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Ori Support Hate

Vekkna·6/3/2015, 7:44:02 PM·6 votes·2,202 views

I started playing Ori support not that long ago. Since then I've gotten her to about Mastery 4. It's super fun and also extremely frustrating. I need some advice.

Why do people think it's a troll pick?
From what I understand, her E is tied with Janna for the strongest shield usable on allies, but its mana cost stays the same at every rank which gives Ori far more defensive sustain in lane. Also, leaving the ball on your ADC most of the time gives them a very substantial early Armor/MR boost that allows them to win virtually all 1 v 1 trades. Also with the ball, you can W to speed your ADC to get kills, kite, juke, or escape while also slowing attackers and chasers. You can E R W on your jg to secure ganks. Am I understanding the Ori support role correctly or am I missing something?
Ori support seems VERY heavily tied to the skill of your ADC. When I get a decent and cooperative ADC, we do exceptionally well in lane and beyond. If not, I feel pretty useless until I can support the tank or an assassin in team fights. Should I only pick Ori support as bot duo or team games because of this?
My win rate on Ori is pretty atrocious, but my individual performance (as support) is better than any other champ I've played. I've gotten more As and Ss on her than on everyone else combined, so should I interpret the hellish win rate to bad luck, bad solo queue champ, or because my pick/play screwed our team?

I'm open to any constructive advice as Ori support is the most fun I've had in League. Unfortunately, I get a lot of dodgers and flaming from people who don't seem to understand what a utility support does or why I'm not throwing the ball around everywhere. I'd like to keep playing her, but I'll stick to normals if it's truly a detriment to my 4 teammates.

30 Comments

Sona Ping6/3/2015, 8:35:03 PM4 votes

"1) Why do people think it's a troll pick?" It's different. Therefore, it's bad. Believe it or not, there was a time where you would get yelled at for picking Annie Support; a few months ago I played a game where I was flamed by a couple of fools because "we're losing because you took a support mid lane". It's just one of those things about playing a game online with others.

"3)" That sort of experience isn't uncommon, regardless of champion choice.

"4) ... I've gotten more As and Ss on her than on everyone else combined" I don't know what you are asking here. But as you are having fun, just keep playing with Orianna. I say play normals and have fun, don't worry about ranked.

Orbv6/8/2015, 3:39:24 PM2 votes

{quoted}

Why do people think it's a troll pick?

I main Karma as both a Mid and Support, so I understand. When I pick her support I get "can you choose a tank or someone with CC?". I proceed to say "I main Karma, she's my best champion right now. If you'd like me to pick a champion I have but cannot use, don't expect me to to properly help the team at all and possibly cost us the game." It typically ends the banter.

As for answering the question, I used to use Orianna support 2 years ago, but I stopped based on my own preference that she relies too heavily on the ADC, her poke is not as good as Karma/Lulu/Soraka/Sona/Nami/Zyra, auto range is a bit too short to safe poke without abilities, and she can't engage like Sona/Thresh/Leona/Blitzcrank/Mao'Kai/Galio can.

BUT, if you are good at using her, I don't see why it would be a bad decision. I think she is better than Janna in that she has actual damage, and her shield buffs survive the duration of her shield, Janna's do not.

From what I understand, her E is tied with Janna for the strongest shield usable on allies, but its mana cost stays the same at every rank which gives Ori far more defensive sustain in lane. Also, leaving the ball on your ADC most of the time gives them a very substantial early Armor/MR boost that allows them to win virtually all 1 v 1 trades. Also with the ball, you can W to speed your ADC to get kills, kite, juke, or escape while also slowing attackers and chasers. You can E R W on your jg to secure ganks. Am I understanding the Ori support role correctly or am I missing something?

That sounds about right. I think Karma does what she does better, with the two exceptions of semi-warding and fight initiation.

Ori support seems VERY heavily tied to the skill of your ADC. When I get a decent and cooperative ADC, we do exceptionally well in lane and beyond. If not, I feel pretty useless until I can support the tank or an assassin in team fights. Should I only pick Ori support as bot duo or team games because of this?

I stick to using Karma for certain matchups (leona, thresh, sona, soraka, morgana) but I WILL NOT pick her against (nami, braum, janna, taric, alistar, blitzcrank). You need to know your losing battles. Orianna would not do well vs Nami, or Braum (who can stop her ball), or even Karma whose EW would still catch Ori's EW.

My win rate on Ori is pretty atrocious, but my individual performance (as support) is better than any other champ I've played. I've gotten more As and Ss on her than on everyone else combined, so should I interpret the hellish win rate to bad luck, bad solo queue champ, or because my pick/play screwed our team?

I would ignore individual performance, I constantly get A's because most Karma's are apparently really bad. The only ratios I look at are my ADC's and Jungler's. If they don't have kills, I feel like I haven't done my job.

EDIT: On a side note, you shouldn't use Support Lux unless you have a CC ADC (jinx, ashe, cait, urgot). Her base damages are really bad, her mana costs are among the highest of any mage, and her cooldowns are really long, minus her ultimate. If you miss anything, you are really out of luck for a long time.

Krigjer6/3/2015, 8:36:34 PM1 votes

I've discovered that people tend to get upset if you play anything that isn't Thresh, Leona and Morgana. Or Annie, if you absolutely want to go ap mage support.

I think people call it a troll pick because they think any damage-dealing support is going to take cs/all the kills. When I first started playing Lux support, people told me constantly 'no don't Lux, you'll take all the farm!' She's an incredibly strong support IMO. Continue to play her in any team composition you feel is best. If you have a game where you think 'Jeez, I should have picked Thresh into this', just remember that hindsight is better than foresight. (Orianna support is both fun and brutal when you pick it with a Malph or Sejuani on your team. Ball delivery system, your package has arrived! Personally, I wouldn't pick her if our team didn't have a super hard engage, even a Xin Zhao, but that's me)

I'm over here proving Bard and Galio are strong support picks. I'm done catering my champion choice to what my teammates want or don't want.

dinkaroo6/3/2015, 8:46:03 PM1 votes

I think (assuming Orianna performs well) people don't like when others play difficult champions for support. I've been flamed for playing Bard just because barely anyone knows how to play him which makes people think he's bad. It's most likely that. It could also be that when choosing a support, barely anyone evaluates the champion based on its mechanics, its work, howorth when working with another champion conrcontributes to the team, etc. Instead they judge it by things like what lane the champion generally takes, what kind off cc they have, or something that really doesn't matter much.

For your questions:

Usually people think anything that's non-meta is troll.
I dont think the range on the W is large enough to be used as a speed boost for your allies, but as a slow it's fine because it will take an enemy longer to leave the range of it than for an ally.
Generally, try not to stick to only one champion for any lane. Just try to vary your selection. I think Orianna would have some champs she works inseinsanely well with, but some not so much.
If your ADC doesn't cooperate with you, it's their fault. If they do cooperate, but you do poorly, it's your fault.

Gigablitz6/3/2015, 9:40:00 PM1 votes

I think Ori sup is a thing, tbh.

She just needs to be built appropriately: She needs a strong shield (so, AP), CDR, mana regeneration. She also needs to build cheap. So support AP items work good on her.

I think a good core build, besides boots, would be Frostfang, Sightstone, Mikaels AND/OR Ardent Censer, if you're gonna focus on staying back and protect your carry or a tankier build if you're gonna soak up damage in the front of the fight. Since you're gonna be utility, you've gotta maximise your utility contribution to the team :)

EDIT: Runewise, you don't need damage. Since you're gonna be supporting, you've gotta build in order to take trades favorably early and damage late. This means that you should use any mixture of armor, mr, and one of flatHP,scalingHP or perhaps HP5 (not preffered though) runes to maximize your efficiency -both in lane, and late-. Perhaps you should consider MS quints too among those options

LordGeovanni6/4/2015, 12:43:15 AM1 votes

cause adcs and other carries dont like 'supports' who cant potentially take their kills

SelflessTeammate6/4/2015, 12:55:24 AM1 votes

Orianna support was the first champ I got to level 5 mastery in a few days. It was astonishingly easy. She's my ranked support of choice right now, actually in front of Leona.

Her E makes anyone (including herself if she's trading) incredibly tanky. With the new Ardent Censer, she can spam her E and W to give people massive buffs to armor, MR, attack speed, and magic damage. Her passive makes her poking ability astonishing, and is excellent for tons of added bonus damage if they dive your adc after you toss the ball on them for the shield, armor, and MR. Throw a Talisman on her (with that wonderful new 20% cdr for a flat 30 sec cd) and she becomes just lunacy.

And her ability to very quickly roam--with her near-constant speed boosts and shields--and assist any lane is excellent.

I always max E first. It's just too good for when you or your adc (or any target of choice, it has a very short base cd so you can literally toss it around generously) is in danger. The shield mixed with the high defense/MR boost, preferably with the W speed boost, is just wonderful.

Her ult is a luxury (obviously a damned good one if you can initiate well with it), if you can land it right (easier said than done if there's no element of surprise and they're aware of it), but it's not really key to her support kit. Her E and W are the real bread and butter of her supporting ability.

I honestly have no clue why no one else does it. People scream at me that it's a troll pick, and, um, they're wrong. She's stupid-good as a support. She easily survives Leona/Blitz/Thresh grabs and gets away, even if ignited. She's a hidden gem that for whatever reason isn't considered even a casually-meta support.

I just wish she had a little visual tweak to make her ball larger when she gets the Iron Elixir. It does while on her, and the AoE increases appropriately while off her, but it doesn't stay visually larger if she tosses it, and it shrinks (at least, with the Winter Wonder skin I use). Kinda lame, but also a little besides the point.

You can play with the order as you wish, but her key items for me are item 3069 item 2049 and item 3504 . You'll almost definitely want item 3174 so she (quite literally) becomes an assist-farming machine, and the last choice is up to preference, and what's needed thus far.

Lugg6/4/2015, 1:20:40 AM1 votes

This is something that puzzles me as well. Ori is one of the best zoners in the game, The amount of CS she can deny the enemy ADC is huge unless the ADC is willing to get harassed down enough for an all in.

Nox Fleuret6/4/2015, 3:03:43 PM1 votes

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Ih8ucuzurtoxic6/4/2015, 4:18:09 PM1 votes

Support as a role is to boost the performance of your team, make sure your ADC does NOT die, and remain at the same xp and gold level as the rest of your team without needing a high cs.

That's about it. I personally enjoy support. I think it's challenging to be in charge of helping your team win rather than focus the champ I'm playing and how much I can snowball (even if that's fun too and I'm good at either).

That being said, I've used all sorts of champs as support. The biggest issue I find with some "non" support type champions is their ability to peel. Some that I've played like Yi or Yasou are very centered around whether you can burst down someone chasing your adc before they can kill them. This is risky and if your adc makes a wrong move it can be costly. So yes, duoing helps.

As for Oriana, I do like her as support. As you mention, she has a kit that would lend itself toward this and then can still do a lot of damage as a secondary mage. And I prefer her as support than as a mid laner because her mid lane match ups are ALL very very very difficult and exacerbated by Oriana's fairly high skill cap in mid lane.

As with any champ, if it works for you and your play style and you're not a burden to the team, you can play that champ as the role you want to play. There's no "right" or "wrong" way to really play a champ if built correctly and played in a manner that fits the role. I've seen jungle jayce work (Instalok - Elo Hell) and seen top and yi support and even... teemo... friggin... adc.... If you can pull it off... to the victor go the spoils.

There's a great quote about sports. "The stands are filled with critics. They're critical because they never fail because they've never truly tried. The field holds those few people who attempt the impossible, the doers. Those who tried and can fail because over and over they attempt to succeed."

Good lesson in sports, esports and life.

Drunk Rummate6/8/2015, 3:15:54 PM1 votes

Orianna has low base damage. She's one of the most farm + xp reliant champions in the game with most of her CC tied into her ultimate.

Take a moment to compare her to Janna and you'll see why she's considered a troll support and extremely inferior:

Base shield on Janna is the exact same as Orianna's, but Janna's has better scaling and grants AD instead of a tiny bit of armor/MR.

Janna has a slow on her W, grants movement speed passively, a knockup on her Q, and a knockback + heal on her R. That's 3 forms of CC, a heal, and a passive buff.

Orianna has a slow on her W and a displacement CC with her R. That's 2 forms of CC.

As a support it's unlikely that you're doing game-changing amounts of damage unless you pick a damage oriented support (Annie, Brand, Zyra). Orianna is really farm reliant to do reasonable amounts of damage, so she would be a shield/CC support class who is miserably outclassed by any other support with the same skillset.

You like Orianna support? Pick Janna, Karma, or Lulu instead and improve your winrate while maintaining a very similar playstyle.

TimothyJ2226/3/2015, 7:55:06 PM1 votes

Umm... I have no answers for you. I haven't tried it, but really want to now as I love playing Ori, but have more success mid with other mages. Her Shield and her AA passive seem to make her a pretty ideal poke support. Plus the shield on a tank jg during a gank and ult... gg bot lane.

TouchpadExpert6/8/2015, 9:12:43 PM1 votes

Orianna isn't bad. There's worse choices. She's just suboptimal because her poke relies on throwing her ball through minion waves which will push lanes and invite the enemy jungler to gank more often. She also has no hard CC prior to 6. Her auto attacks will add up over time though, so there is that. Laning phase is harder but after that she's actually not that bad. Her ult gives your team a pretty reliable hard engage and work great with any AOE damage output teams.

JAGMAG6/3/2015, 7:58:43 PM1 votes

i personally dont mind it as an adc but keep in mind you need to build utility and also it might not be good for every comp an ori support with a yas mid is amazing but if your not building her full ap your not going to be doing much damage or shielding for much if you do build her full ap thou you wont provide the utility the team needs out of a support like vision control. another problem is that with non meta supports is allot of adcs just dont know what to do with it and how to work around her kit in lane if you could find and adc duo who you trust and trust you then your win rate would probably go up if your as good at her as you claim