CSing on AP champions? halp pls

TheNewHumanine·12/12/2014, 4:16:49 PM·3 votes·5,325 views

So I'm a lowly Silver 5 who likes to play a lot of ADC. My CS scores are often suboptimal, but on AD champions at least I can sort of keep up with my equally lowly competition. However, whenever I try to play AP (mid lane mostly) my CS is absolute garbage. It's so much harder to time the AAs correctly and I don't like using spells unless I need to (cuz trading).

Anyone have any solid advice for last hitting with AP champs? Also, are there AP mids who are easier to last hit with I could pick up?

P.S. My mid lane pool currently consists of

27 Comments

Paper112/12/2014, 6:04:50 PM4 votes

Firstly, consider taking the butcher, feast and arcane blade masteries in the offense tree. These will put some extra damage on your aa's and will refund a small amount of mana and health. In general, if you have any aoe abilities and you find that multiple minions are about to die at once, use one.

As for champions I would recommend, I would give orianna a go. Her passive deals extra magic damage on auto attacks. She can also waveclear very well, but ill stay away from that for now since your query was about last hitting. You can also give ryze a go when you get comfortable, although be aware that he should be taking 9/0/21 masteries and some would argue that hes better as a top laner (I still think he can be played mid).

As for your current champions (This is my opinion): Ahri: you just need to practice ahri's autos, using q as the enemy minions come into lane in a line (as opposed to letting them settle in formation) if you need to push. In general, avoid using e to land last hits. W can be used to get last hits on multiple minions if needed. Note that each foxfire has a slightly different range so good positioning is required for this.

Annie: Killing a minion using Q refunds the mana cost and is more damage than an auto, so use that to last hit. If the enemy tries to trade with you, you may want to use q on the instead taking into account your passive. W also gets the last hit on multiple minions and waveclear.

Lux: Remember that you abilities place a mark on your target. Auto attacking that target will proc bonus magic damage. When trading, you will want to try and do spell->auto->spell->auto. E is used for waveclear, while Q should be saved to help you escape.

Syndra: Her abilities are best used for harass and waveclear (when you get the items). Use Q to last hit multiple minions, i think the mana cost is fairly small. Also remember you can use e on a minion thats about to die, then you can throw that minion onto other minions, then Q to immediately wipe them out (again provided you have enough AP). Save W on the enemy or, if you want to push hard, QW along the enemy minion wave in a line.

Xerath: Q is a line skillshot used for waveclear and poke. Save E for trades. W can be used to slow the target first so E can be landed easier.

Hope that helps

7ha7guy77712/12/2014, 8:25:17 PM2 votes

Viktor can farm pretty well. his E can one-shot caster minions after you augment it. if you line it up well, you can also hit the enemy champion.

MrBuffington12/12/2014, 5:36:40 PM2 votes

It's literally just practice. Seriously, every day, spend ten minutes in a custom game and just practice CSing; I did this for about two weeks and I'm hitting reasonable numbers and often out CSing my opponent; I still go in and practice occasionally, doing more so when I'm learning a new champion.

Mahnigguh12/12/2014, 5:42:14 PM2 votes

Malzahar and hit e = win

Hufa12312/12/2014, 5:37:44 PM1 votes

when you are playing Xerath use abilitities to farm andthen basic hit something. You et the cs and doesn't use up so much mana. I don't own Xerath personaly but I know him pretty well

Terraeclipse12/12/2014, 6:16:15 PM1 votes

As I main Mid, I can tell you that CSing with ap aa's is simply a matter of practice. Make sure to use the 's' key and only hit the minions when they're almost dead.

Really, though, best way to learn is a little trick that helped me. Have someone play caitlyn, and harass you while you learn to farm. You'll learn to farm under pressure, or you'll die trying. If you want to duel for practice, you're welcome to add me, I'm usually down for doing that.

Also, if you want help :

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/tips-tricks/W7KqoJiI-free-coaching-from-diamonds

Free Coaching on Saturday nights from Diamonds.

Simbafluff12/12/2014, 6:43:02 PM1 votes

I've used Annie mid quite a lot.

She's one of the easiest champ to CS in my opinion because of her Q, since it fully refunds your mana and halves your CD when you last hit. Yes you can use Q to harass, but for me personally, unless the opponent is really not that good, I tend to focus on farming and not getting poked down until level 6, and then I start to burst them down in combos. That said, you should definitely still harass your opponent when you can with your AA (I think Annie is only second to Caitlyn in default AA range at level 1), and/or when you've charged up your stun and the opponent gets close enough for you to Q > AA or Q > W > AA.

If you practice Annie's CS with her Q (and it really isn't that hard, especially after you've gotten any AP items beyond item 1056 ), you can get pretty good CS, and you can still have way more mana than your opponent after extended period of farming.

Good luck! Feel free to ask me anything. I'm by no means the best, but I may have a few pointers you might not know yet :)

AmazingChad12/12/2014, 7:52:45 PM1 votes

If you're an AD main playing mid lane, theres a couple of things to take in mind:

Mid laners have extremely varying autoattack ranges (this means do not expect 550 AA range on every mage)
Some mid laners have slower attack animations than others thus to be able to time your autoattacks properly for csing, u need to get used to the animation.
Remember that you're not building any AD on your mages so your AD AND attack speed are much lower.

If you really want practice csing with mages, go into a custom game and practice it. Just remember that you have to wait for the minions to get to a lower hp to cs.

ClatoVerataNicto12/12/2014, 9:43:28 PM1 votes

Don't be afraid to use your abilities to farm. Many of those champs you list get a chalice, so you'll have tons of mana.

For more mana starved champs, choose when to trade and when to farm. Try to just auto attack until a wave is built up, then use your combo to farm the wave if it's being pushed. If your enemy is standing in the minions, now you can farm and harass at the same time.

Aeolian Melodies12/12/2014, 10:07:06 PM1 votes

The best champion to practice last hitting with is the champion you intend to play. No sense in practicing with Brand if you're actually going to be playing Anivia. Take your champion of choice to a custom game, and practice last hitting over and over until you are able to take waves without missing creeps and without using spells. Among the champions you listed:

Ahri has the crispest auto attack animation, so probably one of the easiest to pick up. She has easy AoE farming (either to push or "oh shit 3 creeps are going to die at the same time") with her Q too;
Annie is someone you shouldn't be worried to use abilities to farm with, because of the nature of her Q (low CD, good base damage, mana refunded if last hit is successful), and last hitting creeps with Q charges your passive which helps trading (trades are easier if the enemy is stunned);
Lux has a slower animation (used to be way worse however) and if you want to AoE farm, E the ranged creeps and they will die of your next AA because of her passive
Syndra has a decent animation too, plus a low CD on her Q so you can use it to farm without losing too much trading power (plus the ball it spawns can be used with W, E, R to trade/disable/burst);
I have never played Xerath I can't say a thing about the guy XD

DragonSIayerPoro12/13/2014, 1:52:52 AM1 votes

play Orianna

Cale01712/13/2014, 3:17:35 AM1 votes

Last hitting with AP champs takes some getting used to, but still isn't as bad as last hitting with tanks haha

Make sure you take the mastery that deals a percentage of your AP on AAs. Beyond that the best, most brutally honest advice I can give is practice.

I tend to do it visually. I know about how much health bar I can chunk with an auto attack and just wait until it gets to that point. When nearby minions start getting lower, stop using autos that way you're ready to hit it at just the right time.

It might help to bring champs who are good for practice. Annie can be very forgiving, since her Q will refund mana if you absolutely have to use it. Veigar has slow moving auto attacks but that lets you work on your timing and prediction, learning to work with your minions and time AA shots so they hit after minions get it low enough. His Q is always ready for if you're about to lose one, and if you get careful with keeping from overusing it, it helps with your CS while also increasing your AP, which in turn increases AA damage by a little.

Vel'Koz has one of the smoothest AA animations I've ever seen, and his attacks are basically instant as soon as he finishes the animation. Using someone with smooth frames and quick missile speed can be a great help, and if you start falling behind his W is amazing for farming waves and poking an enemy to give you some breathing room.

FantasySniper12/13/2014, 3:26:16 AM1 votes

Using spells to CS when you can't last hit is a common tactic, especially when it can harass at the same time. Butcher and Arcane Blade are very useful. Time your AAs for at the minimum possible health, just before the next wave of creep hits will kill it. It's a hard habit to make since AD champs have a lot more leeway when it comes to last-hitting.

Hirok012/13/2014, 6:53:43 AM1 votes

Annie keep stun active or one-away should be enough to scare enemy. Anuse your AA range for pokes and then farm freely. Only Last Hit still. Use Q to farm if you would miss otherwise or need to stack stun. Ahri try to save passive heal for a good Q on full wave of new cs. only use charm to kill if needed. Lux Be aware of the damage your AoE does, and the damage of your AA in combo with proc. IE, if you E a group of casters and can kill it with one AA proc, good for you. Still don't use skills on cs unless needed. Syndra Remember you can pick up a minion to save it from being killed by a turret and then use it to kill the next minion the turret tries to kill. Xerath ....

In general, the most honest answer is, practice last hitting. If farming on tower, Melee CS takes 3 turret hits. Ranged takes 2 turret hits to kill. You can usually kill melee with 1 auto after the 2nd hit. Ranged usually need 2 hits early on. If you cannot kill with 1 AA after a turret hit, preemptively attack once so that you can. Using a skill to kill a cs on turret is 100% better then letting the turret take that gold from you, even if it puts you closer to oom.

DrCyanide12/12/2014, 4:24:28 PM1 votes

Annie can last hit with Q, since it refunds the mana and halves the cooldown.

Generally speaking, you should try and time your spamable waveclear spells to do a lot of last hitting, but out side of that it's just practice. Remember you attack slow and deal way less auto attack damage as a mage.

Grimspeake12/13/2014, 8:37:39 PM1 votes

id play viktor, if u can do well enough that u get 1k gold on your first back, buy an agument and upgrade your death ray, u can almost clear entire waves with it but by the time ur level 11 it should be no problem and hes just a solid mid laner too.

Chaotic Reks12/12/2014, 4:28:34 PM1 votes

Take out a mark of Magic Pen and replace it with a mark of attack speed. It sounds foolish, but it allows you to cs much better as it speeds up the attack animation. Also, try to calculate when a group of castor minion's projectiles are going to hit and kill a minion and attack accordingly.

NicoNicoREEEEEE12/12/2014, 4:29:42 PM1 votes

Practice, Imo Ahri, Syndra, and Xerath all have fairly quick autos that help with last hitting. If you own Vlad, hop in a custom game and just CS without using any abilities as Vlad. He is considered one of the hardest (Besides probably Swain and Karthus) to CS with due to the slow animation. Once you get the animation of a character down and the timing it makes it alot easier.

Deep Terror Nami12/12/2014, 5:28:24 PM1 votes

Like Cyanide said, Annie gets her mana refunded with a killing blow from Q, so her last hitting is literally the best in the game. My advice is to consider last hitting with spells and poking the enemy champion at the same time whenever possible (such as Ahri or Xerath Q). Gold is important, so if you're not in danger it's ok to use Xerath/Ahri's E for last hitting too, it's not taboo. Practice makes perfect.

Cassiopeia is a good last hitter because she gets mana refund from E just like Annie's Q (preferably poison them first to reset Twin Fang).