[Itemization] Essence Reaver vs Blood Thirster

Nova Skye·3/31/2015, 2:49:51 PM·1 votes·1,545 views

When do you pick up Essence Reaver and when do you pick up Blood Thirster? Most of my main damage dealers go the standard ADC build path of IE -> PD -> LW -> BT. But I also play Kalista starting Rend and I read that Essence Reaver is best first item for that. I also just saw a video of an ADC Lulu that went Essence Reaver first.

Questions are:

How do you decide between the two
(Generally speaking, of course) Who gets which item?
If you get Essence Reaver, will it typically always be the first buy (as opposed to Blood Thirster which is usually a fourth buy)?

17 Comments

PhDs Nuts3/31/2015, 2:55:34 PM5 votes

BT is usually good, Reaver is usually bad
People that have a hard time managing mana on ADCs will get Reaver. People that want to have more survivability in teamfights get BT.
Reaver should never be your first buy. If you have an early BFS in your pocket, you should make it an IE as your priority.

Sonasaurous3/31/2015, 5:12:10 PM3 votes

I used item 3508 once on Ashe and never turned off her Q. Paired with a Frozen Mallet, the support Ashe was real that game. But I don't see it as the most necessary item.

EnvyDragon3/31/2015, 3:23:21 PM2 votes

I can't think of a single situation where you'd want to get Essence Reaver first. None.

AD champions tend to fall into one of two categories: -ADCs (on whom you almost ALWAYS want to start IE, and only on a select few start Triforce) -Melee AD (on whom you generally prefer Brutalizer items or Hydra, depending).

Because ADCs want damage at the expense of literally everything else, any item you get on them will probably have at least two of AD, AS, crit, and armor pen. They mainly rely on autoattacks as a rule, so Essence Reaver's CDR and mana restore tend to be somewhat wasted; if you want the 80AD and lifesteal, Bloodthirster is a flat-out better idea. An ADC without mana is still useful because autoattacks don't cost a thing.

Melee AD generally means bruisers and assassins. Assassins don't tend to autoattack, so the mana-on-auto is wasted; better to get the added burst of Tiamat's active, or Youmuu's/BC, or something else that will increase the damage you do over that crucial two-second-or-so attack window.

Bruisers, on the other hand, tend to mainly want stuff that will keep them in the fight longer (ex. resistances, health, Hydra lifesteal) or improve their effectiveness the longer they stay in (ex. BC, sustain damage). It's just too hard to justify an Essence Reaver purchase over, say, Maw of Malmortius, or Mercurial Scimitar, or (again) Bloodthirster, if you're sure you even want a big AD item.

As for who gets Essence Reaver... -I've heard Jayce has some success with it, but I don't play him enough to understand why. -It's sometimes nice on Ezreal because it procs off his Q and gives him CDR (which he loves), but buying it early delays the damage Triforce/crit would give you, and by lategame you don't tend to care as much about mana anyway.

That's all I can think of.

I'd say you SHOULDN'T get ER on Kalista - Rend restores mana on kill anyway, so just make sure you have stacks on a minion as well as the lane opponent. Runaans has so much more value on her.

The biggest problem with Essence Reaver in my mind is that it's too niche for an early purchase, and its passive doesn't matter lategame. If I'm having mana issues in lane, I'm probably using a champion who likes Sheen/Triforce, so I go for that instead. If I'm playing a champion who won't get much out of Sheen, chances are I'm not casting enough spells for mana to be a problem.

It's a problem I could see solved by changing its build path (give it a "baby" version of the item that you buy for the passive, and then... I dunno, make it build out of Brutalizer?) but for now it's just a luxury item or a very, very edge-case item.

Kouga4/1/2015, 6:30:08 AM2 votes

I don't think the items are as skewed as people think they are. Let's review the stats:

Bloodthirster 80 AD 20% LS Overheal shield

Essence Reaver 80 AD 10% LS 10% CD Mana regen on hit

In terms of raw damage on a single output (an AA or an AD-scaling ability) the two items are identical. They both give 80 Attack Damage. So there are a few other slight stat differences, and then the passives.

Stats BT gives slightly more LS, and Essence gives a little CD. Both of these do make a difference - this means that BT will give you some additional sustain off the lifesteal, but remember that an additional 10%, if you have 300 AD, is only 30 more hp, not counting resistances. So you are getting a fraction of a single auto attack more in health. Now, this does make a difference if you deal a lot of AAs (this will be important later) but in the terms of a single damage output, it isn't a huge difference. Similar with CD - 10% CD does give you more spells in the same time period, but how much this matters depends heavily on the Champion you play.

Passives BT's passive heavily favors duels and shorter engagements. You start the fight with the shield up, and it gives you an edge in terms of survivability - but realistically, unless you are wildly overfed, you aren't going to be getting that shield back up in the middle of a fight. So it does give you short-term durability.

ER, on the other hand, gives you more of a long-term sieging sustain. By replenishing mana it benefits a drawn out poke playstyle, since it gives you a little LS to keep yourself topped off on your health, gives you mana to keep slinging your spells, and lowers those spell CDs.

That's the big difference. BTs favor duels, ER favors poke. For this reason, champions like Vayne would favor BT, where someone like Corki might favor the ER. The more "Caster" like the champion, the more likely they'd benefit from the ER.

I run it on Ezreal sometimes, depending on the team comps. If we have strong siege, I go ER. If we all-in, I go BT. There are other ADs that have low mana pools that you can consider getting them on. Lucian is constantly slinging spells but still focuses more on burst duels, so I'd edge BT over ER but if you're having mana trouble its an option. I sometimes run ER on Graves over BT, because I play him like a caster - burst damage with his Q & R, so lower CDs on those let me blast that ult more often, and I can dash and smokescreen at will without running out of mana.

Sivir, actually, does quite well with a CDR build, getting CD boots and ER to push instead of dueling.

FarRockBF3/31/2015, 3:10:34 PM2 votes

item 3508 has no where near the kill/sustain potential item 3072 has. However, certain champs simply cannot fight long fights due to mana constraints and as such NEED or item 3004 .

See Ezreal .

Peel Your ADC3/31/2015, 4:27:33 PM1 votes

If the game permits you to shove like the OG Ricochet-bot, sivir enjoys it when people are derping around in silver and trying to do this whole "Lets group up and do nothing until minions reach a side lane tower, engage them lose the fight and watch the enemy back off to buy items" thing. Push hard. Push fast. Q-W every wave for +6 minions and go ham on a tower then run like a skeez when they come for you with your ult.

CrazedPorcupine4/1/2015, 2:40:39 AM1 votes

Depends on teh build

For Instance, my AoE Perma Q Ashe build is Hurricane, Essence Reaver, IE, Statikk Shiv, LW, Beserker's

My AoE Crit Storm Jinx is IE, Hurricane, PD, Reaver, LW, Zephyr (You stay in Rocket form the ENTIRE Time and just rain down AoE crits in a gigantic AoE)

tplegs07084/1/2015, 5:59:15 AM1 votes

i think the only two adcs who benefit from item 3508 are Ezreal and Corki . Those are about it.... even then... with BOTH of those champions your first build should be to rush item 3078 because of the on hit procs from the sheen will outduel your opponent. I dont play a lot of corki but i do a decent amount of ez. i cant imagine their paths are too incredibly different but i would build ez like this.

item 3078 > item 3020 > item 3031 > item 3508 > item 3072 > your choice of 6th item pending situation... banshee GA merc scept some get BOTRK if against a tank team its all up to u but those first 3 items are pretty standard. the boots if u want can be swapped for item 3158 .

Ironclad Dragon3/31/2015, 2:56:45 PM1 votes

No one buys Essence Reaver. For reasons I do not understand.