Yet Another "How To Elevate ELO...?" Question...

Darko Doakes·May 4, 2015·1 votes·1,211 views

So I've been playing about a year now, I know, I arrived late to the party. I introduced one of my cousins to the game around the same time, & we play most days of the week. We have some bad days sure, but generally, & definitely this is true for him, we play smart, we ward well, we don't move without vision etc etc etc... But we are stuck in the abyss of ELO hell... Arguably we haven't dropped in rank, but we ain't rising either.

We consistently have games where we play well, but someone keeps pushing their lane too far & gets ganked, then starts to blame their jungler for camping, & our jungler for not ganking more regularly, then they flame etc etc etc... & then when team fights occur, my cousin & I are the only ones not focusing on the tanks. You get the idea.

So... My question is this... Which two champions could my cousin & I take to more easily allow us to control the outcome of games & just win games on our own?

Obviously we are not going to get the lane we want every time, & people will counter, & the logical thing to do is to just duo bottom, but duo bottom only works if everyone else plays smart. So we are thinking that Top & Jungle would be a good place to start

Apropos Jungle, we are thinking that AP Tank Junglers would be best, Amumu, Sejuani, maybe even Nautilus are the ones that we think would be best purely for their crowd control.

Top Lane, so far my cousin is saying he's confident with Vladamir, as farming is easy & he gets tank also, & Cho'Gath for similar reasons. I mentioned Shyvana, also easy to farm with, definitely gets tank, lack of CC though, but the tank.

Anyone who has further insight/suggestions & constructive criticism, or has carried themselves from ELO Hell to ELO Paradise please feel free to enlighten us. My apologies for the long post.

19 Comments

RenailleMay 4, 20152 votes

We consistently have games where we play well,

Then you will rise.

but someone keeps pushing their lane too far & gets ganked, then starts to blame their jungler for camping, & our jungler for not ganking more regularly, then they flame etc etc etc... &

If you play consistantly good, the other team is more likely to get players like this.

then when team fights occur, my cousin & I are the only ones not focusing on the tanks. You get the idea.

If you think an ADC should dive past the enemy tank line in order to not focus the tanks, you deserve to be where you are. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQzB0HDstLY

Darko DoakesMay 8, 20151 votes

The video you posted isn't relevant. You've posted a video which isn't really even a team fight. The ADC in that video isn't anywhere near anyone else. They are way behind the tanks. I'm talking about team fights.

Maybe I should have been clearer on what I'm defining as a team fight, but essentially it comes down to this, when there is a choice between full health ADC & full health tank... Why focus the tank?

The video you posted isn't giving that demonstration.

RenailleMay 8, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darko Doakes,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=Yq9gTeBI,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-05-08T20:48:24.800+0000)

they are way behind the tanks. I'm talking about team fights.

Which is the proper way to team fight.

when there is a choice between full health ADC & full health tank... Why focus the tank?

That is only a choice in b5.

Darko DoakesMay 9, 20151 votes

It's like you were put here just to disagree with the people you communicate with... So I will just say, thanks for your productive input, it's greatly appreciated.

sbsp13668May 11, 20151 votes

It's like you were put here just to disagree with the people you communicate with... So I will just say, thanks for your productive input, it's greatly appreciated.

The hell? You ask for advice, then you toss the advice you're given back into the faces of those who give it to you?! If you're as good at this game as you think you are, then you wouldn't be stuck in "ELO hell".

If you are playing ADC and you dive past the enemy front line to their back line in some misguided attempted to kill the enemy ADC, then you are out of position. The enemy front line only needs to turn around to reach you while their ADC gets free shots on you too; congrats you've surrounded yourself with enemy players, and you are now dead. Look up proper ADC positioning on YouTube and get told this a good twenty times or so. And, I'm not saying do it because the majority of players do it, I'm saying listen to the explanation given and try to open your mind enough to understand it.

MonkeyDSpikeMay 16, 20151 votes

It can be tough trying to rank up, you just need to find a champion you're confident with in every role. If you're playing jungle then try the assassin role over the tank role some times, tanks can be very good and are going to be better as you rank up and get better teammates, but when you're in the lower ranks and you have a bad team it's best for you and your cousin to try and carry the game. When ganking as an assassin for example Kha Zix, try and get as many kills as possible and don't try so hard to grab kills for your team, the more fed you are the easier it would be to carry. I would try champs like Kha Zix, Rengar, Shaco and others where you can deal huge damage and destroy the ap or ad carry. And to SBSP, you're advice was bad. Team fights don't always go down like that, it can be very different near the baron or dragon for example, I've seen it happen when I was in the lower ranks when people don't focus the adc or ap carry when they are in a bad position. You're getting vexed when your advice didn't help, what do you expect? Look at the comments below where people actually have some decent advice, try and be more like them next time you post on a forum. Good luck to you and your cousin, just keep trying to improve and you'll rank up in no time :)

sbsp13668May 19, 20151 votes

Look at the comments below where people actually have some decent advice, try and be more like them next time you post on a forum.

I'll take tips about how to post on the forum from someone who knows how to format their post and doesn't make the same post twice, thanks.

And to SBSP, you're advice was bad. Team fights don't always go down like that, it can be very different near the baron or dragon for example, I've seen it happen when I was in the lower ranks when people don't focus the adc or ap carry when they are in a bad position. You're getting vexed when your advice didn't help, what do you expect?

You didn't read my advice obviously. This is what I said:

If you are playing ADC and you dive past the enemy front line to their back line in some misguided attempted to kill the enemy ADC, then you are out of position.

I did not say that in every situation you should focus the tank on ADC, but that most of the time the enemy team will have a front line of tanks that the ADC has no choice but to focus to survive the fight. Xuldin was saying the exact same thing: it is not wrong for an ADC to focus the tank, as your post says without any context. In most situations (against decent opponents), the enemy team will have a front line of tanks. "But, I'm playing against bronzies, so your advice is irrelevant because my bronze enemies are bad and will be out of position most of the time," you say. Then, stay bronze.

MonkeyDSpikeMay 16, 20151 votes

It can be tough trying to rank up, you just need to find a champion you're confident with in every role. If you're playing jungle then try the assassin role over the tank role some times, tanks can be very good and are going to be better as you rank up and get better teammates, but when you're in the lower ranks and you have a bad team it's best for you and your cousin to try and carry the game. When ganking as an assassin for example Kha Zix, try and get as many kills as possible and don't try so hard to grab kills for your team, the more fed you are the easier it would be to carry. I would try champs like Kha Zix, Rengar, Shaco and others where you can deal huge damage and destroy the ap or ad carry. And to SBSP, you're advice was bad. Team fights don't always go down like that, it can be very different near the baron or dragon for example, I've seen it happen when I was in the lower ranks when people don't focus the adc or ap carry when they are in a bad position. You're getting vexed when your advice didn't help, what do you expect? Look at the comments below where people actually have some decent advice, try and be more like them next time you post on a forum. Good luck to you and your cousin, just keep trying to improve and you'll rank up in no time :)

ZergReapMay 5, 20152 votes

IMO it's best to duo with one playing a carry and the other playing a support/tank/initiator. This way it gives you an advantage in team fights to peel or focus more efficiently, assuming your on voice com.

Don't worry about being in bronze just play to become better. It took me well over a year to get out of bronze.

Darko DoakesMay 8, 20151 votes

Yeah we already play to improve, & play bots also sometimes just for last hitting & general practice. Thanks for your reply.

JiberamuMay 4, 20151 votes

get 3 easy solid champs for every role, for jungle play pantheon, kayle,master yi, wukong,volibear champions that are easy that allow you to think about the game and very little chances for mistakes due to mechanics, toplane, again pantheon, kayle, shyvs okay, irelia,volibear . just because they arent the "op" champions doesnt mean they arent op in their own right its solo que anything works if you are good at it these champions just allow you to not make mistakes and focus on farming getting obj and getting ahead.

Darko DoakesMay 8, 20151 votes

Simple but worth remembering, thank you.

T RexHasLongLegsMay 5, 20151 votes

TLDR; At bronze and silver you can go up pretty easily by improving with a champion at the mechanics/laning level AND at the macro level. Learn how to lane the champ so you consistently win not by a little, but by a lot in the majority of your games, and then focus on analyzing your play and seeing where you are not building an advantage when you could, or you are giving up an advantage when you are ahead during the team fight and end game section of play. Also play the same champ in multiple roles if you're looking for champs that are strong. If a champ can play multiple roles, it generally means their kit has more than average in it and you can abuse that.

So for me, I started ranked in bronze during S3 and was placed bronze S5 again after just quitting for a while toward the end of S4. Both times it took me between 2-4 weeks to climb from mid/low bronze to silver playing solo (so you could do it faster if you play duo) and part of it was changing my play style, but a bigger part was focusing every game on learning instead of focusing on winning.

Your teammates are gonna suck pretty frequently in bronze and silver, otherwise they wouldn't be in bronze and silver. So the goal is to learn how to improve your play each game, especially focusing on what you did poorly IN THE GAMES YOU DID WELL. For instance I dropped back down to silver 5 from 4 playing stuff I didn't know as well and hitting a losing streak, so I've been kinda dominating my lanes the last few games (mostly) on my main, but I lost a couple games due to stupid calls. I carried and kept us in the game earlier to day, and the enemy team won because I wasn't paying attention and made a bad TP into a team fight where my team got caught out 5v4 bc we had no wards and it was lost before I got there. Yes my team got caught out but the loss is my fault bc I should have canceled the tp and we could have stalled as 2 and still turned the game around. Start looking for stuff like this in your games and you will get better quick if you correct it.

Beyond that I'd suggest taking the roles you are best at/enjoy the most (easier to invest time to get better at something you enjoy) and trying to get that number to 3 with one or two champs in each one that you focus on. Especially if you use swaps (a lot of times I'm annoyed when fp grabs a jungle and says they are trading w/ last or a mid or top, but usually if they are polite and nice I'll be down to let them do it and you can get roles more often) you can get 2 roles you like if you have at least 4 of them covered between the two of you. I don't play ADC anymore and I think I only have to dodge maybe one in a hundred games because I just don't get stuck doing it.

I like mid/top since they play similar (plus a lot of champs can play both so you can focus on getting good w/ one champ, ie Vladimir Heimerdinger Chogath Akali Cassiopeia Diana Fizz Galio JarvanIV Jayce Karma Karthus Kassadin Kennen Kayle Lissandra Lulu Mordekaiser Morgana Pantheon Riven Rumble Swain Teemo Yasuo ) If you play one champ in multiple roles you can spam them in ranked and get good enough to beat even their counters.

So my advice would be, if one of you is an ADC main and loves it, get better, a good ADC who positions right with something like Janna or Braum support or Fiddlesticks or Gragas or Nunu jungle DOES NOT NEED A TEAM TO PEEL, that one champ to help and good positioning can wreck bronze/silver no problem. Bonus if one of you likes jungle and support is that you can play Nautilus and as both roles so it should be easy to get practice and improve.

sbsp13668May 6, 20151 votes

In my opinion, when playing duo queue, the roles that give you and your duo partner the most control are mid and jungle (assuming you know how to play them well); this gives you the most control of the map and neutral objectives, and it still gives considerable control over teamfights too.

I wouldn't recommend picking up Sejuani or Amumu as junglers right now because they constantly get banned or picked. Honestly, a small set of junglers that you know how to play well regardless of counterpicks will be able to carry you by making good decisions/plays. So, maybe watch some high elo gameplay videos for the jungle champions you already play to see what better players may be doing differently and learn the calls that they make in the role.

Overall, going based on your post, I would say that the thing that will help you the most is ditching the "us versus them" mentality towards your teammates. If your teammate gets caught splitpushing top lane and if you have ward control, then did they get caught even with wards top or were you warding the bot side of the map while someone was splitting top? It's not ward control if you were doing the latter and not getting an objective bot. And, the top laner dying while splitting is not going to cost you the game alone if you have control/pressure elsewhere. You and your teammates are in that ranking together because you are all around the same skill level at the game; you and your duo partner are not better than your teammates, and your teammates are not holding you back. Working with the teammates you have will help you climb in the game.

As for your cousin playing Cho, Shyv, and Vlad, those champions excel in teamfights. If the pair of you are struggling at working well with your teammates, you may want champions who are good at dueling and/or splitpushing. (Though, Shyv is still pretty good for splitpushing, and taking smite on her can help you counterjungle and take neutral objectives to control the game). Riven, Tryndamere, and Jax would be recommended if you don't want to change your teamwork mindset.

Darko DoakesMay 8, 20151 votes

Neither of us have an "Us versus them" mentality... I'm not sure how you picked that up from what my post. Though to be honest it does feel that way, when people don't communicate, & they just keep chasing into danger time & time again.

Regarding the not taking Sejuani or Amumu, your reasoning seems flawed, & I'm not sure how to communicate this. If they are banned, irrelevant, you can't use them anyways, but if they aren't banned, then you can potentially pick them, & so irrelevant, as you can use them.

Please elaborate as I don't think I understand what you mean from what you've written.

sbsp13668May 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darko Doakes,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=Yq9gTeBI,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-05-08T20:53:50.120+0000)

Neither of us have an "Us versus them" mentality... I'm not sure how you picked that up from what my post. Though to be honest it does feel that way, when people don't communicate, & they just keep chasing into danger time & time again.

Here's an example of some of the us versus them mentality: your teammates don't communicate and your teammates chase into danger all the time, and by your teammates doing this, you and your cousin are being held back. However, what I'm trying to tell you is that if you can recognize your teammates' mistakes so easily, then you should be able to learn how to play around them. For example, if your teammates don't communicate well in champ select, then pick a champ that is able to play multiple roles. Or, if you think your teammates are chasing into danger, then make an effort to try saving them (without giving up your own life of course) or pressure an objective on the other side of the map.

Regarding the not taking Sejuani or Amumu, your reasoning seems flawed, & I'm not sure how to communicate this. If they are banned, irrelevant, you can't use them anyways, but if they aren't banned, then you can potentially pick them, & so irrelevant, as you can use them.

What I said was: if you learn Sej and Amu, then good for you, but when you start up a ranked game, they're going to be banned most of the time. So, even though you learned them, you won't be able to use them often. Might as well get good with the junglers you already know or potential counters to the tank meta, like Shyv and Vi.

sexytwinkzMay 9, 20151 votes

Elo paradise doesn't exist. Bronze 5 is elo hell so is diamond or master tier.Anyway the best lane to play would probably be mid, if you win hard you can move around the map and make a difference in every other lane, kill their jungler gank bot from behind tower help top lane etc. My opinion. Building the right items for your champion will also give you a big advantage over people that don't so yea.. read guides to have a good builld!

KirynDawnMay 19, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darko Doakes,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=Yq9gTeBI,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-05-04T23:22:12.254+0000)

we ward well

Warding well is a pretty loose term. My definition of warding well is warding key locations during key points of the game. (Example: Warding enemy jungle buffs/camps early game for an easy counter jungle gank or enemy jungle pathing prediction)

We consistently have games where we play well, but someone keeps pushing their lane too far & gets ganked, then starts to blame their jungler for camping, & our jungler for not ganking more regularly

This is my favorite thing when my teammates do this because it's so easy to take advantage of. If you see someone overextending don't try to save them. Try to compensate for them. (Example: Top laner overextends way too far and pulls the attention of 3 enemy members. You need to realize this is not going to end well for him and have you and your cousin split mid/bot or focus a push in one lane. There are only 2 enemy members able to defend if they aren't farming/moving towards the top lane for some easy 300g).

So... My question is this... Which two champions could my cousin & I take to more easily allow us to control the outcome of games & just win games on our own?

Champions that fit you and your cousins play style and that you guys do well with. My Duo q partner plays really safe mages like malzahar or ziggs. To fit his playstyle I will go tank jungler, gank jungler or top lane tank to help get him ahead or peel for him (most of the time only him) This way if we lose a team fight they can't siege against us and we keep the team in the game.

Obviously we are not going to get the lane we want every time, & people will counter, & the logical thing to do is to just duo bottom, but duo bottom only works if everyone else plays smart. So we are thinking that Top & Jungle would be a good place to start

Duo q bottom lane is always a bad idea in my opinion because you lose a lot of focus on the map compared to having separate lanes or one duo q member in the jungle. If both pair of eyes are looking at bottom. You are trading off a lot of awareness and team effort for only POTENTIAL of winning 1 lane

Apropos Jungle, we are thinking that AP Tank Junglers would be best, Amumu, Sejuani, maybe even Nautilus are the ones that we think would be best purely for their crowd control.

Yes.

Top Lane, so far my cousin is saying he's confident with Vladamir, as farming is easy & he gets tank also, & Cho'Gath for similar reasons. I mentioned Shyvana, also easy to farm with, definitely gets tank, lack of CC though, but the tank.

Yes.