NEVER SURRENDER

KyleTheConqueror·Aug 8, 2015·4 votes·1,429 views

They say you will win 40% of your games, lose 40%, and the remaining 20% is all about your skill and your coordination with the team. Some games you will get players who want to surrender because they lose the early game (my elo has this problem especially). If the game continues with this attitude you will lose; However, you can turn the team's attitude around. If you ever get players who immediate give up, your objective as a teammate is to encourage him to JUST KEEP SWIMMING. Surrendering is like suicide, If you kill yourself now you eliminate the possibilities of it getting better. My **goal **in writing this board discussion is to ask you to _prevent _yourself from surrendering games. Whether it's a normal or ranked, it's never good to surrender because you have a negative attitude. I would make a video on this, but I want to leave it to higher elo since they can explain better sense into the low elo. anyways, i left below some tips for preventing you and your team from surrendering.

TL;DR Some of the tools to prevent surrendering games

Be supportive, but express your distress. If your teammate wants to win, he would reply with assurance of him playing at his best.
Know your role, know your ally's role. Whether you play the champ or not, give them some advice they can agree on.
Team fights > Laning phase. As long as you can stay organized in a team fight, the better the outcome usually is.
NEVER SURRENDER! You cannot try to encourage teammates to do better if aren't encouraging yourself.

25 Comments

sp441Aug 8, 20153 votes

Getting real sick of all these "NEVAH SURRENDAH" threads.

Thing is, even if you go in with your happy go-luck attitude, you're still guaranteed a 50% chance to lose. And if your team is taking a beating, like, say, being 18 kills and 3 dragons behind, your odds are probably even lower.

And also, most people value their time on this earth, and do not like to waste it by prolonguing a game that they no longer have the will to continue.

I mean, I get the never surrender attitude in Ranked where losing has actual consequence, but fuck off with that shit in normals. I'm tired, I'm not having fun, just surrender so that I can do anything else other than waste the finite time that I have on this earth clicking on a bunch of polygons.

FizzKhalifa20Aug 8, 20151 votes

I've got to agree, when I've done bad in a game and we're far behind on objectives, I get annoyed at myself and I force my self not to lay down and cry, but I keep asking to surrender just because I'd rather not waste time in a game I'm not learning anything in, not having fun and would much rather start a new game and actually enjoy league.

LordGeovanniAug 8, 20151 votes

i dont see how steam rolling noobs who cant work together is more entertaining than playing against people who actually put up a fight. all games are 50% win 50% lose chance so by that logic unless you were planning to surrender from the beginning changeing to surrender makes no sense by your same logic. if you were planning to surrender from the start that means you were never putting your all into it the reason games are fun is because they challenge you and your try to put your all into beating the challenge. but your 50% chance to win goes out the window only when you give up and are only left with 100% lose how ever if you dont give up the win loss stays at 50%. people like to say some one is feeding but they dont look at the full picture i often play top i usually get ahead early game from season 5 started then my allies know that the mid laner and jungler are missing they wait until my ward picks them to to ping it and they use the opportunity to recall instead of take or damage the mid tower to punish the tower mid while i try to survive but keep the attention of all 3 champions because that is how much of a threat i currently pose they dont take advantage of it i may die and the same mid laner who didnt ping his lane opponent was gone which i barely care about and didnt use the opportunity to get ahead which i mostly care about wants to say that i fed his laner when he could have gotten himself and everyone on his team a boost. they are the ones who mainly say gg ff @ 20. like kills cant come back from. its not like the game is a call of duty team death map where the games stops at 75 kills. kills are only a tool to get gold. gold dragon and baron are tools to get what really matters towers inhbitors and nexus. people treat this like a team death match because thats what lcs announcers promote and vets teach noobs, but its really a 3 laned tower defense game

KyleTheConquerorAug 9, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Getting real sick of all these "NEVAH SURRENDAH" threads.

Thing is, even if you go in with your happy go-luck attitude, you're still guaranteed a 50% chance to lose. And if your team is taking a beating, like, say, being 18 kills and 3 dragons behind, your odds are probably even lower.

And also, most people value their time on this earth, and do not like to waste it by prolonguing a game that they no longer have the will to continue.

I mean, I get the never surrender attitude in Ranked where losing has actual consequence, but fuck off with that shit in normals. I'm tired, I'm not having fun, just surrender so that I can do anything else other than waste the finite time that I have on this earth clicking on a bunch of polygons.

Hey SP441,

First off, you are level 7, so i wouldn't expect you to know what ranked is and how it affects your MMR and LP. This is mostly a thread related to RANKED play.

second, there is no 50% win or lose. the percentage rate of win and lose is 40/40 with the remaining 20% depending on how YOU PLAY.

In normals, surrendering shouldn't matter. Normals are for fun, and even if you win or lose you get to play the champion and troll a little.

sp441Aug 9, 20151 votes

First, I am not level 7, this is an alt account. Though I don't really play Ranked out of a desire to avoid tryhard assholes.

And no, your chance of victory is 50%, that's the flat value, if we're taking personal skill in account here, then the spread could be anywhere from 1% chance to 99% chance.

KyleTheConquerorSep 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

First, I am not level 7, this is an alt account. Though I don't really play Ranked out of a desire to avoid tryhard assholes.

And no, your chance of victory is 50%, that's the flat value, if we're taking personal skill in account here, then the spread could be anywhere from 1% chance to 99% chance.

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2wg836/the_theory_of_winning_and_losing_402040_from_a/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEKi_9zumIU

LuggAug 8, 20151 votes

I hate to surrender, but if the enemy team is up 20 kills, 3 dragons, 4 towers, and has a better scaling team, it's time to surrender.

Blue SocialistAug 8, 20153 votes

tbh I'd say that's debatable depending on which 4 towers they took (i.e. were 3 of them all mid or are they more evenly distributed) and the possibility of getting a baron or a couple dragons to catch up. I wouldn't look at it solely from a stats perspective but rather look at the full picture with stuff like "Okay, is it just one guy that's feeding? Or is it all of us?"

That said, I do recognize that there's definitely a clear point when surrendering really is the best option to go with.

LuggAug 8, 20151 votes

Almost any game can be salvaged if you have decent players. However, when the odds drop below 5%, it's time to move on to the next game.

Blue SocialistAug 8, 20152 votes

right but what exactly is 5% is subjective all the same.

LuggAug 8, 20151 votes

It's not an exact number, it's just something like "I can only see us pulling this out maybe 1 of 20 games" type thing. Just basically a very low chance of winning the game.

LordGeovanniAug 8, 20151 votes

but if you dont try then you cant pull it 1 out of 20 games because you try to do it 0 out of 20 games

LuggAug 8, 20151 votes

To be realistic, it's usually an even lower win rate than that. You are better off starting a new game then wasting more time on a losing one.

LordGeovanniAug 8, 20152 votes

if the chance that you could lose means the game isnt worth playing that means you wouldnt try playing at all because its not worth it

LuggAug 8, 20151 votes

There's a chance that you will lose every game even before it starts. Why would you waste further time on a game where you have less than 5% chance to win when you can surrender and start a game where you have a 50% chance to win? It's just common sense.

LordGeovanniAug 9, 20152 votes

you keep saying 5% chance to win when there is no way to calculate or prove it. that is purely speculation an estimate you came up with in your own head because you dont believe in your own ability to turn around the situation (POSSIBLY rightfully so) and contrary to popular belief sense was never common and this attitude as only hit over 50% of games in the last year this time last year out of 20 games i played 3 on either side would end in surrender now its aproximately 12 out of 20 games ending in surrender (less for aram but before this year i have never even seen an aram surrender and only twice before seen the surrender vote on aram) ive been playing between 3.5 - 5 years

KyleTheConquerorAug 9, 20152 votes

{quoted}

tbh I'd say that's debatable depending on which 4 towers they took (i.e. were 3 of them all mid or are they more evenly distributed) and the possibility of getting a baron or a couple dragons to catch up. I wouldn't look at it solely from a stats perspective but rather look at the full picture with stuff like "Okay, is it just one guy that's feeding? Or is it all of us?"

That said, I do recognize that there's definitely a clear point when surrendering really is the best option to go with.

If i may give an example of a game that resembles one of your key points:

The game was layered out horrifically from the start. No one had a clue on where they were going, and we were sure we were going to lose. My friend was raging like a bitch about "yep we lose. gg." If i remember correctly, the line up was: Gragas Fiora Jarvan Nunu Vayne

everyone in the game but 2 other people felt like surrendering. I simply told my duo buddy to just farm himself and try not to die, let the other people fail this game. Unexpectedly, Nunu and Vayne (my friend and I) were feeding like crazy. all of bot gone, all of top, and 2nd tier mid turret stood. The RANKED game was a mess, but 1 team fight turned a 3/14 score to somewhere around 7/15. The game went on for another ten minutes until finally, we won.

TL;DR The point is, Every champ plays a role in specific timings of the game. If you manage to wait in that game for that specific to get what he/she needs, then you aren't done playing until that nexus is destroyed.

LordGeovanniAug 8, 20151 votes

if they had better scaleing that means you had the upper hand early and the only way for people like that to win early game is if they play together versus an unorginized team. ive come back from 40 kill gaps and made steals for dragons and barons. warding working together and jumping people who walk alone works well. dont jump 1 persona nd then think you can win 5v4 versus a fed team if they that feed 1 champion rarely makes a diffrence the fact is if the enemy is ahead longer games cant benefit them they only benefit the people who or behind or the team with Sion Veigar or Nasus . there is always a chance to win as long as you try but you arnt garenteed a win the same way you arnt garenteed a loss people who only want to play through if its an easy 20 minute win disgust me i have about 52% ranked wins according to the app i have. what i won i won but rarely cause we were so fed the enemy surrendered but the enemy could have came back and won there is always that chance that i could have 20% less wins. but what i lost where my allies surrendered not saying that i could win all but there is always that chance i could have 38% more wins. the thing is i have people with higher rank than me but lower % wins friends too and they believe in surrendering most of them dont win more ranked games than me its just which games they win and lose and less of them play more ranked games than me.

LuggAug 8, 20151 votes

If we have an outside chance to win, I won't surrender. But when the other team has a 5+ kill lead in every lane, your odds are so low that you are better off buying a lottery ticket. Once people start the surrender vote or say GG, your odds of a comeback are really bad. It's super hard to turn anything around if one of your teammates has given up.

LordGeovanniAug 8, 20151 votes

old lottery saying. if you dont play you cant win. is solo q most people only play for them selves and its why they end up behind so considering you never considered your allies an asset why does them giving up matter at all. when they ones who believe in team play and consider their allies can do something even if it is only be bait to defend mid while you split push they are doing something and helping. the fact is there is no way to calculate your chances of winning there is no formula that says 200 gold diffrence between teams equal 5% better win chance. from the beginning of welcome to summoners rift to the end when the nexus blows up its a 50-50 chance that one team or the other will win. gold and kills give the illusion of being ahead when its really about how much towers you got to the enemy nexus and if you can push it. thats like when i play and we get top inhibitor and we get mid inhibitor and the enemy has none of our inhibtors the idiots go back mid to push when because the enemy is pushing mid like they can push superminion lane before 5 man can push bot and like mid tower mattters when you can get bottom and end with the help of the top lane superminions. they stop pushing go back defend and draw out the game longer. allowing the enemy to come back and win cause they held out versus the supermminions and attacked as a team while my team is chaseing kills. ahead does not surely mean win but it you still want to try to snowball to win. though thats boring

LuggAug 8, 20151 votes

You just have to weigh the options. Is it worth possibly wasting 20+ minutes on a game that I am most likely to lose? Or is it better to start a new game where I have a good chance to win?

You have to realize that you probably fell so far behind in the first place because the other team is just better than yours.

LordGeovanniAug 9, 20151 votes

It should be because that the description is every game we play if the end game is to get the win then losing should be unacceptable before it actually happens

7ha7guy777Aug 8, 20151 votes

I don't even think a surrender vote was started Sorry for not blocking the names, i don't know how to do that on my phone

LordGeovanniAug 8, 20151 votes

Not will lose but makes it more likely to lose cause you can still be carried but look at this if your champion isnt an early game champions its probbaly a mid or late game one apply the same for your team comp. and remember just thinking we gonna lose makes it 36% more likely that you will and also means you dont even believe in your own ability to turn the game around none the less your team's or any one else on it

Vik4prezSep 7, 20151 votes

There are a lot of instances in which I will not surrender or will try to convince my teammates that we might still be able to win.

But there really are scenarios in which pulling out a win is so unlikely that its just better to surrender and move on.

If the enemy team has a Vayne that gets super fed early and has at least some semblance of how to place, your team stands a very low chance of winning even if your other lanes went even. In a game such as this, where an opposing champion who scales fantastically well into late game and is played well, its best to just surrender at 20 than sit around for 20-30 more minutes struggling against the odds.

In some cases, it really is better for everyone on your team to just surrender and prevent yourselves from tilting from a single game.