Is it ever NOT okay to buy SS as support?

Summonerrr 1·7/22/2015, 5:06:03 PM·1 votes·1,595 views

Okay, so was playing a lux mid game and we lost because all lanes fed, pretty standard loss tbh. What really got me was that our 1/8 thresh who put down like 2 wards in 30 minutes INSISTED in postgame chat that item 2049 isn't a necessary buy because of his W vision.

He's bronze IV but the question still stands, was he full of shit, or are there really VALID instances where taking item 2049 isn't necessary on a support?

I personally always buy it on Support and even some Junglers and probably already know the answer, but just wanted to get some reassuring input. Thanks!

25 Comments

sp4417/22/2015, 5:09:38 PM6 votes

YES

If you're not buying Sightstone as a Support you're an idiot. You ALWAYS need more vision, not only Sightstone gives you infinite wards, but it also frees up your trinket slot to get something like a Sweeper to help map control further. All the AP or AD in the world won't matter for shit if you can't see whether or not they're all piled into a brush waiting for the first dipshit to move next to them.

Lugg7/22/2015, 10:04:10 PM3 votes

A support without SS and sweeper is a fail support. Providing and denying vision is probably the MOST important thing the support does. You don't always have to upgrade to Ruby though.

AirSonance7/23/2015, 1:46:33 AM3 votes

As a support, one of your primary jobs besides keeping your adc safe and fed is giving/denying vision. ONLY if you're playing a support that can snowball into a force to be reckoned with would I ever even think of suggest buying an upgraded stealth trinket instead, but the situation should never come to that.

TheDuelist9997/24/2015, 5:09:47 AM2 votes

If youve hacked the game and removed fog of war its ok not to buy sightstone.

Linthe7/22/2015, 5:22:35 PM2 votes

The W vision comment is laughable. You "can" buy individual greens if you want... but it's not efficient. I always get SS.

TurquoiseYoshi7/22/2015, 9:59:45 PM2 votes

The W vision thing is just ridiculous. You can check a bush, but you can't see if the enemy is attempting dragon, or doing baron, or invading, or flanking, or ganking, etc. You have to at least be expecting an enemy to be somewhere to check it with W. Wards are to prevent you from being surprised, when you don't have any expectations of enemies.

TehNACHO7/22/2015, 8:22:24 PM1 votes

He was full of shit.

ModAttysu The Poro7/22/2015, 8:24:06 PM1 votes

Eh, I mostly ALWAYS get SS, but occasionally my team is behind and as Annie support I get upgraded trinket, sell SS, jungler gets sweeper, and I build full damage. Rarely happens though.

Evelynn was FINE7/22/2015, 8:46:22 PM1 votes

I think you need it no matter what

joebobby14127/22/2015, 9:26:51 PM1 votes

The only time I could see not getting SS is if you were upgrading your yellow trinket, which does a great job of giving vision and everyone who isn't support and jungler should do it. However as the support, you should be getting SS ASAP and picking up a red trinket. So, there are other, worse options, but the guy you played with was just straight wrong. Thresh W does not even give the equivalent of 1 wards vision, plus it wastes the ability.

OMGBeardAlmighty7/22/2015, 5:13:14 PM1 votes

If you are warding as much as you should be, then you should ALWAYS have a Sightstone. The only possible exception, is Teemo, since he can buy wards early, and then post 6, the lane is virtually ungankable. Prepare for rage though, since most low ELO adc can't last hit vs the poison ticks, and will flame you.

At Least I Ward7/22/2015, 5:17:56 PM1 votes

Is thesh's w gonna detect when they're trying to go for baron? when theyr jungler tryes to do an early dragon? when they're preparing for a gank? Is thresh's w gonna detect any enemies anywhere on the map except in a bush in front of him for 5 seconds?

Their Jungler7/22/2015, 5:16:31 PM1 votes

It is a must. Even junglers are starting to buy it as well. Vision wins games.

Miss New Booty7/23/2015, 3:51:38 AM1 votes

The only exception I can think of is Zyra , cause of her plants.

But you should be buying item 2049 and item 2043 if you actually care about your ADC and team. item 2043 can free up key points and let you lane ward bushes and some players are tempted to try to destroy it, which gives you a better change to see JG or sneak up on someone.

And item 2043 goes completely unnoticed in some bushes. Like the one by the blue sentinal infront of baron and a couple of other bushes around there.

Xonra7/23/2015, 5:26:24 AM1 votes

It is never okay to not buy Sigh stone. I'm not sure why this is a legit question, but without going into a rant, I will just repeat myself: It is never okay to not buy sight stone.

AwesomeChad7/23/2015, 9:35:43 AM1 votes

Vision is everything in this game......you can't do anything safely without it. Vision gives you key information about the enemy. Its like intel you receive on a mission. How can you expect to succeed in a mission if you don't anything about the area that you're going to? You can't expect to complete the mission effectively and efficiently.

iluvalar7/23/2015, 3:51:15 PM1 votes

NO. If the sightstone was that good as many claim, there would be NO good reason to not buy it on EVERY champion. People who turns aggressive against a support with no sightstone should just buy one.

Vision is GREAT, don't get me wrong, I buy asap a item 3361 on every champion I play no matter the position and make sure I use is as often as i can. However.

  1. There is other way to gain knowledge of you opponent position. You can apply a sane pressure on your lane so your opponent at least have to stay at his lane. You can predict better the movement of the opponent based on the information you had.

  2. There is a cost linked to leaving your lane to ward anything else then the bush in the river (which could be covered by level 1 trinkets). You lose exp, you lose gold, you lose pressure. Again, i'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying you can't hope to make anything close to 75g ward per minute without also expecting your adc to have to pop a hp pot or two every time you leave him like this.

  3. There is several case where a well chosen core item on a support is superior then the ward and hp generated by the sightstone.

Why people swear sightstone is so good is a matter of visibility. Wards are visible you can see and feel how much they gave you, 100% mana regen, not so much. And that's what cause a sever bias toward flashy items and summoners spell.

TL;DR: If you think the ss is SO good no support could possibly think about another item, well you have to explain to me how the hell it's not the case for the mid laner ? The mid laners is in the middle of the map, he have to roam twice less to make a proper use of all those wards. Why wouldn't they have one if it's so good ?

Zoar7/24/2015, 12:35:59 AM1 votes

If you can make it to level 9 as support without buying 7 green wards then yeah as long as you make use of the extra combat stats somehow. But usually it's worth it to just go sightstone.

TouchpadExpert7/24/2015, 1:40:55 AM1 votes

There's such a thing as the vision war. Given equal levels of competency on both sides, the team with the better vision usually takes the first lead. It allows your teammates to make wiser decisions and less mistakes. It will improve their skill shots and consequentially their damage output, positioning and overall play. Also ADCs rely on auto attacks to deal damage. They cannot deal damage on what they cannot see. If you ward dragon you can converge on the enemy team mid dragon and either steal it, kill some enemy champions or both. All for the cost of a measly 800 gold that becomes a very wise investment. Always buy this item.

Also if Thresh is burning his lantern as a vision spell frequently he is gravely misusing that lantern. His ADC now has less mobility and that lantern can be used to fake a jungle gank. Thresh will also run out of mana much faster which will lower his ability to hook and flay thus lowering his presence in lane. The times you use lantern for vision is when you KNOW something is in bush and you're all out of wards. Like after you killed the ADC and the enemy support is going into a bush to buy time on their cooldowns so they can take down either you or your ADC with them. Thats when you use lantern so as not to lose sight of them and remove that fog of war out of the equation. Frankly put, the player behind that Thresh is indeed an idiot.

DemonBoneJangles7/24/2015, 5:08:02 AM1 votes

ok time to mentally prep myself for the hell im about to cause myself. First: vision doesn't always win games, it "helps" win games, but if both teams are competent then the vision war comes to a stalemate. Second: and I get yelled at for this a lot. it is impossible to start a match with a item 2049 so in the rare chance that the jungle makes a very early gank on your lane you cannot win in vision before 10 minutes. Third: I don't care how much you want vision of the map, if your support cant get to where they want wards well you my friend have a wasted item slot. Lastly: the item 2049 is a wonderful item, if your winning and if the enemy jungle didn't take a sweeper lens. in my personal opinion the sightstone should be a trinket and not take an item slot, I find it extremely useless and even moreso if your team is losing even after you buy one. that said if you like reaching your ward cap yes by all means buy ss but they made trinkets for a reason. personally I have yet to see the farsight orb get used at all and it amazes me how in 90% of the matches ive played neither support buys a ss or even upgrades their trinket let alone anyone on either team upgrades their trinket. so as far as im concerned the vision war is only an issue in ranked matches. on a personal note if your support doesn't buy a sightstone its most likely because they think you can win lane without it. or hey maybe just eyeball your minimap and hug turret when mid disappears just sayin.

item 3512 Bones

Darkvaine7/22/2015, 8:09:51 PM1 votes

at level 9 you can upgrade trinket and in my opinion make it okay to sell, before that, its a must