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Played 164 games and have more questions than when I started =/

Vekkna··4 votes·1,649 views

I started playing exactly 1 month ago and love the game so far. I've played a few different champs with mixed success in various roles. I have already improved a LOT and have done lots of reading on these boards and guides posted elsewhere.

The problem is that I have a lot of questions I can't seem to find the answers to. I was really surprised that I couldn't find a forum anywhere about champ-specific discussion in particular. Most guides are so old that, even when they're updated, the comments and discussion are mostly useless.

I guess I will just post all my questions here and hope for some bites. Any help or resources would be appreciated!

GENERAL

  1. How can I get a better idea of my strength versus an opponent? For example, I see Irelia at 10% hp, and I go for the kill as Sona at 100% hp. I hit her 4 times, but I die first. Obviously, I misjudged the situation, but at super low hp, it seemed like a good opportunity! How do you learn to stop making this mistake with various champ matchups?

  2. As support, what are the rules/etiquette on leaving farm for your ADC versus accomplishing objectives? Specifically, how do you learn to balance pushing lane/turret without CS? Or helping secure champ kills without KS? How do you judge what kills are "guaranteed" ADC feed when it never feels like any kill is guaranteed?

META

  1. I don't understand the reasons for fixed lane roles. For example, let's say your team picks Trynd top, Jayce mid, Vi jg, and Janna sup. I'm left with ADC, but the whole rest of the team picked physical dps. I understand the meta behind ADC, but in a situation like this it makes sense to pick a high-scaling magic champ like Cassio. She scales super well with farm, has good poke, and forcing magic resist makes the whole rest of your team more effective. Why is this the wrong decision?

  2. I've done extremely well taking Morgana top, but I get called a troll for it sometimes. It's easy to push the lane hard and get lots of minion damage on a turret while avoiding ganks and getting great poke. If you already have a tanky jg and fighter/tank support, why would this be a bad choice if the results are good? Likewise, I feel like I'd do pretty well as Karma in mid, but I'm told she's bot-only.

  3. I frequently get comments when picking a champ that "X is only for Y role right now." For example, Kayle support or Elise....anywhere on the map. Guides are not helpful here (eg the highest-rated Janna guide I found was AP midlaner). How am I supposed to know which champs can go where, which are off-meta hipster picks, and which are fail/troll picks? Everyone says Elise is jg-only (and still godawful). Riot says Elise is a mage, mages go allegedly go mid, so why can't Elise go mid? I'm told Kayle is mid-only. Riot says Kayle is a support, supports go bot, so why can't Kayle go bot? Help!

  4. Champs like Katarina, Zed, LeBlanc, and Sejuani are banned in every draft game. Others are banned often enough to not bother learning to play for a new role (Volibear, Gragas, Wukong, Fizz, Udyr, Fiora, etc). This is frustrating to me because I bought Fiora, LeBlanc, and Katarina (and all their skins) because they look cool and filled roles I need to learn. Why doesn't Riot take action to tone some of these down to promote more ban diversity so we can play champs we paid for? I'm told that my experience of dying instantly when a Katarina or Zed is on the screen is normal, so can anyone explain why Tormented Soil gets nerfed while 1-shot-wonders are effectively unplayable in draft but still being sold?

STRATEGY

  1. How do you know when to start roaming during laning?

  2. How do you know when to chase instead of falling back and pushing objectives?

  3. When should I be joining teamfights instead of staying in lane to farm or guard towers? My instinct is to join when I see 4 v 4 or 5 v 4, but when I'm top lane, my teammates often tell me to just stay up there and push/farm.

CHAMP-SPECIFIC QUESTIONS

  1. I love playing Irelia, but I have no clue how to not get rekt by everything from levels 1-5.

  2. I love Syndra but have very mixed success with her in mid. I'm told that she is "off-meta" right now because assassins are dominating midlane. Hugging turret does nothing for me when Master Yi jumps out of jungle or Zed is lane opponent. All of her guides talk about how powerful she is without addressing my problems of perma-oom and being killed on sight.

BUILDING

  1. Dying is bad, but I'm told that building defensive items is also bad. Using my example above where I'm killed on sight by a teleporting/invulnerable target I can't even attack, it makes sense to me to build a Ninja Tabi instead of Sorc Shoes. Or when I need mana and CDR to build the Frozen Heart. But what I hear over and over again is "build a Zohnya's and never build anything else with armor." Why, though?

  2. Some item builds seem really good to me, but I NEVER see anyone use them. For example, building both a Lich Bane and a Iceborn Gauntlet end game on Sona. Or building both an Archangel's Staff and a Manamune on a squishy, mana-hungry champ like Syndra. On paper, it looks to me like infinite skill spam, a massive shield, and a team-fight burst toggle. The question is this: If nobody is using it, should I assume it's terrible and not even try it out?

  3. On support champs, I've done far better building Talisman of Ascension over Frost Queen because of the movement speed and on-use. Frost Queen is recommended on Sona, Karma, and Nami, but I do worse with it. Should I use what works or what I'm "supposed to" use?

  4. Of all the champs I've played, CDR and mana feel like the highest priorities to build. I've learned to not use spells on minions unless it means 3-6 last-hits and to poke conservatively. But when my opponent goes all-in on me, I'm oom after the fight and have to B regardless of whether I win. Yet advice and guides almost never prioritize mana sustain during laning, and I'm frowned upon for using Clarity. I can't figure out how to make this work. As a result, I've done far better playing support or poke champs (Sona, Morg, Cassio) and struggle badly playing mage against assassin. Advice?

  5. I like building Archangel Staff, Rod of Ages, or Liandry's because I can feel a difference in my survivability with the extra hp/shield. These items seem to be viewed as sub-par AP items that have their niches, not as defensive items with strong offense. Instead of building straight AP items and then building a strong defense item at the end, why not build balanced items throughout the game? In other words, if being a glass cannon means dying more, should a newer player build AP items with survival attributes to avoid feeding while still contributing to the team?

TL;DR: I need information resources and don't know where to find them. Pick a question, and throw me some sage advice! =D

25 Comments

FHMarshy3 votes

Add me, FHmarshy, and ask me whenever you have questions.

Vekkna1 votes

When I get home tonight, I'll add you. Thanks in advance! =D

Junsui Aoi3 votes

These guys are great, just make sure you check the dates on their videos :) Youtube is a great resource since they can't just update the same guide and have old comments on it. Jeremy GamingCurios Phylol

GENERAL "1) How can I get a better idea of my strength versus an opponent?" As a Sona main, I feel your pain. But here are some tips.

  1. Look at their build. If you are a Sona and they built MR (magic resist), then you probably won't get as much damage off as you'd like. In general, a support shouldn't greed for a kill
  2. Look at the champ. Certain champs are really good at tricking you into thinking they're vulnerable. Akali, Riven, and yes, even Irelia fall under this. They either do quick damage, or have ways to prevent you from doing damage (sheild/stuns). This is a 'more you play' type of thing to learn which low health champs you can try that on. But if you have lich bane, and your q powerchord stay and they're SQUISHY, then you can try it. but make sure your mana is up.

"2) As support, what are the rules/etiquette on leaving farm for your ADC versus accomplishing objectives? Specifically, how do you learn to balance pushing lane/turret without CS? Or helping secure champ kills without KS? How do you judge what kills are "guaranteed" ADC feed when it never feels like any kill is guaranteed?" Well, as a support main I hope this helps XD Leave all the farm. You may pick up some when trying to harass (Sona Q, Soraka Q, Blitz ulti), but do your best to leave it for them. Now, if they backed, you're free to last hit. You only last hit instead of constantly hitting so that you don't push the wave in the enemies favor. It also leaves the most minions for your ADC. Under turret, there are more specific things you have to do. Early levels: hit the melee minion once (unless you're lulu), two turret shots, hit again. Caster: hit once, one turret shot, hit again. Takes practice, and its pretty hard as a support with no AD, but you'll get it. When pushing, I like to single hit the high health minions, so that they're lower. Sometimes you can hit them down to half if your minions aren't focusing them. You can hit the cannon a few times as well, but again, try not to go below half. This way you help push, but you don't take any either. Securing kills. This is a tough one. If your adc looks like they might die otherwise, throw everything at the enemy. If the adc looks like they won't get it, then take it. An assist is better than nothing. But if you're uncertain, you can probably walk alongside the enemy and see if the adc will get it, and if they can't, then you're in a position to take it. I already mentioned if they look like they'll die, but the other thing is what if they'll flash? I'm sorry, I already launched my power chord suck it up. The adc needs to understand that sometimes they won't get the kill. Happens even in the LCS. Now. Don't go 4/0 if your adc is like 1/2. They need the gold more because their build is more expensive.

Feel free to add me if you want to chat. I have curse voice, and my IGN is Junsui Aoi I'm a SIV support main, and been supporting since season 3.

Junsui Aoi2 votes

*STRATEGY

  1. How do you know when to start roaming during laning?

  2. How do you know when to chase instead of falling back and pushing objectives?

  3. When should I be joining teamfights instead of staying in lane to farm or guard towers? My instinct is to join when I see 4 v 4 or 5 v 4, but when I'm top lane, my teammates often tell me to just stay up there and push/farm.*

  1. Roam if your lane is winning or if the opponent as backed. Don't roam at 25% hp. Certain champs are better at roaming against than others. Like, you can roam easily if your opponent is swain because he can't push a turret to save his life. Don't roam for long against AD mid laners because they'll take your turret. Jinx is hard to roam from because she pushed like a boss. Don't roam if the other laners have said river is warded. Or if they said warded, see if they know if its a trink or a real ward, and roam upon expiration. Some champs are made to roam. Like Leblanc, Katarina, or Talon.

  2. Vision. If its warded up and you know you're safe, then by all means chase. Unless you can get an objective instead. Objectives > kills. If its not warded then MAYBE you can chase to river. But don't chase for more than 5-10 seconds, if that. Because enemies respawn and regroup. And if you can't see it, you'll probably die to it.

  3. If your team gets engaged on you'll have a problem, but if they're just holding and not fighting, then by all means, push. Just keep an eye out to see if any of the enemies have left the mid lane. But if mid is smart, they'll be putting pressure without commiting. Just make sure your team is aware that you're pushing that way they know not to engage.

Now, if you're ADC, then its a little harder. Because you're so vulnerable on your own. And in team fights you bring the highest damage over time. But then you want farm. If its well warded and your team is holding up well then whatever. If not, then join them.

Vekkna1 votes

Thanks for the resources and advice. I'll definitely check out more videos. When you're just starting out, videos are hard to learn from when you can't hover over an item to see what it does. Say red mid builds item X and blue mid builds item Y right after. You don't know that item X had MR on it and item Y has Mpen on it. Or that red build MR first because blue has longer range, or that blue normally builds Z item first but adapted to his opponent by rushing item Y.

Follow-ups:

  1. My ultra-faceplant against Irelia and getting bitched at for KSing are part of the same problem. I see numbers on tooltips, but I have no idea what that means against another champ's life bar. You can study champ base stats and see their items, but you never know their runes. So my Q might poke their support for almost nothing because they're starting at 20 MR, but the same Q against an ADC at low health might KS.

  2. Let's say we're at level 6-9 and my side downs opponent support and forces their ADC to recall. We have good vision, and their jg just tried to gank top. Turret is at 60%. We have a relatively short window of time to make a play for the tower. Creeps are at river.

In this scenario, my instinct is to get whatever damage I possibly can on the creeps to push to tower with as much health on our minions as possible. Every ADC on the planet seems to think that's just an ideal time to farm up some last-hits. I would think that getting major damage on bot tower with a chance of downing it or forcing a teleport would be worth losing 3 or 4 last-hits.

If you're support on Morg or Karma it's more relevant than on Sona since they can push a wave way faster but possibly cost the ADC more gold. What should you do?

Junsui Aoi2 votes
  1. My ultra-faceplant against Irelia and getting bitched at for KSing are part of the same problem. I see numbers on tooltips, but I have no idea what that means against another champ's life bar. You can study champ base stats and see their items, but you never know their runes. So my Q might poke their support for almost nothing because they're starting at 20 MR, but the same Q against an ADC at low health might KS.

  2. Let's say we're at level 6-9 and my side downs opponent support and forces their ADC to recall. We have good vision, and their jg just tried to gank top. Turret is at 60%. We have a relatively short window of time to make a play for the tower. Creeps are at river.

In this scenario, my instinct is to get whatever damage I possibly can on the creeps to push to tower with as much health on our minions as possible. Every ADC on the planet seems to think that's just an ideal time to farm up some last-hits. I would think that getting major damage on bot tower with a chance of downing it or forcing a teleport would be worth losing 3 or 4 last-hits.

  1. It's not all your problem. The fact that your adc is yelling at you for the KS is the other side of the issue. No adc should abuse their lane partner. If they do, go support the most fed member of your team. Legit. Don't deal with that crap. Now, as for runes, you technically can see their MR and AR if you click on them, but it is sometimes hard to tell killing blow from almost killing. While laning, watch how much damage you do. And use that as your mark. Like if I morg, I watch how much the bind does. 1/3 hp? okay, I know I might ks if they fall below that, but its something that will secure the kill either by taking it, or holding the adc there. Yes. Its okay to kill secure. No, its not okay to do it on purpose when the adc can clearly get it (auto-ing, or ulti's like drav, jinx, ez). And when you play supports like Karma, Lux, Morg, Sona, its going to happen a lot until you learn their damages. Apologize if you accidentally ks. Your adc should suck it up like a big boy and understand you're learning. Everyone is always learning. Like, I accidentally KS a lot on leona, because I don't play her a lot and underestimate her sheild damage. But hey, we got a kill, my adc can farm without pressure, and now has an assist.

Now. If you see spirit visage or banshee's, as a support just assume you can't scratch that person. Best you can do is CC them for the carries.

  1. tell your adc to push it. If they don't want to, make it happen. Torment the casters, and auto the minions low. A good adc should figure out how to last hit them. Karma you should q the melee minions, because they'll survive it. And then auto the rest low. I think an empowered q shouldn't kill them, but if you're building straight ap already (you should have sightstone, not ap) then don't empower the q. Also, if you're winning lane hard, sometimes its okay to leave the turret up and freeze the lane. If you don't know freezing, check phylol's video on it. It makes your opponents stay in lane with you since they have to protect turret, and keeps you relatively safe. And then you make minced meat of the adc and support again. And again. And again. Until you're like 5 or 7/0 and a force to be reckoned with. Careful though, since you'll attract jungle presence. Once you do, take turret and start grouping.
mvargus3 votes

JUnsui, I disagree with one part of your answer.

  1. tell your adc to push it. If they don't want to, make it happen.

While this is a nice idea, it can hurt as much as help depending on why the ADC isn't moving forward to take it themselves. I don't main ADC, but I've played it quite a bit and I semi-main support. (I waver between jungle and support.) I can think of 4 reasons an ADC will decide to not go after a turret.

A) they need just a little gold before they can finish an item, so they just want to push the wave and back allowing the turret to take the minions. They don't have time to attack the turret if they want to be back in lane when the enemy ADC returns.

B) they already have some lifesteal and want to heal off minions. Not likely at level 6, but I know I've done this quite a bit in games, telling teammates to allow me to clear a wave so I can lifesteal my health back. In that case pushing the wave removes the potential health since you can't lifesteal from a turret.

C) No vision and a roaming midlaner. I absolutely hate moving forward to take a turret if the enemy midlaner is a LeBlanc or Katarina or other assassin with decent mobility. This is doubly true when I don't know/trust my midlaner to keep them in lane or ping the MIA. I hate winning a bot lane trade only to get ganked by the midlaner when I go forward to take the turret.

D) Dragon is up. Dragon is worth a bit more than an outer turret, especially for the first one. Jinx, Corki and Graves can all take a dragon at level 7 with a decent support helping so it can be better to head for dragon. Also if you do push the turret and then are forced to B when the enemy ADC returns you probably gave up the dragon to the other team.


It's never a simple black and white decision.

Junsui Aoi1 votes

You're absolutely right, those are all valid points not to push. I was moreso referring to AD's that tend to not take action even after winning trades in a positive point. As weird as that sounded. I also wanted to keep it as black and white for him at this stage though.

Like, his example was the following:

  • level 6-9 and my side downs opponent support and forces their ADC to recall (unlikely to have LS)
  • We have good vision
  • their jg just tried to gank top

The last questions are where is your own jungler and is dragon up?

Assuming your own jungler may or may not in a position for dragon, or the enemy mid pushed your own mid back, dragon would not be the wisest choice, and taking dragon off a support kill can sometimes lead to you yourself dying upon the return of the lane (since you'll be taking dragon aggro and probably already have taken some damage from the trade).

But lets assume dragon is not in this picture. Fiddle solo'd it at level 4 or something.

A simple strategy for newer players to follow is to push and get the early turret. And sometimes your AD is too passive for that. So you'll help get them there. If they end up backing after the wave regardless, then so be it. I suppose I should have mentioned that you should never try pushing alone if your ADC backed.

The more complex strategy is to freeze lane to deny cs/xp. This keeps their turret up which is helpful if you don't feel that you should be leaving bot, or if you feel that you should be keeping their bot lane there and abusing them if you can (like keeping Vayne down in CS and solo farm). However, I doubt most ADCs he'll be playing with will realize that (again, assuming he's playing draft with unranked/other new level 30s),

So while in game, it's most certainly not a black and white decision; I wanted to keep it simple. I'm sure he'll catch more ideas and try new things as he plays more, but since he's only recently reached level 30, I felt keeping it short and straightforward was best.

MiriaJiyuu2 votes
  1. The numbers take time to learn, don't feel bad if you don't get it right away. You can click on any champ at any time to see their stats at that point in the game displayed in the upper left-hand as well as their build. There are targeting keys as well but they're a little harder to work with.

The stats though displayed top to bottom are

|..Champ..|..[..............HP...............]...[AD].[AR] |..Portrait..|..[...........MANA............]...[AP].[MR] [...................ITEMS........................]...[AS].[MS]

As Sona you'll care about MR when evaluating how likely you are to kill them, MR calculations get a little weird as stacking it has diminishing returns.

To learn the items though I sat down one day and literally just schooled myself on all the items and what they give, not necessarily how much, but basically just tagged them in my head with what they give I.E. a Spirit Visage is an item that gives HP, Magic Resist and Cooldown Reduction. I've played long enough now to know every item, it's actives and passives and all that, but that came later over time as I played more roles.

  1. No you're right, in this scenario you should shove to turret as fast as possible, especially if the window is short. Disregarding the Jungler you have about 30-45 secs and every second of that counts if your minions are only at river. The best thing to do in this scenario is to encourage them to move faster by knocking the minions lower with your autos and spells. As a general rule though the towers only worth about 1- 1 1/2 waves of minions in gold, so make sure they aren't giving up more than that (The worth of the obj aside as it's a tactical advantage, not a gold advantage and can't be quantified easily)

You mostly want their turret that early to shove them even further from your towers, but pushing this hard will cost in wards as you are very vulnerable so be careful. Don't take the tower if you don't have a sightstone (Or at least make sure you'll get it off the tower gold) or it'll cost you.

Oh and Morg top, while a scumbag thing to do, is legit. As is Swain, occasionally Fiddlesticks, Heimer. However make sure you have at least 2 ADs on your team, either your jungle or mid usually needs to be AD to do an AP top effectively. Oh and you can go Cass bot if you lack an AP on your team, it will get you yelled at, but the reasons for doing so are legit, I've seen all AD teams get stomped on because no one thought of it. Plus she can absolutely destroy bot lane if done right.

mvargus2 votes

I saw you asked more questions, so I thought I'd answer.

Follow-ups:

  1. My ultra-faceplant against Irelia and getting bitched at for KSing are part of the same problem. I see numbers on tooltips, but I have no idea what that means against another champ's life bar. You can study champ base stats and see their items, but you never know their runes. So my Q might poke their support for almost nothing because they're starting at 20 MR, but the same Q against an ADC at low health might KS.

Actually you can see runes and masteries before the game starts and as MiriaJiyuu has pointed out you can see the current MR and other stats by clicking on a champion that is visible (seen on the minimap.)

If you want to check runes/masteries you just have to visit a site like lolnexus, na.op.gg or lolskill while the loading screen is up. all 3 of these sites will have data on the game showing the people involved, their current level, champ and what runes and masteries they have selected. It's a quick way to check and get an idea of how the other person prepared. Of course, you likely won't remember once the game starts.

As for the KSing as support. I play "poke" supports like Sona and Zyra quite a bit and its not uncommon for me to get one or more kills in lane during all-ins by one team or the other. They will happen. The only type of KS you need to avoid is when your ADC can clearly finish someone. When that is occurring you shouldn't attack or use abilities.

  1. Let's say we're at level 6-9 and my side downs opponent support and forces their ADC to recall. We have good vision, and their jg just tried to gank top. Turret is at 60%. We have a relatively short window of time to make a play for the tower. Creeps are at river.

In this scenario, my instinct is to get whatever damage I possibly can on the creeps to push to tower with as much health on our minions as possible. Every ADC on the planet seems to think that's just an ideal time to farm up some last-hits. I would think that getting major damage on bot tower with a chance of downing it or forcing a teleport would be worth losing 3 or 4 last-hits.

It depends on the situation. Most of the time the ADC and support will get to level 6 at around 10-11 minutes into the game. This would be right about the time that the ADC can purchase a B.F. Sword (which is one of the first items most ADCs get.) However, if they are just short they might wonder if they can kill the tower fast enough. Remember the enemy ADC backed and is going to return to lane with items, so your ADC wants to be sure to be able to keep up on items. Many will just last hit the wave and then B for items.

At level 9 most ADCs have at least their first item and have maxed one skill. At this point yes, they should be trying to push the tower, unless they decide to clear the wave and grab a dragon.

YOu can ping to indicate that you want to see the tower fall or even type something quick. "Let's get the tower." is something I've used at times. But the ADC has some control over the strategy there. And never force them forward if the river isn't warded. You'd be surprised how quickly many junglers can move from top to bot lane if they need to, and many midlaners aren't shy about roaming to bot lane if they think you are tunnel visioning on the turret.

mvargus3 votes

I can't point out any one place. A lot of my learning was in game or talking to other players, but I can try to answer some of your questions.

GENERAL

  1. How can I get a better idea of my strength versus an opponent? For example, I see Irelia at 10% hp, and I go for the kill as Sona at 100% hp. I hit her 4 times, but I die first. Obviously, I misjudged the situation, but at super low hp, it seemed like a good opportunity! How do you learn to stop making this mistake with various champ matchups?

This is mostly a case of learning champs, their power spikes and abilities and remembering to check what everyone on the other team is building for items. Irelia has a number of abilities that heal her as she attacks and if she has the right items she could easily survive auto-attacks from Sona. Sadly, the only way to learn this is to play the champs. Experience is the only teacher here.

  1. As support, what are the rules/etiquette on leaving farm for your ADC versus accomplishing objectives? Specifically, how do you learn to balance pushing lane/turret without CS? Or helping secure champ kills without KS? How do you judge what kills are "guaranteed" ADC feed when it never feels like any kill is guaranteed?

Ah. I play a lot of support and my attitude towards CS kills is that I only want to attack a minion if I'm running relic shield and its up, or my ADC is not in the lane (backing usually). as for securing champ kills, I know a lot of ADCs will get upset about KS if you do it often, but the kill is more important than who got it. If you have a clear shot on someone who is running away or someone who is beating on the ADC take it.

META

  1. I don't understand the reasons for fixed lane roles. For example, let's say your team picks Trynd top, Jayce mid, Vi jg, and Janna sup. I'm left with ADC, but the whole rest of the team picked physical dps. I understand the meta behind ADC, but in a situation like this it makes sense to pick a high-scaling magic champ like Cassio. She scales super well with farm, has good poke, and forcing magic resist makes the whole rest of your team more effective. Why is this the wrong decision?

This could be a long post, but I'll try to make it simple. First there are really 4 gold sources, each lane and the jungle. early players divided up the roles based on 4 players getting gold and then a fifth who back then didn't get much (now we have support items that give passive gold.). They then looked at how to win, one thing you needed was a late game heavy damage dealer (an ADC), but many didn't do well early, so the one not getting gold would support them early. They went bot lane because killing the dragon was a vital strategy. Midlane became the place for highly mobile damage dealers both because it saw minions arrive fastest, but because you could roam. Jungle and Top are basically places you can put anyone.

As for Cassio at ADC, the problem is that while she scales well she also needs levels which she'll get more slowly in a duo lane. Add in her shorter range, slower auto-attack and she doesn't lane well in bot lane. But I agree, an AP version of an ADC is nice. Try Varus or Corki as both have a lot of AP based abilities.

  1. I've done extremely well taking Morgana top, but I get called a troll for it sometimes. If you already have a tanky jg and fighter/tank support, why would this be a bad choice if the results are good? Likewise, I feel like I'd do pretty well as Karma in mid, but I'm told she's bot-only.

Its not a bad choice, it just worries a lot of players. The meta has grown up around what has worked, so seeing a Morgana top lane bothers players who have seen weak picks up there get wrecked. Karma mid actually used to be meta, but right now she can't wave clear and some nerfs in late season 4 made it so assassins could bully her hard. At your level you probably don't see this as much because you aren't level 30. Once you start playing ranked you'll find that many off-meta picks that used to work now don't.

  1. I frequently get comments when picking a champ that "X is only for Y role right now." How am I supposed to know which champs can go where, which are off-meta hipster picks, and which are fail/troll picks? Everyone says Elise is jg-only (and still godawful). Riot says Elise is a mage, mages go allegedly go mid, so why can't Elise go mid? I'm told Kayle is mid-only. Riot says Kayle is a support, supports go bot, so why can't Kayle go bot? Help!

Again, you are running into the fact that people have played champs and learned how they work. Elise doesn't go mid because she can't wave clear against most of the more popular picks. Elise is best in the jungle and she's barely useful there due to her quirky abilities and poor scaling. Kayle can go bot, but she turns bot lane into a kill lane due to the nature of her kit and many ADCs hate playing in a kill lane, so they've tried to get Kayle blocked from the lane. This is something you learn over time.

  1. Champs like Katarina, Zed, LeBlanc, and Sejuani are banned in every draft game. Others are banned often enough to not bother learning to play for a new role (Volibear, Gragas, Wukong, Fizz, Udyr, Fiora, etc). , so can anyone explain why are effectively unplayable in draft but still being sold?

Katarina and Zed are two of the most annoying champs in the game, but over time you'll see them enough to learn how to deal with them. I'll agree that Katarina is still a very common ban, but Zed isn't in the ranked matches I play (he gets banned a lot less than some others.). Right now assassins are still very popular, but the meta has been slowly moving against them. Eventually they will drop out of the top tier and new champs will be banned. Sejuani only became a "must ban" about 3 weeks ago after the buffs to cinderhulk came out. The bans will change in the future.

STRATEGY

  1. How do you know when to start roaming during laning?

Depends on the champ you are playing, your opponent and the situation. Some champs need to roam early and often, (Katarina, Ahri, Talon, Riven) Others might never leave the lane except to back (Nasus.)

  1. How do you know when to chase instead of falling back and pushing objectives?

Never chase if you don't have vision.

  1. When should I be joining teamfights instead of staying in lane to farm or guard towers? My instinct is to join when I see 4 v 4 or 5 v 4, but when I'm top lane, my teammates often tell me to just stay up there and push/farm.

again it depends on the situation. Bot and Mid usually start teamfighting after the outer turrets fall. Top might never leave lane if they are a great split push champ. (or Teemo, but let's not talk about him. :P )

CHAMP-SPECIFIC QUESTIONS

  1. I love playing Irelia, but I have no clue how to not get rekt by everything from levels 1-5.

I struggle too, practice and play passively while farming is all I can suggest.

  1. I love Syndra but have very mixed success with her in mid. All of her guides talk about how powerful she is without addressing my problems of perma-oom and being killed on sight.

The meta and some nerfs to mana regen really hurt he. You need to rush some mana regen and work to use spells a bit less early. Once you have more mana she can shine. (Also see if your jungler will let you have blue buff)

BUILDING

  1. Dying is bad, but I'm told that building defensive items is also bad.

Depends on the champ. A heavy carry like Syndra is supposed to be all damage, so Zhonya's is all anyone will recommend. YOur team is supposed to protect you while you do damage. However Irelia might only build 1 damage item most games. It's very situational.

  1. Some item builds seem really good to me, but I NEVER see anyone use them. The question is this: If nobody is using it, should I assume it's terrible and not even try it out?

Usually means people feel that the gold is better spent elsewhere. Best I can recommend is test it in a normal match and see if it works for you.

  1. On support champs, I've done far better building Talisman of Ascension over Frost Queen because of the movement speed and on-use. Should I use what works or what I'm "supposed to" use?

Use what works for you.

  1. Of all the champs I've played, CDR and mana feel like the highest priorities to build. As a result, I've done far better playing support or poke champs (Sona, Morg, Cassio) and struggle badly playing mage against assassin. Advice?

Midlane mages often now rush Athene's for the mana regen. You might still struggle some, but the regen does help a ton.

  1. I like building Archangel Staff, Rod of Ages, or Liandry's because I can feel a difference in my survivability with the extra hp/shield. These items seem to be viewed as sub-par AP items that have their niches, not as defensive items with strong offense. Instead of building straight AP items and then building a strong defense item at the end, why not build balanced items throughout the game? In other words, if being a glass cannon means dying more, should a newer player build AP items with survival attributes to avoid feeding while still contributing to the team?

I rush Rod of Ages on Cassiopeia when/if I play her and Zhonya's is often my 3rd or 4th item for any mage. Abyssal Scepter is another good hybrid item. (costly though, not always worth the gold.) If you want to build defense do.

LegendaryLemur2 votes

I've only skimmed your post, but i think most of the answers are : "don't be a meta sheep. Don't listen to the meta sheep"

Vekkna1 votes

{quoted}

I've only skimmed your post, but i think most of the answers are : "don't be a meta sheep. Don't listen to the meta sheep"

That's all well and good until it costs you time, wins, and fun. I get that there's leeway within the strict meta. But there's a difference between playing something off-meta and completely hobbling your team.

Where would you draw the lines between being a sheeple, playing acceptably off-meta, and troll-picking? And how does a player know which champ is which in each role?

LegendaryLemur2 votes

" But what I hear over and over again is "build a Zohnya's and never build anything else with armor."

Answer don't be a meta sheep, sometimes stacking armor is good if they aren't building any pen, nothing wrong with ninja tabi over sorc shoes if none of the opponents are building MR and your build already includes an abyssal/liandry's.

"I don't understand the reasons for fixed lane roles. For example, let's say your team picks Trynd top, Jayce mid, Vi jg, and Janna sup. I'm left with ADC, but the whole rest of the team picked physical dps. I understand the meta behind ADC, but in a situation like this it makes sense to pick a high-scaling magic champ like Cassio. She scales super well with farm, has good poke, and forcing magic resist makes the whole rest of your team more effective. Why is this the wrong decision?"

Don't be a meta sheep. Pick cass. Or a marksman with high magic damage but cass will work fine (probably better) when you have trynd to split push.

"I've done extremely well taking Morgana top, but I get called a troll for it sometimes."

Hmmm well maybe after the nerfs...but yeah don't be a meta sheep Morg top is totally reasonable.

"Some item builds seem really good to me, but I NEVER see anyone use them. For example, building both a Lich Bane and a Iceborn Gauntlet end game on Sona. Or building both an Archangel's Staff and a Manamune on a squishy, mana-hungry champ like Syndra. On paper, it looks to me like infinite skill spam, a massive shield, and a team-fight burst toggle. The question is this: If nobody is using it, should I assume it's terrible and not even try it out?"

No you should definitely try it out in a normal, don't make assumptions. The first idea seems pretty reasonable to me, the latter not so much, but i haven't tried them. Don't be a meta sheep.

__ That's about where i stopped skimming. I'm not suggesting playing off meta stuff just to do it. I'm saying don't be a sheep. Just because people tell you something is bad or you should always do XYZ doesn't mean they are right. Try it yourself (preferably in a less competitive environment than ranked first).

I'm not sure exactly where i'd draw the lines, you should figure that out for yourself. The above probably gives you a fairly good impression of where i stand. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders.

Roles are in flux, the most important thing is how do the champions work together. Usually a marksman is vital to focus objectives, but can you get away with split pushing all game? Maybe sometimes. You want some magic damage to complement the marksman's physical damage... its probably a mid mage. You need some tankiness/initiation or another way to make progress in the game (poke/siege etc). Why not put a tank top and/or in the jungle.

Which champ suits which role? I'm not sure i completely understand the question. This is mostly common sense i think.

MiriaJiyuu1 votes

Acceptably off-meta is usually found when a champ can go into that lane and survive without taking away the functions normally provided from that lane. Oh and won't get wrecked by 80% of what you'll face in that lane. I.E. Morg top was a huge lane bully and because of her shield often could defend herself from ganks. She also provided the CC, damage and engage normally provided by a top-lane bruiser. Worse yet she can build tanky and hit like a truck and her pool allows her to shove fast. She is however highly susceptible to mobile champs who can dodge her binding and is very slow.

As a general rule Top is a bruiser who brings frontline to the fight via being a meatshield or being a large damage threat to the carries. Usually can split push or is really effective at defending a split push.

Jungle is currently anyone who can survive in the jungle and effectively gank a lane. That last one is important. They're usually assassins, bruisers, or tanks, the last two are more effective atm because cinderhulk. Often being able to solo or easily objectives like Dragon early is a strong factor.

Mid is a ranged or assassin champion who brings massive AOE or single target burst damage to a fight. It is traditionally filled by an AP Carry in order to balance the team. It is the safest lane for champs that lack an escape outside of flash because it's the shortest walk to safety although ironically also has the most gank paths. It is occasionally a ranged spell tank like Cho'Gath. ADCs can occasionally go here depending on their kit and opponent. AD Assassins function here as well.

The carry role is usually filled by a ranged carry who needs to be babysat because they are weak without items, usually an AD Carry. It can be an AP carry if you have a mid-laner filling the ADC role.

And obviously the support is anyone who can effectively keep their carry safe, usually doesn't actually matter how they do it, just what they're up against determines how effective it is.

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

There are some really good questions here that are definitely not really documented anywhere.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/League_of_Legends_Wiki

is probably the best source of information for champion and items, and learning to build them can be personal choice mixed with understanding their kits and items. For example AP garen is a terrible thing because he doesn't have anything that scales with AP. CDR ryze is bad because he gets 30% cdr from his ult and there is a 40% cdr hard cap. etc....

GENERAL

  1. How can I get a better idea of my strength versus an opponent? For example, I see Irelia at 10% hp, and I go for the kill as Sona at 100% hp. I hit her 4 times, but I die first. Obviously, I misjudged the situation, but at super low hp, it seemed like a good opportunity! How do you learn to stop making this mistake with various champ matchups?

This is really something that you have to learn through experience. There is so much that goes into this that can really be used to subvert expectations in an engagement. Champion matchups, Summoner spells, champion level, builds, ults being off cd, etc... all play a part in this.

  1. As support, what are the rules/etiquette on leaving farm for your ADC versus accomplishing objectives? Specifically, how do you learn to balance pushing lane/turret without CS? Or helping secure champ kills without KS? How do you judge what kills are "guaranteed" ADC feed when it never feels like any kill is guaranteed?

Generally speaking you don't want to take any cs that your adc could in princple take unless you have a relic shield/targons brace/face of the mountain charge ready. Exactly how you help manipulate the wave is a delicate thing that takes quite a bit of practice to learn to do properly. Learning to cs properly as a solo laner will help with this.

META

  1. I don't understand the reasons for fixed lane roles. For example, let's say your team picks Trynd top, Jayce mid, Vi jg, and Janna sup. I'm left with ADC, but the whole rest of the team picked physical dps. I understand the meta behind ADC, but in a situation like this it makes sense to pick a high-scaling magic champ like Cassio. She scales super well with farm, has good poke, and forcing magic resist makes the whole rest of your team more effective. Why is this the wrong decision?

This actually isn't the wrong decision. The meta is sort of hard to describe but it is in general the strategy that wins the most games and/or is what is the most popular at the time, and the bot lane adc/support has been a very stable and successful one. If your team picked Trynd Jace and Vi leaving you to last pick adc then that's poor champion select choices on their part. Unfortunatly you'll probably get flamed for taking cass bot just because people dont understand what they've done, but there are some adcs who have mixed damage that would be good in that situation. Kogmaw and corki come to mind. If you are interested in doing things a bit differently youtuber solwolf has some good fun to watch videos in his breaking the meta series where he takes champions in roles that they aren't normally seen.

  1. I've done extremely well taking Morgana top, but I get called a troll for it sometimes. It's easy to push the lane hard and get lots of minion damage on a turret while avoiding ganks and getting great poke. If you already have a tanky jg and fighter/tank support, why would this be a bad choice if the results are good? Likewise, I feel like I'd do pretty well as Karma in mid, but I'm told she's bot-only.

Sorta same thing, people get upset at things they don't understand. There's nothing inherently wrong with morg top.

  1. I frequently get comments when picking a champ that "X is only for Y role right now." For example, Kayle support or Elise....anywhere on the map. Guides are not helpful here (eg the highest-rated Janna guide I found was AP midlaner). How am I supposed to know which champs can go where, which are off-meta hipster picks, and which are fail/troll picks? Everyone says Elise is jg-only (and still godawful). Riot says Elise is a mage, mages go allegedly go mid, so why can't Elise go mid? I'm told Kayle is mid-only. Riot says Kayle is a support, supports go bot, so why can't Kayle go bot? Help!

Sorta same thing, people get upset at things they don't understand. There's nothing inherently wrong with any of this. I've actually done Kayle support and Elise support as well. If you know what each positions job is then you can do it with most (or at least many) champions. The reason Elise support kind of works is because she has good poke, and her cocoon is good hard cc which can be used to protect your adc. Just think about what the champion brings to that role and utilize it and you'll be good. Understanding what each role brings is why UoL was able to bring Twisted Fate jungle and make it successful.

  1. Champs like Katarina, Zed, LeBlanc, and Sejuani are banned in every draft game. Others are banned often enough to not bother learning to play for a new role (Volibear, Gragas, Wukong, Fizz, Udyr, Fiora, etc). This is frustrating to me because I bought Fiora, LeBlanc, and Katarina (and all their skins) because they look cool and filled roles I need to learn. Why doesn't Riot take action to tone some of these down to promote more ban diversity so we can play champs we paid for? I'm told that my experience of dying instantly when a Katarina or Zed is on the screen is normal, so can anyone explain why Tormented Soil gets nerfed while 1-shot-wonders are effectively unplayable in draft but still being sold?

Yeah, turns out balance is a tricky thing. Personally i miss playing Sej but it happens.

STRATEGY

  1. How do you know when to start roaming during laning?

Ask yourself a few questions. Can my team take an objective if i leave this lane? Can my team take the objective if i don't leave this lane? Can the enemy take an objective (usually your tower) if i leave this lane? Can the enemy team take an objective if i don't leave this lane? Is the objective we are taking more valuable than the one the enemies get? If you leave and can get a kill, how long will it take? will the enemy get cs and deny you cs that perhaps outweighs the kill?

Understanding the value of objectives is one of the hardest things to assess in a game, and there probably isn't a fixed "this objective is better than that one" hierarchy because the situation and team comp dictate that to a certain degree. Is the second dragon better than an outer turret? is it worth teleporting to save a tower? These are non-trivial questions that seperate the silver from the gold from the plat etc....

  1. How do you know when to chase instead of falling back and pushing objectives?

Another big question. Ask yourself "can my team take the objective without me? if no then take the objective, if yes then ask yourself if i chase this kill can the enemy team collapse on me and kill me for it? In general dont chase into the fog of war, it ends badly most of the time. Going 1 kill for 1 kill is almost always bad because it minimizes the influence your team can have on the game. If your top laner goes 20-20-0 then they are fed sure, but they have created a monster that no one on your team can deal with.

  1. When should I be joining teamfights instead of staying in lane to farm or guard towers? My instinct is to join when I see 4 v 4 or 5 v 4, but when I'm top lane, my teammates often tell me to just stay up there and push/farm.

Same sort of thought process as when you should roam. Often by the time you can walk down to a teamfight then its already over, so ask yourself if your leaving can lead to something or if you will get there too late.

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

BUILDING

  1. Dying is bad, but I'm told that building defensive items is also bad. Using my example above where I'm killed on sight by a teleporting/invulnerable target I can't even attack, it makes sense to me to build a Ninja Tabi instead of Sorc Shoes. Or when I need mana and CDR to build the Frozen Heart. But what I hear over and over again is "build a Zohnya's and never build anything else with armor." Why, though?

It highly depends on the champion and matchups. If you are playing an AP mid laner like syndra then you team probably needs you to be a high damage source, and your defence needs to be positioning behind your tanks when possible. If you start to get focused then you can use your zhonyas active and that is extreemly powerful. That's why Zhonyas is a very popular pick on mid laners. The 120 AP doesn't hurt either, especially when you have good AP scalings on your champion.

If you find yourself frequently going oom and are looking for some cdr then i would recommend morrelonomicon or athenes. Frozen heart has a lot of armour and very little mana so it is generally an item that the tank would buy. It is doubly good on a tank because of its aura. If the debuff aura is on a squishy target then the team doesn't get as much use out of it because the squishy target dies quickly then the enemy mops up the team. If the debuff aura is on a tank then it lasts the whole fight and you get more use out of it.

  1. Some item builds seem really good to me, but I NEVER see anyone use them. For example, building both a Lich Bane and a Iceborn Gauntlet end game on Sona. Or building both an Archangel's Staff and a Manamune on a squishy, mana-hungry champ like Syndra. On paper, it looks to me like infinite skill spam, a massive shield, and a team-fight burst toggle. The question is this: If nobody is using it, should I assume it's terrible and not even try it out?

Lich bane, trinity force, iceborn gauntlet, and sheen all have the spellblade passive which doesn't stack. I think you get the largest of them but they don't add which is why you wont see them built in the same build.

archangels and manamune both build out of tear, only one of which can be stacked at the same time. So it will take 40-50 min to get both stacked up and by then other items would have helped a great deal more.

Certain things can be worth trying out, and it is important to do so. I recommend playing some aram because it's good for situational builds and you might find something that is really strong. One suggestion is if you are playing an AP tank then you can go Rylais crystal sceptre and Liandrys torment because their passives synergize quite well.

  1. On support champs, I've done far better building Talisman of Ascension over Frost Queen because of the movement speed and on-use. Frost Queen is recommended on Sona, Karma, and Nami, but I do worse with it. Should I use what works or what I'm "supposed to" use?

In general use what you do best with. I often find that for support champions that poke a lot in lane starting spellthiefs edge and never upgrading it works rather well. With most of them i sell it for talisman eventually because the utility of its active is just really good.

  1. Of all the champs I've played, CDR and mana feel like the highest priorities to build. I've learned to not use spells on minions unless it means 3-6 last-hits and to poke conservatively. But when my opponent goes all-in on me, I'm oom after the fight and have to B regardless of whether I win. Yet advice and guides almost never prioritize mana sustain during laning, and I'm frowned upon for using Clarity. I can't figure out how to make this work. As a result, I've done far better playing support or poke champs (Sona, Morg, Cassio) and struggle badly playing mage against assassin. Advice?

Depending on the mage you are just going to have a bad time against assassins. Some do quite well because they ahve a lot of hard cc in their kit (Lissandra, Annie, etc...) but squishy DoT champions (Cassiopia comes to mind) will just get blown up. mana and mana regen both scale up as you level up, so having one mana regen item is plenty good on most champions. Exceptions would be champions like swain, anivia, maokai, whose ults, when toggled, use mana over time.

  1. I like building Archangel Staff, Rod of Ages, or Liandry's because I can feel a difference in my survivability with the extra hp/shield. These items seem to be viewed as sub-par AP items that have their niches, not as defensive items with strong offense. Instead of building straight AP items and then building a strong defense item at the end, why not build balanced items throughout the game? In other words, if being a glass cannon means dying more, should a newer player build AP items with survival attributes to avoid feeding while still contributing to the team?

In part this just comes from experience. When you learn to teamfight from the back lines without taking damage you can build more damage and that allows you to have more of an impact on teamfights, but while you are learning there is nothing wrong with building durability. ARAM is a good place to learn teamfighing (well, they added mark-dash which imo ruined that aspect of aram but w/e) and so is dominion. Both of these allow you to get to the teamfighting aspect of the game more quickly and see a wider variety of situations.

Any way If you have more questions or if i wasn't clear let me know and good luck on the rift!

usul12022 votes

Okay, so i'm not a pro player by any means, but i spend time on the boards, and am a pretty methodical player, so i'll try and answer everything.

{quoted}

  1. How can I get a better idea of my strength versus an opponent? For example, I see Irelia at 10% hp, and I go for the kill as Sona at 100% hp. I hit her 4 times, but I die first. Obviously, I misjudged the situation, but at super low hp, it seemed like a good opportunity! How do you learn to stop making this mistake with various champ matchups?

The biggest thing here, is to know what every champion in the game needs to be strong. That sounds extreme, but it's actually not that bad. If Irelia just got her trinity force, she's one of the strongest champs in the game, and is going to probs go full tank. Riven just hit 6? run like hell. It's not just items, its knowing who power spikes (or dips!) when. That comes from practice, and learning about the champ. one huge thing i've learned, is that if i hate a champion, i look up their mobafire guides. Because those will have pros and cons of the champ, and will generally talk about when they're weak, which you can exploit. Learning about champions you're bad against is extremely helpful.

{quoted}

  1. As support, what are the rules/etiquette on leaving farm for your ADC versus accomplishing objectives? Specifically, how do you learn to balance pushing lane/turret without CS? Or helping secure champ kills without KS? How do you judge what kills are "guaranteed" ADC feed when it never feels like any kill is guaranteed?

There are 2 ways of playing support at lower levels of play, and they depend on your support type. Theres the sheep, and the herder. The sheep is what i play on supports like sona, soraka, and nami, passive supps, generally healers, that are more utility. You follow your ADC, when they make it clear they're pushing wave, you help by weakening back line minions, but never take CS unless you have a item 3097 Let your adc control the lane, and work with them. If you play sona or the like, you're gonna steal kills. it happens. Spam your supp in games until you learn your kill power, and then push it to the limit. get them as low as possible, and then give your ADC a chance. most adcs will be greedy and take everything, even if they flash for it. Remember their flash timings if you can.

Herder Supports are the opposite, You baby your ADC through the phase, and you decide when shits happening. This is like leona, When leona decides to engage, its go time. Your ADC still controls CS (and poke more as well, since herder supps are generally less poke oriented) but you have to decide when you're gonna all in. You're more likely to have a taragons here. General tip: before minions even spawn, just type out "hey, i've got a taragons, and am going to be grabbing the cannon minions so that we both get gold, and get healed, okay?". This will go miles to help getting you and your ADC to work together.

Controlling the lane is not your job as supp, unless your ADC is gone. In that situation, if there are no enemies (and won't be fore 20+ seconds) shove hard, bounce the wave off the enemy tower to deny them CS, and then let the lane freeze at the river. If there are enemies, then let the lane push near your tower, then freeze it just outside tower range. you will take damage yes, but your ADC will love the hell out of you for giving them an extra free wave of farm.

{quoted}

  1. I don't understand the reasons for fixed lane roles. For example, let's say your team picks Trynd top, Jayce mid, Vi jg, and Janna sup. I'm left with ADC, but the whole rest of the team picked physical dps. I understand the meta behind ADC, but in a situation like this it makes sense to pick a high-scaling magic champ like Cassio. She scales super well with farm, has good poke, and forcing magic resist makes the whole rest of your team more effective. Why is this the wrong decision?

Its actually not there imo, but only on cass, because cass actually functions as an AP ADC with her E mechanic. If you can play cass, it works, if not, don't. Its a painful lane.

Now then, the reason the meta exists is kinda funky. The meta is created by what beats the previous meta. For example, the last meta was assassin mids, because they shit on mage mids, who were the meta before. now we're getting tank mids like chogath though, who shits on assassins. Same with top, it rotats around through bruisers and tanks and sustain mages. There technically isn't anything wrong with all AD (although it makes itemizing for the other team easy) because your objective control is insane, but meh, it happens. As a former cass main, i would take her there, but if you don't respect an ADC's power poke as a squishy mage, you'll get wrecked.

  1. I've done extremely well taking Morgana top, but I get called a troll for it sometimes. It's easy to push the lane hard and get lots of minion damage on a turret while avoiding ganks and getting great poke. If you already have a tanky jg and fighter/tank support, why would this be a bad choice if the results are good? Likewise, I feel like I'd do pretty well as Karma in mid, but I'm told she's bot-only.

This is a wonderful choice. Why? Because it counters the meta. Meta top is tanky (her W beats health stacking) sustain (her passive gives her an edge) mobile (her Q beats that) champs. So what morg does is fights the current meta well. However, because of that, she's not part of the current meta. This means 2 things, if you get a current meta champ, you'll have an advantageous lane, which is common. However, if you get a power champion like galio, or a big poker like jayce/nidalee, you're screwed far more than meta champions. if you're comfortable with the risk, and you're good at the champion, play it. Tell them you're good at it, and they can decide based on the final score.

{quoted}

  1. I frequently get comments when picking a champ that "X is only for Y role right now." For example, Kayle support or Elise....anywhere on the map. Guides are not helpful here (eg the highest-rated Janna guide I found was AP midlaner). How am I supposed to know which champs can go where, which are off-meta hipster picks, and which are fail/troll picks? Everyone says Elise is jg-only (and still godawful). Riot says Elise is a mage, mages go allegedly go mid, so why can't Elise go mid? I'm told Kayle is mid-only. Riot says Kayle is a support, supports go bot, so why can't Kayle go bot? Help!

Again, this is all what works with, counters, and is countered by the current meta. I don't know kayle too well, but i can flesh out elise for you. Elise is classified as a mage because she's AP based, and her damage comes from abilities, not from autoattacks. That is the base mage classification. However, this doesn't make her a midlaner, because her power requires melee range, but she doesn't 100-0 people well. This puts her at the mercy of both mages, and assassins, the current meta. That being said, She is a great jungler and top, because she has excellent sustain, very rare for a mage. this lets fill traditionally non-mage roles. (Also, the reason you see janna mid, is because of her fantastic disengage. she just laughs her ass off at assassins, and there's nothing they can do under extreme levels of play). So, they key to finding where people can go is looking at their kit, not their classification. Here's my take on each role:

ADC: sustained damage at a range. Cass is one of the few mages who fit in this area because of her E reset. ADCs just win the the high sustained catagory. Supports: anyone who generally doesn't need as much gold as other roles to be effective and has something in their kit that allows another player to get fed. This can be anything from CC like leona to shields and heals like sona, to extreme peel/poke like syndra and velkoz. Its all about feeding them early game, and protecting them late game. Mid: Generally people with the power to kill an ADC, this is the person that you want leveled up the fastest to have the biggest impact on the game, early. They can roam, they get buffs from jungle, they have straight power. Mages and assassins dominate here, because they have a shot at removing the other teams ADC or other fed person. Jungle: You need sustain of some sort (natural tankiness, regen, shield, heals, something), and anything to help with a gank. For most meta junglers, its a lot of CC, although terrifying burst is an option, with junglers like lee sin, who won't be insecing every gank. Top: Sustain. You're far away from dragon and bot lane, so you won't be getting much jungler attention normally. You have to be able to effectively lane 2v1, in case the other teams jungler camps top (best case scenario for the team, as it gives your team access to dragon for free). Top and jungle will traditionally have at least one, maybe both roles be tanky, to survive engages.

There's actually a character limit on here, so i am going to finish this up in a reply to this post. I apologize for spelling mistakes. Every champ name and league abbreviation gets a red line under it, so I'm sure i missed something.

usul12023 votes

{quoted}

  1. Champs like Katarina, Zed, LeBlanc, and Sejuani are banned in every draft game. Others are banned often enough to not bother learning to play for a new role (Volibear, Gragas, Wukong, Fizz, Udyr, Fiora, etc). This is frustrating to me because I bought Fiora, LeBlanc, and Katarina (and all their skins) because they look cool and filled roles I need to learn. Why doesn't Riot take action to tone some of these down to promote more ban diversity so we can play champs we paid for? I'm told that my experience of dying instantly when a Katarina or Zed is on the screen is normal, so can anyone explain why Tormented Soil gets nerfed while 1-shot-wonders are effectively unplayable in draft but still being sold?

The meta is whats going toe be banned, and right now the mid meta is the ability to utterly delete an ADC before a fight even finishes an engage. As the meta shifts those players will no longer be called OP, and will not be banned. we're shifting to banning more tanks with mumu, sej, and chogath already. Riot is doing what they can (slowly) but you can't just nerf everything that becomes meta, or the game would fall apart.

As for morgana, i haven't seen a single person yet who understands the nerfs, nor have i seen an explination. Its just kinda out of the blue, which is random for nerfs like that.

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  1. How do you know when to start roaming during laning?

You roam when you can afford the xp loss (your laner just backed, you're already up, or you have a really good opportunity) and another lane needs the help, and can be helped. Some games just aren't good for roaming. every lane is pushed, or all the lanes are just hella hard to gank, like kass top, or corki/sona bot, or kass/lebonk mid. it happens. You have to learn when its good to come help a lane, and when you are guaranteed a kill/burning a summoner.

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  1. How do you know when to chase instead of falling back and pushing objectives?

Chasing is fun and dandy, but it doesn't win games. It loses them. if you're a kassadin chasing a low health kogmaw, go for it. But remember, kilsl don't win games, objectives do. If you have an option between a kill and an objective, unless it's 500g shutdown gold, its generally better to go for objectives (not always, generally. 150g to the whole team is a lot more than 300 to one person though).

That being said, there's a few people you should never chase. Singed. Poppy. Kassadin. Lebonk (unless the last 2 have 0 mana. then you're okay). Reasons: singed: poison, slow, and flip. you'll never say in range of him, and your health just dissapears. his entire kit is made to beat someone chasing him. Poppy: her passive. oh shit her passive. You chase and poke and she never dies, then as soon as you're against a wall, she can get her whole comb off. you'll see her 1 game out of 200, but remember, DON'T CHASE. Kass: fucking blink. just. bleh. he'll hop walls and laugh at you all day. Lebonk is the same, except when you least expect it, she'll turn and 100-0 you.

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  1. When should I be joining teamfights instead of staying in lane to farm or guard towers? My instinct is to join when I see 4 v 4 or 5 v 4, but when I'm top lane, my teammates often tell me to just stay up there and push/farm.

Top lane generally stays and farms until they reach a team fighting power spike, or can exert quick pressure. If you see a 2v2, 3v3, or a 4v4, and have TP up, JOIN IN! An extra man is huge in early TFs, and if you come in and swing that fight, your team can pressure objectives big time. Other than that, push top, and deny their top farm. Top lane is generally the last lane to leave the laning phase, and thats just so that team fights have a tank engage and/or bruisers.

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  1. I love playing Irelia, but I have no clue how to not get rekt by everything from levels 1-5.

Remember how i said every champ has power spiked and dips? Her dip is until she gets that trinity force. She has a bad early game, its her price for being a mid game god, and a late game power. Play it safe, farm.

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  1. I love Syndra but have very mixed success with her in mid. I'm told that she is "off-meta" right now because assassins are dominating midlane. Hugging turret does nothing for me when Master Yi jumps out of jungle or Zed is lane opponent. All of her guides talk about how powerful she is without addressing my problems of perma-oom and being killed on sight.

I love syndra myself, so i have better tips here than irelia. She actually does decently against assassins, especially the predictable like yi and zed, heres why: when yi alpha strikes, or zed ults, you know where they're gonna land, 75 units behind you, after 2 seconds or 1.5 sec respectively, put down a Q, and the moment they're gonna land, hit E (make sure your bcak is to the turret) and run for the bushes, not your turret where they are. This will give them a few turret shots to the face, and will neglect their burst phases.

Ooming on her sucks. If you're having extreme trouble, i suggest starting 2 item 1004 and some pots for the mana regen. Generally though item 1056 is better. If you're last hitting, then you'll get more mana back, making the item better. Last hit well, and only use your balls for poke. Punish the hell out of assassins CSing. it isn't even always using abilities, abuse that AA range. syndra has a nice one.

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  1. Dying is bad, but I'm told that building defensive items is also bad. Using my example above where I'm killed on sight by a teleporting/invulnerable target I can't even attack, it makes sense to me to build a Ninja Tabi instead of Sorc Shoes. Or when I need mana and CDR to build the Frozen Heart. But what I hear over and over again is "build a Zohnya's and never build anything else with armor." Why, though?

This is 100% champ dependant. if you're a power top laner, or a support, or even someone with good base values, then grab that defensive item. Why? Because you bring more to the team alive with little power than dead with a lot. Chogath is a good example. he can be a terror built AP. however, if he's behind, he's gonna get killed before Q even goes off. So he'll build tank. Why is this still good? Because as long as he's alive, he's a walking CC nightmare. His Q is an AoE knockup, and his W's silence lasts for ages. It doesn't matter if he does little damage, the other team has to deal with him. Now lets look at say, zed. Zed brings no CC. He brings no peel. If he's not doing damage, there is no reason for him to be alive. So you're gonna be building damage no matter what, because there's nothing else for him to do. you'll build a defensive item like item 3102 to survive long enough to deal damage, but that's late game. most mages and assassins fit this catagory.

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  1. Some item builds seem really good to me, but I NEVER see anyone use them. For example, building both a Lich Bane and a Iceborn Gauntlet end game on Sona. Or building both an Archangel's Staff and a Manamune on a squishy, mana-hungry champ like Syndra. On paper, it looks to me like infinite skill spam, a massive shield, and a team-fight burst toggle. The question is this: If nobody is using it, should I assume it's terrible and not even try it out?

Always try your stupid build ideas out. always. just a bots game or something, but finding just one good thing is worth it. Now then, your examples: Gauntlet and Lich bane both get their power from the passive Spellblade, which is unique. you'd only get one of their passives (the damage portion specifically the other utility parts work, as LegendaryLemur pointed out) to work, and the other would fail to exists. i don't remember how it picks which though. Staff and manamune: You can only stack one tear at a time, and therefore getting both would take about 30 minutes. unless you're a hypercarry, its just not worth that time, and there aren't any hypercarries that need that.

I hit the character limit again -_- last few answers in a third post.

usul12022 votes

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  1. On support champs, I've done far better building Talisman of Ascension over Frost Queen because of the movement speed and on-use. Frost Queen is recommended on Sona, Karma, and Nami, but I do worse with it. Should I use what works or what I'm "supposed to" use?

No. NEVER. There are 3 major gold earning items, and each has a niche: item 3069 is passive. its for if you're sitting in lane, and letting your laner do the poke/farm game. It helps your team engage/followup late game. item 3092 is active, its for if you're poking like hell. I play soraka as a poke support, meaning i sit between melee and range minions and rain down Q's of fury upon the other ADC whenever they try and CS. Its not conventional soraka, but it is brutally effective. If you can keep the poke up without taking any CS, this item gives more gold. item 3097 is for champions that need the tankiness, and don't naturally have way to heal their adc. the passive on it is a rather large heal early game, and it can give nice sustain for weaker early adcs like koggles.

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  1. Of all the champs I've played, CDR and mana feel like the highest priorities to build. I've learned to not use spells on minions unless it means 3-6 last-hits and to poke conservatively. But when my opponent goes all-in on me, I'm oom after the fight and have to B regardless of whether I win. Yet advice and guides almost never prioritize mana sustain during laning, and I'm frowned upon for using Clarity. I can't figure out how to make this work. As a result, I've done far better playing support or poke champs (Sona, Morg, Cassio) and struggle badly playing mage against assassin. Advice?

This is all comfort-ability with the champion. especially with cass, cass ooms easy, but her E will allow you to regen fantastic amounts of mana pretty quickly. So, this is a big thing here. OOMing does not mean its time to leave lane actually. if you're against someone like zed or kat, who doesn't have mana issues, then perhaps you should, perhaps not. But remember, If you started dorens, you get mana back by CSing. So you can stay in lane and play passive, just getting CS and not giving the opponent a chance to engage while you regen. (note, during this time, act like their jungler is sitting in both your bushes, if you're top/bot then they're in the river bush and the bush at the edge of the lane. if you're mid, then both your river bushes. RESPECT THEIR POWER.) also, spell usage. learn to be efficient. On syndra. don't use your W early if you don't need to. that sucker is expensive early game, and really just doesn't bring much power. Same with cass's W. Its just not worth it unless its the only spell for the job. Look over your costs, and decide which spells are worth it early game, because not every spell is.

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  1. I like building Archangel Staff, Rod of Ages, or Liandry's because I can feel a difference in my survivability with the extra hp/shield. These items seem to be viewed as sub-par AP items that have their niches, not as defensive items with strong offense. Instead of building straight AP items and then building a strong defense item at the end, why not build balanced items throughout the game? In other words, if being a glass cannon means dying more, should a newer player build AP items with survival attributes to avoid feeding while still contributing to the team?

The reason its counted as "bad" on most champs is because you shouldn't need it. well, the first 2. I'm going to discuss them first, then liandrys' second, because its a whole different story. Unless you are A: a tanky mage (cho, elise, the like) you should not be in a vulnerable position in team fights. You should be able to eliminate that first person that comes for you before they do a massive amount of damage. Zhonnyas is the exception, because of the assassin meta. instead of just hoping you have enough defense to live an assassins burst (as with the 2 items you listed), zhonnyas allows you to negate it 100%, making it incredibly powerful defensively. When you're learning a champ, rod of ages is wonderful. It gives you an incredible amount of laning sustain on any champ in the game, and allows you to play a little less safe than you ought to. however, as you get better, the bonus AP you get from other items is just flat better. If you don't need the survivability, then get more power.

Now, liandrys. This item is weird. item 3136 is an amazing item. Its so incredibly cheap for its stats, that anyone who benefits from early pen should rush it. However, lets look at what you get from upgrading it. 25 AP, 100 health, NO MORE PEN, and a DoT thats only good against health stackers, something that isn't viable until late game. all for a whopping 1415 gold, almost as much as the haunting guise itself. That's just not very good until late game when you'll be burning down a sion/sejuani. The penetration that guise gives is incredible early game. The DoT that liandries gives is useless for most champions early game. there are exceptions. Malzahar rushes this item because of how utterly beautifully is synergizes with his space aids. Velkoz can rush it against a tanky opponnent, although i don't suggest it unless you have a random sion mid, or an opposing leona support. Rushing a haunting is viable on everyone with awesome base damage values (vel, malz, pentarina, the like) but liandrys is a late game upgrade when the other teams tank starts being a pain in team fights.

That's as much as I've got for your main questions. if you have anything else, ask here, or add me in game. If you wanna play a few games so i can watch your cass or syndra or whatever I'd be happy too, I've got a decent amount of spare time now that I'm home from uni for the summer.

LegendaryLemur2 votes

{quoted} Gauntlet and Lich bane both get their power from the passive Spellblade, which is unique. you'd only get one of their passives to work, and the other would fail to exists.

This is actually incorrect. With spellblade passives, the single target damage from lichbane/trinity force overrides the single target proc from iceborn but the aoe slow from iceborn (and i think the aoe damage also) still procs.

MINOR EDIT above because after checking some sources i'm not 100% sure about the damage part from iceborn

usul12022 votes

Sorry, i meant the damage itself, yes. The character limit was annoying me, and i was trimming in an attempt to not have a 3rd post. Which i failed. I guess i trimmed a bit much, and it is ambiguous. Will fix.

T RexHasTinyArms2 votes

General: The first is in part just experience. If you play the match up and champ you're on frequently you will know better. I play a lot of Heimerdinger and can tell you when I will win or lose a fight w/ him better than I can with any other champ. He also has a 4% pick rate so a lot of people aren't used to him and I get kills on jungle or my lane opponent bc they misjudge the amount that they can do vs what I can do. The last part would be learning what changes the damage. I generally look at what my opponent's items are every time they leave and come back. I do a lot less to Irelia as an AP champ if she has negatron cloak than if she has sheen. Similarly I win a lot of 2v1s when I get ganked bc people think they can kill me and I take heal instead of ignite pretty often so when they dive and can't kill me I can turn it around pretty often.

This is more opinion. I think any ADC that complains the support took the kill is a bad player. I'll hand it over if I'm on a utility champ and KNOW they have it, but if I'm Annie I run ignite support and get tons of kills. The lane is still dead so my ADC gets an advantage (albeit a smaller one for assist than kill) and when I roam people expect me to do less damage then I do since they think I'll be poorer and have less stats than I do. Also anytime we could get a tower if we shoved then I don't care who gets the CS as long as we get the tower, bc it makes it easier to cs when I go back to lane after buying.

Meta:

  1. ADC is the highest sustained damage, while you could argue that an AP champ would be better in that case, 90% of games won't be ALL AD, and if they are it's an issue since stacking armor will wreck your team. Meta is generally meta since it is what is strongest IN GENERAL right then. Specific situations can justify other stuff though, like vlad is strong in the current tank meta bc there aren't people to burst him down and he scales well to do sustained damage late game. If the enemy picked two assassins already though he isn't a good pick bc meta is overall picture, not that particular game.

  2. People in low elo are frequently bad at the game. Don't mind it and work on improving. I play Heimerdinger top and people complain sometimes, but he's really good there and has a lot of positive match ups. Pro players play Morgana top sometimes bc she has great wave clear and sustain, plus black shield and binding can save her in ganks pretty well. People rage about stuff they aren't used to or don't understand, but if you have a reason for going somewhere then it is probably a good option if you understand why and it will be strong.

  3. Usually it's the strength of the champ in respective role. Kayle can play support, but other supports may be stronger at the job she does, while the same isn't true for mid/top or something. However, if you're stronger w/ that champ bc you play them better than the other champs that do the same job, go w/ the one you play better and tell your team that. Most people are in favor of you playing something you're stronger w/ bc you understand them, and if you can explain what the strengths and weaknesses of a champ in a particular role are then people will trust you more. Basically just know why you're doing something if you do it.

  4. Champs that are strong rotate. Also Zed, Kat, and other assassins are meant to delete people. Often the people who say it was based on the champ played the match up wrong. I love playing vs assassins in ranked bc Heimer needs people to come to him. When I run exhaust and drop it on an assassin as they come at me it is 95% a free kill if I can land my stun bc even if they live through the stun and damage that comes at them, they didn't deal enough to me on their first burst that they can kill me out of the stun.

Strat:

The answer to all is experience. If every game you focus on "was that the right choice" eventually it will become second nature. I make decent roams now, bc I failed at them a whole lot before. Now I can judge mostly accurately if the minion wave is pushing right for the enemy to still be pushed up when I get there or if they will be pushed in when I get there bc the wave bounced off tower. Also any time you kill the opponent, look for dragon, tower, or a roam. Chasing depends on the game, how good is your champ at it, how slippery is theirs, do you have vision or are you risking walking into their team. If you are for sure able to get an objective go for the objective. If it is the jungle and you just killed the rest of them, it's probably worth chasing him while your team gets dragon or baron, even if you don't get the kill. That way he can't try to steal. Just try and think of what you give up and what the possible rewards or consequences are and you'll start making better decisions.

Champs:

Find streamers/youtube that focuses on that champ. Ireliacarriesu (I think that's who it is) is a really good Irelia who duos w/ Annie Bot (awesome annie main) sometimes and is probably a good person to watch. Also search How to top lane as a youtube search and you'll find a channel that has a ton of useful stuff and I think he's an irelia main too. I watch phasekiller on GBKTV on twitch bc he plays mostly Heimer and watching him I was able to see a lot of the little stuff he does and try it out. Some worked for me, some didn't, but I got way better.

Build:

This is another spot that "why am I doing this?" is more important than any advice I could give. If I play a champ w/ utility then building tanky isn't bad at all bc I can tank and be useful. If I'm a high damage champ w/ no utility/cc then tank items just make me easy to ignore. I think you're on the right track w/ support items, go w/ what works for you. You can try and learn the other style, but if you don't want to and win w/ different items you don't have to. I like lucidity boots over sorc boots on heimer and lots of people would tell me I'm wrong bc less damage is bad on a mage and all. However, I'd much rather have more turrets to place bc I'm capped on CDR and can rotate to other lanes frequently and have 3 turrets to drop and help push towers.

Hope that was somewhat helpful. GL learning, and remember, it's not so much about what you should do, but having a reason why you want to do it.

Icestar11861 votes

GENERAL

  1. How can I get a better idea of my strength versus an opponent? For example, I see Irelia at 10% hp, and I go for the kill as Sona at 100% hp. I hit her 4 times, but I die first. Obviously, I misjudged the situation, but at super low hp, it seemed like a good opportunity! How do you learn to stop making this mistake with various champ matchups?

This comes as you learn what each champion's kit can do. A low health Irelia (her stun only triggers if her %hp is lower) or Olaf (higher attack speed at low hp) is much more dangerous than a low health Soraka, for example.

  1. As support, what are the rules/etiquette on leaving farm for your ADC versus accomplishing objectives? Specifically, how do you learn to balance pushing lane/turret without CS? Or helping secure champ kills without KS? How do you judge what kills are "guaranteed" ADC feed when it never feels like any kill is guaranteed?

Personally, I take CS only when the ADC isn't there, or I have Relic Shield charges. Knowing what kills are guaranteed requires practice and depends on the matchup. Personally, I think a KS is better than a missed opportunity, although you will eventually be able to tell when to help and when not.

META

  1. I don't understand the reasons for fixed lane roles. For example, let's say your team picks Trynd top, Jayce mid, Vi jg, and Janna sup. I'm left with ADC, but the whole rest of the team picked physical dps. I understand the meta behind ADC, but in a situation like this it makes sense to pick a high-scaling magic champ like Cassio. She scales super well with farm, has good poke, and forcing magic resist makes the whole rest of your team more effective. Why is this the wrong decision?

It isn't really a wrong decision, but people may not be used to supporting a Cassiopeia instead of an ADC. Also, people get pretty anal about the meta.

  1. I've done extremely well taking Morgana top, but I get called a troll for it sometimes. It's easy to push the lane hard and get lots of minion damage on a turret while avoiding ganks and getting great poke. If you already have a tanky jg and fighter/tank support, why would this be a bad choice if the results are good? Likewise, I feel like I'd do pretty well as Karma in mid, but I'm told she's bot-only.

It isn't a bad choice. People are just anal about the meta.

  1. I frequently get comments when picking a champ that "X is only for Y role right now." For example, Kayle support or Elise....anywhere on the map. Guides are not helpful here (eg the highest-rated Janna guide I found was AP midlaner). How am I supposed to know which champs can go where, which are off-meta hipster picks, and which are fail/troll picks? Everyone says Elise is jg-only (and still godawful). Riot says Elise is a mage, mages go allegedly go mid, so why can't Elise go mid? I'm told Kayle is mid-only. Riot says Kayle is a support, supports go bot, so why can't Kayle go bot? Help!

Any champion can theoretically go anywhere. Supports can often go top or mid, Nautilis used to be a jungler, and Gragas used to be built as a mage before Riot changed his scalings. I personally consider anything off-meta that has a chance of working to still be a decent pick. In my opinion, a troll pick is something like AP Yasuo, AP Pantheon, Tank Vayne, etc. In response to your questions about Kayle and Elise, Kayle can do just about anything with the right build (although she most often goes mid, support, or jungle), and Elise is able to go top, jungle, or maybe mid, although I agree that she is a slightly weaker pick in this meta.

  1. Champs like Katarina, Zed, LeBlanc, and Sejuani are banned in every draft game. Others are banned often enough to not bother learning to play for a new role (Volibear, Gragas, Wukong, Fizz, Udyr, Fiora, etc). This is frustrating to me because I bought Fiora, LeBlanc, and Katarina (and all their skins) because they look cool and filled roles I need to learn. Why doesn't Riot take action to tone some of these down to promote more ban diversity so we can play champs we paid for? I'm told that my experience of dying instantly when a Katarina or Zed is on the screen is normal, so can anyone explain why Tormented Soil gets nerfed while 1-shot-wonders are effectively unplayable in draft but still being sold?

Riot will get to them eventually. Also, as you move up in rank, people ban assassins a bit less often, I think. Also, it is inherent in the system to have good champions and bad ones, and people ban the best ones so they don't have to play against them.

STRATEGY

  1. How do you know when to start roaming during laning?

If all else fails, start when your opponent does. I've heard that it should be when one of the towers goes down.

  1. How do you know when to chase instead of falling back and pushing objectives?

The more vision you have of where they are headed and the more mobility you have, the better it is to chase. If they could be baiting you, you may want to back off, and the same goes for champions who have more mobility and/or cc than you.

  1. When should I be joining teamfights instead of staying in lane to farm or guard towers? My instinct is to join when I see 4 v 4 or 5 v 4, but when I'm top lane, my teammates often tell me to just stay up there and push/farm.

If your team can hold 4v5, splitpushing is a good idea, as it creates more pressure. If they need the help, help. In general, if you are a mid or ADC, you need to be there for teamfights for the damage output, but if you are a bruiser you can splitpush more. A high-cc, low damage initiator tank, though, needs to be there to start the teamfights. It depends a lot on your role.

CHAMP-SPECIFIC QUESTIONS

  1. I love playing Irelia, but I have no clue how to not get rekt by everything from levels 1-5.

Go Q->W->E then max W if ahead and E if behind. (Then max the other one.) Rush trinity force and save your E for when they have more health than you or when the slow will guarantee a kill. Try to farm until level 3 or 4.

  1. I love Syndra but have very mixed success with her in mid. I'm told that she is "off-meta" right now because assassins are dominating midlane. Hugging turret does nothing for me when Master Yi jumps out of jungle or Zed is lane opponent. All of her guides talk about how powerful she is without addressing my problems of perma-oom and being killed on sight.

I don't play mages much, but I would say try not to spam skills too much and buy a mana regen item. Also, assassins are countered by tanks, which are also popular. Hold out for the teamfight phase and let the tanks lock them down.

BUILDING

  1. Dying is bad, but I'm told that building defensive items is also bad. Using my example above where I'm killed on sight by a teleporting/invulnerable target I can't even attack, it makes sense to me to build a Ninja Tabi instead of Sorc Shoes. Or when I need mana and CDR to build the Frozen Heart. But what I hear over and over again is "build a Zohnya's and never build anything else with armor." Why, though?

On a midlaner, you typically prioritize damage, with some mana regen, cdr, and maybe Zhonya's Hourglass or Abyssal Scepter. Typically, when you are behind (in any role), you should build the most important items (on a mid, that would be damage), play safe, and wait for the teamfight phase. A midlaner's best defense is positioning well, instead of sacrificing burst potential to build defense. Let your tank do the tanking.

  1. Some item builds seem really good to me, but I NEVER see anyone use them. For example, building both a Lich Bane and a Iceborn Gauntlet end game on Sona. Or building both an Archangel's Staff and a Manamune on a squishy, mana-hungry champ like Syndra. On paper, it looks to me like infinite skill spam, a massive shield, and a team-fight burst toggle. The question is this: If nobody is using it, should I assume it's terrible and not even try it out?

Lich Bane and Iceborn Gauntlet don't stack their buffs, and Manamune provides AD instead of AP (Syndra needs AP) and it is unlikely that you will fully stack both. On paper it seems good, but other options are better. However, there are certainly unconventional builds that are in fact strong. (Personally, I like taking challenging smite on Irelia top). Experiment, but learn why people do what they do first.

  1. On support champs, I've done far better building Talisman of Ascension over Frost Queen because of the movement speed and on-use. Frost Queen is recommended on Sona, Karma, and Nami, but I do worse with it. Should I use what works or what I'm "supposed to" use?

What works is, by definition, what you're supposed to use.

  1. Of all the champs I've played, CDR and mana feel like the highest priorities to build. I've learned to not use spells on minions unless it means 3-6 last-hits and to poke conservatively. But when my opponent goes all-in on me, I'm oom after the fight and have to B regardless of whether I win. Yet advice and guides almost never prioritize mana sustain during laning, and I'm frowned upon for using Clarity. I can't figure out how to make this work. As a result, I've done far better playing support or poke champs (Sona, Morg, Cassio) and struggle badly playing mage against assassin. Advice?

Its fine if you have to recall after an all-in. A mana sustain item and some mana potions are usually enough if you can avoid spamming too many spells.

  1. I like building Archangel Staff, Rod of Ages, or Liandry's because I can feel a difference in my survivability with the extra hp/shield. These items seem to be viewed as sub-par AP items that have their niches, not as defensive items with strong offense. Instead of building straight AP items and then building a strong defense item at the end, why not build balanced items throughout the game? In other words, if being a glass cannon means dying more, should a newer player build AP items with survival attributes to avoid feeding while still contributing to the team?

Rod of Ages and Archangel's Staff are very good picks. Rylai's and Liandry's are best on an "old school mage" like Brand, Lissandra, or Cassiopeia, or a tanky AP champion like Swain, Rumble, or AP Cho'gath.

Vekkna1 votes

SO MUCH GREAT INFORMATION HERE!!

It's taken me a little while to read through and apply it all, but it has really helped me a lot in my last few games. I had a godawful losing streak playing Cassi and decided to really study up and write "reminder notes" to glance at throughout the game. The results last night felt like a huge step in the right direction. Here's what I changed, and I welcome comments/feedback:

  1. Wave Control: I think my #1 biggest noob error was overextending and not knowing how to NOT overextend. My first decent champ was Morgana because she's built for wave-clear and has tools to get her ass out of the fire when in gank territory. In other words, her kit let me make noob errors without being overly punished for them.

It honestly never even occurred to me to NOT attack minions or that I could control the pace of the clear to stay in a safer place in lane. Past middle of river is too risky, but I don't want tower killing minions, either. What I did exactly was this:

a) Run in circles and wait for minions to get a creep to last-hit. b) Too close to tower? Stand away from minion pack so enemy ability poke doesn't push lane. c) Too close to passing river? Stand on top of minion pack so enemy ability poke pushes you back to the safe zone. d) The same in reverse but accounting for ganks. If enemy is overextended and is standing in their minion pack, AA poke if you can rely on jg to help gank. And vice versa with downing tower. e) Keeping as many of their minions up as possible makes it harder for them to last-hit, especially if they have more than 6 minions and aren't used to the change of kill pace. If you speed-clear a wave, enemy is getting 90-100% CS.

On Cassi, the biggest change I made was dropping W behind the enemy minion pack (instead of under it) to get a little damage on enemy champ and force them into E poke range. It put them in "reaction mode" and had impact on their CS.

On Syndra, I focused on using W > R > E to maximize damage in duels and give me time to secure a kill with Q > W/AA or get away if the fight was un-winnable. I had previously been going Q > E > R and then chasing to try and hit with W. You can guess how well that worked out.

  1. Building for Sustain/Lane Control: A big problem on Syndra and Cassi was having to go back because I NEEDED to go back for either mana or hp (usually both)...or because I was dead. Last night I decided to run Flash/Clarity and start with a mana gem and 2 hp pots instead of Doran's. Doran's is a lot of stats to give up early, but the trade off was huge in terms of sustain and poke. The extra 200 starting mana plus the extra 100 per Clarity use is essentially doubling your available mana before first recall. I found that this gave me more latitude to punish enemy positioning errors and secure kills when the jg could gank. The end result was that I could poke the enemy into recall, clear the wave, have enough time to see what the enemy built, recall, buy, and get back to lane before they got to tower.

I also decided to go for a Hextech Revolver early. If you start with the mana gem, upgrading to Tear is only like 320 gold. Depending on what the enemy builds, I'll pick up the Revolver on first or second recall. It saved me a LOT of gold throughout the game, gave me far more sustain in lane, and let me push lanes late game instead of having to recall for hp.

  1. Rushing Isn't Always Better: Early on, I would either rush a pre-selected item if we were doing alright and buy whatever I could afford if I was dying a lot. This time I tried to anticipate what I would need earlier on based on their team comp and how the lanes were going. For example, if they have an AP mid and an AP jungle, I would go for Chalice instead of Tear. If I'm wrecking mid and our bot's falling behind, I get started building Zhonya's.

In other words, there are a lot of situations where it's fine to sit on a Chalice for a while and go back to building your AP items. Last night I sat on a Tear and the armor part of Zhonya's for quite a while because it was better to go for the Rabadon's or because their team started building MR. At 130 armor with 12-20% spellvamp, I wasn't getting blown up fast enough that finishing Zhonya's was the best choice.

  1. On Building Defense: So I started to realize that building proper defense as a mage isn't about building stronger items reactively so much as it's about building better items early enough to make a difference. I touched on this in #3. Instead of buying a Frozen Heart based on my death recap, I started thinking about my purchase order during draft pick and buying them earlier.

I think this worked for a few reasons. First, it helped me not feed and get behind. Second, if my enemy laner reacted by buying spell pen earlier, it can slow their roaming threat and snowball. If they sink almost 1500 gold into a Guise asap, they're going to be ganking with 55 less AP than if they had saved a little more and gotten a Needlessly Large Rod. I assume this is a net benefit to the team.

  1. On Roaming: In my losing steak with Cassi, I won my lane almost every game. I don't see her played very often, but I remember one game early on where I played support and the enemy Cassi mid would poke our mid into a recall and start griefing bot. It was kind of a nightmare.

I think part of the issue in the losing-streak was that the other side didn't care about losing lane when they assumed they didn't have to worry about me. By the time I left lane, we were teamfighting, but the other team had fed 2 v 1 mid and 3/4 v 2 bot enough times that it didn't matter.

So what I decided to do was focus on early poking and occasionally jump out of river on an overextended enemy top or bot. Even if we didn't get the kill, they were on notice that the lane wasn't going to be a free push.

  1. The Difference a Good JG Makes: My husband has been doing pretty great with Fiddlesticks jungle, and having the jungler playing in the same room makes all the difference in the world. First off, he can solo the dragon at level 3 or 4. We can actually coordinate ganks in lane and help each other with sight. Another fun thing we realized is that Cassi and Fiddles have really great synergy since my ult covers the delay on his ult. That said, we're still working out the kinks on when to disengage; it's a work in progress.

Thanks to everyone for all the answers and advice! I learned a ton of important information that I could put into practice, and I hope to see the difference it makes on other champs and roles as well.

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