Why Isn't Maoki Support A Big Thing?

The tl;dr of it is..mana problems.

I'm not saying it couldn't work. But it's a pretty big problem you'd have to itemize/rune/mastery around, and most people aren't going to do that when you could just play Leona. The seeds tend to shove lane more than you'd like (you throw at enemy champs..but they use minions to block 2nd part of damage..and either take farm from your adc or push lane when you just wanted to poke) You have more kiting problems as supports too. Top lane it's mostly 1v1, so rooting in is not that big of a deal, but bot lane, whoever you root, there's still the 2nd guy that's un-cc'd and can get a couple free hits on you when you go in. Not saying other dive style supports don't have that problem too, just Maokai has that, plus mana problems. So it really just boils down to that- you have the same problems as any other tanky-cc-support, except you're going to run out of mana before them. But try it anyway, it's fairly fun, and not troll-levels of bad. Fairly good if you're on draft mode and know the enemy support is a spammy-caster ( ,etc. More passive procs!) Just not quite good enough to be a 'big thing.'

Pantheon support is also pretty fun and kind of on a similar vein. ;)

You know what, I agree. I'm very interested in this. It can't be worse than malphite support, which I've been seeing more of lately

I've done it. Works well. Only problem is that Mao is slower than a tree. :P. I love him for jungle, but definitely need boots quick in any case.

Because Maokai is a more efficient solo laner, he gets super tanky in top lane where he can do it all on his own, rather than having to waste item slots and delaying things like RoA to buy a Sightstone and his support item upgrade. It's two items that could have been RoA and maybe a part of Frozen Heart or something.

Zyra works really well as a support because she has tremendous base damage, with solid lockdown, and becomes a pseudo carry. Where Maokai typically suffers from the change Zyra thrives in it.

Karma has a similar situation, she works in mid lane, but doesn't thrive as much as other typical mid laners, but she has really strong poke in bot lane as a support allowing her to thrive more there than a lot of other supports.

most people would take braum instead since his base resistances are significantly higher and his passive basically auto wins all ins for your carry. he has everything that maokai has but better.

Why not just play Leona then ? :)

I think it's because he functions better as a top laner, but i have tried Mao support and it works reasonably well.

Mana costs + A little more item dependent in his damage and tankiness(compared to other tanky supports).

Mana would be a huge issue. You can't be constantly throwing out saplings then expect to have enough gas to do a W-Q combo to engage or counter engage. It's usually one or the other, and there's better champs suited to one or the other. Also, if Mao chooses to engage he's got no defensive steroids until level 6, and that steroid eats his mana like no one's business. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, it very well might. But I am saying there's better picks that do very similar things. are all better if you plan to W in a lot since they have cheaper defensive steroids, and would be better if you plan on throwing saplings a lot, as those champs can poke + sustain the marksman.

However, if you were to do it, you'd probably need to start and then go before even your . You could later upgrade the catalyst into a for a more poke oriented play style or for a more engage heavy style.

[{quoted}](name=I Like Hugs,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=WEZZXhki,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-02-19T14:59:55.291+0000)

I have not tried this yet but intend to when I get home.

3 forms of CC. Great poke. Disengage. Safe Brush check/free wards. Lock down. Damage reduction. Good sustain/amazing if you add Relic shield.

I have honestly never seen it and I don't know why. I have something like 50 games played as Zyra support with a 67% win rate and the more I think about it, Maoki seems like a better Zyra.

Maokai needs farm and/or kills/assists to not fall off super hard late game. As a support his gold income is not sufficient to keep him relevant every single game. Sure, there are games where you play well and it works. But if your lane falls behind there is really very little he can do. He has great CC and a very strong ult for teamfights, but he needs mana, cdr and "tankiness" to use them and live.

Honestly just about any AP or tank champ works because of the support items. It may not be optimal, but they work if they generally build tank anyways and go face of the mountain, or if they are AP and can make good use of Spelltheif.

I'm sure Mao would be fine

Zyra's root is ranged skill shot, meaning while Maokai's Twisted Advance is garunteed to hit once you cast it, it forces you into the enemy team. As a support Zyra's able to Root up to 2 people from a distance and remain safe, Maokai's intent is to toss a tap, Twist in, ult, q the carry, and proceed to go as ham as possible for his carry to pick up a kill and then get out alive. Zyra harasses from afar and zones the enemy in a safter pattern. Plus, when Zyra dies as a support, she continues to provide for the team fight. A turret diving Zyra in the middle of a 2 v 2 under enemy turret can end up with Zyra dieing and passive shotting the carry or support or both , potential AD Carry double kill for the price of 1 support. Plus Zyra picks up more assistance gold.

Maokai support. It's a thing. Try it. Do it. Enjoy it. But I believe Zyra support is more "viable" and popular for the reasons I listed.