Let's Talk about Lane Taxing

I was just wondering what your thoughts are on lane taxing? These are what I consider to be appropriate. When you gank my lane...

• Did you get the kill? No tax, please.
• Did I get the kill? The whole wave is yours.
• Did I gain an advantage (burn their summoners, do significant amounts of damage)? Half the wave is yours.
• Did I also burn summoners/get damaged? No tax, please.

tl;dr, the better the gank went, the more tax you're allowed to take.

I believe that junglers, when they make a successful gank, should tax as per above. Because I want them to take that advantage, get fed, and snowball other lanes, too. It's just a question of how much is appropriate.

The fact that you broke down the concept of "lane taxing" into such specific yet generic terms tells me you are already looking at it the wrong way.

There should be no specific rules of when the jungle can or cannot take minions while cruising through a lane. If a jungler needs a little more gold to get an item before back or to catch up then they should take it, because that will overall benefit the team more.

The short of it is you have to trust your jungler to take minions when they think they need to and roll with it. You can't just subject them to generic rules and expect them to abide by them. Keep in mind your jungler is most likely trying to win just as hard as you are, and is taking those minions for the goal of winning, rather than screwing you out of some gold.

If you claim you are losing your lane due to the amount of gold from one wave of minions, chances are you have more serious problems you are covering up for.

I like this. Nothing more annoying than having your jungler gank, take the kill from you, and then get angry when you try to shoo him off with pings when he starts taking minions.

Dude, you already got the gold from the kill. GTFO. And no, I don't want the lane pushed either. The enemy jungler has been up my ass all game.

If you kill or make top lane recall, then as jungler I'm going to push that shiit like no other and deny him gold exp.

That's it.

Malphite comes in to gank. He is unable to pursue the fleeing Teemo, having used Unstoppable Force mid a minute earlier, while Teemo has tier-2 boots, a point in Move Quick, and a shroomfield.

MALPHITE: >>> Oh well. presses E

EDIT: As a jungler who plays this Malphite on a regular basis, thanks for the tip!

Did I also burn summoners/get damaged? No tax, please.

To me, if the enemy bases and my laner needs/wants to base, too, I'll help them push the wave in

I hate junglers that do a shit gank, no kills or summoners, and then try to take cs lol.

No matter what happens after i gank a lane, i just pretend that I'm Obama and tax the fuck out of it :)

As a jungler: I don't take taxes. I read the situation. Can we break this tower, or seriously wound it, because of my gank? Let's clear this wave and push it down. Did I force a level 4 back and burned a summoner? No, I'm going to let you keep your lane frozen - you have every advantage right now. Did you die in the gank for whatever reason? I'm going to keep your lane frozen, if I can.

I don't take a 'lane tax'. I can farm my jungle just fine. My primary goal as a jungler is to get the lanes snowballing. But I plays tanks and initiators, primarily - I'm not going to close kills very much in the first place, and my items are generally cheaper. In almost every case, me taking minions from a carry is just bad for the game.

That being said, there's shouldn't really be rules or guidelines. It should always be a read of the scenario, the game you're in, the champs that are on your team and theirs, etc. It's the same idea as item building - Sure, spirit Visage may be outstanding for Maokai, but sometimes you need to rush RoA or Iceborn. You really can't apply rules like this because every game is going to be different.

That being said, I'm not a fan of 'taxing' as a jungler.

tl;dr, the better the gank went, the more tax you should take.

I disagree with this. Part of the reason for the tax is that a failed gank costs the jungler more than it costs you. They want that tax to balance their losses just like you do.

I have too many cases where I personally want to clear the minion wave to get more farm specifically as an ADC or a really farm-centered champion like Anivia, Ziggs, or Cassiopeia, but the jungler ends up not really doing much at all when they gank, then tax the entire wave...The sort of thing happens a lot like "Really, Lee, did you honestly need all that farm? You do realize you fall off late-game, right?" When he does next to nothing to even touch the enemy and then procedes to take my entire wave just because he can, that's really playing selfishly. Too many people I think take the farm "just because they can" not weighing whether or not it is good for the team or not. I also think taxing depends on the lane match-ups. If you are in an unfavorable lane match-up you want to get as fed as possible to try and shut down the other enemy by itemizing faster than they do. If your jungler realizes this, then they SHOULD do their best to hand you the kills and let you farm up without taxing the lane at all.

I feel like burning your own summoners during a gank is actually more dependent on how than you use your summoners during the gank.

If the laner uses summoners to set up the gank, and the gank is successful, then I think it is fine to tax the lane because you chose to use your summoners for the gank, and you were not forced to use it defensively.

For example, if I'm playing Annie in the mid lane, and I flash+Tibbers to set up the gank, and we get an advantage, even if it was a kill, then yes, I will still let the jungler tax the lane. In that case, letting the jungler tax is perfectly reasonable.

idk about taxing /per se/ but when my laner backs, I shove their lane to the enemy tower as phoenix udyr every time to reset it and deny the enemy their farm..

i only tax when i shove the wave, and i only do that really early on and only take 2-3 creeps.

I usually take 2-3 minions. If I got the kill, I take nothing. If I took summoners, I take about 4. If you die, I will push the lane as quick as I can and make them miss as much farm as I possibly can.

If I gank the lane, and you be a little bit** about it, I will literally take 2 waves or more depending on how much you have irritated me.

All I ask is that if the jungler gets the kill to please let me get most of the CS. If nothing was achieved from the gank, then don't tax me without asking (you need exp for a level, you're about to back and you need gold for an item).

TBH I used to not understand the concept of lane taxing. If you pulled off a successful gank, wouldn't you already have gold from the assist/kill that you got? Unless it's for purposes like helping the laner take the enemy tower, which is perfectly fine.

Most of my ganks are none or one minion taxing. "Welp I got rid of them for you, good luck and I'm smiting something on the way out." That is how it goes most of the time. Then you have the annoying people who either complain about you not ganking enough, the people who ping spam you for pushing to the tower to get some good damage on it, or the absolute worst, the people who sit there and farm during a gank.

It's the strangest thing, Every time one of the above happens I always seem to have my taxing sack on hand. Two or three waves usually gets the point across. In the most extreme cases I'm not leaving your lane until it's pushed up to their inhib turret. It sucks but the laner can't be trusted to get anything done.

Its funny because some games you can't even hold a lane for someone. Literally got yelled at a nasus for holding a lane and freezing it by last hitting minions. He kept yelling " GET OFF MY FARM STAPH TAKING IT *****" even though he was at base. Like im REALLLLYYY going to let the gold just slip away.

Often times as a jungler people think im taking, but lanes don't know how to shove the lane or push when the enemys dead after a successful gank, or how to proxy the next wave to put them further behind and get damage on the tower.

I usually don't tax unless its in situations where its a fast shove, and even then i just spam abilities to shove and proxy and share it(if he's still here.)

Ill go and shove mid too when mids roaming and the cs is just sitting there as well

So let me get this straight :

A member of your team, has to pick a crappy summoner spell (to be able to jungle early and secure objectives), has to build awful jungling items (see their cost efficiency and compare with other lane rushed items that if are relevant out of the jungle are straight foward nerferd [ old SOtAG)), that are only relevant to the early game (except flare), since anyone during mid/late game can clear camps with ease, has a weak stream of money (hey we have to balance it so the lanes won't get bullied and the early ganker jungler skyrock because of the ganks!) , has to gush on potions (shaco and other junglers), gives the team buffs, don't have ANY defense (towers right behind you? nope) if being counterjungled (just his team) and you're BITCH*NG about some lane creeps?

Really?

Put yourself in the jungler's shoes before you complain about them.

There is no thing as overtaxing (except when the jungler is trolling you). Whenever the oposite laner is killed you have gold for the assist/kill, you have about 1 or 2 waves of no harass free CS and exp advantage. If the gank is goes even, no one died, you have the free poke/damage that the jungle provided. Almost every time the jungle ganks you gain some of benefit. It's kind of hard the jungler ravage the whole creep wave in early game.

If you only consider tax a matter of gold/reward for a good job, you should give it to your jungler.

Tax in most cases isn't about the gold (as I already explained, if you cared about the gold, you wouldn't jungle in first place) .It is about the lane pushing/freezing and the matchup.

In a lane that my team is playing nasus, I rarely tax because that means pushing and putting him in a dangerous situation that hurts the whole team. Same as mordekaiser, veigar, non mobile champs.

If you need to push or get some early advantage/ rotate to another lane, pushing and taxing is a must.

There is no consensus. Top lane will always be "Dude you're hurting my gold income by taxing!" (sometimes his cs is 60%) , and jungle will always be "I still need your CS, lost time camping your lane) , unless it's a feral flare power farmer. Then the QQ is reversed.

I consider it based on appropriate strategy, not success.

If the enemy is zoned, recalling, or dead, I will take some CS, push the lane, and leave to continue my job. Everyone wins.

If I failed the gank, I just leave and take what little CS I can grab on the way. If they're backing from the lost lane anyways, I'll stick around and not let them take the tower.

People become livid when it comes to other taking "their" CS. I've had people yell at me to stop taking CS and leave the lane, only for them to immediately die afterwards because I was doing it to pressure the enemy and give them a chance to recall. Someone coming mid-lane to take the tower will push, but some mid-laners scream and shout for them to stop. Even a support taking CS completely out of range of the ADC could get exclamation marks all over their screen and a death threat to boot.

It's in fact a (bad) habit of mine to forget about taxing entirely. When you're putting on pressure non-stop, it takes its toll.

it's not so cut and dry as you make it seem.

if you guys get the kill, regardless of who gets the gold for it, you want your jungler to help you hard shove the wave into turret. this lets the wave reset and gives you time to recall so that you can snowball your gold and experience advantage that his gank gave you, and so that you're at 100% hp and potions when your opponent returns to lane.

if you don't get the kill but you get a summoner and the wave is pushing (IE can't be frozen) then same as above, you want to hard shove it so that it resets and your lane opponent can't just farm under turret. this gives your jungler the opportunity to return for a kill later, or stick around and snag it, or at a minimum it lets you deny your opponent farm.

3rd case is if you don't get the kill, but you get your opponent low enough for a dive. you want to shove the wave hard enough that you can threaten to dive your opponent if he sticks around, and if he doesnt you get a ton of turret damage or you get the turret kill.

I read through a lot of comments and it seems no one does what I do... Not sure if that's good or bad.

I'll lead by saying I play hecarim jungle. Let's say I gank top. Regardless of kill/recall, I'll push Lane. I don't tax though, don't take any cs intentionally (but still leach xp, it's more total xp when shared anyways). I literally aoe damage the melee minions and let laner take the last hits while I move to aoe the casters. I'll occasionally end up taking 1 caster just because we're pushing to tower as fast as possible. I figure I don't need the gold (hecarim can have one of the most expensive builds in the game, but can also be built quite cheaply, sub iceborn gauntlet for trinity force, frozen heart instead of randuins, etc...).

Of course I'll always take farm if laner is at base, all of the scenario specific stuff. Basically if the laner starts attacking minions to push the wave I'll help them push, if they're freezing I'll leave and jungle. In general I try to just damage most creeps and let you take the gold, although I'll grab last hits if I see you're more than 10% cs off the cs leader, or if the whole map is sucking at cs (I've literally played games where I had 40 more cs than anyone else on the map as hecarim jungle...). I don't care how much you need cs, 6 last hits for me is better than 3 for you any day.

Think about it as if you were even or losing in lane with who you were vsing. The jungler comes into lane gets the kill but you get an assist. He got you an assist when there was a decent chance you would not have gotten a kill by yourself. In that case the jungler takes tax because he just took the time out of jungling to gank your lane for the chance of putting the two of you ahead in the game. It would be the same if he counter ganked as well and got both kills. He should still take your lane at least a small amount.