Split-Pushing 101

ABlueQuaker·Feb 18, 2015·2 votes·509 views

Short and simple: the goal of split-pusher is finding the balance between pressuring the map and surviving.

You don't provide map pressure if you're dead.
You will die, as a split-pusher, if your Top Lane counterpart from the enemy team is able to kill you by his/herself.
You will also die, as a split-pusher, if it is efficient for the enemy team to kill you.
It becomes efficient for the enemy team to send multiple people to kill you if your team isn't visibly pressuring another area of the map (i.e. Neutral Objectives or Turrets).
You don't provide map pressure if your team is dead.
Your team will, most likely, die if your Top Lane counterpart participates in a team fight and you do not. This is known as a numbers advantage.
A numbers advantage exists when it is statistically suggested that an advantage is gained by another party based on the number of individuals in said party in comparison to the second party.
Map pressure (and by extension, split-pushing) is made useless when you fail utilize the advantage gained through good decision making - the internal debate most often being enemy structures vs. fights.
If you decide to take enemy structures, you need to have assessed whether or not your team can continue to hold the enemy team at bay at a numbers disadvantage.
If you decide to fight, you need to have assessed your potential impact in said fight or whether it's actually viable to fight at all.

14 Comments

GraidonFeb 19, 20152 votes

Split pushing 101. Certain characters are meant to split push. Others are not. Jax, Jayce, Udyr...these are examples of split pushers. Syndra, Leblanc, Braum.................THESE ARE EXAMPLES OF CHAMPIONS WHO SHOULD NEVER LEAVE THE TEAM TO SPLIT PUSH.

Ark Angel HFBFeb 19, 20154 votes

Yeap LB... a high wave clear, high mobility champs with awesome single target burst should NEVER split push...

Stay bronze skippy....

GraidonFeb 19, 20153 votes

Yawn. You're assuming that LB has the AP to do what you suggest. Leblanc does not inherently have high wave clear, nor does she have significant single target burst. Both require a substantial amount of gold. Yes. You are correct. If a full build 40 minute Leblanc split pushes, there is nothing wrong with that. But that is the exception to the rule.

Leblanc should NOT be split pushing in most cases. She can shove waves, yes. Take down turrets fast? Nope. Even if she is doing well she serves her team better nuking down squishies in the back line than off split-pushing.

But please, teach me moar.

Ark Angel HFBFeb 19, 20153 votes

"You're assuming that LB has the AP to do what you suggest."

Not much of an assumption... If lb doesn't have AP... then she is doing poorly... doing poorly means she probably isn't able to solo anyone... and if you can't solo anyone spliting off is often a bad idea... still considering she builds AP and can wave clear easily from lvl 6 on even without ap... yes I'm assuming that a lb can full wave clear on a 32 to 24 second cd.., and that is before any cdr.

"nor does she have significant single target burst."

Did you really just say LB doesn't have single target burst... WTF is your bronze ass smoking. fuck you even go on to say her job is nuking people later on. You really can't logic...

"Take down turrets fast? nope"

High AP champs take towers fine.

The real problem with people like you is that you don't get what really makes a good split pusher.

It is when you create a situation that a single enemy can not deal well with, that a split push is a good idea.

LB has massive burst on low cd, Is very VERY safe, And can burst hard even if the enemy is under tower...

This means that the enemy much send two to stop her, giving your team the advantage else where on the map.

Now maybe not in whatever tier of wood you are playing in... this doesn't happen.

But, when you are brave enough to post from the account you play on... rather than a non ranked account you are currently on... my Diamond 4 ass might be able to teach you something.

ABlueQuakerFeb 20, 20152 votes

This. And apart from anything, Riot has specifically addressed the issue of AD vs. AP splitpushing with the introduction of the new AP Elixir.

GraidonFeb 20, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ark Angel HFB,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=XWJf2eAh,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-19T22:19:39.247+0000)

"You're assuming that LB has the AP to do what you suggest."

Not much of an assumption... If lb doesn't have AP... then she is doing poorly... doing poorly means she probably isn't able to solo anyone... and if you can't solo anyone spliting off is often a bad idea... still considering she builds AP and can wave clear easily from lvl 6 on even without ap... yes I'm assuming that a lb can full wave clear on a 32 to 24 second cd.., and that is before any cdr.

Right. Thank you for agreeing with me. If she doesn't have AP splitting off is a bad idea. Which was my point. If LB is doing poorly, she shouldn't split. If she is doing well, she serves better to assassinate carries or help set picks.

"nor does she have significant single target burst."

Did you really just say LB doesn't have single target burst... WTF is your bronze ass smoking. fuck you even go on to say her job is nuking people later on. You really can't logic...

If LB does not have AP, then she cannot burst someone down. You can't read, so there's really no point in talking to you. You already agreed that if she is doing poorly she can't solo anyone. If LB has little AP or is behind then she has no ability to burst.

"Take down turrets fast? nope"

High AP champs take towers fine.

You're like a broken record. High AP champs do take towers fine. LB being behind means she cannot take those towers.

The real problem with people like you is that you don't get what really makes a good split pusher.

It is when you create a situation that a single enemy can not deal well with, that a split push is a good idea.

LB has massive burst on low cd, Is very VERY safe, And can burst hard even if the enemy is under tower...

This means that the enemy much send two to stop her, giving your team the advantage else where on the map.

Now maybe not in whatever tier of wood you are playing in... this doesn't happen.

But, when you are brave enough to post from the account you play on... rather than a non ranked account you are currently on... my Diamond 4 ass might be able to teach you something.

No, the real problem is you assume a champion is ahead when it suits your arguments. You made comments that not only contradict your argument but validate my original post regarding LB as a split pusher. Unless she is far ahead in a -win more- situation, as in, she does not have the high AP burst, then she is useless as a split pusher. Can there be circumstances where she can get away with split pushing? Sure. Does that mean she should always break away from the team to split push? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

You raging, cursing, and belittling really bears no weight on the issue whatsoever. A fed Mundo can split push. A fed Braum can split push with Elixir of Ruin. What I'm saying is people like Syndra, and Braum, and yes....Leblanc, should generally not be off split pushing at random times.

By the way, kudos to you making diamond iv. It's a shame your such an asshole, but hey, what can you do?

Ark Angel HFBFeb 20, 20151 votes

"You're like a broken record."

So are you saying that LB won't have much AP... the difference between our two statements however is that most of the time she will in fact have plenty of AP. I'm not talking a DC, Void, and has hacked the game to get dfg back in... I'm talking like 1.5 to 2 items by the 20 min mark. Which is just a normal pace for a mid laner who is doing just ok.

Everything you say is based around the worst case situation of her not having a ton of AP... so even though you are wrong, lets say she doesn't have much ap... She got camped in lane, Her jungler feed the enemy double buff twice... her internet went out for a bit so her opponent got a lvl lead... or what is likely in the case of you playing her, the enemy was more skilled and dumpster'd you.

So she walks bot lane and walks up to the creep wave and W > R wave cleared! pops back to her W and walks back a bit to be safe, lets her creeps walk ahead as scouts... general plays smart, wards with her dicount sight stone that she gets at lvl 9 for 250.

So, Her W escape up in less than 7 second, her R to clear next wave or burst up in roughly 25ish when the wave won't even be to her until 30, E still up for slow+snare to help run... AND if there was a canon minion Q was there for her.

Since we are going by what your dumb ass keeps spouting that she has 0 ap, and forgot how to even open the store to buy a d-ring... and is super under lvl, spliting off can be a great way to get CS and Solo exp. This is a good way to get a carry assassin back into the game... and since she has plenty of ways to get away and still be safe while waving clearing... she is in fact a good choice for a split pusher... even in some of the worst situations.

"By the way, kudos to you making diamond iv. It's a shame your such an asshole, but hey, what can you do?"

Make Diamond 4 maining a split pusher... why would I know anything about split pushing.

But I'm sorry that an unskilled unproven unranked player decided to try and back up a poor choice when picking a bad split pusher with poor logic and even worse knowledge of the game.

If you had said malz, or lux, so some other low mobility mage I'd have agreed with you...

But you picked mother fucking LB... who has insane mobility, on short cds, with huge burst, and decent wave clear.

You are fucking wrong, hold that to your chest and grow as a person from it.

What I can't do is seem to get through to your scrub ass... but w/e, if you want to stay casual that is on you. Just don't expect all of your unfounded, unintelligent opinions to get free passes when you come on GD and give people bad advice.

GraidonFeb 20, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ark Angel HFB,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=XWJf2eAh,comment-id=000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-02-20T15:59:50.422+0000)

"You're like a broken record."

So are you saying that LB won't have much AP... the difference between our two statements however is that most of the time she will in fact have plenty of AP. I'm not talking a DC, Void, and has hacked the game to get dfg back in... I'm talking like 1.5 to 2 items by the 20 min mark. Which is just a normal pace for a mid laner who is doing just ok.

I'm saying when she doesn't, she shouldn't. When she does, she has more useful team-oriented things she could be doing.

Everything you say is based around the worst case situation of her not having a ton of AP... so even though you are wrong, lets say she doesn't have much ap... She got camped in lane, Her jungler feed the enemy double buff twice... her internet went out for a bit so her opponent got a lvl lead... or what is likely in the case of you playing her, the enemy was more skilled and dumpster'd you.

Not everything, you just work under the assumption that everything is the best case scenario. All I'm saying is that more often than not the circumstances do not warrant your claims. I just find it humorous that you resort to childish tantrums and general harassment during discussion.

So she walks bot lane and walks up to the creep wave and W > R wave cleared! pops back to her W and walks back a bit to be safe, lets her creeps walk ahead as scouts... general plays smart, wards with her dicount sight stone that she gets at lvl 9 for 250.

You just illustrated a scenario where a Leblanc wave cleared. At no point did you mention pushing ahead for a sustained duration of time in order to push down a turret.

So, Her W escape up in less than 7 second, her R to clear next wave or burst up in roughly 25ish when the wave won't even be to her until 30, E still up for slow+snare to help run... AND if there was a canon minion Q was there for her.

Since we are going by what your dumb ass keeps spouting that she has 0 ap, and forgot how to even open the store to buy a d-ring... and is super under lvl, spliting off can be a great way to get CS and Solo exp. This is a good way to get a carry assassin back into the game... and since she has plenty of ways to get away and still be safe while waving clearing... she is in fact a good choice for a split pusher... even in some of the worst situations.

Ah, more vulgarity and abuse. So necessary. I never required that she had 0 AP. But your passive aggressive approach to discussion doesn't help the validity of the arguments you attempt to construct. While I agree that soaking experience and gold in a lane is a good way of approaching a Leblanc who is behind, I think you would advise against someone who is behind from overextending by split pushing a lane too far.

"By the way, kudos to you making diamond iv. It's a shame your such an asshole, but hey, what can you do?"

Make Diamond 4 maining a split pusher... why would I know anything about split pushing.

I never made claims to the contrary? I paid you a complement and you took it as an insult. :P

But I'm sorry that an unskilled unproven unranked player decided to try and back up a poor choice when picking a bad split pusher with poor logic and even worse knowledge of the game.

If you had said malz, or lux, so some other low mobility mage I'd have agreed with you...

But you picked mother fucking LB... who has insane mobility, on short cds, with huge burst, and decent wave clear.

You are fucking wrong, hold that to your chest and grow as a person from it.

What I can't do is seem to get through to your scrub ass... but w/e, if you want to stay casual that is on you. Just don't expect all of your unfounded, unintelligent opinions to get a free passes when you come on GD and give people bad advice.

While I do agree that Leblanc was a poorer choice than some I could make, I stand by the several occasions I have illustrated to you where Leblanc would be in a poor position to split push.

Mostly I like continuing to prove you wrong by altering the parameters of the particular champ in question because you seem so angry about it. Your abusive personality and internet rage serve no purpose in furthering intelligent discourse about any topic, let alone a game.

Based off the language and personal attacks made throughout this thread there is really only one of us who could stand to grow as a person. That would be you, by the way.

I made a general remark, most of which was true. A good player would have pointed out the flaw and the discussion would have led to an inevitable conclusion. I guess I would leave you with the same kind of disclaimer:

Don't expect to come on GD with your sack of salt like Santa Claus on a beach and expect to get a free pass when you throw a tantrum like a petulant child. :D

Ark Angel HFBFeb 20, 20151 votes

"Mostly I like continuing to prove you wrong by altering the parameters"

This is you failing to be able to debate, being proven wrong over and over, and so you resort to changing the question. You are not clever, just annoying.

GraidonFeb 20, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ark Angel HFB,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=XWJf2eAh,comment-id=00010000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-20T19:04:23.808+0000)

"Mostly I like continuing to prove you wrong by altering the parameters"

This is you failing to be able to debate, being proven wrong over and over, and so you resort to changing the question. You are not clever, just annoying.

Debating consists of point and counterpoint. To which, I have outstripped you in every vein I am afraid to say. By proving me wrong you have included information that agreed to what I have said. So, that actually is just plainly false.

I never changed the question. I told you specific ways in which the example I provided worked.

You're right about me not being very clever. And annoyance has to do with your own intrinsic explanations as to why you take so much anger from a simple discussion on a random thread on any given day on a particular game's boards for general discussion.

Ark Angel HFBFeb 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Debating consists of point and counterpoint. To which, I have outstripped you in every vein I am afraid to say. By proving me wrong you have included information that agreed to what I have said. So, that actually is just plainly false.

I never changed the question. I told you specific ways in which the example I provided worked.

You're right about me not being very clever. And annoyance has to do with your own intrinsic explanations as to why you take so much anger from a simple discussion on a random thread on any given day on a particular game's boards for general discussion.

:)

When the "counter points" you provide are flimsy, fly in the face of your own previous arguments, all the while dismissing my statements without evidence or counter point.... then we are not debating at that point.

You out class me only in being an insufferable cunt and troll, and only there because I refuse to sacrifice my logic to drop to your level. I'm black listing you now as you are simply a waste of my time.

I pity you having to live with yourself, it must be hell.

GraidonFeb 21, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ark Angel HFB,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=XWJf2eAh,comment-id=0001000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-20T20:25:51.287+0000)

When the "counter points" you provide are flimsy, fly in the face of your own previous arguments, all the while dismissing my statements without evidence or counter point.... then we are not debating at that point.

You out class me

Thank you.

only in being an insufferable cunt and troll, and only there because I refuse to sacrifice my logic to drop to your level. I'm black listing you now as you are simply a waste of my time.

just out of curiosity, what would a sufferable cunt look like?

I pity you having to live with yourself, it must be hell.

The words you are trying to use don't contextually fit with where you are putting them. If you are going to tryhard, trysmart. The counterpoints would be yours. I was the OP for our discussion, so your post would be the counterpoint. It's okay, I get it man, you are trying. I give you credit for that. But it just looks really, really bad.

Nothing I have said contradicts a previous argument of mine. You made a retraction when you agreed with me that if LB was behind or had little AP then she would fit into the category in which I placed her in the beginning. You are digging yourself deeper. It's painfully funny to read though.

GG, WP, EZ. Too easy.

ValyrianBladeFeb 18, 20151 votes

Not sure if this is a comment or question:

Should you not pick a splitpusher if your 4 allies do not have disengage? Or similarly, if an ally picks a split pusher should you pick a champion with disengage?

For example, as you noted, your teammates will die if the enemy fights them 5v4 while you're split pushing. However, if you have a Janna for example who can ult when the enemy tries to engage 5v4, you get time to successfully split push any objective you were focusing while your team retreats (and then ideally you can base or came from behind the enemy to join the fight).

I think the biggest problems I've had split pushing are my teammates dying too quickly 4v5. Disengage and Splitpushing seem to go hand-in-hand to me?

ABlueQuakerFeb 19, 20152 votes

That's pretty much covered in my post. That's what the decision is. If your team can hold 5 people elsewhere on the map while you take towers in top or bot, then you should do just that. If your team can't win without you, or can't hold the enemies off, then and only then should you join your team.