How do you keep your lead and avoid throwing?

BlueVestGuy·7/7/2015, 7:34:30 PM·1 votes·5,572 views

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1878871909/221552275 I'll take this game as an example. We had more turrets and more kills (so more gold) than them most of the game. Heck, Maokai was 4/1 by 10 minutes against Irelia - tristana was 2/0 while jinx had only died - their 2 most threatning champions were behind, it shouldn't've been difficult, right? The only thing they did that we didn't was getting drags. Our jungler didn't seem to care much about them, since he kept getting jungle creeps while I pinged like mad at the dragon, knowing they were getting it. Only their mid was ahead of ours, while the junglers were moreso even - wu had more objective control and slightly better ganks than gragas, but that's about it. I do believe we also had Superior teamfight, with maokai and gragas... Anyway. What could we have done to keep our advantage?

13 Comments

Teachan7/7/2015, 8:19:35 PM3 votes

The thing is, they have 3 champs that scale obscenely well. No matter how 'behind' Irelia is, she just farms, completes a tf/mercs/randuins and dives you. Kog and jing are the hyper scaling carries and Leona, wuk gave them the initiation and cc to demolish any team fight.

Granted, jinx didn't do so well, looks like kog rekt face with 50k total damage done to champions. What would have had to happen was your front line (diana/mao/gragas) getting a miracle play and killing kog before he pokes your team. Their simply put wasn't enough initiation on your team to get to kog, and they had the protect the kog comp down.

This was a win in the early/mid game asap or have to pull off a perfect teamfight in late game. Seems like neither happened. :(

Also, just a pet peeve of mind, always upgrade to item 3341 when you get item 2049 . :D

Serevas7/7/2015, 8:10:14 PM2 votes

Here's the problem. Their team comp was focused on late game. Kog'maw, Jinx are both hyper carries, and Irelia gets super scary late game, as you saw apparently.

Tristana has massive tower taking ability and is in a sense a hyper carry, but her window of opportunity is far smaller than Jinx's.

You should have built an Aegis because Kog'maw was bound to turn on before long, and half of Irelia's damage is magic damage anyway.

Gragas build damage instead of tank, which granted you had two tanks already, but if he was going to go damage he should have picked a bruiser or some sort of assassin or something. Damage Gragas is sub par at best, and gets outscaled hard. He also did the classic build damage continuously when behind thing that I hate so very much, in fact unless you count Rod of Ages as a tank item, he didn't even look at tank stats until 30 minutes into the game, not to mention he was exceptionally late in building his RoA, at 22 min he should have just gone righteous glory, because the item wouldn't even be full strength until 32 minutes into the game, which is massively late for an item like that.

Your jungler needed substantially better objective control. The enemy team went 5/5 for dragons, and grabbed a baron as well.

That Kog'maw either played exceptionaly well, or you guys were focusing the wrong champions. Kog'maw is immobile and didn't even take Ghost for the extra defensive summoner spell. You guys basically needed to kill that Kog'maw at the beginning of every fight you had or you were going to lose them, and it looks like that's what happened. Kog'maw got his power spikes and butchered you guys in team fights. He did 51k damage to champions in that game, which is tremendous.

Their team basically outscaled you through late game focus and objective advantages because remember that 6% from dragon builds up it's value in stats very quickly.

It looked like you could have done a better job as a team for peeling for Tristana, she was your only real carry as your Diana never took off.

No offense meant, but your runes and masteries were a complete mess for support. You would have been far better served with different boots, mobility boots are for roaming as a support, and Braum has a rather poor roam.

In the late game the enemy team used their advantages better, and after every fight they at the very least seemed to get a tower, several times taking even more than that. Adding in once more that Kog'maw was a complete monster.

ZergReap7/7/2015, 8:00:18 PM2 votes

Don't think of it as avoiding throwing, think of it as using a lead to end the game. Kills in the first 20 minutes simply make it easier to kill them later so you can kill the inhibs and eventually end. Sometimes it's better to be spread out fighting 2v2s or 3v3s on different parts of the map to break the inhibitor turret barrier. Other times, based on the game, you might want to ARAM mid ASAP. Don't look at the scoreboard, look at the items because kills can be misleading. In terms of the Trist vs Jinx, Jinx scales better so that might mean she is stronger than Trist at the 30-40 minute mark even though she has less gold. Meanwhile, all Irelia needs to kill trist is a Tri force and maybe some armor.

Lane phase means nothing if one team is working together and the other isn't. In general a good way to play when ahead is move the wards up deep into the enemy jungle so that they are trapped in their base. Make it so their adc is afraid to get red buff because there is likely an Annie waiting with Tibbers. If you get an ace or a good team fight where you can choose between an inhibitor and baron, I always say go for the inhibitor. With an inhib down you can usually get baron or dragon for free. Everyone has seen super minions take down two nexus turrets because their whole team was fighting at dragon. It also means if you lose a team fight they might not be able to get an inhib in return because all the lanes are pushed against them. If you get baron first make sure your team doesn't scatter and go farming the jungle. Pick the fights or sit at their turret until it goes down.

Gorgannan7/8/2015, 1:42:14 AM1 votes

Yeah, they outscaled you. You need to end earlier. You dragged out the game quite a long time, while getting no meaningful objectives. I notice they got 4 dragons before they pulled ahead, and your team had none. Your jungler, I'm guessing, would gank a lane and leave right after. You don't want to go pushing towers too soon, but he should have helped for some meaningful objectives. While you had the infinitely scaling Trist, they also had AP Kog who is easy and very strong at all ins or poking. You had Diana, but their team is what I like to call a triple threat team. It's where they have too many high priority targets with insane damage for one assassin to deal with. Unfortunately, that's all you had, and then too many tanks. Honestly, having a carry top and not a tank top would have done wonders. If you had a Darius (I know, he's supposed to be bad) would have been able to do wonders in conjunction with Gragas' ult. Both Jinx and Kog would be hard pressed to get away.

Overall, as Meg already said, Kog broke your tanks. AP Kog can do up to 10% bonus Hp per auto or something obscene like that, and you had 3 tanks with little damage.

EDIT: Another thing. There's such thing as TOO tanky. Your Maokai may have been hard to kill, but they would have no real reason to focus him anyway. If he built even one AP item he could probably full combo Jinx to death.

EDIT EDIT: If you guys were grouping up, which with a team like that I'll bet you were, 3 Frozen Hearts is like, 3k in wasted gold.

EndlessSorcerer7/8/2015, 4:59:04 PM1 votes

Ward. Everything.

Your team had three un-upgraded totems. Even if Greater Stealth Totem is disabled at the moment, Greater Vision Totem is still a viable option. The enemy team had 4 upgraded trinkets, which have them a large advantage in vision control.

Also, you didn't get Sweeping Lens or Oracle's Lens after finishing your Sightstone. Once you have Sightstone, there isn't really a reason to keep the Warding Totem (unless you want Greater Vision Totem as well).

Jinx and Kog'maw are immobile and have trouble peeling for themselves against many champions, so if you could manage to control vision you may have been able to catch them rotating between lanes. If you managed to kill either one of them before a fight, then you could use your advantage to crush them.

Also, Gragas' build was pretty bad. Sure, your team already had a couple tanks, but there are better ways to get damage on Gragas than building AP. Primarily, Cinderhulk, Thornmail, Iceborn Gauntlet and/or CDR allow him to hit very hard, very often while remaining durable. Liandry's Torment is also a good option.

Your team composition may have also been an issue. It can be hard enough to siege against AP Kog'maw in the first place, but your team was very reliant on hard-engaging teamfights while they have plenty of disengage/counter-engage to protect their damage dealers.

Also, while Frozen Heart was a good item against their team (since they were primarily physical damage and many of them relied on autoattacks), purchasing three of them may have been a bit overkill.

Drunk Rummate7/8/2015, 5:01:42 PM1 votes

Group and kill inner towers. Once you've done this, you keep lanes shoved, ward in the enemy jungle, and take objectives on cooldown. Killing inhibitor towers is a privilege, not a right.

People who group as 5 to push an inhib tower and assume it's their right to kill the tower because they're ahead in gold end up stalling the game out and throwing their advantage since they're sharing gold and experience and they aren't increasing their lead.

Eventually that lead evens out as gold counts get bigger, so if you aren't making your gold advantage bigger by spreading out and farming the map properly then you aren't going to keep your lead.

Your chance to win the game comes when the enemy team tries to contest one of those major objectives (5th dragon or baron). You teamfight them, and ace them because you're ahead, and now you have the ability to open up their base.

BlackHorizon387/7/2015, 8:12:56 PM1 votes

Focus objectives.

I find all to often when I am ahead and my team throws that typically they start throwing because they are kill hungry and want to get more of a 'lead'...this is a wrong strategy.

I had a game where 20 minutes in we thought they would surrender, we had a fed yi, yas and I as mid lane was pretty fed. yas and yi continued to tower dive for kills they couldn't get. They would chase the enemy udyr for HOURS 'cue chicken runnin music* because he was an 'easy kill' as they called it.

Kills are used to get gold early game, Once you get that early lead, have your entire team come mid to push the first tower down real quick, then have them all leave to their lanes to hold. Next time you beat your enemy mid, call the jungler to your lane to push out that second turret.

Turrets get wins. Not kills. In the end it doesn't matter how fed you are, its how your team can communicate and you and all of your team members might be able to win their and your lane. But if you cant come together and work well in a team fight, the enemy team is going to win every time.

Dragonss... Now...when you have a 21/11 lead over the enemy the dragon (in my opinion) isn't important... Let the enemy get the dragon...it only helps them push (right???what exactly are dragon bufs and what do they do?) because at that point with your 11 kill lead, you could easily single the enemy out (dunk/1v4) wiht a little bit of vision before they even get a chance to push.

Visions... vision is important. if you are support you need to buy a sightstone. It WILL help. because you will know where your enemies are. YOu can spot a 200hp lb recalling in their tri bush...boom...easy shut down gold, why? because your sup happened to put a ward there. its easy. sometimes as support I will go out to the map ONLY to place wards, recall, then put out 5 more wards on the map (7 if you buy 2 pinks too)

ward placement: theres a tutorial i watched and i did an experiment one game and it actually worked. Do you know the difference between pinks and greens? (wards?) if not look it up or ask and Ill tell you but im assuming you know. greens will always technically cost you about 25 gold, pinks, if left out on the map for longer then 4 min, start essentially 'earning' you gold. (had you placed a green instead of a pink you would be losing gold) ( i learned this all from a youtube tutorial on warding. I'm sure youcould look it up yourself because Im not suure 1% how to explain it) BUT...if you put a pink ward in the enemy bush that is behind the wolves on blue side. (the pathway that leads to baron/dragon closest to mid lane) AND then you put a ward in the bush BEHIND red....you should have vision there for a decent amount of time.

I actually did this one game at about 6 minutes in. and the ward by wolves (behind blue) was gone in 20 seconds. (which means that their jungler was JUST there.) and the ward that i placed after that (behind their red) stayed there till about 30 minutes into the game...that is 24 minutes of CONSTANT VISION ON THEIR RED.

the reason's that these bushes are ideal is that alot of time's they're never checked. no-body ever erally walks through them unless they go to hide or are actually checking which...when you jung do you check for pink wards in your jungle? because I dont...lol.

EARLY BARONSSS!!

If you win an early team fight (lvl 13/14 ish) an dyou have time to baron (and you have a lead that makes you strong) GO GET BARON. This is risky, always...because baron is a hard mf to kill...but if you can get him and KEEP him you'll have another MAJOR winning advantage.

Lastly...JUST STAY ALIVE AND COOPERATE WITH YOUR TEAM.

the WORST THING for you to do is run around the lanes trying to farm/get kills/push. You should have 1 person top or bot splitting (farming) and the rest should be running TOGETHER (later game lvl 15-16). always have a plan. don't just run around until your team is mid. Make a strategy first.

the jungle (if hes fed enough) can wonder on their own but the mid, adc and sup should go mid. That way you're forcing then to defend their mmid AND their top/bot. (if they don't do both they'll lose one or the other) and if your splitter is able to kill the defender top or bot. boom. you win that turret. or at least on turret becAuse others fromm mid are going to have to defend.

If all of your team mates are scattered abuot the map..son'a top warding, adc jinx is bot farming, mid is mid defending, and jungle is jungling still, lets say top is buying...where does that put your team in team work? the enemy is probably grouping mid ready to push throug hyour first tower while your team is doinggggg???? what?...nothing...

so just amke sure that you don't lose yourself in game. stay with your team. i fyou need some farm then farm while the enemy is down. idk just throwing idea's out there.

Frigid Ice Storm7/8/2015, 1:07:52 AM1 votes

Buy a ward.