PSA : Junglers are not there to WIN your lanes!

its simple math..3 fed laners and a fed jungler is of more value than 1 fed top laner. when you start competing for objectives the team with the 4 fed champions will beat the balls off the team with the super fed top laner...its still a team game, so strength should be measured across the whole team and not just one champion. Too bad for these guys they don't understand. They are probably not having fun, and thats why they are mad...but how many games do they Camp Dyrus hardcore while the other lanes operate with no fear of enemy jungle pressure only to 5 man soul crush the top lane and push down all the towers, take drag and win the game...even with a 0-8-7 top lane in quite a few games they somehow are the NA champions...i wonder if it has to do with the rest of the team doing work all over the map?

Back when I used to main top (now I main jungle) I always considered a large part of my job to apply enough pressure that it forced the enemy jungle to gank me as often as possible. I can take the beating, I am the meaty death wielding raid boss. And as long as the enemy jungler is after me, the rest of my team has the advantage and can play more aggressively.

I think most people are missing the point here that Steve Buscemi did NOTHING to help me against Irelia in top lane last night.

eh. I saw a similar post already today on this topic, so heres my thoughts:

its one thing if a lane is feeding and then tries to blame the jungler. its another thing if the jungler isnt ganking any lanes that are falling behind (doesnt mean the lane is feeding/dying alot)

its the junglers job to help add pressure in lanes, not just gank when lanes are doing well but try to make a presence in a lane that may be falling behind in cs or is getting pushed in too much, or is being pressured too much by the enemy jungler.

I do agree that if a lane is lost in the first 5min from feeding then obviously its not the junglers fault. but if a jungler is off dilly dallying and just farming and not ganking or helping ward then theyre not really serving a purpose and could very well be a factor in throwing a game.

losing a lane could be from a number of things not just feeding. adcs could be being outperformed in cs and would require a gank to at least stall off the enemy laners cs and force them to either back or go under tower. top laners could be being camped by an enemy jungler, help them place a ward in the bushes up there. mid laner could be being out-cs'd or camped. help them and place a ward or add some damage and leave. i feel like my only complaint is junglers not exerting enough presence.

like I said above a jungler should be applying pressure in lanes. pressure can come in the form of psychological presence (ie passing right through mid lane visibly), coming into a lane to just deal some damage then run off, helping push a wave off of a tower if the laner is backed in the nexus. simple things like that, which good junglers do are factors that helps win a game.

at the end of the day there are good junglers and bad junglers just like with any other lane. things like this i feel are just really situational

So I'm all for not flaming either way, but you overlook a key issue at low MMR. When your jungle isn't getting other lanes fed. Played a game recently where I got ganked 3-4 times by level 3 (shyvana just kept looping around and sitting on my lane for the first few minutes. I didn't get killed in the ganks but I got zoned from CS and beat down pretty hard. I overstayed and got dove by the riven at level 4, but our jungle was just farming the jungle the whole time and that sucks to have happen since a counter gank, ganking the dive, or ganking other lanes because you know shy is top for about 2 minutes all would have been better than just farming.

When I see junglers make arguments like this I just have to ask. What would happen if you jungled for the whole game? You are a part of a lane that does not lead to any turrets or the Nexus. It is not only your job to win the jungle lane but also win any other of the other lanes. The jungler has even more responsibility. It is the most "chess match lane" It is where the most thinking must take place. It is the hardest lane with the most responsibility. You should not be hopping into people's lane with no plan. It is your job to win and push every lane through direct or indirect action.

There's a lot more depth to this than you're letting on.

If enemy jungler is constantly in your lane then your job is to survive, not win lane. If during that period of time your jungler isn't counter ganking or applying sufficient pressure elsewhere then he isn't doing his job properly and he shouldn't be playing jungle.

As someone who plays jungle alot, yes and no. It is not my job as a jungler to win your lane for you in an otherwise even matchup. However, there are exceptions. For example, if the enemy Rumble is constantly shoving the wave with his flamespitter against a melee champion on your team; your teammates is not going to be able to contest that push and is eventually going to lose that lane because of it. If the enemy Fiora is running Exhaust Ignite top lane and you never gank it, it's largely your fault if your teammate eventually feeds. If you're on Red side, and your top laner dies to the guaranteed lvl 3 gank by a Volibear, a gank that is impossible to avoid without hardcore denying yourself farm; it is your fault if he dies to that gank when you weren't there.

There are simply situations where your teammates cannot adequately defend themselves because of something that the enemy team does, typically something that gives you as the jungler plenty of room to intervene and keep that bad shit from happening. It's not necessarily your job to win peoples lanes for them, but it can be if your team sets you up well and you still do not help them. It is also your job to help keep your lanes from losing to things they cannot control, such as constantly being shoved in by someone like a Rumble, Yasuo, or Jinx, or from ganks that it is impossible to adequately ward against at that point in the game. If the enemy is constantly overextending and putting themselves at serious threat of dying to a gank, it is your fault if you choose not to gank and the enemy laner gains a lead because of this.

"GG jungler wont help"

"Its not my job to win your lane"

"Yes it is..."

Some people dont know that the jungler has 2 other lanes, 2 objectives and 2 buffs to control.

Am I the only one here who wants to know what "PSA" means?

:,v

Public Service Announcement.

I think honestly I've gotten worse at jungling since I came back to the game after having my normal mmr reset a few months ago, with having to climb back out of silver. So much rage and hate, it's gotten to the point where it's my first instinct to just do things for show, to try and keep my team's morale up, rather than because it's in my or anyone else's best interest. Frankly, a little bit of extra gold somewhere on my team won't out-weigh the damage of someone raging and involving others in an argument. If top and bot are simultaneously feeding, I have to skip over all my camps running back and forth to make a gesture of helping them, or rage will ensue which seems far more destructive than any impotence from my being under-leveled and under-farmed. Even if they're not the type to do that, so many are it's gotten to the point I find myself doing stupid shit like this now just in case, or out of habit.

Ignoring them isn't even a viable option, they're still going to rage if they don't get their way, and you can't force the rest of your team to ignore them. I feel like I've effectively become this huge apologist for them, having to pander to their fragile egos to avoid having their senseless rage ruin my games, when what I really should have done was just focus on myself and what I know is best. Let the ragers ruin the game they're going to ruin, and not let it affect how I play. In higher gold and platinum games, being a group conscious team player-orientated jungler is great, because your team can take those advantages and run with them, in these lower skill games, it's 50/50 they'll just feed the bounty to the enemy then start raging effectively rendering all your efforts to create an advantage there null.

It would be nice if everyone understood OPs attitude, but it's not even a lack of understanding, it's just human nature. It's a bunch of emotionally fragile people who don't play the game for fun, but for the ego kick they get when they win. When they lose, they need a scape goat to avoid their declining feeling of self-worth. This impulse is inherently delusional, no amount of reasoning with them will ever change their habit, it's not a logical problem of them being ill-informed, they're just fucked in the head.

when i get counterpicked darius into nasus i expect you top a lot. thats your job or if i play someone like katarina draven or riven(hard snowballers) i expect you to show up early and get me a lead