky, but my gut instinct says you'll be better over long enough periods of time for your health regen (especially warmog's) to come into play, but worse in direct combat situations and will have significantly worse heals than if building squishy AP.

iluvalar4/13/2015, 6:26:25 PM1 votes

let's analyse it from the beginning.

First, you can't count on your initial HP pool for healing. As soon as you go under 70% of your health bar, you have to take another step back and cast your starcall from farther away. which would make you miss and lose all the benefit from that 30% hp. You need your hp pool to stay viable and keep your position. This mean that all your heals that you will be able to cast with come from outside sources; hp5, starcall, spellvamp, lifesteal, potion, other heals... None of those (beside warmog) scale with your total hp pool, so all of those sources of heal will scale down proportionnaly with your max hp.

Second is to figure how much that heal count for your total efficiency. When I look at my stats at the end of the game, I see that my heals are 3x higher then my dmg. Most of my impact in the game come from heals. And in a good game, I can cancel 3/5 of all the total dmg of the opponents. So obviously that help my team.

If you dmg for 30hp and heal for 120 during your life span of 100 seconds. You dealt a total of 150hp. If you buy a ruby that increase your life span by 10%, the dmg will increase to 33hp but the heals will stay the exact same at 120hp. You end up increasing your total efficiency by only 2.5%.

You pay a ruby for 400gp, but you only get for 100gp of benefits.

I have no definitive answer to your question, but at least you have a good metric to judge by now. If you REALLY need an object, buying a ruby is better then keeping your money, but probably worst then even buying a long sword (it would increase your non-healing potential by more the 10%). And , to make sure you get it, a long sword is bad lol.

BTW, the base hp5 of raka was nerfed to the ground, so buying a bead is useless (it take 9 minutes even at level 18 just to worth his price in potions).

Fashion Mage4/13/2015, 10:34:11 PM1 votes

Getting a bit of HP from certain items like Banner of Command, Spirit Visage, and/or Sightstone isn't really the end of the world, but items like Warmog's, RoA, and so on that provide a lot of HP should be avoided since you'll be seriously harming your healing potential.

The Chin4/14/2015, 12:04:35 AM1 votes

item 3512 item 3026 item 3110 best tanky items for raka

Drackolus4/14/2015, 5:43:23 AM1 votes

As a banana-unicorn main, I personally avoid health as much as possible. In fact, the only bonus health I get from runes, masteries, and items is my sighstone. And if I go back and only have enough for a ruby crystal on my first back, I just buy potions and pinks early and head back to lane without it. I tend to go for a more active defense by WARDING (extremely important no matter who or what you're playing), item 3069, and item 3023. Also, get really really good at starcalls and zoning with your equinox. I also run summoner 7 instead of summoner 3, but that may or may not be a good idea.

M4nTiCoR34/14/2015, 12:23:00 PM1 votes

The unequivocal answer to this is NO! I think people make too much of the detrimental effects HP have on her kit. As many others have pointed out, you need to stop looking at this stat in a vacuum.

As a support, itemization will largely br dictated by the composition of both your team and your enemies team. Worry less about whether an item has HP and more about what it will allow you to bring to the table as a whole.

Banner of command is a perfect example of an item that dictates consideration despite its HP gain. Against the right enemy composition it can be a game changer with the Aura buff and Active for pushing And lane control.

The fact of the matter is that if you max out on defensive stats other than HP, you are still going to pop like a grape in combat late game If you get caught out. Position is critical with many supports and raka is no dofferent. She needs to be in similar position to an ADC for most of the fight.

Thr only HP item that is really mared in debate is Warmogs. The regen seems like a natural fit for her self depleting health, but the item offers nothing else to her kit or team. Her primary source of healing g needs to come from getting g good at landing Qs. In that respect, Spirit Visage is a better choice adding solid Hp5 boosts, and CDR, and MR. Even this is questionable against a team that don't have multiple mage class heros.

In my experience if you want non combat sustain, a better option than both of those choices is to go some combination of the following...

HPp5 Seals HPp5 Quints All regen buffs in Defensive mastery Elixir, Buscit, mana regen buffs in Support mastery Buy Elixir and buscits early and often TEAR OF THE GODDESS

This will give you lots of sustain at the cost of being more fragile to burst damage. However with safe play and a good farming ADC, you can stay in lane for a very very long time with little worry of ever being low on mana or health. Also, if you do decide to go tear into Seraph...your mana pool also grants HPp5 with the mastery and you eventually gain a shield for those pesky assassin dives. Items like Frozen Heart also gain more value due to the synergy with mana granting both HPp5 and AP.

Good luck, and may you make all your allies Horny and your enemies fearing the banana.