When I gank your lane....

DrProfVibeCheck·Jun 9, 2015·13 votes·2,533 views

Please, for the love of god, go in with me. Unless I'm tower diving a full health enemy or something else blatantly stupid, just help me. The reason I'm ganking your lane is to set YOU forward, and in the process, maybe me. The point of a gank is to make a 1v1 situation into a 2v1 situation, but if I don't get back up, it's basically a 1v1. Some junglers can handle that ez pz, but I'm speaking for the times that arent so pz.

But if you don't go in, and I die in the process, at least think of one thing before you start flaming my ass: did he ping or say he was ganking? If the answer is no, then go ahead, light that fire (but Id suggest you don't). If the answer is yes, then apologize or something. You shoulda been more aware and taken your head outta your ass. The Jungler does NOT HAVE to gank your lane. It helps if he does, but there are 2 other lanes to attend to. Also, the poor guy has to ward and control objectives and shit. For real, one smite could make or break a game. That's a lot of pressure for ANYONE.

Long story short, don't be that asshole who doesn't help your jungler out when he ganks. Don't flame him either if shit goes wrong, because its probably your fault (unless the Jungler didnt ping or REALLY fucked up. Look above for an example). He doesn't need to gank your lane, he has other jobs.

28 Comments

The WhamboozlerJun 9, 201513 votes

I didn't read any of your post, I just wanted to say that your name is amazing and I hope you main Taric.

DrProfVibeCheckJun 9, 20155 votes

I do play him sometimes, but no, sadly, I don't main Taric. His gems are just TOO outrageous for me. Thx for the compliment lol.

B1naryB0tJun 9, 20151 votes

Fun thing, do Taric jungle. It's great

TheThundersRoarJun 9, 20152 votes

[deleted]

DrProfVibeCheckJun 9, 20151 votes

Its better most of the time for a Jungler to start the gank. Usually, they might have good CC (j4's EQ combo, Hecarim's E , Vi's Ult, etc) and will stick the enemy in place.

If the laner starts going aggressive, it may alert the opponent of a gank. For example, if a Renekton is winning a lane by a landslide, and his 0 and 3 opponent starts to go in, of course he'll suspect something.

Also, if the laner initiates, there's more a chance the laner with lose more health. And of the laner loses enough health, he may need to go recall. In a gank, your objective is to drive an opponent out of lane or waste his resources (I.e a flash). If you need to back after an ally ganks you, you don't get as much a lead.

I hope this clears up some of my reasoning behind my rant.

BluePolarizerJun 9, 20151 votes

I tell the laner to go in first. I can't waste my time standing around waiting for a gank opportunity, there are other lanes to attend to and farming to do. If they're 0-3 to a Renekton I'm not ganking for them unless I can 1 shot Renekton.

DrProfVibeCheckJun 9, 20151 votes

So, you're telling the seriously behind laner to attack a seriously ahead opponent just enough for you to swoop in to take the kill? That doesn't seem right.

As I said before, the health issue. The laner may lose a shit ton of health before you finally come in. One of the reasons people ask for ganks is to try and gain the upper hand in lane. If the lamer just does all the work and you swoop in and take the kill, all the laner gains is maybe 150 or less gold, because now he (or she) has to back to regain health and not get any more cs. Sure, the person could TP back to lane, but that TP coulda been used for other things.

Does this clear things up?

BluePolarizerJun 9, 20151 votes

that is not it. I need a commitment from the laner to go in. Do you know what happens if the jungler is 1v1ing the enemy laner, your laner doesn't react and you have to back or even get killed?

The enemy jungler now has full control of the map for the next 30 seconds.
You are now behind the enemy jungler, meaning in future ganks, it is harder to countergank.
You are behind in levels which means that the enemy jungler can outsmite you.
Enemy laner is now fed, or is confident that your laner is scared of him, so whenever you aren't there, he's going to be diving your laner and putting him even further behind.
Your laner has already demonstrated a lack of judgment, which isn't a good sign for mid or late game. That means that he is unwilling to listen to the team.

I do not ask that the laner "does all the work" and I swoop in to last hit. But I need a commitment from the laner. They need to show some effort that they are willing to help themselves get back in the game. If they are not willing to help themselves by committing to a gank, nobody can help them.

And if the enemy is Renekton, up 3-0? He can 2v1 unless I am also ahead. Unless he is already low and playing dumb, I'm going to just ignore that lane because Renekton falls off anyways and can't solo carry, and ask the laner to farm passively and do not lose even further. If he's getting dived, I tell him to abandon lane and group to help me get the other lanes ahead, then we'll help him later.

Who told you that you had to stay in lane when getting stomped? When I play top, and I'm getting stomped, I just group. It is useless to just sit under turret, getting zero CS and being dived + losing turret anyways, when I could be using my base damage and EXP advantage over bot to make plays. Then I group with my allies to take back top and kill the enemy top 3v1. Of course this requires abandoning the mentality of "must solo carry" and instead adapt the mentality of "help the team".

Skyfyre123Jun 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

that is not it. I need a commitment from the laner to go in. Do you know what happens if the jungler is 1v1ing the enemy laner, your laner doesn't react and you have to back or even get killed?

The enemy jungler now has full control of the map for the next 30 seconds.

You are now behind the enemy jungler, meaning in future ganks, it is harder to countergank.

You are behind in levels which means that the enemy jungler can outsmite you.

Enemy laner is now fed, or is confident that your laner is scared of him, so whenever you aren't there, he's going to be diving your laner and putting him even further behind.

Your laner has already demonstrated a lack of judgment, which isn't a good sign for mid or late game. That means that he is unwilling to listen to the team.

I do not ask that the laner "does all the work" and I swoop in to last hit. But I need a commitment from the laner. They need to show some effort that they are willing to help themselves get back in the game. If they are not willing to help themselves by committing to a gank, nobody can help them.

And if the enemy is Renekton, up 3-0? He can 2v1 unless I am also ahead. Unless he is already low and playing dumb, I'm going to just ignore that lane because Renekton falls off anyways and can't solo carry, and ask the laner to farm passively and do not lose even further. If he's getting dived, I tell him to abandon lane and group to help me get the other lanes ahead, then we'll help him later.

Who told you that you had to stay in lane when getting stomped? When I play top, and I'm getting stomped, I just group. It is useless to just sit under turret, getting zero CS and being dived + losing turret anyways, when I could be using my base damage and EXP advantage over bot to make plays. Then I group with my allies to take back top and kill the enemy top 3v1. Of course this requires abandoning the mentality of "must solo carry" and instead adapt the mentality of "help the team".

Yeah I always try to help my jungler when they get in a tight spot with the enemy jungler or whoever unless I'm low on health to the point that the enemy can get an easy double kill, because I know if I help them they will be able to help me too. Kinda just my general way of thinking for everyone on my team, not just my jungler.

DrProfVibeCheckJun 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

that is not it. I need a commitment from the laner to go in. Do you know what happens if the jungler is 1v1ing the enemy laner, your laner doesn't react and you have to back or even get killed?

The enemy jungler now has full control of the map for the next 30 seconds.

You are now behind the enemy jungler, meaning in future ganks, it is harder to countergank.

You are behind in levels which means that the enemy jungler can outsmite you.

Enemy laner is now fed, or is confident that your laner is scared of him, so whenever you aren't there, he's going to be diving your laner and putting him even further behind.

Your laner has already demonstrated a lack of judgment, which isn't a good sign for mid or late game. That means that he is unwilling to listen to the team.

That's actually kinda the point I try to make in my post. That if you don't go in when the jungler ganks, you screw him over.

Also, the renekton part was just an example. Because usually when there is an enemy renekton, I have to gank top a lot.

Another thing, my rant is from the point of view of the jungler. No where do mention that you have to stay in lane and "solo carry". Some people just wanna do that shit, and in the process, ask for ganks that they may not even help in.

BluePolarizerJun 10, 20151 votes

I leave the guy against Renekton to his devices, because Renekton can't solo carry. I've seen it too many times: Renekton goes godlike against the enemy top, then falls off so hard late game that he might as well have fed 0-5, because then he at least won't give up so much shutdown gold to enemy hard carries.

Literally all the top laner has to do, is not die more than once for 10 minutes and Renekton is useless.

DrProfVibeCheckJun 10, 20151 votes

That is true, but I just said renekton because he usually bullies a lane hard. In my example, you can literally plug in ANY champion and it would still work. Renekton does not have to be the focus lol, so I don't get why you have a space in your post SPECIFICALLY for him, even though I don't mean SPECIFICALLY him.

BluePolarizerJun 10, 20151 votes

its the same principle: you have to think about what the laner will do if left unchecked. If all he will do is stomp your own laner, then just let it happen and get your carry lanes up and running. Otherwise, if that champ can wipe your whole team, then you have to not only gank but gank enough to turn the tides, perhaps even along with mid.

Doesn't apply for only Renekton but applies for any lane bully.

Skyfyre123Jun 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Glitterfart,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=EAmdEXJH,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-06-09T08:35:16.583+0000)

Its better most of the time for a Jungler to start the gank. Usually, they might have good CC (j4's EQ combo, Hecarim's E , Vi's Ult, etc) and will stick the enemy in place.

If the laner starts going aggressive, it may alert the opponent of a gank. For example, if a Renekton is winning a lane by a landslide, and his 0 and 3 opponent starts to go in, of course he'll suspect something.

Also, if the laner initiates, there's more a chance the laner with lose more health. And of the laner loses enough health, he may need to go recall. In a gank, your objective is to drive an opponent out of lane or waste his resources (I.e a flash). If you need to back after an ally ganks you, you don't get as much a lead.

I hope this clears up some of my reasoning behind my rant.

 Completely understandable.  As a top lane main, I play as if I'm not expecting a gank and focus on outfarming them as much as I can and when I do get a gank, I always try to followup on it as best as I can if not to kill the enemy at least force him to back or recall allowing me to farm and get ahead of them gold-wise. 
  Also I sorta see this a bit more often than I would like to see  when the jungler ganks your lane when the enemy is close to their turret and my minion wave isn't even pushed past the river point.  Don't expect me to follow you in when you tower dive especially without minions taking turret aggro.  The other day our rammus tower dove someone mid and got killed and started yelling at me for not helping him.  Like dude really.  I was oom too when he ganked.  If I don't call oom which I mostly do whenever I am, you can check the champ icon boxes on the side of the screen before you gank their lane because they show you how much health and mana they have left before you even see them on the screen.  I'm always happy when I get extra help with my lane from the jungler, but don't be dumb about ganking and feeding the enemy to make my laning experience harder.  In the end I usually just ping when I need a gank when I know I can followup on the initiate or just need to back and someone to be there to cover my lane. 
   Of course in the end, I can't say anything bad about junglers too much because I can't jungle to save my life (my weakest role)  and I appreciate the ones that do it outstandingly well

DrProfVibeCheckJun 10, 20151 votes

I did say that you don't have to follow in if the jungler is doing something "blatantly stupid" lol.

Also, jungle is very fun. That's why I main it. It allows you to get a better understanding on how the game works by just observing the map. Another thing I like about jungle is that you don't have the mentality of "I have to out farm my opponent or else I will fall off and he will kill me and I will lose tower" all the time. Sure, you have to be ahead of the enemy jungler, but at least he's not in your face and stuff.

IcyPepperJun 9, 20152 votes

I've had people just stand there. I ping in advance I'm ganking, ping for help when they're not helping, and then I smite blue when they think it's okay to take it.

Don't be that guy. If you're top and pull that shit (seriously, there is no excuse. Yes, I ask people if they were minion blocked, but if they seriously ignored the gank they asked for...), then I'm going to snowball more intelligent lanes. If you're mid, say goodbye to blue because that's in my jungle and you don't gank my jungle for me. If you're bot... well, as long as you can right click towers then I'll try to keep your lane opponents from snowballing. But the support is coming with me.

redniwediSJun 9, 20152 votes

So long as you don't gank while there's a large minion wave I'll always follow you up (unless I'm in some heavy tunnel vision, in which case I will apologize after). Experience is far too precious a resource for a top laner to spend just for one kill.

FiendishNinjaJun 9, 20151 votes

I agree with you. But sometimes its not just the laners fault. Sometimes there is literally nothing the laner can do and it doesn't matter how much the jungler is pinging or saying go in or how much the jungler is going in.

For instance if the top laner is Mundo, and the jungler nunu is pinging go in go in and typing it in chat and everything, there's not much mundo can do to go in besides walk towards the enemy and throw cleavers through a minion line.

Or something else that happens more often than I would expect is on red side. The jungler will invade the enemy blue then walk top while I'm 700 units back from the enemy (as pretty much any toplaner) and then walk up the river and start pinging when he hits the river bush. Yes i might be maokai but my snare range isn't infinite.

I think the best example is bot lane however. When the ADC is farming CS happily close to (but not under) own tower and the support is doing a solid job zoning the opponents, then the jungler just comes nito the river bush and goes in then flames the adc for not helping. Like sorry but not much i can do except run towards them lol

Not saying this is all junglers, just like you're not saying this is all laners. Its why communication is so key. like type in chat (invading blue then heading top) then if the top laner is Mao and has no mana he can say (oom). or (grabbing crab then heading bot) so bot lane can be ready to go.

DrProfVibeCheckJun 10, 20153 votes

I try to speak for the level headed junglers out there. If the laner just walks forward when I gank, that could be enough to burn a flash, and I'm OK with that.

MegaShroom9000Jun 9, 20151 votes

If the lanner is squishy, it is usually not reasonable for the lanner to initiate. Sometimes the jungller needs to soak the first enemy combos so the squishy can all in.

AbsoluteSadmanJun 9, 20151 votes

I go in to gank irelia

2/1 riven farms at turret after 3 pings

Yells at me for dying

Afk's

I cry

Quinary DunkageJun 10, 20151 votes

I mean I'm certainly not to complain about a jungler wanting to set me ahead, but if there's a kills' worth of gold dying to my turret that I have to opt out of for the chance of a kill's worth of gold, there's a significant chance I'll ping you back. Don't be one of those junglers who chastises me for giving up free gold when to go in with you, I'd have to give up free gold and xp. There is a right and a wrong time to gank a lane. Waiting 10 seconds for your laner to not give up their lead before they even gain one is often times necessary.

DrProfVibeCheckJun 10, 20151 votes

I don't want to insult you, but I had a hard time understanding what you wrote. Maybe I'm just stupid. Here are the points I can get from it:

-If there is a big CS wave dieing to my tower, I'd probably want to clear that out to get the gold and exp before helping you gank.

-If you DO gank while I clear the wave, I cant help you that much.

-If you start yelling at me, you're an asshole who should a timed your ganks better.

Are these the points you try to get across? If not, please correct me.

IndianHippieJun 10, 20151 votes

Yes. However the only time I don't go in with jungler is because I was going b and did not see him come. I try to check the mini map as much as possible but please also ping when you are coming.

LuggJun 10, 20151 votes

Please, for the love of god, before you gank my lane, check to make sure I have mana and ping before you go in. If I don't have mana, I can't help you and if you don't ping, I may be busy dodging skill shots and trying to farm and may not even know you are ganking.

Don't get me wrong, I love when my jungler ganks my lane, but it's a two way street.

DrProfVibeCheckJun 10, 20151 votes

My rant was directed towards the situation when a jungler goes in even though the laner has full resources. Of course there are stupid junglers doing stupid things, but I want to vent for the smart junglers who TRY to do smart things, butthe laner does a stupid thing that doesn't help out. Get what I'm saying?

LuggJun 10, 20151 votes

I get it. I'm not aiming the post at you. It's just that there are as many stupid junglers as there are stupid laners. Honestly, when I am mid, I almost don't want the jungler to gank. The only time I ever seem to lose lane mid is when my jungler feeds the other mid.