Early Jungle Strat

Vekkna·Jun 16, 2015·1 votes·1,295 views

I've had zero success at jungling, and part of that is the 1-5 decisions you have to make regarding:

Upgrading knife - do you recall asap at 475 gold to get more out of your camps, or is it too much lost time in early game? Should you wait until you have enough extra to buy a pink, a green, and 2 more pots?
Buying boots - I feel like I need them asap, but I feel like I need a small offensive item to gank
Buying pots - Never leave base without them? How many?
Buying wards - Early and often, but they feel so easy to skip when I feel behind all the time
Clearing camps - (blue side) Say you just pulled a gromp at level 3. Top goes all-in and is chasing your laner under turret. It's a favorable gank. If you finish gromp, you'll be too low to do it safely. Kill frog or risk gank?
Ganking - Everything I read says to start ganking top at level 2-3 (Evelynn) and mid 3-5. Ganking with no boots, no pots, no wards, and no upgraded knife feels like a suicide mission. If I but first, there's usually a bigger level difference. Advice?

On another topic, I generally like champs that are ranged and don't look like monsters or brutes. There seem to be a dearth of champs I like capable of jungling. Are there any mage-type junglers that won't force an insta-dodge from teammates? I saw that Zyra used to have jungle builds. I tried her and Teemo in bot games and cleared camps well, but it's been nothing but dodge-bait in normals.

14 Comments

GundayMondayJun 16, 20152 votes

Depends on the champ and strat you're playing. Do you have trouble clearing camps quickly? , grab an early . Need gold? Grab the upgrade early since you get an extra 15g per large minion kill. Do you need to apply early pressure to win the game? , then gank gank gank.
Depends on champ, strategy, and how fast the enemy team is. Some junglers will rush to be super gank heavy. Others will prioritize late game builds so they can win team fights. Both are correct decisions depending on the situation.
At least one always. Gives you a worth of health for 35g.
Will the ward get you an objective or stop your team from dying? Buy it. Do you have 100 extra gold? Buy it.
Depends. Where's the enemy jungler? What summoner spells are up/down? How much damage do you have? How much health does the enemy laner have? How is the lane pushing? Will you give up a dragon if you show top? All these things matter.
Ganking is an art. You need to know where the enemy jungler is, where the enemy team is, and if you can win 2v1, 2v2, 2v3, etc. Only gank if it will put your team ahead, otherwise farm. Also realize that since every guide is saying to do a thing, that players will probably expect it. So it may not be worth your while if you're walking over wards used to prevent obvious strategies.

There are master players that run teemo jungle. Kayle can also work, but it's a little tricky since the camps reset sooner now.

My $0.02.

VekknaJun 16, 20151 votes

Yeah, I looked at the jg Teemo guides from those players, and it made a lot of sense. Being able to put mushrooms in jungle lanes all game long seems like a great way to foil gank attempts, get vision, punish invades, and put some fear into roaming squishy assassins (Kat, Ahri, LB) or a Bard. Problem is that the 5 normal games I tried to pick him all ended in a champ select dodge.

Almost all of the junglers are champs I thematically just hate. Like Aatrox Gragas Hecarim JarvanIV Jax Khazix Malphite RekSai Skarner Sion MonkeyKing Udyr : it's just a big collection of monsters, brutes, and thugs.

The cool ones I actually like are:

Elise Evelynn Sejuani Shyvana : The problem with these ladies is that they're either so terrible they cannot be played or they are so good that they cannot be a main pick.

I also like surprise party Fiddlesticks . He's sort of monster-ish, but he's silly and hilarious. But he doesn't have any acceptable roles other than jungle. If I spend the time to learn and practice a champ and the money to buy them, I want to be able to use them for something other than games where I'm last pick.

So I tried jungling with Fiora and Irelia . It didn't end well. Falling behind on either of these two is a major reverse snowball, and pre-6 ganks were too slow and risky.

Diana really should be the perfect pick for me, but I'm inexplicably terrible at her.

Could any of these work without being troll/auto-dodge? Bard Leona Lulu Gnar Quinn Shyvana Vladimir Azir Cassiopeia Lissandra Orianna Zyra

BluePolarizerJun 16, 20151 votes

XinZhao MasterYi Fiddlesticks LeeSin Shyvana are brutes or thugs?

DrathTurtle314Jun 16, 20151 votes

I've recently picked up Shyvana jungle. In the three games I've played with her, in 2 of them I was able to kill the enemy jungler once and then prevent him from ever setting foot in his jungle again. In the other one, I died once to an invade(I invaded and died) and could never recover from that.(these were all normals)

Tips for shyvana jungle, YOU WILL NEVER BE IN A LANE BEFORE 20 MINUTES. Make sure your lanes know this. With luck, you will have a 50 or so CS lead on the enemy jungler and a couple of kills on them by that time. Both jungles are yours. All four quadrants of the map belong to you. Make sure you know that, make your enemy know that. Wards are your best friend. I would even go as far as to suggest buying sightstone after machete upgrade and boots. She is the only jungler(and I play nunu) that I would consider getting grey smite on item 3711 , but usually I get red item 3715 for the 1v1's with the enemy jungler. This is all based on 3 games, 1 of which was horrible, so don't take everything 100%, but this is what I did in my successful games. Also, if you are taking my advice, itemize strictly against their jungler early.

Gnar and Leona I've heard of, but I haven't tried. I'd love to see lulu though, since she can do literally everything else in the game(machine gun lulu ADC, lulu support, top, mid). Cass I've tried, too squishy and mana hungry, no reliable way to gank. Bard clears are really slow, but if you get to lvl 3 just go ham on ganking it could work, only farm your buffs and smite camps for bonuses(this is hyperbole, you do want to farm, but if a gank is available take it over farm). The others I haven't seen or tried, so you'd have to test and let me know.

Their JunglerJun 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I've recently picked up jungle. In the three games I've played with her, in 2 of them I was able to kill the enemy jungler once and then prevent him from ever setting foot in his jungle again. In the other one, I died once to an invade(I invaded and died) and could never recover from that.(these were all normals)

Tips for shyvana jungle, YOU WILL NEVER BE IN A LANE BEFORE 20 MINUTES. Make sure your lanes know this. With luck, you will have a 50 or so CS lead on the enemy jungler and a couple of kills on them by that time. Both jungles are yours. All four quadrants of the map belong to you. Make sure you know that, make your enemy know that. Wards are your best friend. I would even go as far as to suggest buying sightstone after machete upgrade and boots. She is the only jungler(and I play nunu) that I would consider getting grey smite on, but usually I get red for the 1v1's with the enemy jungler. This is all based on 3 games, 1 of which was horrible, so don't take everything 100%, but this is what I did in my successful games. Also, if you are taking my advice, itemize strictly against their jungler early.

Gnar and Leona I've heard of, but I haven't tried. I'd love to see lulu though, since she can do literally everything else in the game(machine gun lulu ADC, lulu support, top, mid). Cass I've tried, too squishy and mana hungry, no reliable way to gank. Bard clears are really slow, but if you get to lvl 3 just go ham on ganking it could work, only farm your buffs and smite camps for bonuses(this is hyperbole, you do want to farm, but if a gank is available take it over farm). The others I haven't seen or tried, so you'd have to test and let me know.

That 20 minutes before a lane is not true at all. Maybe if all your opponents farm under tower during those 20 minutes. But you should never pass up a ganking opportunity even if you have weak ganks pre 6.

NorthernDruidJun 16, 20151 votes

Jungle Leona is a thing.

We're still waiting for her Dark Horse segment.

Especially after Cinderhulk it should be obvious that it can be done.

But there was a topic way back at the beginning of the season, with Challenging Smite - Devourer enchant, Wit's End and Iceborn Gauntlet as core.

It looked really great, I just haven't gotten to try it yet.

GundayMondayJun 17, 20151 votes

Diana is about to get a huge buff when they change the AP jungle item. Worth learning her.

Shyvanna might be sleeper OP now that she got another buff to her W (Clear speeds are INSANELY fast now).

The rest aren't really jungleable (that's a word right?). They're either to slow clearwise, or get beat up by the brutal jungle creeps early to the point where other junglers are just better.

Recommend learning Eve, Fid, Diana, and Shyvanna if you're looking for champs to play that are good, but won't be banned every game.

AyRe CoNteMpTJun 16, 20152 votes

this depends highly on your champion and on what you are planning to do. i VERY MUCH prefer to see the jungle as a lane, this means, my main objective is the enemy jungler as my lane opponent. i want to invade him, i want to countergank him once im stronger and i want to push him out of his jungle, securing vision for my team.

for that, i like to play junglers who farm fast and are good duelists. with that, i can always farm up nicely even if the game isnt going so well (for example, you play pantheon and you find no gankable lane -> enjoy losing the game by your own pick). dueling is very important because if you cant duel, you cant go into the enemy jungle alone. the advantage of strong duelists is that they build pressure easily. if i go somewhere and there is an enemy, he needs to either die, run away or call for help. by calling for help, i free up my allies to push towers, get farm or even come to 2on2 with me. or i just take some of his camps and leave while warding. im strong, feels good.

to answer your question: i have a couple of different jungle routs and first-back-times depending on the enemy jungle and the lane matchups. if i can, i prefer doing a full clear including one crab for a total of 950 gold, thus being able to upgrade my machete, buy one dagger and two potions and do another full clear very fast. now i go into the enemy jungle and if he jungled fast too, he will be level 5 while im one camp away from 6. if i can now take one of his camps, im level 6 and can either start ganking strong or, preferably, stay in his jungle and beat my laner directly.

boots are really good and even mandatory on some junglers. you could say, the more your champion relies on ganking pre6, the more important boots are. since by level 6, you will basically have the spare gold for them for sure, you dont need to think about it anymore. depending on how my first clear went and what the matchups are, i sometimes go for upgraded machete, boots, pots and wards too. but having the extra DPS for clearing is prefered.
indeed. USUALLY you could say, carry as many healpots as possible. this goes for ALL champions in all roles. if you have some spare gold, pour it into healingpotions. i try carrying 2-5 of them at all times until full build. and always remember, drink one while dueling or ganking. also, if you play a mana champion, try having 1-2 mana potions around too. doesnt hurt but can help alot. like, i wouldnt miss out on fully upgrading my jungle item, but i would certainly miss out on buying a second longsword on the way to it just to get in some potions if i otherwise couldnt. pots are GOOD, use them.
generally speaking, the bigger your power is over the enemy jungler, the less wards you need. the more behind you are, the more wards you need. if you feel like you got fucked hard by an early invade or some failed ganks while your enemy jungler just farmed up and got off 1-2 good ganks, get a sightstone. viable on basically any jungler, even shaco. just get that thing, it DOES bring back your winrate by quite a bit if you are behind.

but usually if my farming goes well and i become strong, i only buy a few wards, put them in really sweet positions i couldnt reach if i was behind (like enemy wraith-brush, my favorite) including a pink (keep up a pink at all times. the more behind you are, the deeper you put it into either his or your jungle. only put it near the river if you actually can defend it.)

also depending on your champion. with my champs, i wont go and help. i wll do my clear, recall and do my second clear 95% of the time. like only if i am 100% absolutely certain that i can just walk up to the lane and grab a free kill in 2 seconds, then i will go out of my way to gank some noob. but if i have to depend on my laner to make that kill or have to care of the enemy jungler being near, i wont risk it.

ALWAYS REMEMBER

if you make a play and it doesnt work, you know it sucked. but if you make a play and it works, you dont know it was good. it might have been a very bad play that just happened to work this one time but the next 47 times it will backfire and lose you the game. this means you should only make COMPLETELY CLEAN PLAYS that have no risk of backfiring and only a slight chance of success. if you gank only once every 3 minutes but successfully and farm up hard during the meantime, you will be about double the power of your enemy jungler who ganked 3 times a minute but he is only 3:0 after 10 minutes. it takes me about 15 seconds to clear a camp and reach the next one (before one item completed), this means if i gank between level 5 and 6, i very well lose about 4 camps which would be an additional level and the same gold as the gank.

despite common belief, ganking isnt an art. its a craft. you cant gamble on a gank working and you cant artistically make it work with amazing skill and insec kicks. you can only make it clean and with full focus and all power and resources you can muster and only when you have those resources, and then you can go back to your jungle and become even stronger. and then you can go and do it clean again. and if there is no opportunity for a clean gank, im always glad i picked a good farming jungler so i can get strong without depending on my laners and then at lvl 9+ i can still be of big impact even if im 0/0/0

PS: i mainly play shyvana, nocturne and sometimes tryndamere in the jungle.

VekknaJun 16, 20151 votes

So the problem I have, really, is that the priorities between buy, gank, and farm are dependent on champ select and matchup. And I don't know my champ or their champ well enough to know how to prioritize.

JG so hard.

AyRe CoNteMpTJun 16, 20151 votes

its very simple. you pick a champion and see how fast and safe he can do his first clear (full clear reaching level 4 or half+1 clear reaching lvl 3,5, going back and then doing the second clear to lvl 5).

you do that with the best possible early jungle clear runes, and if he can clear reasonably well, you can take this jungler as a stable pick and build a strategy around him and your playstyle. there is no rule on when and where to gank, you have to build your strategie yourself.

sure you might be a beginner and dont know about all champs and stuff, but thats how developing a strategy goes. you take all information YOU CURRENTLY HAVE and build something around it, and when you achieve new information, possibly by defeat, you implement that into your strategy to upgrade it and cover your weaknesses. this takes time and effort and setbacks but thats why you climb from bronze 5 to bronze 4 and not from bronze 5 to challenger. because as your strategies develop, your rank does too. and since selfmade skill (or just: skill) takes time, so does your climbing.

just pick your favorite champion and make that champion work in the jungle took me about 500 games for pantheon and then i felt that the one thing i actually wanted to do is not really possible with pantheon, so i stopped playing him. and thats after 500 games! tho i have to say i was quite stubborn for a while.

what im saying is that its not your favorite champion that can do what you think is best to do, but its your favorite champion through which you will learn what is best to do.

Their JunglerJun 16, 20151 votes

Here are some standard paths:

Blue side:

Krugs with leash (smite), red, then wolves or wraiths with smite again. Wolves are a bit easier to kill IMO, but wraits are closer so they are faster. Then back or keep going dependign on your health. Do blue immediately after. You can also skip wraiths/wolves and go straight blue. If you did wraiths or wolves you will be nearly level 4 after killing blue. You can kill scuttle crab at top side or gromp to level up, or you can also gank. Early ganks can get your first blood easily because if you clear correctly you will be equal at level 3/4 with the laners, so the gank is easier. Obviously the cs differential grows as the game progresses so they will outlevel you, which is normal.

If you go krugs red blue, you will have barely enough to buy your jungle item and maybe a pot. Try doing wolves or crab if you have the health. This is what my ideal first back looks like:

Just clearing camps: item 3715 (or any jungle upgrade) item 2044 item 2003 , usually 1 or 2.

If I clear all the camps (which some champs are able to do) or get a kill in a gank opportunity:

item 2003 item 1001 item 2044 item 3715

VekknaJun 16, 20151 votes

Since leashes aren't guaranteed in solo, I've usually started wolves > blue > birds > rocks > red. Recall to upgrade knife and get whatever else I can. During recall, check status of mid and top. Coordinate bait/vision if gank is possible, then head to either mid or top.

After either gank or push, I roll back through frog > wolves > bird > rocks. Pink at red. Check in with bot, drop a green if vision is lacking. Kill crab if mid and bot are holding, then check status for dragon. Kill dragon if we can, recall to buy boots and a component to knife enchant.

Does this sound like a decent order? I know it's better to start with frog or rocks, but if there's no leash or if they fuck up the leash it's super easy to take tons of damage from either of them and potentially leave you still at level 1.

The problem is that without boots this takes forever. You can be at the frog and still not be able to get down to lane in time for a gank.

RandomoniumJun 17, 20151 votes

I've done a lot of custom games where I just practice my jungle routes and with most champions it is typically better in the long run to back as soon as you get enough gold to upgrade your machete. If you back after 3 camps you should always have enough gold. The reason for this is all upgraded machetes give you additional gold for killing jungle camps and this gold advantage can make a huge difference. This also sets you up to gank a lane at level 3 with full health rather than being close to dead after clearing the camps. I recommend you try it out in custom games for the champs you jungle most. Pick a specific goal (i.e. level 4, 5 or 6) and experiment with the fastest way to achieve that goal and keep track of how much gold you have when you reach that goal.
I usually buy boots after my jungle item is fully upgraded (i.e. cinderhulk, warrior, magus complete.) Typically you don't need the extra movement speed before that as long as you have good map awareness. If you are unsure about your build order check out probuilds.net to see what the pro junglers do.
Depends on the champ. I tend to prefer buying wards over pots but if I have the extra gold I'll pick one or two pots up.
An early green or pink can help your laners just as much as a gank because it can prevent them from dying. You can only gank one lane at a time but if you help your allies ward then you can help two lanes simultaneously. I also love picking up sightstones on junglers and switching over to sweeping lens so I can deny the enemy team's ward coverage while maximizing my team's vision.
If I think I can get a kill or save an ally I will always stop whatever jungle camp I'm doing. Plus, the assist is worth way more gold than gromp.
Ganking with no items is definitely possible, but usually only if the enemy is pushing the lane. When and how to gank is a really hard question to answer in concrete terms. Its much more an art than science. Junglers with gap closers and some form of CC have a much easier time doing this.

Ranged champs typically don't do well in the jungle. Nid is the only one I can think of that does it well. If you like ap champs Evelynn and Diana are also great choices in the jungle.

I am by no means a jungle god but I have gotten a lot of compliments on my jungling from high level players (plat and diamond.) I do instructional replays at least once a week to help improve my play and my teammates play. Please let me know if they help you as well.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2EZm50wNGmfJal7IHM_b8Q

http://www.twitch.tv/randomoniumlol/profile/past_broadcasts