Yesterday I was watching certain Master/Challenger playing top lane. He lost trade against his opponent, his jungle came to help and took down tower after a (second?) gank.
But the top lane doesn't want the tower to be taken down early, he wants to farm.
My question is: Since he lost trade against his opponent, wouldn't it be better for him to group rather than farm? Is his jungle doing it right or wrong?
Short answer: Grouping when behind is the shortest way to losing your Nexus.
Long answer: Depending whenever you can be of any use when behind (e.g. Nautilus) or not (e.g. Master Yi). You can group in the first case and should focus on farming in the second case. In both cases it's not advisable to abandon farming.
On the side note I can't exactly understand what your post is about.
Taking the turret does a few things:
The disadvantages includes:
Whether or not the turret being taken early ends up being positive overall depends on the match up(s). Different match ups have different factors to be taken into consideration such as champion power spikes. For example, Nasus gets stomps by just about anybody and everybody pre9. Once he reaches level9 with 150stacks or so, he can start trading effectively in his favor if he kept relatively even. You also have to take into consideration build paths because some champions power spikes are based more on items than on raw stats and champion skill levels. If Nasus was building tank, he could help make plays elsewhere on the map with tower dives for his allies using his tankiness. However, all this is based on coordination. The streamer probably didn't trust other people and was only focus on himself (I never liked watching these streams because theres really nothing to gain from it other than giving the selfish person more viewer revenue). Meaning he doesn't believe his Jungler will help him or that he can't help other lanes yet as he hasn't reached his powerspike. Many different things have to be taken into consideration, but ultimately the potential gains outweigh the possible setbacks.
Whenever you group together, you lose out on collective gold and xp. Grouping should only be done if something offsets this gold and xp loss, such as killing an enemy or securing an objective. Otherwise, if you're grouping for the sake of grouping, you're losing out.
Taking the tower early frees up the enemy top laner to roam a bit more, since the next tower takes a shorter time to get to with a recall if you intend to push. If you freeze the lane, you provide no pressure on the enemy laner to defend it, freeing him up to secure objectives. The global gold is nice for your team, but no pressure is no pressure.
Since this streamer wanted to farm, I can infer that an early tower would either force him to push lane (and fall farther ahead if he gets ganked or caught out) or freeze lane (which would provide no pressure on the enemy). Not taking tower would allow him to farm safely while still providing pressure at the enemy tower. Now you said trade, so I assumed he didn't die because you didn't clarify that. If he can farm better than enemy, it doesn't matter if he lost the early trades if his gold income is higher.
I think the reason he didn't want the tower destroyed would have to do with minion wave pressure. He could push out a little bit and be safe in knowing that the tower would destroy his allied minions if he pushed too far/hard, without his being too far away from his own tower. With the enemy tower gone, he would have to push out farther and farther to get minion kills which would lead for more chances of him getting caught out when already behind. All in all, the guy was looking for safety I would guess. Now is the right choice. there isn't one. The most important thing is to be able to make choices as a team and to communicate. I'm guessing the streamer didn't ping the jungle to back off, or type anything into the chat?
well it the taking the tower can be a good thing in a case where you are losing trades because the local will help. you can push your wave out but not too tower but far enough it frees you up to make moves around the map, it forces the other top lanner to over extend and most top lanners do not buy that many wards. So, it makes the lane more gankable and opens up the enemies top side jungle for counter jungling safer anyway and if you are worried about farming or not over extending most of the most junglers will be fine giving up gromp to their top lanner or golems. and you can force the enemy top laner to wave clear while team does dragon, so the gold will be there. But the counter side it will make you more gankable without deep wards because the farther you are pushed the more time you need to get back to tower. and if they can freeze the lane well you can lose out on alot of farm but they can lose map pressure with him freezing but if it is too early they can freeze and without the power to make moves around the map you are kinda useless if you do not have the deep wards and can end up feeding
im not sure, but i find it annoying when a guy freezes lane and refuses to go take the enemy tower because then the enemy will usually roam and and then in mid i get like 3-4 man ganked or something. So i think the jungler should just take the tower honestly. one less objective to worry about later but that is just my opinion
but the top lane doesn't want the tower to be taken down early, he wants to farm.
People want the towers to stay up to long. I am not sure what time the tower went down but if it was post 13 minutes its should be down. The top laner can still farm if his tower is still up, but now it the opposing laner has to over extend to farm safely. It actually promotes a better lane farm lane if you understand minion manipulation.
If the enemy laner is ahead but his tower is down, it makes it harder for him to stay in that lane and continue to feed off you which will either force him to roam or make him easy to re-gank. if you can set up a freeze and try not to over extend it'll make it a little easier for you to try and catch up with farm, just backing or roaming when the lane is too pushed to farm safely.
In regards to whether this is a good idea or not depends a lot on the matchup as well as teamcomp and the general state of other lanes.
Dont go steal all your teammates farm, if that's what you're asking.
If you can group and get a turret quickly then by all means, take the objective, but don't just abandon your lane.
If you can get a teleport or roam off and get a quick kill or assist somewhere then by all means, do it, but don't just abandon your lane.
You can sacrifice your turret if you're trading it for heavy pressure elsewhere (ex: double kill bot + drag or tower) but if you just let your tower go down for free, that's a lot of global gold you're giving up and it's also a fed opponent who's going to start roaming.
If you do sacrifice your turret in a trade, you need to keep your wave as pushed as possible so that your fed/winning lane opponent can't afford to roam often without severe losses in CS or his turret as well. Simply freezing to "catch up" is rarely the correct decision to make.
